Jack O'Neill/ Sam Carter - Part of a team, not a ship

[discodiva]

Amanda is very astute. I think she feels that now the programme is finished, what harm can it do. And in some ways I agree with her; SG1 is over, closed canon, it didn’t, thank all the gods of common sense, end in a ‘shippy’ love fest. The films are a codicil, an added extra, if I don’t have an interest in them, I don’t need to buy them to complete my collection.

Oh yes, fully agree with all these.....you could see that from Amanda's answers to the shippy questions at VanCon this year.....yep...I'm quite happy with my own personal canon after the ending of SG-1 The Series....

I was less bothered by the age difference than how much Jack looks and acts like a contemporary of Jacob. They even have Jack saying he thinks of Jacob like a brother. Eew. That’s just… creepy.

Yep always agreed with you on this one....

I think I have become resigned to the dissipation of the team due to the bumbled attempts at making Sam and Jack into something they aren’t, but the destruction of one of the most interesting female characters in S/F still smarts. And it’s heading towards the final nail in the coffin, the dreaded ‘Confirmation’.

*shudders every time I hear that word*....

I can see he’s attractive, wouldn’t kick him out of bed for leaving crumbs, but I don’t get the Jack/RDA worship. I think its part of RDA’s charisma, but I seem to be immune too.
Partly, it’s because I find the characters more sexy than the actors (with the exception on Amanda with dark hair, I think she’s much more stunning than Sam ever was). I don’t find Michael anywhere near as attractive as Daniel or RDA as attractive as Jack.

I have to admit I find Michael incredibly attractive as a man, respect him as an actor and think he's a thoroughly nice chap, but I do ADORE Daniel as a character....RDA is great fun on stage but I never really "fell" for him during his MacGyver days...he has a certain "something" though....and I hate to push this wonderful photo but I think that he and MS were at their peak of "gorgeous sexyness" during this photo shoot and the S7/S8 era!......(spoilered for "THING!!"...)

Spoiler:

Amanda does indeed look absolutely stunning with the long dark hair....although I prefer it in person than on screen....Sam, however, to me (and my husband funnily enough) is best with short blond hair (and not that "floofy" style either...)

Wasn’t that more of a creepy smirk (I really wouldn’t have wanted my boss looking at me like that when I had no idea he had been playing out his sexual fantasies without me being aware of what he had been doing)?

Creepy indeed....but not as creepy as that travesty of a "shower scene" in 200!...whoever thought of that concept and wrote it should have been shot!.....

That was RDA’s fault, apparently, he was fooling about on set, no change there then! I didn’t like the shot they chose for Sam in that scene, she looked embarrassed for heaven’s sake, she’s lived with, fought with, bled and cried with these people for seven years, she can’t be embarrassed by seeing one of them naked!
Jack seemed happy enough to see him, if adjusting his shirt was any indication. RDA is a Bad Man.

Yep, he is......and don't we Bad Women (tm ) love him for it....

So, in 10 years we have a grand total one, maybe two smiles? On this a relationship is built? Laughable if it weren’t so sad and so detrimental to the characters.

FF

Hear hear!....

[Frostfox]

Well, if the shippers see that picture as meaning that - then why are they still calling for the all singing, all dancing, all important confirmation? And if that picture wasn't good enough confirmation - even though according to the shippers it means that Jack and Sam are together - then what would be good enough for them/you?

As with all fangroups, I don’t think the S/J fans are a single monolithic group. I’m sure some of them are quite happy with what TPTB gave them.
I haven’t noticed a campaign sweeping across the interwebs with armed mobs of S/J fans calling for any further confirmation. If someone only goes to Gateworld and only reads the pro S/J threads here they would get a very different view of the fandom than if they went to other areas of the web, such as LJ.

The trouble is everything that the shippers point to as being evidence that they are so married/together/making babies etc changes depending on your point of view and the way each group feels about the characters, doesn't it?

In lots of ways, that’s the joy of fandom; everyone having a different point of view of the show, taking something different from it. As long as other fans don’t shove their preferences down my throat, I’m happy.

