Jack O'Neill/ Sam Carter - Part of a team, not a ship

[GateAngel]

I just wanted more for these two characters than the cliched 'romance' storyline. The concept of Sam Carter as a woman who had to fight for every inch of respect and position of authority she had gained intrigued me. I wanted so much for there to be a continuation of a 'mentoring' relationship between Jack and Sam where she could be free of having to have that 'militant feminist' stance just to protect herself. I liked that Jack treated her like he did Daniel and Teal'c..in that the only thing she had to prove was that she could watch his six and never betray her team.

There was nothing wrong with him looking at her strictly as his 2IC and a fellow officer with no attraction or sexual tension going on. There was nothing wrong with her looking at him as a mentor who was able to look past the gender difference and see the person she was and the competent officer that she is. There was nothing wrong with Sam being considered 'one of the boys' when she was on duty and out in the field.

This 'will they/won't they' romance story has taken over the show and taken over Sam Carter's storyline when there are so many other interesting things they could be doing with her as a character and that this is the best they can come up with puzzles me to no end especially when they have such talent at their disposal to work with.

[Liv]

I just wanted more for these two characters than the cliched 'romance' storyline. The concept of Sam Carter as a woman who had to fight for every inch of respect and position of authority she had gained intrigued me. I wanted so much for there to be a continuation of a 'mentoring' relationship between Jack and Sam where she could be free of having to have that 'militant feminist' stance just to protect herself. I liked that Jack treated her like he did Daniel and Teal'c..in that the only thing she had to prove was that she could watch his six and never betray her team.

There was nothing wrong with him looking at her strictly as his 2IC and a fellow officer with no attraction or sexual tension going on. There was nothing wrong with her looking at him as a mentor who was able to look past the gender difference and see the person she was and the competent officer that she is. There was nothing wrong with Sam being considered 'one of the boys' when she was on duty and out in the field.

You know, just reading it like that makes me get all worked up again as to why they couldn't have left it at that. *shakes fist at TPTB* Why, in heavens name, why? Gah.

I was watching CSI the other night and it struck me how many similarities there are (IMO) with Jack/Sam and Grissom/Sara. Both are incredibly forced relationships with no apparent romantic chemistry, whatsoever. Both seemed to develop feelings for each other over night. *snaps fingers* Just like that. Leaving us in the audience to wonder, what the heck is *that* all about? Where did it come from? Have we been completely blind for the past so and so years? Both are in a "he's the General/Boss-type-person, she's the one who calls him "Sir"/works for him" situation. (I don't know the regulations for CSI-personel, and honestly the CSI example doesn't bother me, because as far as I know Sara doesn't refer to Grissom as "Sir", but you get the idea.)

Let's see, what else? Well, there's the fact that some episodes are completely "ship-free", and you're sitting there thinking "hmmm, well, maybe they dropped it", until suddenly without any sort of explanation you get a scene along the lines of (on CSI) "Since when did you care about beauty? Since I met you." (I'm paraphrasing) // (on SG1) Take your pick, basically.

The thing is when they just throw it in there all of a sudden, it makes the episode itself less believable, for me. It throws the entire shape of events off course. Basically, "shippy" scenes destroy certain events or storylines I would otherwise have loved. And I'm just left with an overwhelming question of "What's the point?"

The concept of "man/woman lead on show must in one way or another get together" bothers me so much. Another example is the spinoff Angel (from Buffy), where Angel and Cordelia developed feeeeeelings for each other, after they had such a beautiful friendship going on where their love was completely platonic and based on mutual respect towards each other. I loved that relationship so very much. I was so grateful that we got to see them take care of each other and be there for one another, without there being any sort of romantic feelings involved. Unfortunately, that didn't last and it is one of the foremost reasons that I don't care for s3-4 as much as I do with s1-2. Ship messed things up in a big way.

Sam/Jack will never in a million years work for me. There's nothing there, never will be. I wish they would just let it go. But since that's not likely to happen, I'll just have to settle for letting my objections be known.

I can do that.

