Jack O'Neill/ Sam Carter - Part of a team, not a ship

[LoneStar1836]

What's the point in including ANY scene if it doesn't serve to further the plot? As many times as I've watched that episode, I still can't see how that scene furthers the plot. I take what I can get shipwise but that scene still bugs me. It made absolutely no sense to include a scene that accomplishes nothing when they could have included so many things that would have added to the plot.

I agree with you about that scene. My example for that would most definitely be the one in “Evolution” when Jack goes to Sam in her office to say he’s going after Daniel. Well, duh, like we couldn’t guess that, but they go and use that scene to slap in some ship with the looks at each other, the lighting, the awkward dialogue. That’s my personal interpretation anyway of that particular scene. I can’t stand it.

Using ship to cover for bad writing has always been bad in my book. I have a problem when ship is used to make up for no plot.

I agree with that. I try not to blame ship for some of the suck-fest that comes out in the writing, but unfortunately it gets mixed in to the blah that the writers sometimes churn out. Though, some of the worst stuff they churn out is ship, imo, because they just can’t write for it, and it ends up tarnishing a great character. Geez, that sounds like I really hate the show, but I just think the writers could do better.

I loved Reckoning even though I didn't see any ship in it--it had a great plot and lots of action (the things that drew me to the show in the first place). I could use more eps like that!

From what I’ve gathered around the board, this one sounds good.

I'm actually looking forward to a season 9 when we will have a new lead (who I sincerely hope they will not ship with ANYONE).

Me, too.

I'm normally in favor of ship when it's fitting but I don't like poorly written ship and if TPTB have proven ANYTHING it's that they can't write ship.

Hopefully they have learned their lesson. Hopefully. Yeah that's probably wishful thinking, but what the hell, it can't get any worse......unless it migrates to Atlantis.

Ship is there for the sex and sex sells. There's no deep meaning to it at all. Not where Stargate is concerned. Not anymore.

How can you say such things? Prometheus Unbound is a prime example that the ship had a deep meaning to it. Granted it wasn't S/J, but we musn't exclude Danny from the wondrous glory that is ship. Hey it may have been forced ship, but what the hell, it wasn't just about the sex. Some really deep, creative thought went into that episode. It ranks as my all-time favorite. *wretch*

*Yay! 300 in my favorite thread.*

[Madeleine]

Threads is an ep i'll watch again, but after the first scene with Sam I'm going to just wind through every scene she's in until the briefing room scene at the end.

Spoiler:

She's a cow. She dumps Pete (which is perfectly reasonable) and *then* is a cow to him. What he's just said to her is a mature, poignant and sweet thing, and she trows it back in his face cos she'd expected him to beg her to stay or something. Is that the action of a nice person? Even though Grace made Sam wet, Lost City made her unprofessional, and Gemini made her a fool, I've never thought her a complete cow before. It's the final straw for Sam as far as I'm concerned. (It didn't help that when the friend she'd said was dead walked into the briefing room she screwed up her face like some off milk had gone into her coffee.)

Jack was comfy and happy with Kerry, stiff and tense with Sam. I still don't get any J-->S ship, only S-->J. It makes Sam look really dim.

And they sacrificed Jacob on the Altar Of Ship. They topped him just so he could give Sam some shippy last words. Bleeeee.

But the Daniel stuff was good.

[Easter Lily]

Thanks for the heads up, Madeline... I might do the same and leave the room during the cowlish bits... poor cows...

Spoiler:

It sounds like they've really decimated Carter this time... and ripped out any shred of dignity she had left... it's good that Jack's found som kind of companionship
Someone should give Carter a copy of " He's Just Not That Into You"... she sure fits the bill.

[astronomicalchick]

Hopefully they have learned their lesson. Hopefully. Yeah that's probably wishful thinking, but what the hell, it can't get any worse......unless it migrates to Atlantis.

Wash your mouth out with soap!!!

