Jack O'Neill/ Sam Carter - Part of a team, not a ship

[DSG1]

Besides, hasn't Brad Wright always been one of the main backers of the S/J relationship?

Yup. He's the one who wanted Carter in the first place. Thats why he's writing the socalled 'romantic' scene for them in the 3rd movie. Again, there was no female lead in the movie except for Daniel's wife, there was no need for any female scientist on the original team. But, on TV show, along came Carter. Why have her if not for a love interest for the male lead? After watching this show for a really long time, and reading all the interviews etc, I got the impression that was the intent of Carter's character. Again, for the 3rd movie, they will be a romantic scene or scenes for all we know with Jack/Sam. Turns me right off. This is JUST my opinion, mind you.

[Callista]

Yup. He's the one who wanted Carter in the first place. Thats why he's writing the socalled 'romantic' scene for them in the 3rd movie. Again, there was no female lead in the movie except for Daniel's wife, there was no need for any female scientist on the original team. But, on TV show, along came Carter. Why have her if not for a love interest for the male lead? After watching this show for a really long time, and reading all the interviews etc, I got the impression that was the intent of Carter's character. Again, for the 3rd movie, they will be a romantic scene or scenes for all we know with Jack/Sam. Turns me right off. This is JUST my opinion, mind you.

I'm going to disagree with you on the bolded parts. (I'm assuming your objection is to the "female" part here rather than the "scientist" part, let me know if I've got that wrong.) While it may not seem necessary to have a female as part of the main cast, I'm very glad they chose this path. What I liked so much about Carter was that she was a scientist and a soldier who also happened to be a woman. I don't think the part required a female, but I think having a female added a lot to the show. We get a different perspective on many things that way and that's part of what I value in this program. I like that SG-1 is made up of very distinct parts. I think that's why we follow this team around rather than a team made up of solely soldiers or solely diplomats or solely scientists or even solely men from Earth. This team is different from the others and it's their very differences that make them the premier team.

As far as there being no lead female in the movie, that's pretty common. There seem to be far fewer opportunities for actresses than for actors except for in "romance" movies. I think that's a shame because there are certainly as many stories that could be told from a female point of view as there are to be told from a male's point of view.

Regardless, if it really is true that Sam was only cast as a female so that one of the males would have a love interest (regardless of which male it was) then I completely agree with Frostfox that I don't think I would want to watch this show at all and I'd be extremely disappointed in the entire production.

[madaboutdanny]

Yes. The only vocal one that I've seen. Although most of the writers don't really talk about ship much—I think Robert Cooper is a shipper, because I've seen him talk about Daniel/Vala, and possible Sam/Mitchell. Though I'm not sure about the latter; it might have been Peter Deluise.

On the subject of Sam's casting, I thought I heard an interview which said that they were thinking about a Sam/Daniel relationship once Sha're was killed off. I don't remember why they said they didn't do it, though.

No, I've read that they thougth D/S ship while Sha're was still alive, but Michael didnt like the idea of Daniel cheating on his wife.

[Khentkawes]

Besides, hasn't Brad Wright always been one of the main backers of the S/J relationship?

I'm not sure about that. I think he's recently leaned more in the shippy direction, and there have been some indications that he wrote some of the ship stuff. But until recently, he hasn't really talked about it in interviews. So I'm not sure.

Joe Mallozzi, however, has been playing to the shippers for a while now. I've heard plenty of shippers say that JM is their guy. He seems to be the one they trust.

Yes. The only vocal one that I've seen. Although most of the writers don't really talk about ship much—I think Robert Cooper is a shipper, because I've seen him talk about Daniel/Vala, and possible Sam/Mitchell. Though I'm not sure about the latter; it might have been Peter Deluise.

On the subject of Sam's casting, I thought I heard an interview which said that they were thinking about a Sam/Daniel relationship once Sha're was killed off. I don't remember why they said they didn't do it, though.

I love Rob Cooper. And I have my suspicions that he's not a die-hard shipper for anything, and only likes hints. But, again, I have nothing to go on except random suppositions and by looking at their writing and the interviews I've read.

I've never heard about the writers trying for a Sam/Daniel relationship. But I imagine that by the time Sha're died, TPTB felt that it was too late because nothing had happened up to that point. Plus, it wasn't long after Sha're's death that they started pushing S/J (I still don't see S/J before D&C. Not in our reality, at least).