[Dani347]

The concept of "man/woman lead on show must in one way or another get together" bothers me so much.

And what bothers me (along with everything else)is I can't think of any reason past that for tptb even trying to put them together.

[codec]

Hey all. Just found this forum, and it's nice to know there's a place where I can just openly discuss why I don't like the Sam/Jack ship. I'm part of an Alias message board that has one measly thread in the general tv forum dedicated to Stargate, and the majority of those posters are S/J shippers. Although, I don't want to see a war started between shippers and non-shippers. I've had my fill of that with the Alias fandom. SG-1 has been on the air for close to eight years, and nothing has come to pass between Sam and Jack. I thought the writers were treating them as mature adults who had an initial attraction to one another, but then dropped it and moved on. Bringing it up out of the blue in season eight is a bad move. Why can't they allow Sam to be happy?

[NightGloom]

Welcome! It's always great to see someone opposed to the S/J ship like I am. Sadly enough, I never thought that the writers dropped the storyline. See, I like to think the worst and then be pleasantly suprised if something good comes out of it. However, I don't think that it will happen for this one.

[Dani347]

Expect the worst, and if something better comes you'll enjoy it all the more.

[NightGloom]

Expect the worst, and if something better comes you'll enjoy it all the more.

Aye, that's my theory. Huzzah! For pessimism!

[codec]

I notice this thread is always a few pages back. Granted, there's only so much one can say about the problems of the S/J ship without repeating the same points over and over.

[NightGloom]

Aye, but we can always complain each week about them having a shippy moment in there.I think that would get annoying pretty quickly. Unless it's a really big one that's so annoying that I just have to say something about it, I usually don't complain... too much.

[KorbenDirewolf]

hmm.. maybe we ought to treat as that other thread seems to be used.

[ShadowMaat]

I notice this thread is always a few pages back. Granted, there's only so much one can say about the problems of the S/J ship without repeating the same points over and over.

Your point being? And? But? Therefor? So?

[Liv]

No Sam/Jack ship!

No Sam/Jack ship!

No Sam/Jack ship!

Nope, I don't I'll ever get tired of saying this.

[Madeleine]

One reason this thread will never get terribly big is that there's little point in speculation (it wouldn't make us happy ) and bereft of the will to speculate all there is to do is criticize or gripe.

The title of this thread is a pointer. Being 'Anti' something involves being negative (by definition). Okay that's true here to an extent, but it isn't the whole truth. I'm actually very pro Jack & Sam having a really nice good close platonic professional friendship but that's not a very snappy 'title' for me

I feel that the relationship that Sam and Jack had in Solitudes, Secrets, Serpent's Lair and all those early eps was a rare and beautiful thing, I cherished it. I loved how much his professional approval mattered to her, and how he knew just the right times to push her and just when to guide her. I loved how easily they could natter. I loved the implicit message that even though Sam is a pretty female on TV she doesn't have to make eyes at The Hero to be fully operational as a dramatic character.

I'm not just anti-ship because I'm 'anti'. I'm also very 'pro' as well; my pro=ness just runs in a different direction to ship. And there's not much mileage in speculating about how the future of a platonic J/S friendship would run cos it would be like getting my hopes up falsely. Hence a thread with a pretty limited capacity for growth.

[codec]

Being 'Anti' something involves being negative (by definition). Okay that's true here to an extent, but it isn't the whole truth. I'm actually very pro Jack & Sam having a really nice good close platonic professional friendship but that's not a very snappy 'title' for me

I feel that the relationship that Sam and Jack had in Solitudes, Secrets, Serpent's Lair and all those early eps was a rare and beautiful thing, I cherished it.

Hey, well put. I'm definitely anti-ship, but that doesn't mean I want to trivialize the relationship between the two. You know, the platonic relationship between a man and a woman. That doesn't involve romance. Seriously, these things exist. I swear.

[KorbenDirewolf]

Maybe we need a new name for the thread.. Need to hire a PR firm to put a spin on our position. Jack/Sam Friends? something like that.... Probably wouldn't work out anyhow.