Jack O'Neill/ Sam Carter - Part of a team, not a ship

[Frostfox]

In the end I hear that every script that they run has to be approved by the pentagon so whatever they want is going to get the go. Maybe all the shippers should go protest there.

Dunno about The Pentagon, they did have an Air Force Adviser at one point.

RDA has loads of respect for the Air Force, he made darn sure that anytime S/J were shown kissing or the like, they weren't in uniform.

S/J is an old issue now, but Sam would forever be tainted as The Woman Who Got Where She Was By Sleeping With The Boss even though that isn't true and they are no longer in the same chain of command (I assume). Even if Jack retired, that would still be the attitude. And I'm very fond of Sam. I don't want her character to be remembered like that (in the show or in fandom).

It's a hard one. I understand that adding relationships to a show adds to the characters, I just think that they were so clumsy with S/J and it so detracted from the team due to poor writing.
Aspects which add to a show shouldn't detract from other aspects, if you get my drift.
I'd have rather had relationships going on in the background with NPC (non player characters - a gaming term!) rather than between principals on the show.

FF

[Coela Bellatore]

Dunno about The Pentagon, they did have an Air Force Adviser at one point.

RDA has loads of respect for the Air Force, he made darn sure that anytime S/J were shown kissing or the like, they weren't in uniform.

S/J is an old issue now, but Sam would forever be tainted as The Woman Who Got Where She Was By Sleeping With The Boss even though that isn't true and they are no longer in the same chain of command (I assume). Even if Jack retired, that would still be the attitude. And I'm very fond of Sam. I don't want her character to be remembered like that (in the show or in fandom).

It's a hard one. I understand that adding relationships to a show adds to the characters, I just think that they were so clumsy with S/J and it so detracted from the team due to poor writing.
Aspects which add to a show shouldn't detract from other aspects, if you get my drift.
I'd have rather had relationships going on in the background with NPC (non player characters - a gaming term!) rather than between principals on the show.

FF

Well two of the Joint Chiefs watched SG-1 and got to guest star in it, so it must have been up there.

[Frostfox]

Well two of the Joint Chiefs watched SG-1 and got to guest star in it, so it must have been up there.

Oh yeah, and I know from various articles and RDA getting a civilian award that the USAF thought that SG1 was a Good Thing.

Those of us in this thread think that SG1 is a Good Thing or we wouldn't be fans. Just because we like SG1 doesn't mean that we check our critical faculties at the door, we can still be critical about parts of the show which don't work for us.

FF

[Petra]

Hmm, you guys aren't so keen on posting on the ship thread, so I'll just drop in here for a minute

They went fishing at the end of season eight. Which is what the S/J fans had mithered for years for. S/J fans saw Sam getting her man, twu wuv and all that baloney, the rest of the fanbase/casual fans/team fans saw a good teamy ending, how Jack's leaving should always have been, the big four together at the end.

This is true. As a shipper and a team fan I was perfectly happy with season 8 ending.

Both sides were happy, story over. Now it's a dead horse and most of the S/J fans have moved on and there is a huge batch of new fans who don't give a fig. It's going to be Troi/Riker all over again.
FF

You know, I'm not exactly sure what do you think will happen in the 3rd movie. Most shippers don't want a full blown romance, just some (subtle) confirmation that S/J indeed are together post-Threads. Both of them arriving at the base in one car, or Sam being in Jack's apartment when the guys arrive, or both of them sleeping in the same bed when they get the call that something happened would be ok for us. And after that - team all the way! I don't think 30 seconds long shot is so much to ask for and it would satisfy both sides like Moebius did.

RDA has loads of respect for the Air Force, he made darn sure that anytime S/J were shown kissing or the like, they weren't in uniform.

True. But while RDA would never do anything that would reflect badly on the AF, he's been always in favour of the ship. He always said he'd like to resolve it at the end of the series, to remain respectful towards the AF but to give shippers their happy ending.
Amanda was the one who had objections.

I would NEVER dream of passing on my desires for "confirmation" re: my fanfiction pairing () and do not understand this incessant need for it in S/J ship....

That would be because S/J ship is canon, while J/D is pure fanon.

[flynn1959]

[QUOTE=discodiva;10134968


I sometimes wish the old style "magic" was there....no spoilers, no fan input on certain writers' blogs .......and none of this belief that one fan group has a greater "right" to a conclusion than others......


Deeds xx[/QUOTE]

Amen to that.

