Jack O'Neill/ Sam Carter - Part of a team, not a ship

[Cory Holmes]

And how are they supposed to make a relationship work while they're developing each other? I think they'd kill each other first.

That'd be fun to watch, too

But I'd really enjoy watching Sam slowly coming around to enjoying some verbal fencing with McKay. It'd be fun to see her compete with him on that level, as well as in mathmatics.

[Blue Banrigh]

And how are they supposed to make a relationship work while they're developing each other? I think they'd kill each other first.

Like what Cory said, it'd be fun to watch.

In both 48hrs and Redemption McKay made Carter scramble for a competing solution to the problem. Don't think anyone else had made her do that.

Besides McKay isn't all thorns, he's got a soft heart and has heroic tendencies. It's just buried. And he's a cat person like Sam.

[embre]

Like what Cory said, it'd be fun to watch.

In both 48hrs and Redemption McKay made Carter scramble for a competing solution to the problem. Don't think anyone else had made her do that.

Besides McKay isn't all thorns, he's got a soft heart and has heroic tendencies. It's just buried. And he's a cat person like Sam.

ugh, cats

I agree with mckay's assessment of the cat vs dog dilemma, but I'd rather have a simple, loyal friend than an intelligent, reasoning animal that detestfully eyes you over its lazy whiskers.

[NightGloom]

I do like Sam/McKay, but I don't actually want to see it happening. If they started getting lovey-dovey on each other (not that they would anyway) I think I would have to shoot my television. At least they had some chemistry unlike some couples *cough* Sam/Jack *cough* *cough* even if it wasn't exactly romantic.

Seriously though!

Spoiler:

THERE IS NO CHEMISTRY BETWEEN SAM/JACK! Those shippy scenes in Threads were some of the most uncomfortable parts I've ever watched.

[Pagan Twylight]

I just had a crazy idea. What about a Sam/Daniel Ship?

It would make a lot more sense than Sam/Jack... Sam would drive Jack nuts in less than a week and he'd bore her to death in less than seven days. At least Sam/Daniel could have a conversation and understand one another and enjoy each other to boot.

And if she can look at Daniel and see a brother, she needs glasses. I have never seen how she could look at those two and choose Jack. Particularly in the last few seasons when the character of Jack has become even more 'dumb acting' and more of a sarcastic jerk. Of course, I guess it goes with Carter's character going south as she went into some type of mid-life crisis or something that set her back to her adolescence.

After watching parts of threads (most of which I couldn't watch, it made me feel too sick and disgusted) I'd just as soon both characters took a hike and went and lived in his cabin and left us alone.

Maybe we'd get a strong female lead back, although considering that there are only two in Atlantis (no, scientists and no military females) and now none in SG1 it makes me wonder if the writers CAN write a strong female. Personally, I have my doubts.

Subtle ship is one thing. I don't like being forced to watch it in a Sci'fi show. If I want that, I'll go read a good romance or a Sam/Martouf or Sam/Daniel fanfiction. I'm tired of the Sam/Jack being shoved down my throat.

But one of the things I find the most disturbing is that the show's writers, producers, whatever, actually seem to delight in upsetting the people that watch the show. To me, that just seem kind of sick and twisted. I don't know how their ratings stay so high.

I've watched very few episodes this year and up until this blatant s/j thing I wouldn't miss one. Hope springs eternal, they say, but they could be wrong. If Season 9 is as bad as this past season has been, I won't be watching it either. And I find that a sad commentary on a once great show.

Kat

[ShadowMaat]

Just as a minor nudge, I know I haven't been much better than the rest of you, but this IS an anti-S/J ship thread. It might be good to move alternative ship ideas and whatnot and discussion any possible merits of Sam/Jack, to the ship discussion thread: http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=88

Not that I'm a thread purist of anything. And I know I'm guilty, too.

[Katerine]

And how are they supposed to make a relationship work while they're developing each other? I think they'd kill each other first.

