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Jack O'Neill/ Sam Carter - Part of a team, not a ship

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    Originally posted by luthienberen
    Neither do I. Nor would I belive them, as I said, D may use scientific mehtodoly but it doesn't make himself a scientist.

    As for the debators ... unless they hold a BSc and/or Masters in a science, PhD in a science I wouldn't agree. But that is just me.
    I have both... BSc and Masters (was originally going to get PhD as well, but decided against it... might go back and do so eventually, though) in Geology. I don't know if that is considered a science either, or if I am still not considered a scientist?

    I suppose I can no longer refer to Daniel and Sam as "The Science Twins..." meaning I'd have to junk my whole website or change it to "Carter the Scientist and Daniel the ... um..... Artist" ?

    Sorry if I sound sarcastic or anything... it's not my intention. I was just always made to believe that it was a science (and I didn't even know Daniel had a Bachelor of Arts degree). I didn't think I'd get thrown into this debate, because, frankly, I didn't even know it existed. I guess that makes me hugely ignorant. I apologize and hope you don't think any less of me now...

    ----

    Anyway back on topic... I agree that Sam and Jack are too opposite each other... and I have heard that "opposites attract"... but that is not always true.

    Comment


      Originally posted by luthienberen
      I have the horrible sneaking suspicion that is one of the reasons why they kept J and Sara separate. But have you noticed how, whenever J has been paired off with any women in SG-1 bar C he has great chemistry? A 100 hundred days for example ~ Laira wasn't it? Yet the minute RDA and AT are told to do ship they couldn't do romance if it bit them on the ass? No disrepect to the actor and actrees - but the mintue they get in character and play 'romance' between J and C there is nada?

      I really wish they kept J and Sara together, and left shipping to fanfiction, where the AU lives in glory JessM!
      I have noticed that. You're right, her name was Laira. I thought they had very nice chemistry. Who were the others... there was Kerry, and I found their chemistry very believable. I don't see any romantic chemistry between Jack and Sam...never could, and never will.

      I'm probably paranoid or something, but I found it a bit interesting how they were situated at the end of
      Spoiler:
      both Threads and Moebius Part 2, with her and Jack sitting on the dock together. Then you have Daniel and Teal'c finally show up, grab some chairs and slowly head over towards them. Attempt to appease the S/J shippers?


      I couldn't agree more! I've kept J and Sara together in my AU fic.

      Comment


        Originally posted by luthienberen
        I didn't think D as a jerk until the first ep of S9 then his behaviour convinced me.
        It's funny, but I wasn't too thrilled with his behavior, either, and I blamed it mostly on Vala, or the way he acts when Vala is around (almost seemed like she brought out the worst in him... or something to that effect). I did think that he didn't seem very "Daniel" in the first or so scene, either... the scene where
        Spoiler:
        Mitchell goes to him and tells him how he wants to get the team back. Daniel was packing to go off to Atlantis and he just seemed very glib to me. I guess it can be argued that he really wanted to go and just didn't care, but... still didn't sit quite right with me.

        Comment


          Originally posted by luthienberen
          Thank you! So what if I hate Carter? Vala? Nothing is worng with that! I really wish people would remember that it is a TV show! I couldn't care less if people love Carter or any other character, but when it gets to the point where you cannot criticise said character or you MUST like/dislike this ship etc it makes me sick.

          These days if you don't like so and so or S9 you are not a 'true' fan. Peh. So what about those new fans who don't like earlier seasons? How are they 'true' fans but not I who likes earlier seasons and not later ones?

          Fandom is getting really bad these days. That is why protected threads such as this one are essential.
          Very well said. I agree... it is just a TV show. I think that people can get too wrapped up in it and too obsessed that it can make them batty, almost like they're thinking of the characters as their own real-life friends or family. When that happens, it's time to step back for a little while.

          Everyone is entitled to their opinions. Whether or not you like/dislike a certain character, pairing or no pairing, if you like certain seasons and dislike others, like/dislike a character a certain way, it should not matter so much to other people. For the most part, you're not going to change anyone's opinons, so it's best to live and let live, in a way. Unfortunately a lot of people don't think that way, and they find it necessary to bash other people (mostly, IMO, due to the fact that the other person's opinon makes them feel threatened). I'm not talking about anyone in particular here or anything, mind you, just people in general.

