Jack O'Neill/ Sam Carter - Part of a team, not a ship

[jckfan55]

You know, I'm not exactly sure what do you think will happen in the 3rd movie. Most shippers don't want a full blown romance, just some (subtle) confirmation that S/J indeed are together post-Threads. Both of them arriving at the base in one car, or Sam being in Jack's apartment when the guys arrive, or both of them sleeping in the same bed when they get the call that something happened would be ok for us. And after that - team all the way! I don't think 30 seconds long shot is so much to ask for and it would satisfy both sides like Moebius did.

Hmm. I'm not sure how seeing Sam and Jack in bed followed by any amount of team team team would satisfy any of us on this thread. It would, however, give me a jolly good reason not fork out hard-earned cash on the movie.

And require brain scrubbing.

And I'm sorry but how on Earth can anyone not see Jack/Thor!!!!! Good God one half of that pairing is stripped and ready for action all the time. And I'm pretty sure Thor is naked too...oh wait... that might be a dream I had.

OMGOMG Jack/Thor!! No confirmation needed there, baby.

Hey! I thought it was Sam/Thor! Don't tell me there is a love triangle going on here.

[discodiva]

And require brain scrubbing.

I'll get the bleach!...

Hey! I thought it was Sam/Thor! Don't tell me there is a love triangle going on here.

Is the "Smor" thread still going?.......*sighs*....I used to LOVE that thread......anyone remember when the wonderfully lovely and talented Seshat did "Sam and Thor's Roadtrip"?.....



Deeds xx

[Callista]

Hey! I thought it was Sam/Thor! Don't tell me there is a love triangle going on here.

Now don't make us explain the love dodecahedron again!

[jdjunkie]

Dude, there ain't enough bleach in the world to erase that image ...

+ = OTP

[Frostfox]

*sighs*....we had at least 2 questions in Vancouver re: S/J ship, plus the usual "squealing" every time he got within a few feet of her during the fan vids shown....from a vocal minority for sure (but that's excusable - people squeal when their favourite in SG always comes on in one of those..).....Amanda was gracious and answered as tactfully as possible...but I'm sure it must get very hard to try and please all people all the time...hey - isn't there a saying about that somewhere?.....like you can't!...

I would NEVER dream of passing on my desires for "confirmation" re: my fanfiction pairing () and do not understand this incessant need for it in S/J ship....

I do blame some of the writers for encouraging so much interaction between fans and them.....my own opinion is that with the growth of the internet there is now TOO much interaction between fans and writers/stars/etc....many fans now feel it's their right to "demand" constant interaction from said writers/stars/etc - please DO NOT get me started on the demands for the likes of MS to start blogging again or Twittering!!......just leave the man in peace to get on with the important things in life - like finding constant work to further his career, pay the bills and support his wife and children!.....grrrrrrrrrrrrr!...

*takes deep breath*...but I digress.....


I sometimes wish the old style "magic" was there....no spoilers, no fan input on certain writers' blogs .......and none of this belief that one fan group has a greater "right" to a conclusion than others......


Deeds xx

It's the nature of the internet and our interactive age. It will never go back to the way it was. In part, it was what interested me about the original concept of Amanda's Sanctuary; doing something interactive with the fans and the writing. Sadly, they found that the interwebs are not quite ready for the concept yet and turned the show into a regular TV series, but I don't think it will be long before that level of interaction is seen as another form of media. It was an interesting concept however.

Blogging and Tweeting are still new media, still in their infancy, there will be huge changes in on line media in the next five, ten years, but there is no going back.

Best friend Annie remembers, in the 1970's, owning pretty much every bit of official Trek merchandise. It was finite, not the money making franchises we have now.

Hmm, you guys aren't so keen on posting on the ship thread, so I'll just drop in here for a minute

This is true. As a shipper and a team fan I was perfectly happy with season 8 ending.



You know, I'm not exactly sure what do you think will happen in the 3rd movie. Most shippers don't want a full blown romance, just some (subtle) confirmation that S/J indeed are together post-Threads. Both of them arriving at the base in one car, or Sam being in Jack's apartment when the guys arrive, or both of them sleeping in the same bed when they get the call that something happened would be ok for us. And after that - team all the way! I don't think 30 seconds long shot is so much to ask for and it would satisfy both sides like Moebius did.

Please, I've just eaten.
And that's about as subtle as a baseball bat across the back of fans heads. I'm sure it would make you happy but I would be throwing up and Sam's career would be down the toilet too. The woman who slept her way to where she got. And it would be a cold day in hell before I'd part with a shilling for such dross, no matter what the rest of the film is like.

True. But while RDA would never do anything that would reflect badly on the AF, he's been always in favour of the ship. He always said he'd like to resolve it at the end of the series, to remain respectful towards the AF but to give shippers their happy ending.
Amanda was the one who had objections.