I miss the old days when you sat down to watch a tv show without the first clue what was going to happen. When we lived in blissfull ignorance of fan factions, or behind the scenes polictics. And the only thing spoiled was the odd bit of veg that had somehow found it's way to the back of the salad crisper in the fridge.

[jdjunkie]

You know, I'm not exactly sure what do you think will happen in the 3rd movie. Most shippers don't want a full blown romance, just some (subtle) confirmation that S/J indeed are together post-Threads. Both of them arriving at the base in one car, or Sam being in Jack's apartment when the guys arrive, or both of them sleeping in the same bed when they get the call that something happened would be ok for us. And after that - team all the way! I don't think 30 seconds long shot is so much to ask for and it would satisfy both sides like Moebius did.



True. But while RDA would never do anything that would reflect badly on the AF, he's been always in favour of the ship. He always said he'd like to resolve it at the end of the series, to remain respectful towards the AF but to give shippers their happy ending.
Amanda was the one who had objections.



That would be because S/J ship is canon, while J/D is pure fanon.

Hmm. I'm not sure how seeing Sam and Jack in bed followed by any amount of team team team would satisfy any of us on this thread. It would, however, give me a jolly good reason not fork out hard-earned cash on the movie.

As to RDA and the ship, I remember him nixing "Give Sam my love" in 2010 (source, Essential Scripts) in favour of "Give her my best" (out of uniform at the time) and turning what should have been a kiss into a hug in TBFtGoG, (same source) and saying he wanted things left open (DVD behind-the-scenes, can't remember which ep or disc). Not your most ardent supporter. Also, AT has varied wildly on any kind of resolution from they should never be together to yes, let them have a one-night stand/roll in the hay/spend forever in the cabin. I can't blame her for changing her answers. She must be as hacked off with answering the same old questions all the time as we are listening the answers.


I'm glad my preferred pairing is pure fanon. I don't have to insist anyone else sees it.

[flynn1959]

That would be because S/J ship is canon, while J/D is pure fanon.

Actually, I think you'll find that as of the most recent movie they are both pure fanon. As are most of the dozens and dozens of ship/slash pairings people like to imagine.

Just saying a thing over and over and over doesn't make it a fact, if that were true then the world would be full of people who had won the lottery!

Jack and Sam worked well as part of a team imo, all four of them did. When you try to bring sex into that kind of relationship it never ends well. I enjoyed the Jack who thought of Daniel and Sam as 'his kids', that Jack from the early seasons just seemed so much more interesting to me. More real, more caring. A team leader you could trust and believe in. Not someone you thought might have a hidden agenda, or worse still, someone who might just 'play favourites' because of an illegal relationship with a subordinate officer.

[flynn1959]

As to RDA and the ship, I remember him nixing "Give Sam my love" in 2010 (source, Essential Scripts) in favour of "Give her my best" (out of uniform at the time) and turning what should have been a kiss into a hug in TBFtGoG, (same source) and saying he wanted things left open (DVD behind-the-scenes, can't remember which ep or disc). Not your most ardent supporter. Also, AT has varied wildly on any kind of resolution from they should never be together to yes, let them have a one-night stand/roll in the hay/spend forever in the cabin. I can't blame her for changing her answers. She must be as hacked off with answering the same old questions all the time as we are listening the answers.


I'm glad my preferred pairing is pure fanon. I don't have to insist anyone else sees it.

I remember hearing that too, but can't recall which dvd it was on.

And I'm sorry but how on Earth can anyone not see Jack/Thor!!!!! Good God one half of that pairing is stripped and ready for action all the time. And I'm pretty sure Thor is naked too...oh wait... that might be a dream I had.

[jdjunkie]

OMGOMG Jack/Thor!! No confirmation needed there, baby.

[discodiva]

I'm glad my preferred pairing is pure fanon. I don't have to insist anyone else sees it.

Ain't that the truth sistah!!!......



Deeds xx

[Petra]

Hmm. I'm not sure how seeing Sam and Jack in bed followed by any amount of team team team would satisfy any of us on this thread. It would, however, give me a jolly good reason not fork out hard-earned cash on the movie.

Seriously? You woudn't watch a perfectly good, teamy movie because of 30 seconds you can easily forward?

As to RDA and the ship, I remember him nixing "Give Sam my love" in 2010 (source, Essential Scripts) in favour of "Give her my best" (out of uniform at the time) and turning what should have been a kiss into a hug in TBFtGoG, (same source) and saying he wanted things left open (DVD behind-the-scenes, can't remember which ep or disc). Not your most ardent supporter.

