Jack O'Neill/ Sam Carter - Part of a team, not a ship

[LoneStar1836]

New question: at what point did you become an anti-shipper?

I guess I became anti-ship when I got into online fandom which was sometime in early Season 7 or right before the season started. I can't remember. Course before then I was a pretty casual viewer anyway, and once the episode was over I really didn’t give it another thought, and I halfway watched S6. It was more something to watch than something to really think about. Course I’ve been watching the show since S2 was in syndication on a Sunday night at 10:30pm so having to think that late at night wasn’t a high priority.

I can’t really pinpoint an episode that turned me, though Season 7 alone should be enough. Pick an episode, any episode. 8 just reinforced it. I guess since it was more me getting into fandom that initially turned me, then D&C would have to be the episode at the center of what plagues Stargate because tptb openly acknowledged the existence of some sort of ship beyond friendship with Sam and Jack even though they danced around with it for the rest of that season all the way through S6, then laid it on heavy in 7 along with steroid injected 8.

It was called, "Evolution, Part 2."

{snip}

But this ep began with this awful, AWFUL scene, in which Sam laments the fact that Jack can't come with her to do whatever it was with the stormtroopers that she needed to do, and Jack also laments that he can't come with her, because he has to go rescue that pesky Daniel. Neither one of them show the slightest genuine concern that their best friend is being held hostage by a militia group. Never mind that if their positions were reversed, both Sam and Daniel would be clambering to rescue Jack.

The show spent seven years building up deep, loving friendships between Sam and Daniel, and between Jack and Daniel - and, in a single scene, threw it all out the window.

{snip} (but I concur with the rest of the post)

I totally detest that scene, and it is my most hated S/J ship scene. I can’t stand it for the exact same reasons you discussed. Plus I despise it for the way it was filmed, the lighting, the acting, the doe eyes, etc. Total Bleh.


I appreciate Heroes Pt 2 for the message it was trying to convey, so I still refuse to let the utter crap that crapped up the rest of the episode stand in the way of the message that our troops are out there everyday putting their lives in danger and sometimes making the ultimate sacrifice. So I appreciate the tip of the hat to the real soldiers out there on the line everyday, especially considering it was filmed during a time of war. I hate that they sacrificed Janet to do so, but they were expecting the series to end. Weren't they? At least at this point?

Ship so totally frelled up the rest of the episode along with the pathetic attempt to make us think that it could possibly be Jack. None of that should have even been considered. That and Janet’s total write-off in subsequent episodes do taint that episode horribly.

[jerin]

I don't think that's the case either. But, even if it was, I think that would have been as bad. Take an episode like The Fifth Race for example. (First one that popped into my head) If that episode had run over, do you think Jack's introduction to Thor would have been cut? Of course not. Because that was a vital part of the episode. They might have cut the Teal'c and Sam trapped on the planet scenes. They might have cut Daniel snarking the scientists. Jack and Thor? I don't think so. With Heroes, references to Janet should have been considered essential. The whole coy someone is dead but we won't say who, but imply it's Jack was something that could and should have been cut. Well, it never should have been written in the first place.

And, the sad thing is, I don't think the whole episode was meant as a way to stick more ship in. I think they meant it as a lesson on how bad things happen and soldiers die and sometimes there isn't a sarchophogus to bring them back Now, it should have been a tribute to Janet, not a lesson in what goes on in real life (thanks, but I never thought Stargate was real, so I didn't need the lesson). But, that's a rant for another thread. But, I think that in the midst of what they wanted the episode for, they couldn't resist sticking ship in there. Because this was about Sam losing her best friend, and any story where Sam takes center stage needs to have some ties back to her and Jack.

Agreed. I miss Janet. Maybe it had something to do with RDA being executive producer. I think that also has to do with the whole ship thing.

[jckfan55]

Agreed. I miss Janet. Maybe it had something to do with RDA being executive producer. I think that also has to do with the whole ship thing.

Not from what I've heard. I heard he didn't really like the whole ship thing & wasn't an egotistical producer. I doubt he demanded the episode be about his character.

[Frostfox]

Not from what I've heard. I heard he didn't really like the whole ship thing & wasn't an egotistical producer. I doubt he demanded the episode be about his character.

I've no idea if RDA approved of the 'ship' or not, but he didn't look like a man in love in his scenes with poor AT, particulary later in the series.
It seemed fine when it was gentle, flirtatious teasing but when the stuff got deep and heavy, RDA just didn't seem to play into it.
And contrast the lovely flirty stuff between Jack and the CIA lady in Threads, they were having so much fun and came over like a couple in just a few seconds of screen time.

FF

[jerin]

I've no idea if RDA approved of the 'ship' or not, but he didn't look like a man in love in his scenes with poor AT, particulary later in the series.
It seemed fine when it was gentle, flirtatious teasing but when the stuff got deep and heavy, RDA just didn't seem to play into it.
And contrast the lovely flirty stuff between Jack and the CIA lady in Threads, they were having so much fun and came over like a couple in just a few seconds of screen time.

FF

Thanks for letting me know. I feel sorry for poor AT when they have love scenes. RDA looks like he's kissing a cousin. It's sad.

[Easter Lily]

Not from what I've heard. I heard he didn't really like the whole ship thing <snip>

Really? It certainly shows...