Citation? I don't ever remember seeing RDA say that in print.

That would be because S/J ship is canon, while J/D is pure fanon.

At least RDA didn't look like he had indigestion when he was with Daniel.

This is RDA acting that Jack's happy.


This is a man supposedly in love with the woman being a lamprey on his hand.


Or when he's dying, shouldn't he look less like he wishes the ground would open swallow him when she stalks him to his home?


That's never love in his eyes, not by anyone's standards.


I could go on, but I don't need to justify my opinion of S/J, here or anywhere else.

FF

[discodiva]

*applauds Frostfox*.....


('cos I'm out of real green to give you )

[jdjunkie]

Most excellent FF!

A picture paints a thousands words ... Always ...
Oh damn it, that means I should quit scribbling ...

[Frostfox]

Most excellent FF!

A picture paints a thousands words ... Always ...
Oh damn it, that means I should quit scribbling ...

Get thee back to the fanfic mines, woman.
Don't make me get the whip out.

Hm, I forgot, you rather liked the whip last time...

Thanks for the green, both real and figurative, chaps.

FF

[Callista]

Personally, I don't really care if the actors are or are not in favor of the ship, as long as they "act" in whatever way is appropriate to the script and the story.

And, while I definitely don't like this particular ship, I can live with an implication that they're together as long as it doesn't detract from my enjoyment of the rest of the movie.

I used to care more about the whole Air Force regulations thing than I do now (but to be honest I think that's only because Sam kept bringing them up herself as a reason they shouldn't be together), but it's a TV show and I'm not in the Air Force so I can live with that. I don't care about the age difference. I just plain and simply don't want to see any more LOOKS OF YEARNING! Those just make me go "Blah". ("Blah" is best said the way Arnold Lobel does on his books on tape of "Frog and Toad" in case you want it to its full effect.)

And, I don't want the ship to be a big focus or even a medium-sized focus that takes away from the rest of the characters and character interactions. Which, frankly, if they have been together since "Threads" it shouldn't be. Sure, my husband and I still occasionally give each other LOOKS OF YEARNING, but never in public! (Usually it's just when the kids are still awake at 11pm.)

I just hope Martin Lloyd is writing this one because at least I know he doesn't want to torture me on purpose.

[Frostfox]

Personally, I don't really care if the actors are or are not in favor of the ship, as long as they "act" in whatever way is appropriate to the script and the story.

And, while I definitely don't like this particular ship, I can live with an implication that they're together as long as it doesn't detract from my enjoyment of the rest of the movie.

I used to care more about the whole Air Force regulations thing than I do now (but to be honest I think that's only because Sam kept bringing them up herself as a reason they shouldn't be together), but it's a TV show and I'm not in the Air Force so I can live with that. I don't care about the age difference. I just plain and simply don't want to see any more LOOKS OF YEARNING! Those just make me go "Blah". ("Blah" is best said the way Arnold Lobel does on his books on tape of "Frog and Toad" in case you want it to its full effect.)

And, I don't want the ship to be a big focus or even a medium-sized focus that takes away from the rest of the characters and character interactions. Which, frankly, if they have been together since "Threads" it shouldn't be. Sure, my husband and I still occasionally give each other LOOKS OF YEARNING, but never in public! (Usually it's just when the kids are still awake at 11pm.)

I just hope Martin Lloyd is writing this one because at least I know he doesn't want to torture me on purpose.

Laughs! I'll bet any money that you and your hubbies 'LOOKS OF YEARNING' (TM Callista) don't make either of you look constipated or as though you suffer from The Doe Eyes of Death.

FF

[Coela Bellatore]

I thought that the picture in Atlantis was enough confirmation. I don't know anyone who keeps pictures of their CO's with them when they switch commands. That alone is a subtle as a kick in gonads. While I don't care if they have a relationship (sexually...gasp) an obvious and contrived scene for the shippers is just distasteful.

[Callista]

Um...

Well, first off, I don't think there's any need to categorize other fans (and I suspect you may be quite a bit off on the category chosen regardless).

Secondly, I don't think marriage is the end of romance. Far from it. Unfortunately, the entertainment industry often thinks it is and doesn't portray it well. If they really are going to have Jack and Sam be together in some sense, I'd actually prefer it if they were in some sort of stable relationship after all this time (whether that be marriage or some other form of commitment).

What I really don't like is the idea that after, what...twelve or thirteen years?, they're still dithering around afraid to tell each other what they feel. To me, that just makes them both look immature and frankly a bit pathetic.

So, while I'd prefer that they are still just really good friends along with Daniel and Teal'c, I can accept them being in a mature relationship. But that certainly doesn't mean I want to SEE it!

Of course, that's just me. The shipping/non-shipping universe is so large and I am just one small fan who happens to really love Oma.

