Jack O'Neill/ Sam Carter - Part of a team, not a ship

[astronomicalchick]

((((((Sha)))))), (((((((shad)))))))) oh keep still Shadow I'm trying to give you a hug!!

I don't want to see ship on Stargate too, knowing how badly it's been handled in the past, I'm quite happy to play with Shep/Weir in my head and in fanfic, thank you very much...

however, I would like to see relationships explored as part of the mix, not romantic ones but friendships and the like. I would like to see Sheppard/Weir working relationship and friendship explored in more detail and how McKay gets on with the rest of the team and develops as a character (that's my two priorities). Is that allowed?

but first priorities, good stories and sci fic...

Somebody gave me negative rep for this... argghh!!

It said "Good stories are possible with S/J"

Must have been a newbie cos I was only docked 1 point... but this the Anti-ship thread...

*mutters*

[keshou]

How could you people write such disgusting mental imagery on this thread? Pass me the steel wool Beta Candy because I really wasn’t expecting to read this on an anti-ship thread. Must think about puppies and kittens or something to get those pictures out of my head.

Eek! Didn't mean to squick people out. Maybe Santa will bring me a new brain for Christmas.

I totally agree with every thing you’ve said. S8 is not a total bust, and I’ve liked most episodes (but not every aspect within each of those eps) but I SO was wanting them to have some kind of focus on Carter leading the team OFF-WORLD. There’s much potential there to develop her character and move the character’s evolution forward. (Right now Carter is stagnate and even somewhat devolving, imo.)

100% agree with you and Beta Candy. That's the saddest part. Sam is just 1/2 of S&J now. There was so much potential for her character in S8. And for the TEAM to develop in some new directions with new dynamics. I've been disappointed with that aspect so far, although I have hopes for the last half of S8. If it isn't overshadowed by resolving the S/J/P saga.

Aargh!! Feeling way too anti these days. Going to try and go back to being a non-shipper.

[Jonisa]

100% agree with you and Beta Candy. That's the saddest part. Sam is just 1/2 of S&J now. There was so much potential for her character in S8. And for the TEAM to develop in some new directions with new dynamics. I've been disappointed with that aspect so far, although I have hopes for the last half of S8. If it isn't overshadowed by resolving the S/J/P saga.

Aargh!! Feeling way too anti these days. Going to try and go back to being a non-shipper.

Unfortunately, all anyone seems to care about regarding Sam any longer is who she sleeps with. Some character development.

I know what you mean too about feeling too anti sometimes. I try to keep myself firmly in the "non-shipper, non-caring" camp myself, but sometimes I veer over into anti territory. That almost always results in me being extremely critical of the characters of Jack and Sam, and I hate going there. So I scurry back into a "Don't care, don't care, don't care" attitude about the ship. I find apathy works well for me.

As far as the rest of the season, I'm holding out hope. What I've seen that's coming up actually looks pretty good, and I'm going to concentrate on some of the other storylines that have me intrigued, hope for lots of team interaction and not too much ship, or at least subtle ship. I can FF through shippy scenes if there aren't too many of them and if the show isn't saturated with it. That way the shippers will be happy and I can live in my little land of denial about the whole thing. I'm good at denial. It works well for me.

[Beta Candy]

I had another thought about why we can all see these dymanics so differently: we're trying to relate them to dynamics familiar to us, and they just don't equate.

We think Daniel and Sam kind of act like siblings, right? But how many siblings go through life aware they may have to strip each other completely to treat a wound? May have to "combine body heat" and hope no one springs embarrassingly to attention during it? Or may have to watch each other's body doing something really, really nasty due to infection or something? This awareness - that they may just have to touch and see each other in ways no lovers or family members are intended to - creates a dymanic that escapes both family and romantic classifications.

Now, apply the same to every other pair in the group. Two of the guys "combining body heat". Anyone having ANYTHING to do with pulling Junior in or out of that pouch. Anyone in the group having to tend a wound on, say, someone's really upper thigh? It doesn't quite fit any dynamic most people find in their daily lives, does it? Not even the lover dynamic, b/c when are you ever going to be in the position of having to decide whether to save your lover or your sibling?

It's just not normal daily living, so when we try to apply family or romantic dynamics, they're always going to fall a bit short.

Regarding the "hope for Season 8", what gives me a bit of hope is that the spoilers SO suggest they are going to go in the worst possible direction that I'm hoping it's a misdirect to keep us off the real story. There are a couple of things in the spoilers that don't precisely add up in my head, and they suggest to me a couple of other possibilities for where this is all going - both of which would be better.

So, we'll see.

[astronomicalchick]

Eek! Didn't mean to squick people out. Maybe Santa will bring me a new brain for Christmas.



100% agree with you and Beta Candy. That's the saddest part. Sam is just 1/2 of S&J now. There was so much potential for her character in S8. And for the TEAM to develop in some new directions with new dynamics. I've been disappointed with that aspect so far, although I have hopes for the last half of S8. If it isn't overshadowed by resolving the S/J/P saga.

Aargh!! Feeling way too anti these days. Going to try and go back to being a non-shipper.

I agree, it seems like they really missed a trick with Sam, instead of concentrating how command is going for her, they've concentrated on her love-life, and her ruminations about being single versus being in a couple... what's that all about. A good episode where she was in command and it went wrong and she had to answer for it would have been far superior.

At the moment, I can't see how they can resolve the S/J without losing the integrity of the characters and I never thought I'd hear myself say that.