To me, this touches on the entire point. The whole reason S/J is so horrendous is that they're trying to make a relationship. Anytime the writers of any show do this with any pairing, the result falls flat.

Why? Because, contrary to what every writer of every show seems to think, we don't want to watch romances, at least not in shows that are not romantic comedies. We want to watch well-developed characters, and if they happen to have chemistry with each other, great. But, unless the show is a romantic comedy, there's one type of romance that's acceptable - and that's the romance that develops itself over the course of events, with no help from the writers. If it requires the help of the writers to make us see it, then it wasn't meant to be in the first place.

ugh, cats

I agree with mckay's assessment of the cat vs dog dilemma, but I'd rather have a simple, loyal friend than an intelligent, reasoning animal that detestfully eyes you over its lazy whiskers.

To each his own, I guess

Personally, a dog has always been a huge tongue trying to get to my face. Plus, when a cat loves you, it means something. When a dog loves you, it means you're alive.

[jckfan55]

NEVER!!

I think the best guy Sam was ever with was Orlin. Good 'ol Orlin! If onlt he'd stayed! Of course, Sam'd probably break his heart and he'd zap her or whatever they do as glowly balls of light.

But I've noticed ... Sam has been paired with almost every dude on the show .. 'cept Orlin of course. But does anyone find it strange that all starring female characters must be with some dudely influence? Hmm? Isn't it the least bit annoying?

yes on all counts.

[tashgate]

If it requires the help of the writers to make us see it, then it wasn't meant to be in the first place.

That just sums it up SO beautifully. This "womance" is so forced, and so CONTRIVED and so forcefully shoved down our throats for an episode or two a season it makes me sick to my stomach.

Does Jack even look happy to see her when she shows up univited at his house as she's taken to doing lately? Do the two of them even seem to have anything to TALK about when they're alone? Those scenes are just so forced and painfully awkward....

There have been a few good romances in TV series - I personally liked John and Aeryn in Farscape. I thought there was chemistry there. Did it MAKE the show? No, but it didn't squick me and make me grab for the remote, either. Jack and Sam is just plain nauseating.

[tashgate]

I didn't notice either. I had zero idea they had a ship in mind for the two of THEM until they slammed it in our faces that day with the blatant declarations that left me sitting there scratching my head and wondering when THAT happened.

My best friend and former roommate of 13 years and I watch Stargate together every week, no matter what... unless there's going to be ship involved. I can't watch a shippy episode with him because he knows how much it squicks me. He sits there on the couch and elbows me and whispers, "Awwwww, look... he WUBS her!" until I just want to punch him in the head.

Well, therein lies the problem... it was a present I think many didn't really want... it was forced on us and there was really no occasion for it... Stargate was sold as an action adventure show in a first contact situation and then out of the blue... "I care for her more than I should..." Really? Didn't notice.

[NightGloom]

That just sums it up SO beautifully. This "womance" is so forced, and so CONTRIVED and so forcefully shoved down our throats for an episode or two a season it makes me sick to my stomach.

Does Jack even look happy to see her when she shows up univited at his house as she's taken to doing lately? Do the two of them even seem to have anything to TALK about when they're alone? Those scenes are just so forced and painfully awkward....

There have been a few good romances in TV series - I personally liked John and Aeryn in Farscape. I thought there was chemistry there. Did it MAKE the show? No, but it didn't squick me and make me grab for the remote, either. Jack and Sam is just plain nauseating.

I agree. I loved John/Aeryn, there was actual chemistry there. I could stand Scully/Mulder, even though I stopped watching when the entire show seemed to focus on ship that was written in the actual script, instead of the little looks that lasted longer than they should, or the slight smile or something along those lines. It's very hard to write ship into an actual show. If they just tried to leave it as "the little looks" and such instead of shoving it down our throats, I guarantee you there wouldn't be as many Sam/Jack shippers because there just isn't much chemistry.