          I will admit it's great to have threads like this where like-minded people can commiserate around something that interests them.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Dani347
            I agree. If I was a shipper, I would feel cheated. Once they brought it to light, they had to annoy the shippers by never following through, and annoy the nonshippers by making them go through all the teasing and hints, until some non shippers felt that they should just make them go ahead and do it and just get the darn thing over with. Or, make some (me) be so adamantly against ship, that the idea of even the smallest scene implying Jack and Sam are together, even if it's never mentioned again is completely disgusting to me. I don't know if I would feel that way if they hadn't dangled that carrot for so long. And, I can't speak for shippers (or I shouldn't for anyone, really) but I think if I was a shipper, I would feel that anything they could do would be too little too late, and not worth it.
            Good points. That is why I am a shipper and I would not like to see my ship onscreen. I don't think it would be handled well, after what they've done with S/J. It makes me think that the S/J stuff would set a precedent for how they'd treat other ships if they chose to bring them to light (which makes me wonder if they do a similar thing to Daniel and Vala - though I hope not - but that's a different topic I suppose).

            Comment


              Originally posted by luthienberen
              Very nice post! Good points, agree with most of what you said. As for S10, I am worried by the rumours, so, while I do not intend to watch the Season I was thinking of dropping in just to see whether having an RDA who wants to be there makes a difference as it used to. However, as we both know, TPTB have utlised RDA's minimum time on ship before so I think we ought to be wary. Don't get your hopes up too much and therefore, you may not be too disappionted - and may acutally be impressed.

              Glad to know I'm not the only one not blaming RDA, but TPTB. Threads? *shudder* Deconstruction of characters and plot left, right and centre. Nice to hear from you grasshopper64!
              Very recently I read somewhere that RDA and AT don't want to see any of the ship. AT didn't want Sam to be "the girl" mooning over "the guy", and RDA said he'd rather see them as friends or colleagues. It's nice to know that they feel this way, but I hope TPTB aren't going to try to steer it in that direction, anyway (despite the fact that they said there weren't plans to ship ANYone at all - including Sam - this season).

              Comment


                Originally posted by kalicokatt
                As for leaving the J/S ship alone this season, I, too, dread it popping up again. I was so happy when RDA left the show. Not because I don't like RDA, but because I've come to feel that the Jack he was portraying was some distorted clone of the "real" Jack. I also hope they don't drag the ship from SG-1 into Atlantis. With both RDA and Amanda Tapping being in episodes of Atlantis, well, it just makes my skin crawl to think that they might taint that show as well. I'm not that crazy about it in the first place, so if they mess it up with ship, in any form, I'm probably gone from there. Especially, if they move the J/S ship over to it.

                Now, I've broken my lurkdom twice in one day. That might be a record.
                It's nice to see you posting here. I hope we don't see any of the ship. As far as dragging it to Atlantis, I read spoilers for two of those episodes...

                Spoiler:
                AT will be appearing in "McKay and Mrs. Miller". She'll make a brief appearance in this episode that sort of revolves around McKay and his sister. RDA is not supposed to be in this one. Then RDA is appearing in some other episode... I can't remember the name of it, but it was just announced. AT is not in this one.


                So it appears that they won't be in the same episode for at least two episodes. I find that promising, unless they somehow sneak in dialogue for Jack or Sam that makes it seem like one of them is "dating" (or something else) the other.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Easter Lily
                  The early Daniel and the early Sam may have had a chance at something like this because they shared some obvious common interests. They were both inquirers. The same with Martouf and even Narim. But Jack, his wisecracks aren't enough, I don't think, to keep things moving along.
                  I agree very much with you, Easter Lily. Nice to have you on the thread.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by luthienberen
                    Early Carter and early Daniel? I admit I never saw anything beyond friendship. Though they do have more in common, I think Daniel finds Carter's unwillingness to believe in concerns outside her narrow box annoying. Evidence in 'Thor's Hammer' and 'Maternal Insitnct' particulary. But at least they would have had a better chance of a relationship, but not until Daniel recovered from his wife and fulfilled his path with the son of his wife.
                    While it's true that Daniel has the ability to "think outside the box" and Sam basically doesn't, I still think they have a lot more in common than Jack and Sam do. I liked the way they'd put their heads together to try and solve problems, like in Thor's Chariot and Message in a Bottle. And I liked how they showed similar curiosity over the crystal in Cold Lazarus (and I enjoyed seeing them work together in that episode). They were also the two who wished to communicate with the computer entity in Entity, while Jack didn't.

