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    Originally posted by Khentkawes View Post
    Slight continuation of me dragging discussion off-topic with snarky-Daniel...

    Spoiler:


    That's exactly how I see it. Daniel was always snarky. I've heard some people say that his snarky comments in seasons 9-10 feel like they were written for Jack, but I don't see it. It sounds consistent for his voice to me. I could see your theory that Daniel's snark was more obvious without Jack's more frequent snark-offs. Plus, there are moments when it seems like Daniel makes a snarky comment to break the tension because Jack isn't around to do it. But considering we saw him do that all the way back in season 4 with Watergate... it's hardly surprising.

    You're probably right about RDA's foot surgery. I don't follow all of those details about the actor's lives very closely, but it would make sense. And I agree (surprise, surprise ) that scene was really important for Daniel's character development. I always want so badly to like it, because the dialogue seems solid and it should be such a significant scene... but it just feels flat.



    (and yay! for finding people who agree with me ). It always felt like natural character growth to me. Especially since season 9 and 10 pretty well established that the historian/archeologist side of Daniel's personality was still very important to him... as was his connection to the Ancients. So for me, it worked as natural character development.




    Yep! If there was some growth or maturity to the romance story line, then okay. Fair enough. But there never was. As much as I would have hated to see it, it would have been better from a writing standpoint to just address the relationship head-on and deal with it one way or the other. I get that they were trying to keep as many fans happy as possible by leaving it somewhat ambiguous, but seriously. It only made things worse in the end.

    I think it might have been interesting to see them try to give Jack and Sam some type of romantic relationship, and then have them realize that it doesn't work because it would have been less of a cliche and it would have shown that romances are complicated and not nearly as fairy-tale-like as they sound. It could have worked if Sam had transferred to the science department so that her and Jack could get together, they spent half a season or so as a couple, then realized it wasn't working out because they had different life goals and Sam regretted giving up SG-1 for Jack. Then Jack could have been promoted to General, Sam could return to SG-1, and they could agree that they were best just working as friends and colleagues.

    Of course, that's just my preference, and it would have upset a lot of fans. Can't have that obviously. Oh wait, TPTB already upset a lot of fans on both sides of the issue. Guess it's a little late for making the fans happy then.



    I saw a picture of RDA the other day while browsing the forum that I think was supposed to be shipy, but to me it looked like "tight-jawed and slightly scowling." Yikkes! Not a look I really want directed at me, especially by a guy I might have feelings for.
    Daniel snark: the sequel
    Spoiler:
    One of my favourite snarky moments was when he asked which end of the gun the bullets went in (The Sentinel?). He was also deliciously snarky with an engineer in The Fifth Race, when they were trying to figure out the device Jack had MacGyvered. Snark for the win!


    Interesting points about the way the ship might have played out. It would have been interesting to watch them try and fail to have a relationship. At least that would have had some sense of development and moving forward of the storyline. As it was, by the very nature of how they chose to pursue it, it stagnated and looked increasingly juvenile and ill-considered. As you say, too late now.

    The image where Jack looks especially uncomfortable when he's supposed to be ship-tastic is the Always scene from Threads. He looks like he's lost a tenner and found a penny, as we say round these parts. I mean, I know it's a solemn moment, Sam's dad is dying, but he's supposed to be comforting her. I wouldn't be too thrilled if someone offering comfort looked as disinterested as that! Maybe FF or someone more savvy than I can post it and then we can consider further.

    Comment


      The idea of "twu wuv" doesn't make sense to me AT ALL if not filled with angst. I mean... if they truly love each other that much, then they're willing to suffer to be with each other.

      Love is also a bit of a blinding agent, a couple can get together because they care about each other, but then find out that they've got issues that aren't as easily resolved with a hug than they thought. A relationship requires communication, and an openness to talking about their issues. That would have been great to see IF that's what SG-1 was about, which it wasn't.

      I fully believe that a pairing including Sam, no matter who its with, is doomed to angst because Sam simply has too much baggage for it all to just wishy wash away with teh promise of "wuv". It'd be a struggle if not a battle if its with another of the popular choices (Jack, Cam, or whoever)

      I do the same whenever i have a Sam/John fic. Angst FTW because it's realistic! Make the ship seem all the better since OMGZOR, they're acting like ADULTS (most of the time)

      That's the problem, we never got hte impression of a healthy adult romantic relationship between Sam and Sir, we only ever got teenage wishy washy "I knows" and "Always" and other stuff that's just a cop out to actually talking about their feelings. And Jack of course never talks about them AT ALL, but Sam just can't seem to ignore the estrogen in her body! Argh!

