Jack O'Neill/ Sam Carter - Part of a team, not a ship

[Callista]

^That is too funny!

But I see I have to live on the moon.

I do have a new catch-phrase for myself, though: Stop the multishipper highway! I want to get off!!!

[Killdeer]

Via SG1 Debrief, scroll down to the SG1 map - http://surreallis.livejournal.com/295390.html

Which led back to this fabulous, fabulous post - http://rigel-7.livejournal.com/79032.html do read the comments (and follow the safari link...)

And this - http://rigel-7.livejournal.com/79032...499640#t499640

Love our fandom and how it doesn't take itself too seriously.

FF

Oh hilarious. I'll have to add those to my memories.

Although I do think they underplay a bit how big the gen fandom is for both SG-1 and SGA. It's quite a bit larger than most shows I know of.

[discodiva]

Via SG1 Debrief, scroll down to the SG1 map - http://surreallis.livejournal.com/295390.html

Which led back to this fabulous, fabulous post - http://rigel-7.livejournal.com/79032.html do read the comments (and follow the safari link...)

And this - http://rigel-7.livejournal.com/79032...499640#t499640

Love our fandom and how it doesn't take itself too seriously.

FF

Fabulous stuff!.....I <3 the LJ Fandom.....


Deeds xx

[Frostfox]

^That is too funny!

But I see I have to live on the moon.

I do have a new catch-phrase for myself, though: Stop the multishipper highway! I want to get off!!!

Aw, honey, I'll throw you a rope.

Oh hilarious. I'll have to add those to my memories.

Although I do think they underplay a bit how big the gen fandom is for both SG-1 and SGA. It's quite a bit larger than most shows I know of.

It's very hard to get a true overview of the whole of a fandom, we are so disparate and so spread about teh interwebs and beyond.

Fabulous stuff!.....I <3 the LJ Fandom.....


Deeds xx

I don't think I'd still be in SG1 fandom if it wasn't for Live Journal and some of the communities there.

FF

[jdjunkie]

Ah, but you must see the light! All fans must! Or Tinkerbell bites the dust. Because if one fan, one viewer, is left not believing in the glory of Sam loves Jack, then it's not real. So TPTB will get the big stick out one last time to beat us over the head with.FF

Oh, dear. Poor little Tink's days are numbered then.

Seriously. They could have a Gateramp wedding, a honeymoon in Cimmeria, christening parties for little Grace and Danny Carter-O'Neill (oh, quick, brain bleach ... quick!) and they STILL wouldn't make me buy this pairing.

I saw more romantic chemistry between Sam and Barrett, or Sam and Pete, or Jack and Kerry than I ever did between Jack and Sam. Zilch. Nada.

I have a theory which will become a proof if this so-called confirmation comes to pass, ie, the reason this confirmation appears to be wanted so badly. However, I'm happy to say that there is nothing my textually and subtextually-astute little brain can't work around.

Tink is toast.

[Frostfox]

Oh, dear. Poor little Tink's days are numbered then.

Seriously. They could have a Gateramp wedding, a honeymoon in Cimmeria, christening parties for little Grace and Danny Carter-O'Neill (oh, quick, brain bleach ... quick!) and they STILL wouldn't make me buy this pairing.

I saw more romantic chemistry between Sam and Barrett, or Sam and Pete, or Jack and Kerry than I ever did between Jack and Sam. Zilch. Nada.

I have a theory which will become a proof if this so-called confirmation comes to pass, ie, the reason this confirmation appears to be wanted so badly. However, I'm happy to say that there is nothing my textually and subtextually-astute little brain can't work around.

Tink is toast.

Can still think of no good S/J scene which in anyway enhances SG1.

Random, off the top of my head -
Heroes - had the hug been about losing Janet and Cassie losing another mum, that would have been a plus, showing Sam's compassion and the losses endured by these friends.
As it was shot, it was all about Sam and Sir, therefore, a minus, it's all about not losing Jack.

Threads - tearful hand clutching. Had it all been about Sam's grief at losing her dad, a plus for Jack being there for her.
As it was shot, a negative, used as an excuse to get two USAF officers to break the frat regs and to show how speshul and romantic their love is (excuse me, I feel sick). A lot of the romantic feel is generated from how the scenes are shot, the music, the lighting. I'm sure on paper, in the script, they were less nauseating.

Lost City - Sam going to visit Jack when he's dying. Had it had been about the real bonds between these people, would have been nothing but positive, but it was so stilted and awkward and they played Sam so cruel for bringing Sara into it. Big negative.

There are plenty of other examples, these were just the first three to pop into my head.
No one has ever pointed out one single scene of S/J romance which enhances the SG1 team, it always has to be contrived, solitary, melodromatic and therefore takes away from the whole rather than adding to it.

FF

[jckfan55]

Can still think of no good S/J scene which in anyway enhances SG1.