                    I do agree that they wouldn't have been able to have a relationship until Daniel's grief over his wife subsided.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by JessM
                      I'm probably paranoid or something, but I found it a bit interesting how they were situated at the end of
                      Spoiler:
                      both Threads and Moebius Part 2, with her and Jack sitting on the dock together. Then you have Daniel and Teal'c finally show up, grab some chairs and slowly head over towards them. Attempt to appease the S/J shippers?
                      No, he'd just taken her there to have that conversation with her - the one which goes
                      Spoiler:
                      "I know we've been dancing round each other for years but don't you think it's about time we acted like real adults and admit that it's going nowhere. Why don't we just get on with life without all the cow eyes and uncomfortable silences?" And then their mates come out from where they've been getting the beer and the four of them sit on the dock and act like a team again.


                      FF
                      sigpic

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by JessM
                        Right, and I find that sad as well.

                        Sorry if I offended you or anything, but when I went to college (I'm in the States), archaeology and anthropology basically fell under the umbrella of Science, at least where I went to school. At my university, we had a College of Medicine, and a College of Arts and Sciences. Arts were basically the Fine Arts (music, painting/sketch/other studio art, theater, and dance), while Sciences were everything else, including things like Psychology, Anthropology, Philosophy, Political Science, Biology, Chemistry, etc. I have friends who received Bachelor of Arts in Earth and Space Sciences, but they went on to obtain a Master of Science (or Master of Arts in Teaching), and they still considered themselves scientists. I wonder if it's the interpretation we have here?
                        Nah, you didn't offend me - I was just pointing out what happens here (Britain). The 'Arts' or 'Humanities' as they are called are anything not directly related to science: history, archeology, music, philosophy, Religious studies, etc. Physcology would fall under science (I think). You can also obtain a BA or a BSc in Geography.

                        It is possible to obtain a BA contaning some science courses (though the greater would be 'artsy' 'humanities'), and archeology and anthropology does use science methodology and techniques - carbon dating one of the biggies. But if the degree they obtain is a BA then no, they cannot call themselves 'scientists' - only those with a BSc, Masters in science and/or a PhD in some science branch can be defined as scientists.

                        IF they have a Masters in Science then they would be considered scientists, for they have studied, reserached and ontained a degree in a scientific field. And like I said above there is overlap, so it is likely that even though your friends recieved a BA in Earth and Space Sciences they had enough science in the degree so that they could handle and aim for a Masters in Science.

                        I certianly would not call Daniel a scientist and he wouldn't be able to persuade me otherwise unless he hands me proof that his title 'Doctor' relates to a scientific field.

                        Sorry if I sound curt but I have a minor burn on my right wrist and its giving me flak - therefore, I'm rushing this!
                        The man who opened the way.

                        The man who led the way.

                        "It will take you a million light years from home. But will it bring you back?" Stargate the movie

                        A mystery ... a secret ... a threshold ... to the future. Stargte the movie

                        The perfect SG-1 team: Colonel Jack, Daniel, Major Ferretti and Jonas

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Easter Lily
                          My biggest problem with Sam and Jack as a couple (apart from being a badly written relationship) is that I have a hard time envisaging them as a a couple outside of Stargate. Perhaps its from seeing them almost exclusively as military types which narrows my vision somewhat. To me, they are career military and while I'm not saying it's a passport to permanent celibacy... it is hard for me as a viewer and possibly for the writers to make any kind of relationship work in such a context without playing all kinds of cat and mouse games with the characters -- a strategm which I loathe. Also, apart from the military, I don't see much in common between Sam and Jack to sustain lifelong domesticity between the two. It isn't enough to just declare the old cliche that opposites attract without proving that this kind of situation could be beneficial to all concerned in the long term.
                          .
                          I always find the "opposites attract" argument interesting because now researchers are saying that while opposites may intially attract, you actually have a much better chance at a long term relationship with someone who is more similiar to you than different.

                          Of course, this being fiction, the writers can do what they want and there are surely opposites-couples who beat the odds.
                          Jace


                          When I was young, I used to admire intelligent people; as I grow older, I admire kind people.