Okay, I should have specified: "subtle ship". All these instances you mentioned above are considered to be very shippy and personally I like them more than the original ideas. Same goes for "Divide and conquer" - apparently there were some scripted lines in the"trapped behind the forcefield" scene but RDA and AT decided they were unnecessary and played without them. And shippers love them for it. Ditto on the "open ending".
Still, RDA most consistently addressed the ship issue, as I said always in favour of it provided it's subtle and in the background.

Also, AT has varied wildly on any kind of resolution from they should never be together to yes, let them have a one-night stand/roll in the hay/spend forever in the cabin. I can't blame her for changing her answers. She must be as hacked off with answering the same old questions all the time as we are listening the answers.

I wouldn't even dream of blaming her. I think she gave different answers depending on who asked the question and disliking her for it is just silly. Being a performer and keeping as many fans as possible happy is part of her job. Having said that I always got the impression she wasn't too keen on the idea.

I'm glad my preferred pairing is pure fanon. I don't have to insist anyone else sees it.

I don't insist that everybody has to see it. I'm rather perplexed how it's possible not to but to each their own.

Actually, I think you'll find that as of the most recent movie they are both pure fanon. As are most of the dozens and dozens of ship/slash pairings people like to imagine.
Just saying a thing over and over and over doesn't make it a fact, if that were true then the world would be full of people who had won the lottery!

You lost me. If it's not canon and in your opinion doesn't exist, than how can you be against it?

Jack and Sam worked well as part of a team imo, all four of them did. When you try to bring sex into that kind of relationship it never ends well. I enjoyed the Jack who thought of Daniel and Sam as 'his kids', that Jack from the early seasons just seemed so much more interesting to me. More real, more caring. A team leader you could trust and believe in. Not someone you thought might have a hidden agenda, or worse still, someone who might just 'play favourites' because of an illegal relationship with a subordinate officer.

I thought we were talking about the third movie. Jack hasn't been SG-1's leader for some 5 years now, he certainly won't be in the movie. And no one is denying that the four of them made an excellent team.

And I'm sorry but how on Earth can anyone not see Jack/Thor!!!!! Good God one half of that pairing is stripped and ready for action all the time. And I'm pretty sure Thor is naked too...oh wait... that might be a dream I had.

[Skadi]

Jack/Thor all the way! I sooo see it

I am also hoping for a team movie with no S/J ship whatsoever - though my personal economy would certainly benefit from a little of it in the movie, so I would have an excuse not to buy it

On a more personal note, I hope we will see both some Tok'ra and some Goa'uld in the movie, as they have always been the main reason for me to watch SG-1. I'm fine with it being new ones we have never seen before.

(Of course, in my dream of dreams, the next movie will show Martouf/Lantash alive and well and together with Sam forever... - but I will be more than happy with a team movie.)

[jdjunkie]

Seriously? You woudn't watch a perfectly good, teamy movie because of 30 seconds you can easily forward?


I don't insist that everybody has to see it. I'm rather perplexed how it's possible not to but to each their own.

Paragraph 1 : Yep. But then, this is the former anti-thread. That shouldn't surprise you.

Paragraph 2: Trust me, it's very easy not to see it. Or ignore it, even when it's being shoved own our throats. And that's why "confirmation" would kill my feelings for the show pretty much outright.

I'd be interested to see any examples you might have of RDA's support for the ship. I've never come across any. I have seen him looking pained, disinterested, constipated and uncomfortable in so-called shippy scenes though. Maybe that's where I'm getting my understanding of his views from.

[discodiva]

Paragraph 1 : Yep. But then, this is the former anti-thread. That shouldn't surprise you.

I do begin to wonder sometimes....

Paragraph 2: Trust me, it's very easy not to see it. Or ignore it, even when it's being shoved own our throats. And that's why "confirmation" would kill my feelings for the show pretty much outright.

Again, why should ANY fangroup feel more entitled to demand something than another?....I want Daniel to receive recognition and a medal for the work he has done in solving the Stargate riddle but I don't go around demanding/expecting/begging for it....

I'd be interested to see any examples you might have of RDA's support for the ship. I've never come across any. I have seen him looking pained, disinterested, constipated and uncomfortable in so-called shippy scenes though. Maybe that's where I'm getting my understanding of his views from.

Could be gas?....


Deeds xx

[jdjunkie]

I do begin to wonder sometimes....



Again, why should ANY fangroup feel more entitled to demand something than another?....I want Daniel to receive recognition and a medal for the work he has done in solving the Stargate riddle but I don't go around demanding/expecting/begging for it....



Could be gas?....


Deeds xx

Gas ... yep, that would explain a lot.