Random, off the top of my head -
Heroes - had the hug been about losing Janet and Cassie losing another mum, that would have been a plus, showing Sam's compassion and the losses endured by these friends.
As it was shot, it was all about Sam and Sir, therefore, a minus, it's all about not losing Jack.

Yep. I haven't watched this in a long time b/c I hate that they killed Janet and I hate this scene. But, I seem to recall watching first watching the scene and thinking that was the direction it was going. I can totally see Sam getting teary and needing a hug due to the weight of almost losing Jack, losing Janet and dealing w/ Cassie. And Jack needing a hug too. But then it became much more of an S/J scene.

[jckfan55]

Oh and while we're talking about hugs--what about Death Knell? i think they pulled off the head on his shoulder pretty well, but even AT was afraid it was too much *the girl* needing a hug from the guy. But she decided it could be any soldier comforting any other one after what happened. Ok. But you notice it was Jack and not Teal'c who gave her his shoulder. To please the shippers?

[discodiva]

Yep. I haven't watched this in a long time b/c I hate that they killed Janet and I hate this scene. But, I seem to recall watching first watching the scene and thinking that was the direction it was going. I can totally see Sam getting teary and needing a hug due to the weight of almost losing Jack, losing Janet and dealing w/ Cassie. And Jack needing a hug too. But then it became much more of an S/J scene.

Oh and while we're talking about hugs--what about Death Knell? i think they pulled off the head on his shoulder pretty well, but even AT was afraid it was too much *the girl* needing a hug from the guy. But she decided it could be any soldier comforting any other one after what happened. Ok. But you notice it was Jack and not Teal'c who gave her his shoulder. To please the shippers?

I saw both of these episodes the week before last......am still recovering from the effects of the large amount of brain bleach I needed to get myself back to normal.........I only realised on this umpteenth TV re-showing of S7 how much of it was a complete crock!....


Deeds xx

[Frostfox]

Yep. I haven't watched this in a long time b/c I hate that they killed Janet and I hate this scene. But, I seem to recall watching first watching the scene and thinking that was the direction it was going. I can totally see Sam getting teary and needing a hug due to the weight of almost losing Jack, losing Janet and dealing w/ Cassie. And Jack needing a hug too. But then it became much more of an S/J scene.

If they had played it straight, no sugary music, no soft focus lip trembles, purely warriors in arms, the S/J fans would have still seen it as romantic and the rest of fandom wouldn't hate the implications of Sam 'n Sir overshadowing losing our Janet.

Oh and while we're talking about hugs--what about Death Knell? i think they pulled off the head on his shoulder pretty well, but even AT was afraid it was too much *the girl* needing a hug from the guy. But she decided it could be any soldier comforting any other one after what happened. Ok. But you notice it was Jack and not Teal'c who gave her his shoulder. To please the shippers?

I was much more annoyed about Sam needing to be rescued by the men. I wanted her to be the one to kill the supersoldier.

Of course it had to be Jack to hug her, silly woman, we know that a. showing Sam with anyone else shows up how little chemistry S/J have and b. if Teal'c had hugged her, Jack would have had to kill him. Only Jack may touch her blessed beauty, obviously, or Tink get's the chop.

FF

[Killdeer]

Oh and while we're talking about hugs--what about Death Knell? i think they pulled off the head on his shoulder pretty well, but even AT was afraid it was too much *the girl* needing a hug from the guy. But she decided it could be any soldier comforting any other one after what happened. Ok. But you notice it was Jack and not Teal'c who gave her his shoulder. To please the shippers?

You know, I literally cannot remember most of this episode. I don't know why - it's just a complete blank to me.

But I do remember that scene.

I think if it'd happened back in S1 or thereabouts, I probably would have not thought much of it, because of the tone of those seasons was very different. Placed where it was......I was not thrilled with it. It seemed like a very deliberately placed shippy moment.

[Frostfox]

Oh and while we're talking about hugs--what about Death Knell? i think they pulled off the head on his shoulder pretty well, but even AT was afraid it was too much *the girl* needing a hug from the guy. But she decided it could be any soldier comforting any other one after what happened. Ok. But you notice it was Jack and not Teal'c who gave her his shoulder. To please the shippers?

The problem with the hug isn't the S/J relationship for me, it's that I really, really didn't want Sam to degenerate into The Girl, head, lovingly on big strong man's shoulder.
I didn't want an über feminist, emotionless warrior drone but the writers were not skillful enough to strike a happy balance so in later seasons she came over weak and needy and The Girl, what Amanda had always resisted her character from being. Very sad.

And I blame it on the writing. I will not think that the woman who helped to bring Cassie up, the woman who was prepared to be blown sky high with her, would dismiss her as 'One tough kid' in favour of her boss' arms. That is not Sam.

FF

[Frostfox]

Oh and while we're talking about hugs--what about Death Knell? i think they pulled off the head on his shoulder pretty well, but even AT was afraid it was too much *the girl* needing a hug from the guy. But she decided it could be any soldier comforting any other one after what happened. Ok. But you notice it was Jack and not Teal'c who gave her his shoulder. To please the shippers?