[Frostfox]

Sam/Daniel were too much like brother and sister. The only ship I wouldn't have mind would have been Teal'c/Sam. I liked them together in Unending. Or even Baal/Sam, that could have been funny, if done correctly.

People do say that they have a sibling relationship, but most of the bothers and sisters I know fight like cat and dog, and I never saw Daniel and Sam doing that.

I'm going to disagree with you on the bolded parts. (I'm assuming your objection is to the "female" part here rather than the "scientist" part, let me know if I've got that wrong.) While it may not seem necessary to have a female as part of the main cast, I'm very glad they chose this path. What I liked so much about Carter was that she was a scientist and a soldier who also happened to be a woman. I don't think the part required a female, but I think having a female added a lot to the show. We get a different perspective on many things that way and that's part of what I value in this program. I like that SG-1 is made up of very distinct parts. I think that's why we follow this team around rather than a team made up of solely soldiers or solely diplomats or solely scientists or even solely men from Earth. This team is different from the others and it's their very differences that make them the premier team.

Bolded - I so agree, which is why it would be so sad to find out that her sole contribution was to be love interest (plus eye candy).

As far as there being no lead female in the movie, that's pretty common. There seem to be far fewer opportunities for actresses than for actors except for in "romance" movies. I think that's a shame because there are certainly as many stories that could be told from a female point of view as there are to be told from a male's point of view.

Regardless, if it really is true that Sam was only cast as a female so that one of the males would have a love interest (regardless of which male it was) then I completely agree with Frostfox that I don't think I would want to watch this show at all and I'd be extremely disappointed in the entire production.

I refuse to think they were that short sighted and closed minded and basically stupid.

No, I've read that they thougth D/S ship while Sha're was still alive, but Michael didn't like the idea of Daniel cheating on his wife.

It would have been out of character for him and also for Sam to chase a married man.

I'm not sure about that. I think he's recently leaned more in the shippy direction, and there have been some indications that he wrote some of the ship stuff. But until recently, he hasn't really talked about it in interviews. So I'm not sure.

Joe Mallozzi, however, has been playing to the shippers for a while now. I've heard plenty of shippers say that JM is their guy. He seems to be the one they trust.

Mallozzi has Issues & I don't trust a word he says.

I love Rob Cooper. And I have my suspicions that he's not a die-hard shipper for anything, and only likes hints. But, again, I have nothing to go on except random suppositions and by looking at their writing and the interviews I've read.

I've never heard about the writers trying for a Sam/Daniel relationship. But I imagine that by the time Sha're died, TPTB felt that it was too late because nothing had happened up to that point. Plus, it wasn't long after Sha're's death that they started pushing S/J (I still don't see S/J before D&C. Not in our reality, at least).

Whatever happens in the third film, the S/J fans had better be happy with what they get, I have a feeling it will be the Big Four's swan song.
My concern is that they will never be able to please all the fans. They kept the S/J fans hanging on too long, many of them have moved on to new fandoms. The rest of fandom either joined after Jack left so have no interest or think that other aspects of the show, such as, oh, The TEAM are more important than unconvincing romance and melodrama. I have memories of the Troi/Riker debacle bouncing about in my head, that was another melodrama dragged on long after it's staunchest fans had left for pastures new and it was heartily laughed at by fandom and general viewers alike.

FF

[jckfan55]

I agree more with the idea of Sam filling the "we must have a woman character" slot than that her purpose was to be 1/2 of a ship. She, of course, had to not only be a soldier and scientist, but beautiful also. Luckily, imho, AT is very believable.

Isn't it interesting that (generic) we think in terms of the woman's purpose being for ship but not the guy's. And the guys won't exactly break any cameras. I'm just saying.

[Frostfox]

I agree more with the idea of Sam filling the "we must have a woman character" slot than that her purpose was to be 1/2 of a ship. She, of course, had to not only be a soldier and scientist, but beautiful also. Luckily, imho, AT is very believable.

Isn't it interesting that (generic) we think in terms of the woman's purpose being for ship but not the guy's. And the guys won't exactly break any cameras. I'm just saying.