[Frostfox]

I thought that the picture in Atlantis was enough confirmation. I don't know anyone who keeps pictures of their CO's with them when they switch commands. That alone is a subtle as a kick in gonads. While I don't care if they have a relationship (sexually...gasp) an obvious and contrived scene for the shippers is just distasteful.

I just find it sad, this kick a** female officer, brilliant, accomplished, good looking and the sum total of her contribution is to fall for the boss.
You're in the Services, you know what would be said about her (why is it always the woman who bares the brunt? Rhetorical question).

Amanda will listen to the fans that will scream the most but I thought it was her who pretty much wanted to stop the ship? and thats why by season 5, they were backing on it now, all of sudden, they want it for the 3rd movie to satisfy the kiddies?


I was one of the few that followed Troi/Riker and hated that they pulled a fast one ended it with them getting married.. They killed it by marrying them off so where are they now at the unemployment line?

Too bad the rabid s/j fans who are screaming for their confirmation, oh really? I didnt even know s/j existed till I came here and started reading the endless sobbing/whining threads demanding they have a confirmation for 3rd movie? thread. Confirmation? what the hell is confirmation? I don't want to see these characters end up like Troi/Riker just so they can satisfy the soap opera crowd, lonely housewives who stay at home whining over TV ships. don't they realize by doing that to the characters that will kill any future movies with them? no, of course not. lets ruin the characters by domesticating them. Jack is far too old for Sam. I've been down this road a million times that is why I no longer ship.

I think Amanda was aware of the effect on her character, it would be hard not to be (and it wasn't just the pairing with Jack, they really tried to turn her into The Girl in season seven) she's not even slightly daft. They risked ruining one of the best female characters out there and neutering poor old Jack into the bargain.

As I said, I'm not sure what effect fan activity has on TPTB, if I was running a multimillion pound franchise, would I want to be influenced by a few online fans or would I do some sensible, unbiased research?
Fans like to gather together with fellow fen, I do with people who like what I do in SG, and with other fans in the wider world of fandom (the importance of my SG1 fandom is really tiny beside all my other fannish/ non fannish activities). Online fandom is only a tiny part of general SG1 fandom. Gateworld is only a tiny part of SG1 fandom. There are tens of thousands of fans registered on Gateworld, how many are active in the pro S/J thread? Ten? Twenty? Out of tens of thousands. This is not to knock those who do like the pairing, they are entitled to enjoy what they like, it's just to point out that they really are just a tiny proportion of SG1 fandom as a whole.

Um...

Well, first off, I don't think there's any need to categorize other fans (and I suspect you may be quite a bit off on the category chosen regardless).

Secondly, I don't think marriage is the end of romance. Far from it. Unfortunately, the entertainment industry often thinks it is and doesn't portray it well. If they really are going to have Jack and Sam be together in some sense, I'd actually prefer it if they were in some sort of stable relationship after all this time (whether that be marriage or some other form of commitment).

What I really don't like is the idea that after, what...twelve or thirteen years?, they're still dithering around afraid to tell each other what they feel. To me, that just makes them both look immature and frankly a bit pathetic.

So, while I'd prefer that they are still just really good friends along with Daniel and Teal'c, I can accept them being in a mature relationship. But that certainly doesn't mean I want to SEE it!

Of course, that's just me. The shipping/non-shipping universe is so large and I am just one small fan who happens to really love Oma.

I don't want to think that two characters I care for can be so pathetic, but honestly, can you see them having a mature, adult conversation in the show? I really can't and that's much more important than any elusive 'chemistry' which some of us don't even see. Even if they had romantic chemistry, relationships are hard work, they aren't based on something so ephemeral. Relationships take a genuine connection and work and a level of communication that they just have never shown between Sam and Jack in what, 13 years?

FF

[Callista]

I don't want to think that two characters I care for can be so pathetic, but honestly, can you see them having a mature, adult conversation in the show? I really can't and that's much more important than any elusive 'chemistry' which some of us don't even see. Even if they had romantic chemistry, relationships are hard work, they aren't based on something so ephemeral. Relationships take a genuine connection and work and a level of communication that they just have never shown between Sam and Jack in what, 13 years?

FF

You know what? That bolded part would actually be the one shippy thing I really wouldn't mind seeing. If Sam and Jack could really have a mature, adult conversation that wasn't steeped in awkwardness and then move on to do whatever the mission of the moment is in a professional way. For instance:
"Are you ready to go on your mission with Daniel to procure the necessary technology?"

"Yes. Are you ready to go on your mission with Teal'c and Cam (if he's in the movie) to procure us a spaceship?"

"Yes. OK, then. I know you'll both do a great job and we'll meet you at the coordinates as planned. I love you and good luck!"

"I love you too. Make sure Teal'c doesn't hit Cam too much."