In my own experience of the show I have never seen anything that could even remotely be described as romantic between S/J, nothing at all. I have seen team moments and moments when Jack has shown concern for Sam, just the same as he has for Daniel and Teal'c. And it is that version of Jack and Sam I prefer. Team mates, not mates.

Again, this just shows that non S/J fans are no more a monolithic group than pro fans.
I like Team mates, not mates. Good motto for the thread.

FF

[Frostfox]

Oh yes, fully agree with all these.....you could see that from Amanda's answers to the shippy questions at VanCon this year.....yep...I'm quite happy with my own personal canon after the ending of SG-1 The Series....

Poor Amanda, every single time, all the same questions, she must get so sick of Sam being judged on her sex life.

I have to admit I find Michael incredibly attractive as a man, respect him as an actor and think he's a thoroughly nice chap, but I do ADORE Daniel as a character....RDA is great fun on stage but I never really "fell" for him during his MacGyver days...he has a certain "something" though....and I hate to push this wonderful photo but I think that he and MS were at their peak of "gorgeous sexyness" during this photo shoot and the S7/S8 era!......(spoilered for "THING!!"...)

Spoiler:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/dancingwallnut/sg_promo_036.jpg

FF turns into drooling mess. You know what that photo does for me!

Oh, that picture is so distracting.

I never saw MacGyver and the mullet doesn’t do a thing for me.
I’ve never really fallen for alpha men, the geeky sidekick is much more interesting than the lead. And it’s not that Daniel can’t be somewhat assertive, he’s certainly no milquetoast, when he wants to be, when he's focused on something.

Amanda does indeed look absolutely stunning with the long dark hair....although I prefer it in person than on screen....Sam, however, to me (and my husband funnily enough) is best with short blond hair (and not that "floofy" style either...)

I liked the short spiky cut on Sam, Amanda has the right bone structure for that cut. But the dark hair brings out the blue in her eyes and she can wear stronger colours which suit her too.
Sorry, this is turning into The Fashion Channel, isn’t it!

Creepy indeed....but not as creepy as that travesty of a "shower scene" in 200!...whoever thought of that concept and wrote it should have been shot!.....

Oh, please don’t remind me of that travesty. Horrible, horrible scene, what on earth were they thinking of? Implying that Jack was a perverted peeping tom? About as funny as herpes.
And the rest of that sketch was great! Just that one scene to ruin it.

Yep, he is......and don't we Bad Women (tm ) love him for it....

RDA is a man of the world, he knew exactly what he was doing.

FF

[jckfan55]

Is the "Smor" thread still going?.......*sighs*....I used to LOVE that thread......anyone remember when the wonderfully lovely and talented Seshat did "Sam and Thor's Roadtrip"?.....

Deeds xx

I do! Waves hand. I loved that thread. Hilarious. Seshat was a star. I think it's still there. Maybe we should post so the mods don't take it away.

Laughs! I'll bet any money that you and your hubbies 'LOOKS OF YEARNING' (TM Callista) don't make either of you look constipated or as though you suffer from The Doe Eyes of Death.

FF

:LOL: Jack always looked uncomfortable. Sometimes it was hard to tell if that was supposed to be the pain of unrequited love or the pain of a bad lunch in the mess hall.

ETA: FF, love your "moth against a light fixture" comment. Always a good turn of phrase. have some virtual green jello.

[jdjunkie]

:LOL: Jack always looked uncomfortable. It was hard to tell if that was supposed to be the pain of unrequited love or the pain of a bad lunch in the mess hall.

I understand the spag bol could indeed have that effect ... Thursdays in the mess hall were always bad right up to season 10.

[Frostfox]

I do! Waves hand. I loved that thread. Hilarious. Seshat was a star. I think it's still there. Maybe we should post so the mods don't take it away.

:LOL: Jack always looked uncomfortable. Sometimes it was hard to tell if that was supposed to be the pain of unrequited love or the pain of a bad lunch in the mess hall.

ETA: FF, love your "moth against a light fixture" comment. Always a good turn of phrase. have some virtual green jello.