      I've boiled it down to this for myself personally, i don't believe they'd have a healthy romantic relationship if they so choose to have one. It'd be jumping the shark and horribly cliche to me. Others are free to disagree but from what i've seen in the show, Jac could s be advertising Preparation H for all i know in what are deemed "shippy' scenes.
      Originally posted by Apostle's Message Redux
      Shepard understood. Given the situation, he wasn't sure that exposing the planet to this kind of secret was smart. Miranda had regaled him with stories of how horrible 20th century Earth sounded in her history lessons and it made him leery. "I agree, god knows what would happen if Grunt got loose."

      Joker snorted and muttered loudly. "Run! It's The Incredible Hulk! Kill it with fire!"
      Read the story ---- Apostle's Message Redux, ME/SG Crossover

      Comment


        Originally posted by Khentkawes View Post
        Slight continuation of me dragging discussion off-topic with snarky-Daniel...

        Spoiler:


        That's exactly how I see it. Daniel was always snarky. I've heard some people say that his snarky comments in seasons 9-10 feel like they were written for Jack, but I don't see it. It sounds consistent for his voice to me. I could see your theory that Daniel's snark was more obvious without Jack's more frequent snark-offs. Plus, there are moments when it seems like Daniel makes a snarky comment to break the tension because Jack isn't around to do it. But considering we saw him do that all the way back in season 4 with Watergate... it's hardly surprising.

        You're probably right about RDA's foot surgery. I don't follow all of those details about the actor's lives very closely, but it would make sense. And I agree (surprise, surprise ) that scene was really important for Daniel's character development. I always want so badly to like it, because the dialogue seems solid and it should be such a significant scene... but it just feels flat.

        (and yay! for finding people who agree with me ). It always felt like natural character growth to me. Especially since season 9 and 10 pretty well established that the historian/archeologist side of Daniel's personality was still very important to him... as was his connection to the Ancients. So for me, it worked as natural character development.
        Spoiler:


        Sam and Jack weren't the only victims of TPTB laissez-faire and rather unfocused characterisations in later seasons. All the principals suffered from it.




        Originally posted by Khentkawes View Post
        Yep! If there was some growth or maturity to the romance story line, then okay. Fair enough. But there never was. As much as I would have hated to see it, it would have been better from a writing standpoint to just address the relationship head-on and deal with it one way or the other. I get that they were trying to keep as many fans happy as possible by leaving it somewhat ambiguous, but seriously. It only made things worse in the end.

        I think it might have been interesting to see them try to give Jack and Sam some type of romantic relationship, and then have them realize that it doesn't work because it would have been less of a cliche and it would have shown that romances are complicated and not nearly as fairy-tale-like as they sound. It could have worked if Sam had transferred to the science department so that her and Jack could get together, they spent half a season or so as a couple, then realized it wasn't working out because they had different life goals and Sam regretted giving up SG-1 for Jack. Then Jack could have been promoted to General, Sam could return to SG-1, and they could agree that they were best just working as friends and colleagues.
        Again, that would have been at least interesting (unlike what happened between S/J on the show, which was deadly dull) but falls under the umbrella of a realistic portrayal of the complexities of a relationship between them. Rather than the 42 minute, TV SF action adventure version of a relationship which we were given. Too pat and simplistic to be real or engaging or to have anything important to say about the realities of relationships between real people.

        Originally posted by Khentkawes View Post
        Of course, that's just my preference, and it would have upset a lot of fans. Can't have that obviously. Oh wait, TPTB already upset a lot of fans on both sides of the issue. Guess it's a little late for making the fans happy then.


        I saw a picture of RDA the other day while browsing the forum that I think was supposed to be shipy, but to me it looked like "tight-jawed and slightly scowling." Yikkes! Not a look I really want directed at me, especially by a guy I might have feelings for.
        Originally posted by jdjunkie View Post
        Daniel snark: the sequel
        Spoiler:
        One of my favourite snarky moments was when he asked which end of the gun the bullets went in (The Sentinel?). He was also deliciously snarky with an engineer in The Fifth Race, when they were trying to figure out the device Jack had MacGyvered. Snark for the win!