It's sad, we should have got rid of such things with Lost In Space's Maureen Robinson (a scientist who's main role was to be the mom, to do the cooking, to look after her manly husband and family). Forget Uhura, Kira Nerys, Dax, Susan Ivanova, Janeway, Kaylee and Zoe, Servalan, Number Six, Kara Thrace and all the other wonderful women who have graced SF since then.

SG1 is going to be remembered for lasting for ten seasons, rather than it's innovative character development or it's realistic portrayal of a woman in a man's world.

FF

[jdjunkie]

Mallozzi has Issues & I don't trust a word he says.

Which makes it all the more unbelievable that he seems to be regarded by shippers as their pet PTB.

He's strung them along for years with non-answers to shippy questions; whipped them up into a frenzy over scenes that were then deleted "for time" or some other spurious explanation. Seriously ... if TPTB had wanted that Trio scene in, it would have been in.

The man is a past master at playing the crowd. I'm amazed the shippers didn't suss him out years ago.

As to Sam being brought in specifically for shipping purposes ... I don't see that. I think they wanted a capable scientist and soldier who was also a woman, mainly for a degree of gender balance. And early seasons Sam was a great character, until you know what reared its ugly head. If they "go there" in movie #3, she'll be remembered as little more than the woman who finally snared her man. (Jack's getting older, he can't run so fast these days )

What a pity, when she could, and should, be remembered as a kick-ass female sci fi character. Ah, for seasons 1-3, eh Sam?

[Rachel500]

Just stopping in to drop off this link as I thought it might appeal

There was a Jack/Sam friendship ficathon on LJ recently...lots of good stories of varying lengths. No ship as the challenge was friendship and they are all pretty good reads (even if I do say so myself ).

Jack & Sam Friendathon

[Frostfox]

Just stopping in to drop off this link as I thought it might appeal

There was a Jack/Sam friendship ficathon on LJ recently...lots of good stories of varying lengths. No ship as the challenge was friendship and they are all pretty good reads (even if I do say so myself ).

Jack & Sam Friendathon

Thanks Rachel, seconding this, there is some good stuff there.

FF who should be cleaning out the grate and polishing the brass on the hearth but instead is futzing on the net and listening to Elaine Page on Sunday!

[jckfan55]

What a pity, when she could, and should, be remembered as a kick-ass female sci fi character. Ah, for seasons 1-3, eh Sam?

to be fair, there is some good Sam stuff past S3.

Thanks Rachel, seconding this, there is some good stuff there.

"Thirding" the S/J friendathon. So refreshing to see my 2 favorite characters in non-shippy stories.

[jckfan55]

One of my favorite fun moments with Sam and Jack is in the LIght when he's bet Daniel Sam will go check out the planet instead of taking leave but tells her it was a bet on sports and she's quizzing him. Just fun team banter, imho.

[Frostfox]

to be fair, there is some good Sam stuff past S3.

Oh, there is, there really is, I wouldn't have been able to stomach the series if there wasn't. But, sadly, loads of scenes which should be good Sam or good Sam & Jack interactions are tainted in later seasons with the stench of unwanted and unnecessary 'feeeeeling feeeeelings'. And that's mostly due to directing choices, more so than the scripts.

"Thirding" the S/J friendathon. So refreshing to see my 2 favorite characters in non-shippy stories.

There are too few about. Not many gen Sam stories out there anyway. Most gen writers seem to do Jack or Daniel or Jack and Daniel stuff. Not that it's a problem to me, but more variety is always good.

FF

[jdjunkie]

to be fair, there is some good Sam stuff past S3.

Indeed there is. One of my favourites is the scene where Jack gets her to shoot her P-90 at a swinging log thing (was it The Warrior? I'm hopeless at at ep titles) and that was much later. It's just that a lot of scenes (for me) in season 4 and beyond were heavily tainted. I watched her with nothing but enjoyment in the first three seasons.

[Snotr]

Indeed there is. One of my favourites is the scene where Jack gets her to shoot her P-90 at a swinging log thing (was it The Warrior? I'm hopeless at at ep titles) and that was much later. It's just that a lot of scenes (for me) in season 4 and beyond were heavily tainted. I watched her with nothing but enjoyment in the first three seasons.

Yes, I agree, that is a great scene. There are some good Sam scenes after season 3, but generally too few for me to bother traversing the rest of the episodes there. I rewatch 1-3 and then a select few from the other seasons. The rest is AU, in my universe