And RDA is a good actor, there's no way that look of indigestion was accidental, that was an acting and a directing choice but it was such a bizarre one, I can't for the life of me imagine why they would do it.

I understand the spag bol could indeed have that effect ... Thursdays in the mess hall were always bad right up to season 10.

Perhaps we should have been sending boxes of Alka Seltzer to the studios?

FF

[DSG1]

Sam has hugged Thor more than Jack lol.

Well, if they do stick them together in the 3rd movie to satisfy the<mod snip....no name calling please>, then, that will be my last movie I will invest in unless it's a Ba'al episode.

[Khentkawes]

Again, this just shows that non S/J fans are no more a monolithic group than pro fans.
I like Team mates, not mates. Good motto for the thread.

A good motto indeed.

Does anyone use the "tags" feature on threads? I (almost) never do, but I just added a couple of tags to this thread. If anyone objects, I can remove them.

[DSG1]

And RDA is a good actor, there's no way that look of indigestion was accidental, that was an acting and a directing choice but it was such a bizarre one, I can't for the life of me imagine why they would do it.



Perhaps we should have been sending boxes of Alka Seltzer to the studios?

FF

haha, Jack always had had that 'look' on his face. I can't picture him looking like that while doing any kind of romantic love scene with Carter. lmao. I'll just point and laugh my arse off when it happens while the ship kiddies squeee like children, I'll be falling off my chair.

[discodiva]

A good motto indeed.

Does anyone use the "tags" feature on threads? I (almost) never do, but I just added a couple of tags to this thread. If anyone objects, I can remove them.

I think they're great tags and I have absolutely no objection to them whatsoever!.....



Deeds xx

[Frostfox]

Sam has hugged Thor more than Jack lol.

Well, if they do stick them together in the 3rd movie to satisfy the whiners, then, that will be my last movie I will invest in unless it's a Ba'al episode.

More Ba'al is always a good thing (and Sam can punch him again - now that was a good Sam moment, she so seldom loses her cool like that).

A good motto indeed.

Does anyone use the "tags" feature on threads? I (almost) never do, but I just added a couple of tags to this thread. If anyone objects, I can remove them.

Never used the tags feature, but I've added a couple too, in case someone does.

haha, Jack always had had that 'look' on his face. I can't picture him looking like that while doing any kind of romantic love scene with Carter. lmao. I'll just point and laugh my arse off when it happens while the ship kiddies squeee like children, I'll be falling off my chair.

I'll be throwing up. Though in truth, I'll be letting other fans, who's opinions I trust, see the film first, if it's full of Sammie luvs Sir, I won't be watching it at all.
The greatest love scene since Romeo and Juliette and he's going to look like he needs indigestion tablets and she's going to look like a love struck 17 year old, not a good look in a 40+ woman. I'm so looking forward to that.

Now I'd better get my tail in gear, got to drive 175 miles down to Reading, a committee meeting for the con we are running over late May Bank Holiday.
Beer and wine will be drunk, good food will be eaten, some conrunning will happen, possibly, if we can get away from the hot tub and the hammock and all the other distractions.

FF

[DSG1]

More Ba'al is always a good thing (and Sam can punch him again - now that was a good Sam moment, she so seldom loses her cool like that).



Never used the tags feature, but I've added a couple too, in case someone does.



I'll be throwing up. Though in truth, I'll be letting other fans, who's opinions I trust, see the film first, if it's full of Sammie luvs Sir, I won't be watching it at all.
The greatest love scene since Romeo and Juliette and he's going to look like he needs indigestion tablets and she's going to look like a love struck 17 year old, not a good look in a 40+ woman. I'm so looking forward to that.

Now I'd better get my tail in gear, got to drive 175 miles down to Reading, a committee meeting for the con we are running over late May Bank Holiday.
Beer and wine will be drunk, good food will be eaten, some conrunning will happen, possibly, if we can get away from the hot tub and the hammock and all the other distractions.

FF

I'm really hoping the writer's wouldn't want to shoot themselves in the foot like that. Not so early on in the movie versions. Especially if they have more they want to do.