How can you say such things? Prometheus Unbound is a prime example that the ship had a deep meaning to it. Granted it wasn't S/J, but we musn't exclude Danny from the wondrous glory that is ship. Hey it may have been forced ship, but what the hell, it wasn't just about the sex. Some really deep, creative thought went into that episode. It ranks as my all-time favorite. *wretch*

Thank god, for a second,I thought you were serious

[Jace021903]

I have only read the transcript of Threads so maybe I will feel differently after the show airs here but here is what bugged me

Spoiler:

Sam went to tell Jack about her feelings before she broke up with Pete. Like she wanted to make sure she had Jack on the string before she let go of Pete.

Keep walking, Pete, and don't look back. You deserved a lot better than how Sam treated you.

Once again, Daniel is in danger, but everyone is too busy angsting over Sam's love life.

Once again, the death of a beloved supporting character is overshadowed by Sam's love life.



I really hate to say this, but I'm looking forward to five episodes without Sam in season nine. Maybe she's off getting therapy.

Never used spoiler tags before, I hope they work.

Jace

[Mr Prophet]

Ri-ight.

So, here's the thing...Since I've already been forced to depart from canon in my fic continuity, do I ignore Threads altogether or do I try to somehow rescue some dignity for the characters in my corner of the multiverse (I'm sure in the series they'll save the dignity by completely forgetting that either Pete or Kelly ever existed within a week) in order to write a scene in which

Spoiler:

Jacob's girl reacts to his death

.

This is where shipping recurring characters in fic and trying to keep canon becomes tricky; the inconsiderate buggers tend to die on you.

[animoid]

I mentioned it in my review (here ) before - I actually had this dream about "Threads" - I envisioned the first 30 minutes without any real storyline, just ship ship ship. No Dannyboy, no Jaffa, nothing but ship. It was very disturbing.
And then I saw the real thing and was relieved and disgusted at the same time.

Spoiler:

She's a cow. She dumps Pete (which is perfectly reasonable) and *then* is a cow to him. What he's just said to her is a mature, poignant and sweet thing, and she trows it back in his face cos she'd expected him to beg her to stay or something.

Spoiler:

I agree. It made her look very, very bad. Although I can't fully believe that Pete is SO understandable. It's like everyone automatically has to step back and bow when the SHIP is waltzing in and taking its place. In the same way I felt Kerry was only written in as a plot device for the SHIP.

[Major Clanger]

The sad thing is that these days a lot of people would just rather read fic and watch Atlantis and try to forget about Stargate.


I'm not quite there yet, but it's only a matter of time.

[Sha're]

Having read a fair whack of what's been written here, I just had to say I agree. I wouldn't class myself as an anti-shipper nor a shipper but I did for a moment there after after watching Threads think - thank God there will be new people in S9. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed this episode but watching S2 being repeated daily just makes me think how much more real the characters were back then. But I'll still watch it...
Can I also just agree with the comments about Sam. What is the deal with that "angry/shocked?" face that she seems to put on all the time now? And if she doesn't stop saying "ya think"...

[Easter Lily]

"Threads" was better than expected... quite moving in parts...
but the best emotional moments don't really belong to the shippy side of the story.

Spoiler:

In spite of the tender moments between characters S/J, Oma/D, S/Jacob, I still don't think the dynamic of Sam/Jack is one of romantic attraction... at least not on Jack's part. Sam seems to be falling all over him but Jack seems at least to want to get on with his life. It is a little disturbing to me that Pete and Kerry seem like convenient red herrings and cast offs deployed mainly as the catalyst to force this ship to the forefront.
I see that shippers are gloating over the ambiguous ending... On the one hand, I was partly relieved that there was no overtly mushy stuff but on the other hand I was partly annoyed that we haven't heard the last of this...

[ShadowMaat]

I've already predicted that Pete and What's-Her-Name will be forgotten and ignored even more completely than Jonas. There will be no reference to them. There will be no fallout over what happened. There will be nothing except Sam and Jack, IN YOUR FACE, ALL THE TIME and frak any pathetic gnat-like plot devices which have already been smeared into paste and washed out of the history books for all eternity.

I'm so glad I don't watch the show anymore.

[Liv]

Sigh.

