Jack O'Neill/ Sam Carter - Part of a team, not a ship

[NightGloom]

Oh, dear Christos, no! Nothing is going to happen without it being written and suddenly going 'surprise!' at the end is no way to handle any kind of ship. A ship does need chemistry, but it also needs to be developed by the writers and directors; Stargate isn't improvisational theatre, the makers can't just 'see what happens', they need a plan of some kind.

I didn't mean letting the actors decide what happens between their characters. Let the writers decide what would happen if the said chemistry continued throughout the series. And nothing huge like "Hey! Let's get married" or something dumb like that- something small like one kiss or something.

[ShadowMaat]

I've said it before, ship doesn't NEED to be written, people will see it if they want to... and/or if the actors choose to play it that way. You can't script chemistry; characters either have it or they don't. It it's natural, let it be, but don't ever try to force it, especially if the characters involved have all the active chemistry of a chunk of granite.

Once the writers admit ship exists, once they start scripting it and catering stories to include it... the spell is broken, at least for me.

[Mr Prophet]

Once the writers admit ship exists, once they start scripting it and catering stories to include it... the spell is broken, at least for me.

It depends on the ship. They wrote Crichton/Aeryn and that worked.

It's a binary thing: The ship won't work without chemistry, but if it's to be anything more than UST it needs to be sensitively written and developed; emphasis on sensitively. If you're not going to give it that sensitive development, you should just leave it to UST, but if you do that then you should never, ever write anything more than the odd innuendo and certainly not stick any 'fishing' in the final episode, however T and S the UST might be.

[ShadowMaat]

OK. You have a point there. If the writers are COMPETENT, then they can write ship/innuendo. Morgan & Wong actually did a very good job of it in X-Files. In my extremely biased opinion, anyway. I wasn't a Mulder/Scully shipper, but I liked the way they wrote things. They kept it SUBTLE. I can deal with subtle, I can even appreciate it. But it's a fine balance. XF tipped the scales after M&W left. SG-1 has done the same thing and I'm afraid of what might happen on Atlantis.

Lost has gone too heavy, too fast as well. *sigh*

[NightGloom]

OK. You have a point there. If the writers are COMPETENT, then they can write ship/innuendo. Morgan & Wong actually did a very good job of it in X-Files. In my extremely biased opinion, anyway. I wasn't a Mulder/Scully shipper, but I liked the way they wrote things. They kept it SUBTLE. I can deal with subtle, I can even appreciate it. But it's a fine balance. XF tipped the scales after M&W left. SG-1 has done the same thing and I'm afraid of what might happen on Atlantis.

Wait... you think there's going to be ship on Atlantis *groans* that's all I need...

I have to admit, even though I was a NoRoMo for Mulder/Scully it wasn't bad until the whole William thing and I still can't stomach "All Things" and a few other episodes but up until that it was nicely subtle.

Lost has gone too heavy, too fast as well. *sigh*

Kate/ half the guys on the island-yes
Charlie/Claire- No way! Charlie/Claire all the way...

[ShadowMaat]

Kate/ half the guys on the island-yes
Charlie/Claire- No way! Charlie/Claire all the way...

Oh, Charlie/Claire I can handle. That's one pair I could actually ship for. But yes, I meant Kate and half the male population. *gag* Please, no.

[Liv]

It depends on the ship. They wrote Crichton/Aeryn and that worked.

Agreed. The Crichton/Aeryn ship is one I embraced from the very beginning because Browder and Black have some of the best chemistry I have ever had the pleasure of seeing on screen. And that includes the big screen.

[keshou]

It depends on the ship. They wrote Crichton/Aeryn and that worked.

It's a binary thing: The ship won't work without chemistry, but if it's to be anything more than UST it needs to be sensitively written and developed; emphasis on sensitively. If you're not going to give it that sensitive development, you should just leave it to UST, but if you do that then you should never, ever write anything more than the odd innuendo and certainly not stick any 'fishing' in the final episode, however T and S the UST might be.

Crichton/Aeryn worked because the chemistry was fantastic and because the show was basically a love story set in outer space.

I didn't particularly care for the chemistry of Sheridan/Delenn on Bab5 but their romance worked because it was crucial to the development of the overall story arc.

Stargate wasn't really structured to have two of the team members fall in love with each other. It was tacked on later in the series. Jack and Sam would have been fine if it had stayed subtle UST with maybe some sort of resolution that allowed the shippy fans to imagine Jack and Sam getting together. I don't see all that much chemistry but I know there are fans who do.

But now I'm terribly afraid that with the roller coaster of ship/no ship the writers have written themselves into a corner on this one and are going to go for the huge shippy stuff in the last episode. I'm still hoping for subtle but I think it may be a lost cause.

[Beta Candy]

I've said it before, ship doesn't NEED to be written, people will see it if they want to... and/or if the actors choose to play it that way. You can't script chemistry; characters either have it or they don't. It it's natural, let it be, but don't ever try to force it, especially if the characters involved have all the active chemistry of a chunk of granite.

