Jack O'Neill/ Sam Carter - Part of a team, not a ship

[Frostfox]

I think in the early seasons we got a good team dynamic with Sam and Jack. It might be fun to remember some of the good times. What are people's favorite examples of them working well together, joking or generally being non-shippy?

Good idea!

I don't know if I can think of any examples post-S3. But pre-S4 there were several. Solitudes for one - I really like this episode, and though I suppose some may see it as shippy, I always saw it as team leader and new team member. Um. I always thought his teasing of her at the end of Broca Divide was funny. Emancipation - I know a lot of people hate this episode, but I always enjoyed watching Sam kick butt, and Jack trying to give her relatively worthless pointers beforehand. Oh yeah! When they all woke up in the cell in Within The Serpent's Grasp, and she bit his hand.

Um. I guess those are all S1 examples. Let me get back to you on examples that are not S1.

I love Solitudes, it's one of my favouite episodes and you do it a great disservice if you view Sam and Jack on the ice as romantic; it's much more important than that. It's about team and team bonding at it's most selfless.

There was lots of good Sam and Jack interaction in the early seasons, the team's distress in Fire & Water when Daniel is 'dead'. Jack hugs Sam and it's not like the later seasons, it's not like the hug in Heroes, which should have been about Sam and Janet but was played as being all about Sam 'n Sir. The hug in Fire & Water was all about Sam's distress over losing her friend and it worked, on every level.

Feisty!Sam in Within The Serpent's Grasp was cool! Go Sam!

I can't say the whole of the first three seasons were S/J free, they had Jack ogling Sam when naked in Out of Mind, it was a bit creepy. Any boss looking like that at me would be sans one pair of nuts. But everything before Divide and Conquer can be happily ignored by those of us who love the team rather than the soap opera.

It's ages since I watched early season SG1 (or any SG1 for that matter) mostly now I just stick to fanfic, it gives me what I'm looking for.

FF

[DSG1]

In the original movie, there was no female love interest for Jack, none. Amanda Tapping was hired solely, to be Jack's love interest or else, there was no need for a female on the team. But, of course on a tv show must have love interests, they have the romance so the kiddies will watch. I was never a fan of girlie Carter. I liked her in episodes like Death Knell and even Entity because she was strong not girlie. That's the only problem I have with the character. I cringed at the Pete love interest because I felt it didn't fit. She would just dump Jack to be with a total stranger? And, I always found it a disturbing that Tapping said Carter was a loser on her commentaries because she didn't have a man attached to her arm.

[Frostfox]

In the original movie, there was no female love interest for Jack, none. Amanda Tapping was hired solely, to be Jack's love interest or else, there was no need for a female on the team. But, of course on a tv show must have love interests, they have the romance so the kiddies will watch. I was never a fan of girlie Carter. I liked her in episodes like Death Knell and even Entity because she was strong not girlie. That's the only problem I have with the character. I cringed at the Pete love interest because I felt it didn't fit. She would just dump Jack to be with a total stranger? And, I always found it a disturbing that Tapping said Carter was a loser on her commentaries because she didn't have a man attached to her arm.

Oh heavens, I hope not! I hope they didn't add Sam just to be the love interest, that would be pathetic.

FF

[DSG1]

Oh heavens, I hope not! I hope they didn't add Sam just to be the love interest, that would be pathetic.

FF

Brad Write said it himself, basically, that's why they needed Carter besides being a scientist, they needed a 'beautiful' woman now why else would they need a 'beautiful' woman? if not a love interest for O'Neill? I dont have the link to the video but I saw it on YT tho.

[fyere]

Oh heavens, I hope not! I hope they didn't add Sam just to be the love interest, that would be pathetic.

They made AT audition with RDA to see if they made a good-looking couple. So...basically.

[Callista]

They made AT audition with RDA to see if they made a good-looking couple. So...basically.

Really?

I must say I'm kind of surprised by that. I never really got the impression that they were going for the J/S ship right from the start. I thought that it was something they came up with later. (Although, they did start the AU S/J shipping right from the first season in There But For The Grace Of God.)

I don't think anything of hiring an attractive female for the role of Carter, though. I'm glad they have an intelligent woman on the team, and given that this is a TV show, was it ever likely they'd pick someone unattractive for a lead role? I mean, look at the guys! Looks must have had some consideration here for all of them.

[Frostfox]

They made AT audition with RDA to see if they made a good-looking couple. So...basically.

But they got MS to stand with RDA too (which is much more my idea of a good-looking couple ) and I would assume they did the same for CJ too. That would imply that they checked that all the actors looked okay with their lead?

FF

[DSG1]

They made AT audition with RDA to see if they made a good-looking couple. So...basically.

Yup, RDA practically hand picked her himself. So basically, it was a setup from the beginning. Thats why they were so many shippy eps at the beginning then Amanda got tired of it or something so they stopped by season 5??? And started it up again by what, season 7???

[Killdeer]

There was lots of good Sam and Jack interaction in the early seasons, the team's distress in Fire & Water when Daniel is 'dead'. Jack hugs Sam and it's not like the later seasons, it's not like the hug in Heroes, which should have been about Sam and Janet but was played as being all about Sam 'n Sir. The hug in Fire & Water was all about Sam's distress over losing her friend and it worked, on every level.

Oh yeah, that's another good moment - forgot about that one. It's also S1 though. Sorry, can't think of any good moments past S1.

