Jack O'Neill/ Sam Carter - Part of a team, not a ship

[DSG1]

Warning: this post may contain random smilie usage.



True, it is an idea that circulates among fans without much evidence from the show. I think it's just the assumption that Jack is miserable in Washington and can't wait to retire so he can play house with Sam... I guess that's what bothers me. Because, as I said, that's not a version of Jack that I recognize. But you're right. That's not really in the show, just a fanon idea... and that doesn't even mean I think that most shippers think that way... it's just an impression I've gotten sometimes. *shrug* I'll stop digging myself into this hole now.



Eeek! Run away, Jack, run away!







That's actually a good point. I can live with that interpretation.



Glad to hear! Sounds like you had a productive (and fun) time.
My homework is... uh... kinda boring to most people At this exact moment, I'm supposed to be reading/translating a couple of Middle English texts, and studying Middle English dialects. It's, uh, hard. The worst part? I'm doing this voluntarily. *facepalm* Ah, well, time to return to the battle of the books.



Actually, that hadn't occurred to me, but now that you mention it... that probably wasn't a smart move. Yeah, the "my people" line always amused me.



Too true. I think RDA's acting has been a bit, ah, inconsistent over the years, which has led to some people underestimating him. But he has proven that he can be quite phenomenal, and he's certainly very talented.



ITA.

"Supposed to be about" is subjective, I guess. So fans may differ on what they think Stargate is supposed to be about. But I watched it for the team episodes and team dynamic (though some adventure, humor, mythology, and character development never hurt either ).

Oh, and "ditto" in regards to The Quest. Love it. Even before decking him, Sam snips at Ba'al. I love when she tells him and Adria: "oh why don't you two just get a room?!"

I always thought it was about the Gate? lol

The Quest is my ultimate fave ep. For many reasons. It reminded me of the first season of SG1.

I love the 'get a room bit' and look on Carter's face. lol.
The reaction they give Teal'c when he says they work well together lmao.

I miss the banter they had as a 'team'.

[Khentkawes]

I always thought it was about the Gate? lol

ROTFL! Oh, yes, how could I forget. Silly me.

So we now have the definitive answer. Stargate is about the Gate.

And stars. Don't forget the stars.

[Frostfox]

Thanks, FrostFox

By 'most', I'm meaning 99%. It wasn't meant as a backhanded compliment.

[mod removed]

All the problems with S/J stem from the TPTB, not the fans.
Besides, online fans are not as influential as they would like to think, that goes for all of fandom, not just S/J fans.

I lurk in many parts of the SG1 forums, not just with those who agree with me or share my particular interests but more of my time online is spent on LJ and more adult areas.

FF

[VSS]

By 'most', I'm meaning 99%.



All the problems with S/J stem from the TPTB, not the fans.
Besides, online fans are not as influential as they would like to think, that goes for all of fandom, not just S/J fans.

I lurk in many parts of the SG1 forums, not just with those who agree with me or share my particular interests but more of my time online is spent on LJ and more adult areas.

FF

I was serious when I said thanks, FrostFox! If i'd meant it to be satirical I'd have put a little in there. I really do mean thanks for pointing out that we shippers aren't a bunch of loonies!

I fully realize that fandom is a seriously skewed subset of the audience, of that there can be no doubt! Interestingly, quite a few shippers I know that used to frequent GW have also moved on to LJ, for the reasons that you state.

[Frostfox]

I was serious when I said thanks, FrostFox! If i'd meant it to be satirical I'd have put a little in there. I really do mean thanks for pointing out that we shippers aren't a bunch of loonies!

I fully realize that fandom is a seriously skewed subset of the audience, of that there can be no doubt! Interestingly, quite a few shippers I know that used to frequent GW have also moved on to LJ, for the reasons that you state.

I've been in fandom since 1982 and involved in conrunning since 1988, believe me, I have seen it all. I've been to Trek cons in the 1980's and comic cons and anime cons, SG1 fans are calm and sane and normal by comparison.

Hell, I've been involved in organising Worldcons... only peripherally but, oh, that really stretches the 'doing it for fun' part of fandom.