        Interesting points about the way the ship might have played out. It would have been interesting to watch them try and fail to have a relationship. At least that would have had some sense of development and moving forward of the storyline. As it was, by the very nature of how they chose to pursue it, it stagnated and looked increasingly juvenile and ill-considered. As you say, too late now.

        The image where Jack looks especially uncomfortable when he's supposed to be ship-tastic is the Always scene from Threads. He looks like he's lost a tenner and found a penny, as we say round these parts. I mean, I know it's a solemn moment, Sam's dad is dying, but he's supposed to be comforting her. I wouldn't be too thrilled if someone offering comfort looked as disinterested as that! Maybe FF or someone more savvy than I can post it and then we can consider further.
        Couldn't be bothered, to be frank, but this one will do -
        This is a man supposedly looking at a woman he desires beyond all others. I've seen cod fish look happier, battered and fried.

        And this one. He's dying, by the way, and the last thing he really needs is to be confronted about any supposed 'feeling feelings' by his 2IC.
        Never, in the the field of human endeavour has one man managed to look so uncomfortable when faced with the supposed love of his life.

        I rest my case.

        Originally posted by Aragon101 View Post
        The idea of "twu wuv" doesn't make sense to me AT ALL if not filled with angst. I mean... if they truly love each other that much, then they're willing to suffer to be with each other.

        Love is also a bit of a blinding agent, a couple can get together because they care about each other, but then find out that they've got issues that aren't as easily resolved with a hug than they thought. A relationship requires communication, and an openness to talking about their issues. That would have been great to see IF that's what SG-1 was about, which it wasn't.

        I fully believe that a pairing including Sam, no matter who its with, is doomed to angst because Sam simply has too much baggage for it all to just wishy wash away with teh promise of "wuv". It'd be a struggle if not a battle if its with another of the popular choices (Jack, Cam, or whoever)

        I do the same whenever i have a Sam/John fic. Angst FTW because it's realistic! Make the ship seem all the better since OMGZOR, they're acting like ADULTS (most of the time)

        That's the problem, we never got hte impression of a healthy adult romantic relationship between Sam and Sir, we only ever got teenage wishy washy "I knows" and "Always" and other stuff that's just a cop out to actually talking about their feelings. And Jack of course never talks about them AT ALL, but Sam just can't seem to ignore the estrogen in her body! Argh!

        I've boiled it down to this for myself personally, i don't believe they'd have a healthy romantic relationship if they so choose to have one. It'd be jumping the shark and horribly cliche to me. Others are free to disagree but from what i've seen in the show, Jac could s be advertising Preparation H for all i know in what are deemed "shippy' scenes.
        The very fact we can have such conversation is a sad testimony to just how limp, ineffectual and wishy-washy S/J was.

        FF
        sigpic

        Comment


          Originally posted by jdjunkie View Post
          The image where Jack looks especially uncomfortable when he's supposed to be ship-tastic is the Always scene from Threads. He looks like he's lost a tenner and found a penny, as we say round these parts. I mean, I know it's a solemn moment, Sam's dad is dying, but he's supposed to be comforting her. I wouldn't be too thrilled if someone offering comfort looked as disinterested as that! Maybe FF or someone more savvy than I can post it and then we can consider further.
          That was the picture I saw! I still maintain it's "tight-jawed and scowling." Or maybe an "afraid-I'm-about-to-be-bitten-by-a-snack" face. Not a happy face at all. Not even a sympathetic face.

          I am not savvy, so not sure how to post it, but here's the link to the picture: http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/dis...hp?pos=-150238

          Originally posted by Aragon101 View Post
          Love is also a bit of a blinding agent, a couple can get together because they care about each other, but then find out that they've got issues that aren't as easily resolved with a hug than they thought. A relationship requires communication, and an openness to talking about their issues. That would have been great to see IF that's what SG-1 was about, which it wasn't.
          This. You're totally right that SG-1 was never really about the romance anyway. For some shows, it's an intrinsic part of the show format or overall show design. For SG-1, it really wasn't. That wasn't the style of show they seemed to be going for.

          But, I am tremendously bothered by those kind of unrealistic portrayals for all of the reasons you list. Relationships require talking about issues. Couples don't miraculously learn to read each others minds and know what the other person thinks/wants/needs at any given moment. And not all problems can be solved with an "I love you," a hug, or a nice dinner out. I live in the real world, and around here, we call that "unrealistic expectations." But that's so often how romance in the media (especially TV, movies, and "romance" novels) is played.