Once the writers admit ship exists, once they start scripting it and catering stories to include it... the spell is broken, at least for me.

You know, it occurs to me that both RDA and AT have chemistry with several other actors (not necessarily romantic), and they DID have chemistry with each other early on. It seems to me they deliberately avoid chemistry between those two, but I can't think of a sensible reason to do that. Although lord knows I've seen couples in real life and been totally unable to imagine them talking to each other for a sustained period let alone living together and having kids.

OK. You have a point there. If the writers are COMPETENT, then they can write ship/innuendo. Morgan & Wong actually did a very good job of it in X-Files. In my extremely biased opinion, anyway. I wasn't a Mulder/Scully shipper, but I liked the way they wrote things. They kept it SUBTLE. I can deal with subtle, I can even appreciate it. But it's a fine balance. XF tipped the scales after M&W left. SG-1 has done the same thing and I'm afraid of what might happen on Atlantis.

My favorite example of XF subtle ship was the episode with Lily Tomlin and Ed Asner and the haunted house at Christmas... when Ed Asner says to Mulder, "You stole her keys, didn't you?" I expected Mulder to deny it, instead he looked guilty. It was such an a-ha! moment - to my shipper friends it was total confirmation, to me it was just confirmation that Mulder was pathetic. LOL!

[NightGloom]

Oh, Charlie/Claire I can handle. That's one pair I could actually ship for. But yes, I meant Kate and half the male population. *gag* Please, no.

*Sigh* Figures the only ship I'm rooting for probably won't last long.


Crichton/Aeryn I liked. I was in no way a shipper for them, but I did like the way that they wrote it into the show and the two had some really good chemistry.

Frankly, I don't see any romantic chemistry between RDA and AT, but a lot of shippers do. If there wasn't any ship written into the storyline shippers would still see the chemistry that they supposedly see now and they can go make up fan fics and such.

[Hathor999]

But now I'm terribly afraid that with the roller coaster of ship/no ship the writers have written themselves into a corner on this one and are going to go for the huge shippy stuff in the last episode. I'm still hoping for subtle but I think it may be a lost cause.

At first I want say sorry for my bad english, it´s not my home language.

I´m not a shipper but I wouldn´t call myself an anti-shipper. I can´t see them as being in love - to be honest I have sometimes doubts that they even like each other at all, but that´s me and saw myself always as neutral.

I CAN understand that the shipper want´s something they can like in the last episode and I CAN understand, too that they want an end for the Sam/Pete relationship - with both things I have no problems But now were RDA is very possible leaving (more or lesser) the show, I must say that with one thing I would have a BIG problem: If it turns out in the end that Sam and Jack will be without any doubts a pair.
I can accept it if it would be done in a subtle way so that the shipper can they yes it is so - and I can say no it´s not.But an end were they will be shown as lovers or even married - that would destroy the show for me.

And a possible season 9 with Sam still going on missions and Jack waiting at home for her it´s for me much worser as no season 9.
So I hoping too that the ship in the last couple of episodes will be done in a subtle way because otherwise I don´t beliefe I could ever enjoy Stargate anymore - no matter if it´s an season 9 of SG 1 or Atlantis or an DVD-or-feature film.

[NightGloom]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHh!!!!

Season 9!! Great! Now I bet you any money that this ship is going to drag out throughout all this season! Even if RDA only signs on for what was it? Four episodes? And even if AT has shortened screentime, I bet some of that screentime will be spent on ship. Threads is probably going to be written so it can drag out too...

[Mr Prophet]

I hope I'm wrong, but I just have a horrid feeling that when AT has to cut down her screen time they'll come up with a shippy reason for it; like she wants to spend more time on Earth with Pete/Jack/some terrifying hairy biker she met in a bar rather than off saving the universe. That would just be the final nail in the coffin of tough Sam; bury her next to tough skeptic Scully and strike up the requiem.

[DJFavorite]

Well, I'm thinking that AT's light screen time will be at the very begining of season 9. They could easily write her out of an episode by using the "broken leg/surgery recovery" type excuses. They've done it before. When MS had his appendix removed, they wrote him light screen time for that. At least, that's what I'm hoping for. Worst case would be she's on her honeymoon with Pete, which would be even better because at least we know she wouldn't be with Jack.

[Hathor999]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHh!!!!

Season 9!! Great! Now I bet you any money that this ship is going to drag out throughout all this season! Even if RDA only signs on for what was it? Four episodes? And even if AT has shortened screentime, I bet some of that screentime will be spent on ship. Threads is probably going to be written so it can drag out too...

My optimistic side hopes that with RDA only in 4 episodes it will mean that they will not sacrifice too much of his time in the show for ship.
But my pessemistic side fears that you are absolutly right and that we may even see Jack in season 9 as Sam´s husband (please NO!).

I fear that all we can do is wait what will happen.