*sits down in shock*

I'm not an anti-shipper, but I find myself having empathy with the posts that are written here. I've also been playing with the Sheppard/Weir relationship, and its fun because (a) it's an interesting relationship without romance because of their respective positions (b) there's nothing overt so anything can be imagined, and ship isn't taking over the storyline. There are some people who've posted on our S/W thread who aren't typical shippers and have given some really great viewpoints on how they intepret scenes, and I've found that really interesting and its influenced how I look at the scenes now. So when I joke about the dark side, I might not be that far from it... (they'll never let me back into the shipper family now)

[ShadowMaat]

Maybe I should bring up the anti-ship thread again because I have less than no interest in anything remotely resembling Weir/Sheppard. They have an interesting WORK dynamic, but I see absolutely zero romantic chemistry between them, too, and I don't WANT to see it.

Sure, you say it's "subtle" now... so subtle I can't even see it. But that's the way it was with Sam/Jack, too, and look what happened with THAT.

[LoneStar1836]

Somebody gave me negative rep for this... argghh!!

It said "Good stories are possible with S/J"

Must have been a newbie cos I was only docked 1 point... but this the Anti-ship thread...

*mutters*

I think someone was doing a bit of sniping. I got pegged yesterday for post #603, yet they cut right to my heart by attacking me for being a Texan. (and it seems to have come from a fellow so-called Texan. )

"I am ashame you call yourself a Texan from the Lone Star State "

(psst, you forgot the "d")

You know fine for dinging me for being anti-ship (even though this is for some bizarre reason called the anti-S/J ship thread I think someone needs to learn how to read thread titles), but don't ever attack me for being a Texan.

And oh yeah, to stay on topic:

DOWN with S/J ship
DOWN with S/J ship
DOWN with S/J ship x infinity

Maybe Santa will bring me a new brain for Christmas.

Nah, I like the one you have just fine.

[LoneStar1836]

Gag! I just had to go and abuse myself and look at those spoiler pics posted for "Threads". Yuck, now I have to go to bed with that image seared into my mind. It's as bad as the earlier descriptions in this thread. Actually, those could almost work as captions for the pic. I knew there was a reason I was trying to avoid spoilers for that ep.

[astronomicalchick]

Maybe I should bring up the anti-ship thread again because I have less than no interest in anything remotely resembling Weir/Sheppard. They have an interesting WORK dynamic, but I see absolutely zero romantic chemistry between them, too, and I don't WANT to see it.

Sure, you say it's "subtle" now... so subtle I can't even see it. But that's the way it was with Sam/Jack, too, and look what happened with THAT.

think that was what I was saying..., but perhaps not clearly enough? They do have an interesting work dynamic and I'd like to see that explored, but as to overt ship on the screen... no...

PS hope you're having fun in London!!!

[astronomicalchick]

Gag! I just had to go and abuse myself and look at those spoiler pics posted for "Threads". Yuck, now I have to go to bed with that image seared into my mind. It's as bad as the earlier descriptions in this thread. Actually, those could almost work as captions for the pic. I new there was a reason I was trying to avoid spoilers for that ep.

*hands LS a margarita*

[GateGipsy]

They do have an interesting work dynamic and I'd like to see that explored, but as to overt ship on the screen... no...

They established right from the start a 'spark' between Shepherd and Teyla. If programs do that from the time they introduce a character, then I'm fine with that. However, they didn't have anything like that between Shepherd and Weir, and I don't 'see' any chemistry there either.

[astronomicalchick]

They established right from the start a 'spark' between Shepherd and Teyla. If programs do that from the time they introduce a character, then I'm fine with that. However, they didn't have anything like that between Shepherd and Weir, and I don't 'see' any chemistry there either.

Cool... leave it alone I say... so we don't get the bad writing and mess we got with Sam and Jack...

*hands GG a margarita as it's Friday and just because*

Got some chocolate Daniels somewhere... hang on....

*hands chocoDaniel to GG*

[Hathor999]

Has anyone read the spoilers on the german side which had the new spoiler pics for the upcomming season 8 episodes? I speak german so I could understand it. Is exactly that what I feared, the spoilers seems to indicate that

Spoiler:

Sam will dump Pete and Kerry will dump Jack after Sam comes to Jacks house and shows how jealous she is, so that Kerry seems to beliefe (my interpretation) that there something between them. Poor Jack, he can not have a romance without Sam´s interference...But for her is it fine to have all couple of episodes someone new...Narim, Martouf, Orlin, Pete and I´m would be not surprised if the writers/directors/producers would give her in season 9 (when Jack is no longer so often on screen) someone new without caring if she is together with Jack or not...

So I´m almost sure now that the explanation why Jack is leaving the Stargate Command is because he can be together with her...
Really I try to stay optimistic but right now I´m so depressed that I can´t not even be happy about the great spoiler pics for "Good to be King" and "Moebius". I´m almost glad that RDA will only comeback for 4 episodes so I have no real reason to watch season 9...

[Mr Prophet]

Maybe Jack will leave the SGC and go off to become a space hermit to avoid Sam stalking him.

[Hathor999]

Maybe Jack will leave the SGC and go off to become a space hermit to avoid Sam stalking him.

That would I like much more. To be honest I would like almost all endings more like the Sam and Jack as lovers ending.

I hope still that the writers will write will do the ship in a way which is subtle enough that fans who don´t like it can decide not to see it but this hope has shrunken very much after I was reading the things on that webside.