          I'll fully admit that part of my strong aversion to it is based on personal experience. I've been affected by too many marriages-gone-wrong, seen too many friends act like complete idiots because they thought love and marriage would solve all of their problems, and watched too many married people turn bitter over their relationships simply because they didn't know how to talk about issues like mature adults. So I get mad when I see romance in the media portrayed as this wonderful thing that solves all of your problems and makes you magically happy. I get irritated with unrealistic portrayals that don't acknowledge that love and marriage require hard work. It's not magic. It's hard work.

          Which is also part of the reason it bugs me that season 7 seems to imply that Sam can't be happy without romance in her life. She's not happy, so she needs a boyfriend. But then apparently she's not happy with Pete either, so she needs Jack instead. That's just a horrible message to give to girls out there. And yes, girls do pick up on those messages and some live their lives thinking that a guy will make them happy. I'm sure TPTB didn't mean to send such messages, but it's still there, and it's something that I absolutely cannot endorse.

          Originally posted by Aragon101 View Post
          That's the problem, we never got hte impression of a healthy adult romantic relationship between Sam and Sir, we only ever got teenage wishy washy "I knows" and "Always" and other stuff that's just a cop out to actually talking about their feelings. And Jack of course never talks about them AT ALL, but Sam just can't seem to ignore the estrogen in her body! Argh!

          I've boiled it down to this for myself personally, i don't believe they'd have a healthy romantic relationship if they so choose to have one. It'd be jumping the shark and horribly cliche to me. Others are free to disagree but from what i've seen in the show, Jac could s be advertising Preparation H for all i know in what are deemed "shippy' scenes.
          And this! Again, I'm sure TPTB thought that it was more subtle by not making Sam and Jack directly talk out their feelings, just letting it all be "subtext." Except it didn't work that way, because yes, it was a cop out, and because the subtext was so loud (with accompanying theme music and sappy looks) that they might as well have been yelling it from the rooftops.
          Chief of the GGP (Gateworld Grammar Police). Punctuation is your friend. Use it!

          Great happy armies shall be gathered and trained to oppose all who embrace doubt. In the name of Hope, ships shall be built to carry our disciples out amongst the stars, and we will spread Optimism to all the doubters. The power of the Optimi will be felt far and wide, and the pessimists shall become positive-thinkers.
          Hallowed are the Optimi.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Frostfox View Post
            This is a man supposedly looking at a woman he desires beyond all others. I've seen cod fish look happier, battered and fried.

            And this one. He's dying, by the way, and the last thing he really needs is to be confronted about any supposed 'feeling feelings' by his 2IC.
            yep a picture tells the story.

            Yeah, if he's dying you'd think he'd drop the "I'm uncomfortable talking about this" attitude once and for all.

            And in Beneath the Surface, although he seems to have a bit of trouble with words, he's relaxed around Sam and she is with him. I think that's why I don't mind the head on his shoulder scene.

            And in Lost City it really bothered me how Sam shows up apparently wanting a big "let's admit our feelings" scene. As I recall, the words are fine "I should have done it" etc. (put her head in the device)--both she and Daniel as his friends could legitimately feel that way-- but the twitchy behavior is so uncomfortable to watch. It's that Sam suddenly becomes a teenager or a neurotic or something in his presence when otherwise they're normal. I see it as painful and not in a good melodrama way.
            Last edited by jasminaGo; 10 August 2010, 10:35 AM. Reason: removing IMG tags

            Comment


              Originally posted by Khentkawes View Post
              That was the picture I saw! I still maintain it's "tight-jawed and scowling." Or maybe an "afraid-I'm-about-to-be-bitten-by-a-snack" face. Not a happy face at all. Not even a sympathetic face.

              I am not savvy, so not sure how to post it, but here's the link to the picture: http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/dis...hp?pos=-150238
              Oh, I see what you mean, there's a hardness there that doesn't speak of love or sympathy to me, either.
              And, if it's supposed to be love, it's rather breaking with the simple, linear characterisation of a show like SG1. Simple is not meant as a criticism, a TV SF adventure show needs characters to be cyphers, archetypes, easily identifiable, easy to identify with. And that's what the characters were. Complex enough to be interesting and sympathetic and charming but within strict limits. Which is why RDA choosing to play Jack like that is so bizarre, so jarring. It might work in a Chekhov play. Or a book. Or even a TV drama. But in something like SG1, it is very strange.