Feisty!Sam in Within The Serpent's Grasp was cool! Go Sam!

I love that scene - I loved that Sam. I just have a hard time reconciling that Sam with the Sam of later seasons, S7 and on particularly.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...-naked-guy.jpg

*dies*

Yup, RDA practically hand picked her himself. So basically, it was a setup from the beginning. Thats why they were so many shippy eps at the beginning then Amanda got tired of it or something so they stopped by season 5??? And started it up again by what, season 7???

See I don't see the first three seasons as particularly shippy. There were moments here and there - the two alternate universes, Hundred Days... But it wasn't a big deal until D&C. Then....yeah. Wish they hadn't gone there.

I do agree they seemed to drop it mostly for S5-6 (as far as I can remember anyway) before picking it up again in S7.

[LoneStar1836]

Brad Write said it himself, basically, that's why they needed Carter besides being a scientist, they needed a 'beautiful' woman now why else would they need a 'beautiful' woman? if not a love interest for O'Neill? I dont have the link to the video but I saw it on YT tho.

Well I wouldn't interpret that as an automatic confirmation that Sam was intended to be a love interest because honestly I don't think she was conceived that way. Or at least I hope that was not an original intention for the character's creation.

IMO, they needed AT to fill the quota for a lead woman on the show. That's what he more than likely means by the "beautiful woman" quote. I'd have to see the whole thing to get a better interpretation, but the show lacked a female lead. This was a tv show and not a one off action movie (Stargate) that didn't require a female lead.

It's a crying shame that they eventually resorted to shipping as major aspect of the character though because they didn't know what else to do with her. I don't think Stargate writers are that adept at writing female characters anyway, whether it be on SG-1 or SGA.

[Killdeer]

Besides, hasn't Brad Wright always been one of the main backers of the S/J relationship?

[LoneStar1836]

Besides, hasn't Brad Wright always been one of the main backers of the S/J relationship?

Has he?

I don't keep up with interviews and the such so I only know what some of them (tptb and actors) say when people post quotes in a thread I might read.

Well I'd still like to believe that the character of Carter was not conceived with shipping her with the lead male in mind.

Of course I could very well be wrong, but that would really show how limited a sight they had if that was one of the few things they could envision for the character on the show.

[MerryK]

Besides, hasn't Brad Wright always been one of the main backers of the S/J relationship?

Yes. The only vocal one that I've seen. Although most of the writers don't really talk about ship much—I think Robert Cooper is a shipper, because I've seen him talk about Daniel/Vala, and possible Sam/Mitchell. Though I'm not sure about the latter; it might have been Peter Deluise.

On the subject of Sam's casting, I thought I heard an interview which said that they were thinking about a Sam/Daniel relationship once Sha're was killed off. I don't remember why they said they didn't do it, though.

[Frostfox]

Well I wouldn't interpret that as an automatic confirmation that Sam was intended to be a love interest because honestly I don't think she was conceived that way. Or at least I hope that was not an original intention for the character's creation.

IMO, they needed AT to fill the quota for a lead woman on the show. That's what he more than likely means by the "beautiful woman" quote. I'd have to see the whole thing to get a better interpretation, but the show lacked a female lead. This was a tv show and not a one off action movie (Stargate) that didn't require a female lead.

It's a crying shame that they eventually resorted to shipping as major aspect of the character though because they didn't know what else to do with her. I don't think Stargate writers are that adept at writing female characters anyway, whether it be on SG-1 or SGA.

Has he?

I don't keep up with interviews and the such so I only know what some of them (tptb and actors) say when people post quotes in a thread I might read.

Well I'd still like to believe that the character of Carter was not conceived with shipping her with the lead male in mind.

Of course I could very well be wrong, but that would really show how limited a sight they had if that was one of the few things they could envision for the character on the show.

Oh yes, I'm going to put my fingers in my ears and go la-la-la at the idea of Sam only being introduced to be the love interest of Jack. I don't think I could watch the show ever again if I thought that had been the plan from day one. I don't like to think that TPTB were that crass, misogynistic or dumb. And I really don't like to think that it was Sam's raison d'être. Sam and AT deserve more than that. The fans deserve more than that. Ten seasons and she's doomed from season one to be the love interest? Shudder.

Yes. The only vocal one that I've seen. Although most of the writers don't really talk about ship much—I think Robert Cooper is a shipper, because I've seen him talk about Daniel/Vala, and possible Sam/Mitchell. Though I'm not sure about the latter; it might have been Peter Deluise.

On the subject of Sam's casting, I thought I heard an interview which said that they were thinking about a Sam/Daniel relationship once Sha're was killed off. I don't remember why they said they didn't do it, though.

I didn't want any relationships between the principal characters, I can see Sam/Daniel being fraught with many of the same issues as Sam/Jack. But at least MS might have looked less constipated when doing 'romantic' scenes.

Let us play spot the difference.

Picture of a man with his family.
http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/dis...um=161&pos=327

Picture of a man who'd rather be anywhere else but there when being mithered to talk about feeeelings while his brain slowly implodes.
http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/dis...um=161&pos=338

FF

[DSG1]

Sam/Daniel were too much like brother and sister. The only ship I wouldn't have mind would have been Teal'c/Sam. I liked them together in Unending. Or even Baal/Sam, that could have been funny, if done correctly.