LJ fulfills many more of my fannish needs, GW is relaxing and easy for keeping up with SG1 news and fellow fans. Each plays their part.

FF

[Khentkawes]

FYI to all and sundry: You know "bad rep points" no longer exist on Gateworld, right? Users can no longer give negative rep points, only positive ones.

So ends my public service announcement for the day.

[Frostfox]

FYI to all and sundry: You know "bad rep points" no longer exist on Gateworld, right? Users can no longer give negative rep points, only positive ones.

So ends my public service announcement for the day.

You know, I hadn't noticed! And I've handed out recent green rep points. How observant am I? Not very, evidently.
There is still no need for poor behavior towards other fans.

FF

[Khentkawes]

You know, I hadn't noticed! And I've handed out recent green rep points. How observant am I? Not very, evidently.

Hehe. That's probably a good thing. It shows that you never used the red rep in the first place.

There is still no need for poor behavior towards other fans.

FF

I certainly can't disagree with that. Online fandom is an interesting thing, because you will inevitably encounter people who disagree with you. But it's all a matter of being respectful to your fellow fans.

[Frostfox]

Hehe. That's probably a good thing. It shows that you never used the red rep in the first place.

I certainly can't disagree with that. Online fandom is an interesting thing, because you will inevitably encounter people who disagree with you. But it's all a matter of being respectful to your fellow fans.

Being online gives an anonymity which doesn't exist in a one to one, face to face situation. It can be liberating in some ways but it can also breed ill mannered behaviour people wouldn't dream of indulging in normally.

FF

[Coela Bellatore]

I can be polite online, my entire job is about polite disagreement. I was a debater in high school and college and I have read the Torah, King James and Catholic Bible, Koran, and the teachings of Buddha. I tend to not speak unless I know what I am talking about. But back to my job, oh yes, the Taliban and I have a polite disagreement. They think I should be at the epicenter of a daisy-chained, 6-155mm, IED and I think that their faces would look much better with a gaping hole right between the eyes.

But yes, I try to respect all opinions, internet or otherwise.

[Frostfox]

I can be polite online, my entire job is about polite disagreement. I was a debater in high school and college and I have read the Torah, King James and Catholic Bible, Koran, and the teachings of Buddha. I tend to not speak unless I know what I am talking about. But back to my job, oh yes, the Taliban and I have a polite disagreement. They think I should be at the epicenter of a daisy-chained, 6-155mm, IED and I think that their faces would look much better with a gaping hole right between the eyes.

But yes, I try to respect all opinions, internet or otherwise.

I'll remember not to get on your bad side.

But you debate politely and it give us someone from outside our circle's view on our opinions, without belittling or preaching that we are 'wrong, wrong, wrong and S/J is the bestist thing evah! OMG ponies!!!!1!'

The obscenities committed by The Taliban are well documented, and, of course, the main casualties are their own people. Plus ça change.

FF

[Coela Bellatore]

The obscenities committed by The Taliban are well documented, and, of course, the main casualties are their own people. Plus ça change.

FF

Yeah, talk to anyone who has been to Afghanistan in a combat role and they will admit that we aren't saints and there are a lot of regrets and things we wished we could do differently. But the Taliban had their chance at being in charge and it didn't go so well so now its time that a secular Afghan Democracy got a shot at it.

[Frostfox]

Yeah, talk to anyone who has been to Afghanistan in a combat role and they will admit that we aren't saints and there are a lot of regrets and things we wished we could do differently. But the Taliban had their chance at being in charge and it didn't go so well so now its time that a secular Afghan Democracy got a shot at it.

We are no better in the US or Europe than anyone else, but sometimes intervention is justified (sometimes it isn't) and this is one of those times.
But that's a bit political for this board and way off topic.

Jack and Sam, ten seasons and no adult relationship, if TPTB weren't going to show something realistic and believable, why did they start it in the first place?
Does a TV show need a romance?

FF

[Khentkawes]

But that's a bit political for this board and way off topic.

True. Though to be fair, several recent *ahem* conversations have led to this thread getting a bit derailed. I think we were discussing an actual topic some time back.