              Originally posted by Khentkawes View Post
              This. You're totally right that SG-1 was never really about the romance anyway. For some shows, it's an intrinsic part of the show format or overall show design. For SG-1, it really wasn't. That wasn't the style of show they seemed to be going for.

              But, I am tremendously bothered by those kind of unrealistic portrayals for all of the reasons you list. Relationships require talking about issues. Couples don't miraculously learn to read each others minds and know what the other person thinks/wants/needs at any given moment. And not all problems can be solved with an "I love you," a hug, or a nice dinner out. I live in the real world, and around here, we call that "unrealistic expectations." But that's so often how romance in the media (especially TV, movies, and "romance" novels) is played.
              They bother me for the same reasons. I know how hard (and how rewarding) relationships are. To see them simplified like that is a disservice and is a very modern phenomenon, we've had mass media for less than a century.

              Originally posted by Khentkawes View Post
              I'll fully admit that part of my strong aversion to it is based on personal experience. I've been affected by too many marriages-gone-wrong, seen too many friends act like complete idiots because they thought love and marriage would solve all of their problems, and watched too many married people turn bitter over their relationships simply because they didn't know how to talk about issues like mature adults. So I get mad when I see romance in the media portrayed as this wonderful thing that solves all of your problems and makes you magically happy. I get irritated with unrealistic portrayals that don't acknowledge that love and marriage require hard work. It's not magic. It's hard work.
              It's so hard, watching the impending train wrecks. I have one friend I no longer see because I couldn't bear to watch her go into yet another relationship based on her assumptions of what a relationship should be and what she would get out of it, rather than living for the moment and seeing where the relationship led.

              Originally posted by Khentkawes View Post
              Which is also part of the reason it bugs me that season 7 seems to imply that Sam can't be happy without romance in her life. She's not happy, so she needs a boyfriend. But then apparently she's not happy with Pete either, so she needs Jack instead. That's just a horrible message to give to girls out there. And yes, girls do pick up on those messages and some live their lives thinking that a guy will make them happy. I'm sure TPTB didn't mean to send such messages, but it's still there, and it's something that I absolutely cannot endorse.
              She's also going about making goo-goo eyes at Jack while she has a fiancé on the go at the same time. Took SG1 down to the level of a tawdry soap opera and was so out of character for Sam.

              Originally posted by Khentkawes View Post
              And this! Again, I'm sure TPTB thought that it was more subtle by not making Sam and Jack directly talk out their feelings, just letting it all be "subtext." Except it didn't work that way, because yes, it was a cop out, and because the subtext was so loud (with accompanying theme music and sappy looks) that they might as well have been yelling it from the rooftops.
              Any relationship they have to prop up with visual and audio clues (and with the subtlety of a 2 by 4 across the back of the head) every time they want to cue the audience in for a romantic interlude, is doomed to be melodrama rather than realistic emotion.

              Originally posted by jckfan55 View Post
              yep a picture tells the story.

              Yeah, if he's dying you'd think he'd drop the "I'm uncomfortable talking about this" attitude once and for all.

              And in Beneath the Surface, although he seems to have a bit of trouble with words, he's relaxed around Sam and she is with him. I think that's why I don't mind the head on his shoulder scene.

              And in Lost City it really bothered me how Sam shows up apparently wanting a big "let's admit our feelings" scene. As I recall, the words are fine "I should have done it" etc. (put her head in the device)--both she and Daniel as his friends could legitimately feel that way-- but the twitchy behavior is so uncomfortable to watch. It's that Sam suddenly becomes a teenager or a neurotic or something in his presence when otherwise they're normal. I see it as painful and not in a good melodrama way.
              And remember, all the time she's at Jack's in Lost City, she (this strong, faithful, honourable woman we know and love) has a boyfriend who believes in her, loves her, moves his job for her. And by Threads, TPTB think it's a cool thing to show her going to Jack's to continue her insistence on 'talking about it' when she has a fiancé.
              There are words for the sort of women who do things like that.
              They are not words I ever associate with Sam.
              But because it's true love, written in the stars, it's okay for Sam to treat her fiancé like he's disposable, because it's JACK and SAM, that makes it all right. Er, no, sorry, it doesn't.