They did that with Troi/Riker cos they knew that was pretty much the last of The Next Generation films so they gave the fans what they wanted.

Since Jack is the head of Homeworld security and not retiring anytime too soon and if Carter is on her own ship I don't see them having much if any relationship or so called romance at least, I'm hoping not. I would have accepted it if Jack was going to retire so he can be with Sam but it doesn't look it will ever happen.

I personally didn't want RDA back he left. Hopefully this will be the last SG1 movie with him. I wanna see Ben in charge of SG1 not RDA who can barely act these days.


I loved The Quest and Insiders. Seeing Carter punch Ba'al reminded me of the old Carter when she wasn't girlie Carter and she could kiss ass!!! I loved that scene and the look on Teal'c face was priceless.

[Frostfox]

I'm really hoping the writer's wouldn't want to shoot themselves in the foot like that. Not so early on in the movie versions. Especially if they have more they want to do.

They did that with Troi/Riker cos they knew that was pretty much the last of The Next Generation films so they gave the fans what they wanted.

Since Jack is the head of Homeworld security and not retiring anytime too soon and if Carter is on her own ship I don't see them having much if any relationship or so called romance at least, I'm hoping not. I would have accepted it if Jack was going to retire so he can be with Sam but it doesn't look it will ever happen.

I personally didn't want RDA back he left. Hopefully this will be the last SG1 movie with him. I wanna see Ben in charge of SG1 not RDA who can barely act these days.


I loved The Quest and Insiders. Seeing Carter punch Ba'al reminded me of the old Carter when she wasn't girlie Carter and she could kiss ass!!! I loved that scene and the look on Teal'c face was priceless.

Now, I was thinking that this might be the last SG1 film with the original Big Four. There might be more films but it's getting less and less likely that they would get the Big Four all back together, all the actors have a career outside of the franchise to think about.
You might be right, there could be more films, but this might be the last chance for getting RDA. And they would be really, really, REALLY sad to keep flogging the S/J dead horse without him (oh wait, I forgot! They still are and Jack's not been a regular part of the franchise for about four, five years... )
RDA is a draw, but he's not the only draw, he's certainly not my main draw to the show.

Kick ass Sam kicks ass! Love her to death. I want this Sam, not twinset and pearls and doe eyes of death Sam!!!!!

FF

[Khentkawes]

Since Jack is the head of Homeworld security and not retiring anytime too soon and if Carter is on her own ship I don't see them having much if any relationship or so called romance at least, I'm hoping not. I would have accepted it if Jack was going to retire so he can be with Sam but it doesn't look it will ever happen.

I agree with most of that. If they're not working anywhere near each other (Jack at HWS and Carter on her ship/new command), I don't see how they could write a romantic relationship between them that didn't feel horribly forced and contrived. Of course, I thought the whole thing was contrived, so maybe that's just me (although, by the evidence in this thread, clearly it wasn't just me ).

But as to Jack retiring... That's something I've always had a problem with. I've heard a lot of fans say that Jack has wanted to retire since season 8, that he was never happy as the head of the SGC, he never wanted to take the position as head of HWS and he only did so out of duty. I just don't get any of this. Jack never says that on camera. He never even hints at it. You could make inferences based on body-language I suppose... but if Jack didn't want to take the position as commander of the SGC, he could have said "no." If he didn't want to be head of HWS, he could have retired right then. No one forced him to do this. And this is Jack we're talking about, so I really don't see how anyone could force him to do something if he was dead-set against it.

My other problem is that I've never seen Jack as someone who could be happy just sitting around. He's too active for that. He even says he doesn't like sitting around (from The Shroud: "Action good. Sitting around bad." I admit that quote is also the one piece of evidence I see for the "Jack doesn't like working at HWS" argument... but considering he'd be doing even more sitting around if he was retired, it still doesn't hold water for me). For me, it kind of diminishes Jack's character to imply that he spends his time longing for retirement and a life as a couch potato (or as a sedentary fisherman). True, Jack often talks about wanting to go fishing, and often emphasizes the need for time-off (both for himself and for the rest of SG-1), but to me this shows that Jack knows that it's necessary to balance his stressful job with a period of relaxation where he can unwind. It's a healthy coping strategy. Unlike the Jack we see in 2010 who retreats to the cabin to brood and sulk. That was a prime example of Jack doing nothing and it only increasing his misery.