You know, I literally cannot remember most of this episode. I don't know why - it's just a complete blank to me.

But I do remember that scene.

I think if it'd happened back in S1 or thereabouts, I probably would have not thought much of it, because of the tone of those seasons was very different. Placed where it was......I was not thrilled with it. It seemed like a very deliberately placed shippy moment.

Most of the episode is good, Sam vs Supersoldier.
Amanda makes her gritty and determined, you know how she gives her all, and there is lots of caring shown by her team and her Dad.

Then she fails to kill the drone and has to be saved by Teal'c and Jack, right at the end. I would rather Sam had done the kill and the men had come across her once the job had been done.

Jack hugging her? See, if I could see Jack doing that for any member of his team, then it frets me less. And I could see him doing it for Daniel (and, possibly Teal'c, if Teal'c would let him ) so it didn't bother me, it wasn't, if I recall, shot with that silly syrupy music and soft focus.

FF

[jdjunkie]

Yep. I haven't watched this in a long time b/c I hate that they killed Janet and I hate this scene. But, I seem to recall watching first watching the scene and thinking that was the direction it was going. I can totally see Sam getting teary and needing a hug due to the weight of almost losing Jack, losing Janet and dealing w/ Cassie. And Jack needing a hug too. But then it became much more of an S/J scene.

Oh, no, no, noooooo. Don't get me started ... Too late. I've started.

I think I've said this before (this ep does get my goat somewhat). I have no problem with Sam, or Jack for that matter, getting some comfort. What happened was horrific. BUT why was the scene set in a private room? Why weren't they in the infirmary as they have been every other time one of them has been injured? This instance is no different. Yet, they have them alone, hugging.

What are we supposed to infer from that? That this is speshul. I can buy a quick, "It's OK, we'll all get through this together"-type hug in the infirmary. Not in that room. We were meant to think only one thing. By closeting them away, it also makes it seem as though the hug had to be hidden away that it was clandestine, not fitting, as if TPTB knew it wasn't right. Again ... what are we supposed to think?

Eugh and bleugh and anything else that rhymes with, um, ugh.

The Death Knell hug, OTOH, I had no problem with, because, as FF and AT said, Jack would have offered a shoulder to any of his team. And Jack didn't exactly hug her to him, just rested his arm across her shoulder and looked his usual distracted, prune-faced self. (I love Jack, btw, honest!)

Boy, that's a lot of talk about hugs.

I like hugs.

I like the Spacemonkey hug best of all.

[Frostfox]

Oh, no, no, noooooo. Don't get me started ... Too late. I've started.

I think I've said this before (this ep does get my goat somewhat). I have no problem with Sam, or Jack for that matter, getting some comfort. What happened was horrific. BUT why was the scene set in a private room? Why weren't they in the infirmary as they have been every other time one of them has been injured? This instance is no different. Yet, they have them alone, hugging.

What are we supposed to infer from that? That this is speshul. I can buy a quick, "It's OK, we'll all get through this together"-type hug in the infirmary. Not in that room. We were meant to think only one thing. By closeting them away, it also makes it seem as though the hug had to be hidden away that it was clandestine, not fitting, as if TPTB knew it wasn't right. Again ... what are we supposed to think?

Eugh and bleugh and anything else that rhymes with, um, ugh.

The Death Knell hug, OTOH, I had no problem with, because, as FF and AT said, Jack would have offered a shoulder to any of his team. And Jack didn't exactly hug her to him, just rested his arm across her shoulder and looked his usual distracted, prune-faced self. (I love Jack, btw, honest!)

Boy, that's a lot of talk about hugs.

I like hugs.

I like the Spacemonkey hug best of all.

We all have our hotspots. Mine is Twinset and pearls Sam crashing Jack and his girlfriend's BBQ in Threads.

But you have nailed why the hug in Heroes is so wrong.
It's not the simple act of giving a co-worker some much needed comfort, it's the way it's shot, the music, the private room. I'm sure it didn't seem so terrible in black and white when read in a script, but as it was shown, it was appalling, absolute character assassination. And if you know you can only ever show emotion to someone else behind closed doors because it's wrong in some way, what kind of relationship can be built on such deceitful foundations? A relationship you can't share with even your close friends and family? Not even slightly healthy.

It's the emphasis from TPTB which make it so wrong and so destructive of Sam and Jack's honourable characters, particularly coupled with the 'Tough kid' dismissal of Cassie.
And I hate being made to feel that way about the characters.

Contrast it to Jack giving Sam comfort in Fire and Water; where it's clearly about the team and the team's losses, not about two of the characters carrying on.

It's scenes like the Heroes hug which means I will never, ever get to enjoy Sam and Jack showing affection for each other ever again. And that's the fault of the showrunners, not the fans and not the characters.

FF