                          Abraham Joshua Heschel

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Dani347
                            That's another problem. I know that to some it started in episodes like The Broca Divide or maybe even the pilot. But, that may be because of a difference in opinion on the definition of ship. Physical attraction does not equal ship in my mind. If you were to say that Jack thinks Sam is a really hot woman, it wouldn't bother me, and it also wouldn't convince me that he has feelings for her. Sam jumping Jack in the state she was in just doesn't scream love or caring. And, I'm sorry, AU's don't tell me anything definite about this reality. Yeah, civillian Samantha Carter might have loved Jack, but I didn't see it with our military Sam. And, I just don't see them as this cosmic couple that spans realities and times. So, just because they kept putting AU's together, it just didn't get through to me that I was supposed to believe the burning passion of our Jack and Sam. So D&C came totally out of the blue.
                            I have a lot of catching up to do in this thread, but the above caught my eye. Yes, yes, a thousand times yes!

                            I suppose one could also point to A Hundred Days, but even then my reaction to that Carter-Fraiser scene was "the hell?! "

                            re: AUs: The irony is that I was a big 'uber' fan during my time in Xena fandom. With O'Neill & Carter the subtextual implication ('cosmic couple') didn't even occur to me; rather, I thought, "Oh crap. The door's been opened."

                            Comment


                              I think the problem is the word "attracts" I think it means just the initial thing that sparks an interest. You see something strange and different, it's going to intrigue you, and in some cases, make you want to examine it closer. In social terms, I can see how someone different from you can hold some interest or even fascination in the beginning. But, I think sometimes, people see the saying "opposites attract" and view the word attract as meaning a definite long term thing. Attract is used to mean deep feelings or something.

                              Another thing is, like "meant to be" which is supposed to be self explanatory, it's not for me. Opposites attract? Why? I don't think people are attracted to everything that's different from them. I mean attracts them enough to make them consider a relationship. Like it's a trait they admire, even though they lack it, or something like that.

                              So, if opposites attract, what particularly about Jack's opposite qualities is supposed to draw Sam, and vice versa? Again, it seemed like tptb never cared to try and answer that, because it was supposed to be obvious. "They're meant to be" "Opposites attract" What more do you need to know?

                              But, I have to admit if I saw romantic chemistry between the actors, those answers might not be as important. I could just go with the flow (except the meant to be thing, which aggravates me) But, since they couldn't sell it that way, they always had a much harder time proving it to me.
                              I'm a girl! A girly girly girl!

                              Okay, you got me. I can't accept change. This message may look like it was typed on a computer and posted on the internet, but it is actually cave drawings delivered by smoke signals.

                              Naquada Enhanced Chastity Belts -SG1 edition. On sale now! Heck, I'll give them away

                              Daniel Jackson Appreciation and Discussion -because he's more than pretty

                              http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=89


                              Daniel Jackson: The Beacon of Hope and The Man Who Opened the Stargate

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by fishyone
                                I've always liked Sam, at least until the later seasons. I just couldn't stand what the ship did to a strong, confident woman... And I noticed her civilian clothes got more revealing and more objectifying in the later seasons. Sure, Sam's got a nice figure, but did we need to flaunt that as much as Chimera did?
                                The wardrobe in Chimera was downright weird, IMO. I didn't feel like I was watching Sam Carter at all. (You know it's going to be a ship season when Major Carter's hair is too dang long. )

                                The J/S ship and everything that went with it (Pete, Kerry Random, cold 'n' stiff Jack) are what made S7 and S8 nearly unwatchable and unpredictably putrid, respectively. Carter was and is my favourite character, and when she's heavily featured in an ep surrounded by a morass of ship it... kills me.

                                I know... I used to like Solitudes and Point of View, but now I can't hardly watch those episodes because I can't stand the ship in them...
                                I caught on to SG-1 during a Sci-Fi marathon that included Window of Opportunity and 2001. When I first saw those 2 eps, having seen nothing else, the shippy hints were just annoying ("Dang, even in a military-based show one can't escape the UST cliche."). After seeing many more eps, the stuff in WoO and 2001 became rage-making. I resent all the awkward ship manoeuvres in otherwise stellar eps like those and Entity.

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