Jack and Sam, ten seasons and no adult relationship, if TPTB weren't going to show something realistic and believable, why did they start it in the first place?
Does a TV show need a romance?

FF

Look! There's a topic.

In my opinion... no, it doesn't. I understand the argument that romantic relationships are natural and a part of everyday life, and that they should therefore be represented on TV. I understand that. But the question is, "how much is too much?"

Personally, it's a problem for me, because I'm a single female who thinks she has more important things to do with her time than go out on dates and develop romantic relationships. At this point in my life, that just isn't something I have the time or the desire to deal with. So for me, romance plot lines kinda put me to sleep.

Add to that the fact that I've seen so many romances on TV shows and in movies that they all are starting to sound the same. In most cases, romantic relationships are either idealized to the point of being unrealistic (romantic movies, chick flicks, etc.) or they are mocked (sit coms, some romantic comedies). Or you get the other extreme where a drama will just emphasize how screwed up the characters are by showing utterly dysfunctional relationships full of over-exaggerated angst. In the case of S/J, I think it suffered from a minor case of all three of those problems. The angst was a bit overdone, but I think they were trying to idealize the characters and write a wonderful story of "idealized true love." And, for me, the result ended up looking like it was mocking romantic relationships (actually, in the wedding scene in 200, they actually did mock the romance. I would also argue that the scene in Affinity where Sam complains about how society thinks that a woman has to have a man to be happy, also showed some conscious mockery of romantic stereotypes... although, oddly enough, the self-conscious commentary in this scene is also one of the reasons that I happen to like it).

Maybe if a TV show would include an interesting romance that did not fall into one of these three categories... maybe then I would be interested. But the problem is... I can't think of a single example that doesn't exhibit at least one of these problems.

[Frostfox]

True. Though to be fair, several recent *ahem* conversations have led to this thread getting a bit derailed. I think we were discussing an actual topic some time back.

I started online on UseNet, at Rec.Arts.sf.fandom. where being off topic was an art form, so it's a bad habit of mine.

Look! There's a topic.

In my opinion... no, it doesn't. I understand the argument that romantic relationships are natural and a part of everyday life, and that they should therefore be represented on TV. I understand that. But the question is, "how much is too much?"

Personally, it's a problem for me, because I'm a single female who thinks she has more important things to do with her time than go out on dates and develop romantic relationships. At this point in my life, that just isn't something I have the time or the desire to deal with. So for me, romance plot lines kinda put me to sleep.

Add to that the fact that I've seen so many romances on TV shows and in movies that they all are starting to sound the same. In most cases, romantic relationships are either idealized to the point of being unrealistic (romantic movies, chick flicks, etc.) or they are mocked (sit coms, some romantic comedies). Or you get the other extreme where a drama will just emphasize how screwed up the characters are by showing utterly dysfunctional relationships full of over-exaggerated angst. In the case of S/J, I think it suffered from a minor case of all three of those problems. The angst was a bit overdone, but I think they were trying to idealize the characters and write a wonderful story of "idealized true love." And, for me, the result ended up looking like it was mocking romantic relationships (actually, in the wedding scene in 200, they actually did mock the romance. I would also argue that the scene in Affinity where Sam complains about how society thinks that a woman has to have a man to be happy, also showed some conscious mockery of romantic stereotypes... although, oddly enough, the self-conscious commentary in this scene is also one of the reasons that I happen to like it).

Maybe if a TV show would include an interesting romance that did not fall into one of these three categories... maybe then I would be interested. But the problem is... I can't think of a single example that doesn't exhibit at least one of these problems.

Part of my problem is that I have no issues with romance in my real life but find it either boring or unrealistic in most TV and film dramas. Which pretty much jells with what you are saying.
I find it dull in popular music as well, every single song seems to be an overblown romance. Which is why I love my folk music, I have songs about murder and mayhem and infanticide and burning your daughter because she loves and Englishman (a Scottish ballad, obviously) or tearing Childe Owlet apart with four wild horses (the Scots were blood thirsty buggers). Besides, where else could you find a corker of a line as "Hell is dark, hell is deep, hell is full of mice"?

FF