              FF
              sigpic

              Comment


                Originally posted by Frostfox View Post
                Oh, I see what you mean, there's a hardness there that doesn't speak of love or sympathy to me, either.
                And, if it's supposed to be love, it's rather breaking with the simple, linear characterisation of a show like SG1. Simple is not meant as a criticism, a TV SF adventure show needs characters to be cyphers, archetypes, easily identifiable, easy to identify with. And that's what the characters were. Complex enough to be interesting and sympathetic and charming but within strict limits.
                Well put. And on a related but OT note, perhaps that was one of my problems with SGU. SG1 established the SGC as a certain type of heroic character, and from what I saw of SGU, those people would never have been let into "our" SGC. Doesn't make them bad characters necessarily (perhaps for an unconnected show), but an odd fit into the universe I came to know and love.

                Which is why RDA choosing to play Jack like that is so bizarre, so jarring. It might work in a Chekhov play. Or a book. Or even a TV drama. But in something like SG1, it is very strange.
                RDA copes with S/J by pretending he's doing a Chekhov play.
                Last edited by jckfan55; 11 August 2010, 08:44 AM. Reason: change wording; foresees visions of Ensign Chekov

                Comment


                  Originally posted by jckfan55 View Post
                  Well put. And on a related but OT note, perhaps that was one of my problems with SGU. SG1 established the SGC as a certain type of heroic character, and from what I saw of SGU, those people would never have been let into "our" SGC. Doesn't make them bad characters necessarily (perhaps for an unconnected show), but an odd fit into the universe I came to know and love.
                  Could well be, the heroic archetype is very comforting, safe, fun to watch. SG1 is marvelous escapism, it doesn't need to address the human condition, it was immensely successful in what it did do well.


                  Originally posted by jckfan55 View Post
                  RDA copes with S/J by pretending he's doing a Chekhov play.
                  Well, he certainly didn't sell Sam and Jack as a believable couple, did he?

                  I wonder if he was asked (again) about Sam and Jack at the Con last weekend? I haven't read any detailed reports of Q&A sessions, has anyone else?

                  FF
                  Last edited by Frostfox; 11 August 2010, 11:54 AM. Reason: too many nox, as per usual
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                    I wonder what would happen if i were to meet RDA and give him an "Anti-Ship" picture to sign.

                    Something like Sam and Jack looking at each other and grimacing, with the banner "They want use to do WHAT? We're just friends!" or something.

                    Originally posted by Apostle's Message Redux
                    Shepard understood. Given the situation, he wasn't sure that exposing the planet to this kind of secret was smart. Miranda had regaled him with stories of how horrible 20th century Earth sounded in her history lessons and it made him leery. "I agree, god knows what would happen if Grunt got loose."

                    Joker snorted and muttered loudly. "Run! It's The Incredible Hulk! Kill it with fire!"
                    Read the story ---- Apostle's Message Redux, ME/SG Crossover

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Frostfox View Post
                      I wonder if he was asked (again) about Sam and Jack at the Con last weekend? I haven't read any detailed reports of Q&A sessions, has anyone else?

                      FF
                      He was (I imagine he's as tired of that as MS is of the puff and ruffle nonsense), and at first he apologized and said no they weren't together, then he said yes they were, and finally he seemed to decide to let the fans decide for themselves.
                      Originally posted by Callista
                      Ahhh! Ashizuri can see into the future!!
                      Originally posted by HPMom
                      She saw the candle light as many things.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Khentkawes View Post
                        That was the picture I saw! I still maintain it's "tight-jawed and scowling." Or maybe an "afraid-I'm-about-to-be-bitten-by-a-snack" face. Not a happy face at all. Not even a sympathetic face.

                        I am not savvy, so not sure how to post it, but here's the link to the picture: http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/dis...hp?pos=-150238
                        O'Neill: Carter ...

                        Carter: Sir?

                        O'Neill: I gotta tell you ...

                        Carter: I know.

                        O'Neill: No, Carter. You really don't.

                        Carter: It's okay, sir, Really. You don't have to say ...

                        O'Neill: I didn't have my prune juice this morning.

                        Carter: Oh, that's ...

                        O'Neill: Yeah.

                        Carter: I'll just ...

