Jack O'Neill/ Sam Carter - Part of a team, not a ship

[Dani347]

Could I hazard a guess that neither of you are a big fan of My Fair Lady?

The music is pretty

[Torley]

OT: Figure skater Sasha Cohen recently did a routine to My Fair Lady

http://www.sashacohen.com/fairlady.shtml

[darklilac]

I think the problem is that TPTB see the anti shippers discussions or complaining as a positive thing.
They think all this talking is just pushing the JS ship/the show(same thing now).
They don't realize how bad the problem is and how many fans are leaving the show.
And when they will it will be too late.

[ShadowMaat]

I think the problem is that TPTB see the anti shippers discussions or complaining as a positive thing.
They think all this talking is just pushing the JS ship/the show(same thing now).
They don't realize how bad the problem is and how many fans are leaving the show.
And when they will it will be too late.

I don't think they see it as positive, I think they just don't give a rat's @ss what anti-shippers think... either that or it makes them MORE determined to shive ship down our throats.

Much as it grieves me to say so, I think that anti-shippers are in the minority. Legions of Daniel fans "left" the show when Shanks left and the show went on to have stellar ratings and get renewed and everything. If legions of anti-shippers left, I don't think it would have much of an impact.

However, that's based on the assumption that only anti-shippers are leaving and that the only reason they're leaving is because of the ship. Speaking as someone who hates ship and has "left" the show, I can say that my personal reasons for not watching are only partly related to the blatant shippiness. Most of it has to do with what I see as crappy writing. Ship is not, in my opinion, the only thing "wrong" with the show.

I think that more people are likely to stop watching because Stargate as a whole isn't as enticing as it was a few years ago rather than leaving solely because of ship.

Do I think that even the disenfranchised deserters will make a difference? Sadly, no. I think Stargate will bull ahead no matter what. X-Files lasted for nine seasons even though a lot of people- including some of the actors- felt that the last few seasons (at least) were utter garbage. I can see the same thing happening with Stargate.

There will always be fans who will watch the show no matter what and they will always be the ones in majority. What wethink, what we want, how we feel about things doesn't matter: as long as the majority keeps tuning in, things are going to continue exactly the way they've been going.

Which isn't entirely wrong. TPTB shouldn't kowtow to every fangroup and minor faction, but I do think that they should remain true to the spirit of the show that THEY created and in my humble opinion, they've failed to do that. THAT is why I stopped watching. The blatant ship is just the icing on the rat poison.

[KorbenDirewolf]

There will always be fans who will watch the show no matter what and they will always be the ones in majority. What wethink, what we want, how we feel about things doesn't matter: as long as the majority keeps tuning in, things are going to continue exactly the way they've been going.

Which isn't entirely wrong. TPTB shouldn't kowtow to every fangroup and minor faction, but I do think that they should remain true to the spirit of the show that THEY created and in my humble opinion, they've failed to do that. THAT is why I stopped watching. The blatant ship is just the icing on the rat poison.

Icing on the rat poison... Ya know, that's beginning to be more like how I feel about this whole thing with Carter and O'Niell. While I haven't yet "left", I am seriously considering it. Depending on how that "New Order" actully come about. I think, mostly the problem with season 7 and the overdose of ship can be mostly tied to one thing: the show runner from the previous seasons was off doing something else for that season. I think that it could be that season 7 is how several of the other staff members wanted the whole series, or at least from "Divide and Conquer", to play out. But with the show runner there he wouldn't allow the deal, but with him gone... Of course, I have nothing to prove any of that. Its just my opinion and speculation.

[Madeleine]

I saw My Fair Lady and Pygmalion more than fifteen years ago. I wouldn't have made the connection with Jack / Sam ship at all, left to my own devices.

[darklilac]

I don't think they see it as positive, I think they just don't give a rat's @ss what anti-shippers think... either that or it makes them MORE determined to shive ship down our throats.

Much as it grieves me to say so, I think that anti-shippers are in the minority. Legions of Daniel fans "left" the show when Shanks left and the show went on to have stellar ratings and get renewed and everything. If legions of anti-shippers left, I don't think it would have much of an impact.

However, that's based on the assumption that only anti-shippers are leaving and that the only reason they're leaving is because of the ship. Speaking as someone who hates ship and has "left" the show, I can say that my personal reasons for not watching are only partly related to the blatant shippiness. Most of it has to do with what I see as crappy writing. Ship is not, in my opinion, the only thing "wrong" with the show.

That TPTB don't give a rat a$$ about non JS shippers fans, that's true.
I agree with that.
However when I say non JS shippers, I mean all the others.
Fans that hate the JS ship, fans that don't give a da%n about it, fans that love Teal'c, Daniel, Thor and so on.
So when I say that many fans are leaving the show, I mean not only anti JS shippers.
Because you're right, the JS ship is not the only problem of the show.
But it's one of the main problems, because it's always there, ruining almost every episode, and making the show all about Sam and Jack.
So even if some fans didn't mind if Sam loved Jack in the past, when it was just a mention in an episode or two in 6 years, now they watch a show where the main plot has become the JS journey of love.
And I say this after reading the spoilers and the AT interviews for season 8.