[embre]

get a smart dog. and a medium-size one. I have a lhasa apso, a short, very clean, very furry dog that NEVER licks me

[tashgate]

There would have been John/Aeryn ship in that show even if the writers had never thought of it. The two of them were sizzling together with or without the intention of the writers. Mulder and Scully had a certain something to them as well, though I always saw it as two people who knew each other inside out and really were involved in all aspects of each others lives and were just so darn CLOSE - it was great. Whether or not romance ever came out of it it was always a believable relationship of two characters who knew and cared for each other.

Then we have Sam and Jack. When he and Teal'c show up at her house in Ascension it's awkward, like people who never hang out together or share anything of a personal nature. I don't think that's ONLY because it's frowned on because of their work relationship and regulations. She shows up at his house and they have nothing to talk about. It's just one painfully awkward moment after another.

Without the "shoving down our throats" I honestly would have just thought that Jack had finally accepted a scientist as his second in command over the years, that he'd learned to trust both her and Daniel to watch his back even in battle and that their professional respect and admiration for one another had grown out of potentially bad fit for teammates... and that maybe they even respected each other as people as well as professionals.

But, nooooooo..... **choke** ** cram ** They WUB each other! *gag* **choke**

I agree. I loved John/Aeryn, there was actual chemistry there. I could stand Scully/Mulder, even though I stopped watching when the entire show seemed to focus on ship that was written in the actual script, instead of the little looks that lasted longer than they should, or the slight smile or something along those lines. It's very hard to write ship into an actual show. If they just tried to leave it as "the little looks" and such instead of shoving it down our throats, I guarantee you there wouldn't be as many Sam/Jack shippers because there just isn't much chemistry.

[Dr.Fraiser]

I know that this is the thread where I belong.

Me too, Judy actually your post caused me to register and speak up myself!

I will not watch anymore of the many loves of Sammykins, SuperSam or the lovegate. I will tape and wipe out any episodes that are more Sam than Daniel or Teal’c and there’s no point in wishing for more RDA without Sam. I won’t be watching the reruns of basically most of the second half of S7 plus Space Race and Avenger 2.0.

I could go on and on, but having to face that she has ruined Stargate for me, well I just don’t even want to she her face anymore, let alone think about her.

This is so well said I'm smiling ear to ear. With all these shippers running amok they don't realize the very thing they are flogging has ruined the show. Its been said already and I completely concur that TPTB shoving full frontal ship at us in S7 has done massive damage to the show. We've traded out compelling team exploration, science and stories for personal drama. Personal drama and who the team members sleep with is not Stargate to me. Since SciFi is owned by GE (NBC). Maybe we should recoin it Stargate: Passions. Now we'll just need a small doll and a old witch on the show.

God help us if Atlantis gets all shippy. If it does I will abandon the Stargate franchise completely. TPTB if they are wise will realise by promoting ship it will overwhelm all else and leave a show with a "where do we go now?" The fans of the old SG1 will have left in disgust and the shippers once the ship is exhausted will move on as they really don't care what the show was originally about. Where does that leave the TPTB - very little audience left. This is a warning to them.

Bottom line though S7 is the season which turned me away. You're dead on about Carter too. She's a embarrasment 40 year old woman googely eyed for her CO. She used to be a good role model - now she's an embarrasment.

Don't even get me started on Moebius pt.2. I turned the TV on as the scene in the back of the puddlejumper as they went at it. I just about vomited. I couldn't change the channel fast enough.

Thanks for the memories S1-6 SG1.

[LoneStar1836]

While I detest S/J ship, I don’t impart any blame on the shipper community. That blame all falls squarely on the shoulders of the writers, producers, and any other execs that had the bright idea to blatantly acknowledging it, and then continue tossing it in our faces. The shipper community is just enjoying that particular aspect of the show they like so I don’t begrudge them their happiness even though I wretch at the thought of S & J getting together, but that’s just me. I don’t watch Stargate for that aspect of the show, but I do think it has played a part in the declining quality of SG-1. Moebius II anyone? If shippers don’t see it that way, that’s their prerogative. But let’s don’t go around implying any blame on them for something we don’t like.