                        O'Neill: Yeah. I'll ...

                        ::tumbleweed blows across the set::

                        Originally posted by jckfan55 View Post
                        And in Lost City it really bothered me how Sam shows up apparently wanting a big "let's admit our feelings" scene. As I recall, the words are fine "I should have done it" etc. (put her head in the device)--both she and Daniel as his friends could legitimately feel that way-- but the twitchy behavior is so uncomfortable to watch. It's that Sam suddenly becomes a teenager or a neurotic or something in his presence when otherwise they're normal. I see it as painful and not in a good melodrama way.
                        Painful, embarrassing, badly written. The only scene more excruciating to watch is the barbecue scene in Threads. You know, I love angst, I really do. I read a lot and I write it too. But there's a very fine line between angst and melodrama, between a scene hitting you where you live and making you want to lose your lunch. Both these scenes fall into the latter upchucking category.

                        Originally posted by jckfan55 View Post
                        RDA copes with S/J by pretending he's doing a Chekhov play.
                        I totally love you for this. That is how I will get through all those scenes from now on. Hurrah!

                        Originally posted by Ashizuri View Post
                        He was (I imagine he's as tired of that as MS is of the puff and ruffle nonsense), and at first he apologized and said no they weren't together, then he said yes they were, and finally he seemed to decide to let the fans decide for themselves.
                        RDA is a wise man indeed. The writers decided to leave it that way, too. I can live with that. Thought the man looked yummy in the con pix. And Michael has done the puff and ruffle and wounded lamb for the last time, I think. It always made me smile and it went down a storm at cons, but you can only do it so many times, I would think. (I'm glad I've seen it "live!") And yes I'm sure RDA is tired of those questions. They are getting old ... Thanks for filling us in on the answer.

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                          Originally posted by Aragon101 View Post
                          I wonder what would happen if I were to meet RDA and give him an "Anti-Ship" picture to sign.

                          Something like Sam and Jack looking at each other and grimacing, with the banner "They want use to do WHAT? We're just friends!" or something.

                          But I just wouldn't, 'cos being against Sam/Jack, it's a fan thing, if you know what I mean, the actors don't care much either way, and even if they did, they don't write the scripts and I don't care to involve them in fannish squabbling over minutiae.

                          I wouldn't lobby TPTB either, it's their show, not my place to write it for them, even if I think Sam/Jack is a big miss-step and damaging to the characters and the show, it's their error to make, not mine.

                          Does that make sense? I'd no more lobby for slash on the show than harass them over 'ship. It's a TV show, they are the show runners, I neither have nor want the power to change what they make, I'm a fan.

                          Originally posted by Ashizuri View Post
                          He was (I imagine he's as tired of that as MS is of the puff and ruffle nonsense), and at first he apologized and said no they weren't together, then he said yes they were, and finally he seemed to decide to let the fans decide for themselves.
                          Thanks for that. Looks like everyone had a fun time, RDA is looking good.
                          Reminds me, I'm supposed to be going to the Terry Pratchett convention at the end of the month, just for the day, need to get my act together Real Soon Now…

                          Originally posted by jdjunkie View Post
                          O'Neill: Carter ...

                          Carter: Sir?

                          O'Neill: I gotta tell you ...

                          Carter: I know.

                          O'Neill: No, Carter. You really don't.

                          Carter: It's okay, sir, Really. You don't have to say ...

                          O'Neill: I didn't have my prune juice this morning.

                          Carter: Oh, that's ...

                          O'Neill: Yeah.

                          Carter: I'll just ...

                          O'Neill: Yeah. I'll ...

                          ::tumbleweed blows across the set::



                          Painful, embarrassing, badly written. The only scene more excruciating to watch is the barbecue scene in Threads. You know, I love angst, I really do. I read a lot and I write it too. But there's a very fine line between angst and melodrama, between a scene hitting you where you live and making you want to lose your lunch. Both these scenes fall into the latter upchucking category.
                          You know my opinion on the execrably hideous BBQ scene in Threads, shudder. No way to treat your lead actress/character, awful to watch her sacrifice all Sam’s self respect on the altar of some unconvincing attempt at a romance.

                          Originally posted by jdjunkie View Post

                          I totally love you for this. That is how I will get through all those scenes from now on. Hurrah!
                          Nods, it’s so my canon from now on, if real life can have canon, oh, you know what I mean.