*insert small smooch here*

"All right, team. Let's go save Siler!!"

*and off they go* (some of us can add an optional little hair ruffle from Jack and Daniel if desired)

[Petra]

Paragraph 1 : Yep. But then, this is the former anti-thread. That shouldn't surprise you.

Paragraph 2: Trust me, it's very easy not to see it. Or ignore it, even when it's being shoved own our throats. And that's why "confirmation" would kill my feelings for the show pretty much outright.

Thanks for honesty. It's just, I'm sorry but I can't get my head around the concept of disliking the whole movie based on *one scene*. And believe me I do understand where are you coming from, because what you guys think about J/S ship I think about D/V. Same thing. But I still watched Unending and would watch the next movie even if they were involved. *shrug*

I'd be interested to see any examples you might have of RDA's support for the ship. I've never come across any. I have seen him looking pained, disinterested, constipated and uncomfortable in so-called shippy scenes though. Maybe that's where I'm getting my understanding of his views from.

I've just spent over an hour looking for those interviews. Unfortunately the site which hosted them (or, to be more accurate, shippy excerpts from interviews with RDA, AT and TPTB) is down, and in the interviews on RDA's homepage ship isn't mentioned. I found there just one chat in which he says he'd like to resolve UST, but it can be taken both ways. (http://www.rdanderson.com/ Archives/articles/scifi online live chat 18.06.2003)

So, I'll be happy to provide evidence - it's only fair you ask - but I can do it..in a month. I know how it looks like, but the thing is, I have some print-outs of them somewhere in my house, but I won't be back there for another month. Right now I'm on the wrong continent.

As for the pictures Frostfox posted, I had to laugh at that. Guys, I'm not trying to change your minds and there's not a chance you'll change mine. You can laugh all you want and make fun of me to your hearts' content, but I do find these photos shippy. Is Jack happy in them? Of course not, but then again he isn't supposed to be. It's called angst.

I used to care more about the whole Air Force regulations thing than I do now (but to be honest I think that's only because Sam kept bringing them up herself as a reason they shouldn't be together), but it's a TV show and I'm not in the Air Force so I can live with that. I don't care about the age difference. I just plain and simply don't want to see any more LOOKS OF YEARNING! Those just make me go "Blah". ("Blah" is best said the way Arnold Lobel does on his books on tape of "Frog and Toad" in case you want it to its full effect.)

But that's what I meant! If there is a scene that somehow confirms their relationship, that means no UST, angst etc. One would think you'd be happy about it.

Oh yes, lets show two military officers in bed together? Just to satisfy the shipper kiddies? Never mind there a million fans that dont want to pay to see that soap opera stuff, never mind there's more to a movie than soap smutt. Never mind that Jack IS STILL HER BOSS. Never mind that theya re still Airforce, and that its against the regs, according to them the regs can be broken so they can wakeup in bed together? Gag!!

Firstly, them waking up in bed was just one of the examples I gave. Are you so opposed to the other 2 as well? Why?

Secondly, there are also milions of fans who want to see romance in sci-fi. Neither shippers nor anti-shippers can speak for the general audience.

Thirdly, I suggest looking up the term "space opera". It doesn't mean what you are suggesting in your post. The term has been explained in various threads on GW ad nauseam.

No one, least of all I, suggested any smut. Sharing a bed doesn't mean having sex.

Jack being Sam's boss isn't a fact. It's pure assumption on the fans part. We don't know any details of Jack's job. This means we don't know how their chain of command look like. As far as canon goes we don't even have a confirmation what Jack's position is. Everything we know - or think we know - about it comes from various interviews/blogs which aren't canon.

Too bad the rabid s/j fans who are screaming for their confirmation, oh really? I didnt even know s/j existed till I came here and started reading the endless sobbing/whining threads demanding they have a confirmation for 3rd movie? thread. Confirmation? what the hell is confirmation? I don't want to see these characters end up like Troi/Riker just so they can satisfy the soap opera crowd, lonely housewives who stay at home whining over TV ships. don't they realize by doing that to the characters that will kill any future movies with them? no, of course not. lets ruin the characters by domesticating them. Jack is far too old for Sam. I've been down this road a million times that is why I no longer ship.

Hmm, maybe you'll make up your mind as to the identity od S/J shippers? We can't be "kiddies" and "housewives" at the same time. Besides the fact that we don't share your opinion is hardly a reason for such derogatory comments about the real people. Say whatever you like about the ship, that's what the thread is for, but please show some respect towards other fans. Because when all is said and done we are all still fans of the same show. Besides one look at the ship discussion thread will show you that your assesment isn't correct anyway.

And for the record: the canonical age difference between Jack and Sam is 11 years. Personally I don't see the problem. My grandfather is 10 years older than my grandma - please tell him he's too old for her..