[TracysTrails]

I think they meant it as a lesson on how bad things happen and soldiers die and sometimes there isn't a sarchophogus to bring them back

I agree, I think Heroes was conceived with the best of intentions, and could have been a very touching episode. Unfortunately, the only thing I really think of when I see it coming up in the rotation is, "Oh, yuck. The Sam and Jack Romance Show."

I'm not anti-ship in general. I love the idea of Daniel and Vala. I just never saw any chemistry between Sam and Jack and the whole idea makes me just cringe because it seems almost incestuous.

[Osiris-RA]

Not from what I've heard. I heard he didn't really like the whole ship thing & wasn't an egotistical producer. I doubt he demanded the episode be about his character.

Speaking of which, I've noticed that the Gecko production thingy isn't on the show ending anymore? Maybe I missed it but I'm pretty sure I don't see the Gecko anymore. Has RDA stopped producing Stargate?

[TracysTrails]

Speaking of which, I've noticed that the Gecko production thingy isn't on the show ending anymore? Maybe I missed it but I'm pretty sure I don't see the Gecko anymore. Has RDA stopped producing Stargate?

That's right. He's no longer a producer and his production company is no longer working on SG-1.

[Gaterelle]

I've no idea if RDA approved of the 'ship' or not, but he didn't look like a man in love in his scenes with poor AT, particulary later in the series.
It seemed fine when it was gentle, flirtatious teasing but when the stuff got deep and heavy, RDA just didn't seem to play into it.
And contrast the lovely flirty stuff between Jack and the CIA lady in Threads, they were having so much fun and came over like a couple in just a few seconds of screen time.

FF

Glad to hear I'm not the only one who feels this way!
I've never seen such bad acting from RDA in the "love" scenes. It's obvious that he doesn't like them.

[Gaterelle]

With Heroes, references to Janet should have been considered essential. The whole coy someone is dead but we won't say who, but imply it's Jack was something that could and should have been cut. Well, it never should have been written in the first place.

And, the sad thing is, I don't think the whole episode was meant as a way to stick more ship in. I think they meant it as a lesson on how bad things happen and soldiers die and sometimes there isn't a sarchophogus to bring them back Now, it should have been a tribute to Janet, not a lesson in what goes on in real life (thanks, but I never thought Stargate was real, so I didn't need the lesson). But, that's a rant for another thread. But, I think that in the midst of what they wanted the episode for, they couldn't resist sticking ship in there. Because this was about Sam losing her best friend, and any story where Sam takes center stage needs to have some ties back to her and Jack.

Yes yes and yes! FIrst of all, who the frell thought that Jack had died? Nobody. Why? Because he's the producer.
It felt so forced.

And the episode should've focused more on Janet than Sam&Jack, no question about it. Actually, the whole show should focus more on everything than Sam&Jack.

I liked the two episodes but felt that it got lost in the stupid ship...

[Gaterelle]

My problem with introducing ship into this show mainly has to do with the way it was set up. The premise of the show was about a group of people -- 4 individuals with different skills -- that go on these adventures together to explore other worlds. These people were a professional, tight-knit team and the strength of the show was in their dynamic as a team (Something I think Mr P said earlier)... I suppose then when the possibility of romance is suggested, it is a shock to the system. "I care for her more than I should". But why so? Why not Sam and Daniel? They have far more in common really. Nonetheless, it is never explained.

Oh yes, Daniel and Sam has way more in common and much more chemistry...but you see, Daniel isn't the hero so he can't get the girl.
Besides, he's Vala's now so...

[ShadowMaat]

Ya know, the ship on Stargate is so pathetic now it's almost hard to get annoyed with it. It's just... Sad. And embarrassing. I look at it and go, "Gods, is this the best they can come up with??"

All the possibilities open to the characters (ALL of them), all the directions they could have gone, and they stick with something as obvious and kitschy as that?? And then they try to be cutesy and clever about it? Memo to TPTB: it ain't cute, and it sure as hell ain't clever.

[Frostfox]

Ya know, the ship on Stargate is so pathetic now it's almost hard to get annoyed with it. It's just... Sad. And embarrassing. I look at it and go, "Gods, is this the best they can come up with??"

All the possibilities open to the characters (ALL of them), all the directions they could have gone, and they stick with something as obvious and kitschy as that?? And then they try to be cutesy and clever about it? Memo to TPTB: it ain't cute, and it sure as hell ain't clever.

I've never been annoyed by it, disgusted occasionally, squicked out, but not annoyed. Oh, and embarrassed, you are right there, Shadow, it's like watching an uncle turn up at a party with his new girlfriend who's half his age and all the relatives pointedly, politely ignoring them.

Is there still ship going on? I'd have thought the shippers would have packed up their rosy glasses, love hearts and red roses and gone on somewhere else now we've lost Jack?
I don't hang out on line with shippers, all my friends are either not into romance on the show or slashers so I don't keep up with what the Sam 'n Sir fans are doing. life is too short and way too busy to keep up with aspects of fandom I'm not interested in.

FF

[Beta Candy]

Is there still ship going on? I'd have thought the shippers would have packed up their rosy glasses, love hearts and red roses and gone on somewhere else now we've lost Jack?

Season 9 (Ex Deus Machina)

Spoiler:

In this past Friday's ep, Sam tells someone that she broke up with Pete and he asks her if that means she's single now. She says "not exactly" and that's the last we hear of it. It could mean anything, but given TPTB's track record, it's hard not to think they're inferring some commitment between her and Jack.