Maybe I just have a hard time respecting a character whose life-long ambition is (supposedly) to sit around and fish 24/7... to me, that seems like a waste of time and a waste of your life. And it's not the how I interpret Jack's character. So the whole retirement angle really drives me insane.

My other problem with it is that Sam seems to think that fishing is all Jack wants to do. Just like Jack does not understand Sam's love of science (and Jack has no desire to understand it, apart from the astronomy part), I don't think Sam really understands Jack. I know people have mentioned before that Sam seems to buy Jack's dumb act a little more often than Daniel, Teal'c, and Hammond do (which I agree with), but she also seems to think that Jack is ready to retire... I know, at least in the infamous deleted scene from Atlantis, JM wrote Sam as saying that the "guy from Washington" who she had been seeing was almost ready to retire. Does Sam really believe that Jack's career isn't important to him anymore? Does she really believe that he's ready to become her domesticated house husband? Jack? Former special ops, hard-as-nails Jack O'Neill? I'll grant you that a lot of this retirement stuff, and Sam's attitude towards it, come from the inferences and statements made by shippers, but it still baffles my mind. I can't see Jack being happy with the retired life. Or, if he was retired, I could see him working as a consultant/adviser to the SGC/Pentagon/President/HWS, and in his off-time running some sort of intercity youth program (knowing how Jack feels about kids). I can never see Jack being inactive or sedentary.

I guess what I'm saying here is that we've talked about how the ship angle diminished Sam's character by implying that she needs a man to be happy (and possibly by implying that she'd risk her career by lusting after her CO), but I think it also diminishes Jack's character. Which is part of the reason I can't buy the ship... it doesn't fit with my interpretation of either character.

I personally didn't want RDA back he left. Hopefully this will be the last SG1 movie with him.

I didn't really want RDA back either. Which surprised me, because he was one of my two favorite characters. But it was so nice to move on from the same old formulas, and the disintegrating team dynamic and start fresh... rebuild a new team dynamic. So when season 9 started, I was afraid I would dislike it, but I soon found I didn't even notice RDA's absence. I know that there are a lot of fans who think season 9 and 10 were utter drivel. And that's fine. But they can't tell me that it had no team dynamic or that it was complete crap. Because I see just the opposite. And bringing back RDA feels like an attempt to recapture the "old school" SG1 feel and an excuse to pretend seasons 9 and 10 never happened. Which I find somewhat distasteful and also completely unrealistic. You can't turn back time. Things chance. That's a natural part of life, even for a TV show. Trying to turn back time (metaphorically) rarely works out well.

I loved The Quest and Insiders. Seeing Carter punch Ba'al reminded me of the old Carter when she wasn't girlie Carter and she could kiss ass!!! I loved that scene and the look on Teal'c face was priceless.

I rediscovered how cool Cater is in season 9 and 10. It had been so long since I'd actually liked her as a character. S9/S10 made me actually love her character. She did her job, took command when appropriate, supported her teammates, worked on her brilliant science projects, and kicked ass when the opportunity arose. Strong, brilliant, insightful, calm, confident Carter! That's what I wanted to see.

[Coela Bellatore]

Former special ops, hard-as-nails Jack O'Neill?

Good post just a couple things that I don't really agree with. Former special ops guys are not crazy adrenaline junkies. A lot of them just like to retire and do something peaceful. Were mostly sarcastic laid back dudes, which is why we can take a lot of punishment. You take some high strung, do or die, nit pick and put him in a situation where ever single choice he makes is mission critical and they burn out in weeks.

And I can see Jack retiring to settle down with someone. I was surprised he was made a general at all and I find this to be one of the most unrealistic things in the entire series. Spec ops guys don't do well with bull**** and when you get to be a general its all bull****. I doubt he likes his job very much.