I really shouldn't care anymore. I mean, I really shouldn't. The ship has taken over so many episodes that you'd think I'd be used to it, by now. 'Fraid not.

THREADS.

Double sigh.

I almost wish that I could see at least a smidgeon or the tiniest drop of spark between them. Something. Anything. To justify all the awkwardly, clumsy scenes that unfortunately find their way inside my brain. But I can't. I. Just. Don't. See. It. It's so frustrating to me, to have the characters that I usually recognize get turned into something they're not, all for the sake of ship.

I was very taken aback by how Sam acted in this episode. She was just... strange. It sure as heck wasn't the Sam Carter I'm used to seeing. The sighing, the flinching, the eye-rolling. And the awkwardness! Oh, the awkwardness!

Spoilers for Threads:

Spoiler:

The scene where she goes to see Jack was even worse than the one in Lost City. And Jack just seemed embarrassed by the whole thing. Every bit of emotional reaction (which is to say NONE AT ALL if we're talking the romantic variety) came from Sam. Jack was completely neutral throughout this entire scene - and frankly - it seemed to me like he couldn't wait for her to leave.

It was just BAD. Oh, so bad.

Oh, yeah, and they killed Jacob.

At this point I'm just anxiously awaiting s9 instead. I don't think I could stand another season of this. In fact, if Ben Browder hadn't been added to s9, and all of the other changes hadn't been announced I don't think I would have continued to watch. TPTB have just ruined the characters of Sam Carter and Jack O'Neill too much for me. It's a real shame, but that's the way I see it. I can't even look at them in a scene together anymore, without cringeing.

[Jace021903]

Spoiler:

Oh, yeah, and they killed Jacob.

Also spoiling Threads. And Heroes, too.

Spoiler:

You know at some point they are going to run out of supporting characters to kill off just so Jack and Sam can cuddle legally. I shudder to think who is next.

Jace

[Mr Prophet]

Can I also just agree with the comments about Sam. What is the deal with that "angry/shocked?" face that she seems to put on all the time now?

I guess it just happens every time AT reads a new script.

[Jonisa]

Sigh.

I really shouldn't care anymore. I mean, I really shouldn't. The ship has taken over so many episodes that you'd think I'd be used to it, by now. 'Fraid not.

THREADS.

Double sigh.

I almost wish that I could see at least a smidgeon or the tiniest drop of spark between them. Something. Anything. To justify all the awkwardly, clumsy scenes that unfortunately find their way inside my brain. But I can't. I. Just. Don't. See. It. It's so frustrating to me, to have the characters that I usually recognize get turned into something they're not, all for the sake of ship.

At this point I'm just anxiously awaiting s9 instead. I don't think I could stand another season of this. In fact, if Ben Browder hadn't been added to s9, and all of the other changes hadn't been announced I don't think I would have continued to watch. TPTB have just ruined the characters of Sam Carter and Jack O'Neill too much for me. It's a real shame, but that's the way I see it. I can't even look at them in a scene together anymore, without cringeing.

I couldn't agree with this more. I've had (very friendly) conversations with shippers who have gotten mildly exasperated with my views on the S/J ship and over and over again I've had to explain to them that I don't find the relationship interesting or compelling in the least. I can't find this wonderful chemistry that so many shippers speak of no matter how hard I look. Frankly all of their interactions make me cringe and I'm mildly embarrassed for the actors involved. I'm to the point in my little "JonisaWorld" where I simply FF through any S/J shippy scene and pretend it doesn't exist. That way I can still enjoy the characters.

It isn't that I'm anti-ship in general, as I've shipped for a few other characters on other shows. And it isn't that I haven't tried to find some teeny little spark of chemistry between Sam and Jack. I have. I've really looked because I want to like it. I don't want to be anti-anything. But it just isn't there for me, no matter how hard I try to see it. At. All.

Season 9 can't come fast enough. I'm a huge scaper, so adding Ben Browder and Claudia Black is a dream come true for me. I can't wait to see what MS's and CJ's storylines will be, and there's the added bonus of (probably) not having to deal with this shippy stuff anymore. Thank goodness.