[Ali888]

[QUOTE=ShadowMaat]

"Much as it grieves me to say so, I think that anti-shippers are in the minority. Legions of Daniel fans "left" the show when Shanks left and the show went on to have stellar ratings and get renewed and everything. If legions of anti-shippers left, I don't think it would have much of an impact."

Yes, the S6 ratings were good enough for the show to be renewed for S7. But, and this is a big but, MS was brought back for S7 and the announcement of his return was made the day after the announcement that there would be a S7. This suggests to me that the two things are connected and that TPTB, whether at Bridge Studios, MGM or the Sci-Fi channel, thought that it was important that MS/DJ came back.

In any case, not all fans of MS/DJ stopped watching the show in S6, plenty of them decided to give the season a chance. I suspect that many of them wouldn't have watched S7 had it contained JQ rather than DJ but that's just the impression *I* get from things I've heard and read.

I have no idea what the ratings for S8 will be, either when it premieres on Sci-Fi or is shown in syndication. I personally feel that a more accurate measure of any show's popularity is its ratings on repeated viewings, not to mention the sale of DVDs. I have every DVD from the first three years of the show, three or four from S4 and none at all from S5 onwards. In fact there are only about a dozen episodes from Seasons 4-7 that I would like to have on DVD and I'm not prepared to spend my money on buying three episodes I dislike, or am indifferent to. in order to get one good episode. That's what my video recorder is for, although I wish there was a way of removing adverts when I record things whilst out of the house!

The only S8 episode which I will make a point of watching is the one written by CJ. I might watch others, if they come highly recommended by people whose opinion I trust.

Ali P

[Elwe Singollo]

So Ali888, where is ur comment?

[Ali888]

So Ali888, where is ur comment?

I'm sorry, I don't understand.

Ali P

[ShadowMaat]

So Ali888, where is ur comment?

Ali hasn't mastered the art of quote /quote yet.

Yes, the S6 ratings were good enough for the show to be renewed for S7. But, and this is a big but, MS was brought back for S7 and the announcement of his return was made the day after the announcement that there would be a S7. This suggests to me that the two things are connected and that TPTB, whether at Bridge Studios, MGM or the Sci-Fi channel, thought that it was important that MS/DJ came back.

My point was merely that the show CAN survive even if a seemingly large faction of fans decide to leave. I'm not going to get into a discussion about the "value" of various characters or my opinions on the intelligence of certain decisions that were made in that regard because it is off topic.

If all of the anti-shippers got up and left, I think the show would plug along quite happily without us. Ratings and money, as you said, are what's important: quality of plots, integrity of characterization, and cohesion of the over-all story arcs seem, to me, to matter very little these days and that is especially true (if we can get full back to the subject) in the matter of Sam/Jack ship.

I get the feeling that the producers don't care anymore. They wanna screw around and do whatever pleases them regardless of whether it's "good" for the plot or "true" to the characters- they're gonna do whatever they want to and f*** anyone who doesn't like it. That's my impression.

[Dani347]

I get the feeling that the producers don't care anymore. They wanna screw around and do whatever pleases them regardless of whether it's "good" for the plot or "true" to the characters- they're gonna do whatever they want to and f*** anyone who doesn't like it. That's my impression.

And, unfortunately, I agree.

[Elwe Singollo]

Well, i'm not really good on putting topics back on track, so i'm just going to continue on what you were saying about your impression on the producers screwing around the characters and f*** whoever doesn't like it, or something.

In the post a few scrolls up, it talks about how the departure of MS/DJ didn't make the show have low ratings and such, and that it was really successful, and how if Jack leaves the show, the show can still go on with good ratings, and blah... Well since Jack has been gone/absent alot, and the ratings are still consistant from last year, which in other words, 'still good'. And with all these 'shippy' scenes that i've heard and seen for myself, doesn't that make the 'anti sam/jack ship' viewers the minority? By saying that the 'anti sam/jack ship' are the minority means that the producers aren't really caring, so yes, they are practically f***king whoever doesn't like it, which are the minority, and trying their hardest (ok maybe not their hardest) to please the majority. Your wondering (or some of you) why i'm using all these words just to say that i agree partially with what ShadowMaat has said, but i'm trying to explain it so that i can be understood, and i couldn't have done that with so little words

Hopefully thats insightful, well im not sure if its biased, so... ok i'm going to stop talking..

[Elwe Singollo]

So Ali888, where is ur comment?

I'm sorry, I don't understand.

Ali P

Sorry i didn't know where u put ur comment in ur post, i was confused

[Madeleine]

The bit inside inverted commas is Shadow's, the bit that follows is Ali's.