                          Originally posted by jdjunkie View Post
                          RDA is a wise man indeed. The writers decided to leave it that way, too. I can live with that. Thought the man looked yummy in the con pix. And Michael has done the puff and ruffle and wounded lamb for the last time, I think. It always made me smile and it went down a storm at cons, but you can only do it so many times, I would think. (I'm glad I've seen it "live!") And yes I'm sure RDA is tired of those questions. They are getting old ... Thanks for filling us in on the answer.
                          And SG1 is over, he’s doing new shows now, good on him, so Jack is really old news for RDA. He never really kept abreast of the character when he was playing Jack, I doubt RDA gives any thought to him now. And certainly not to Sam and Jack.

                          FF
                          sigpic

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                            Originally posted by jdjunkie View Post
                            Painful, embarrassing, badly written. The only scene more excruciating to watch is the barbecue scene in Threads. You know, I love angst, I really do. I read a lot and I write it too. But there's a very fine line between angst and melodrama, between a scene hitting you where you live and making you want to lose your lunch. Both these scenes fall into the latter upchucking category.
                            Quoted for truth.

                            If there were two things I could teach sci-fi TV writers as a group, just two things, it would be the definition of "subtle writing" and how that looks in an actual story, and how to avoid crossing that all-important line between angst/drama and melodrama. It's a significant line. An important line. A line that should be spray-painted neon orange with flashing lights saying "DO NOT CROSS!!!" Some writers (and by no means am I only referring to the SG writers here, I could name several others) dance all over the line like they have no concept that it even exists. Respect the line, people! Stay on the correct side of the line!
                            Chief of the GGP (Gateworld Grammar Police). Punctuation is your friend. Use it!

                            Great happy armies shall be gathered and trained to oppose all who embrace doubt. In the name of Hope, ships shall be built to carry our disciples out amongst the stars, and we will spread Optimism to all the doubters. The power of the Optimi will be felt far and wide, and the pessimists shall become positive-thinkers.
                            Hallowed are the Optimi.

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                              Originally posted by Frostfox View Post
                              But I just wouldn't, 'cos being against Sam/Jack, it's a fan thing, if you know what I mean, the actors don't care much either way, and even if they did, they don't write the scripts and I don't care to involve them in fannish squabbling over minutiae.

                              I wouldn't lobby TPTB either, it's their show, not my place to write it for them, even if I think Sam/Jack is a big miss-step and damaging to the characters and the show, it's their error to make, not mine.

                              Does that make sense? I'd no more lobby for slash on the show than harass them over 'ship. It's a TV show, they are the show runners, I neither have nor want the power to change what they make, I'm a fan.
                              Given what i've heard at Cons what RDA says about the ship, i actually think he'd give me one of those wry Jack smiles

                              That's teh only reason, i want to see his reaction to someone being anti rather than pro given that he's often asked about the latter at Cons. It has nothing to do with what i actually want to see on screen or in an SG-1 story, That's what fanfic is for
                              Originally posted by Apostle's Message Redux
                              Shepard understood. Given the situation, he wasn't sure that exposing the planet to this kind of secret was smart. Miranda had regaled him with stories of how horrible 20th century Earth sounded in her history lessons and it made him leery. "I agree, god knows what would happen if Grunt got loose."

                              Joker snorted and muttered loudly. "Run! It's The Incredible Hulk! Kill it with fire!"
                              Read the story ---- Apostle's Message Redux, ME/SG Crossover

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                                Originally posted by Frostfox View Post
                                But I just wouldn't, 'cos being against Sam/Jack, it's a fan thing, if you know what I mean, the actors don't care much either way, and even if they did, they don't write the scripts and I don't care to involve them in fannish squabbling over minutiae.
                                I completely agree with you, and the impression that I got from him was that while he'd possibly sign something that was poking fun at himself, anything that could in any way come across to be making fun of other fans he'd refuse. I think he'd sign "pro" anything and turn anything "anti" away, not necessarily because he agrees or disagrees but because he loves all his fans and wouldn't want to alienate any of them. If that makes any sense.

                                Thanks for that. Looks like everyone had a fun time, RDA is looking good.
                                Very good indeed, although he argues with you when you compliment him.
                                Originally posted by Callista
                                Ahhh! Ashizuri can see into the future!!
                                Originally posted by HPMom
                                She saw the candle light as many things.

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