Jack O'Neill/ Sam Carter - Part of a team, not a ship

[ShadowMaat]

Hey, someone had to start it. May as well be me.

OK, as before, this thread if for folks who don't like Sam/Jack ship. It isn't open for discussion. No coming here to rant and rave about how Sam and Jack were Made For Each Other. No saying we're blind for not "seeing" ship. Try to keep it polite. Try not to bash people or opinions, but also try and have fun.

[the_fours]

glad this thread was saved, i didnt mid ship to much when it was subtle and left to the fan to interprete, but now that they are forcing it down our necks i feel its a bit of shame personally i think the show is fine for now as long as they dont destroy it by puting jack and sam together. not only would they have 'jumped the shark' they would have gone over a hump backed whale at the same time

[Dani347]

Ah, my second favorite thread. Personally, I will never like or support Jack and Sam together. But, I could tolerate/ignore it when it wasn't blantant on screen. The J/S shippers could have their fun, and I could be oblivious to it. Now, I have to watch it, (if I'm going to watch anything else I like about the show) and I don't want to. And, I should say that I'm using ship as an all purpose thing to describe outside characters realising that something is going on, to Sam mooning over her superior officer to anything of that sort. Anything that suggest with a neon sign that there is or could be something romantic between them just makes me sick.

[Madeleine]

In a spirit of positivity, here are two of my favourite Jack & Sam bits which definitely aren't shippy (or at least aren't shippy unless you want them to be, which is the same thing to us and which the shippers still seem to like, so surely a Very Good Thing.)

Solitudes - the whole thing with her getting all stressy and him steadying her; and then later when he is in a bad way she does the reassuring for him. V sweet. And one of the few times when Jack opens up to her about his private life.

Serpent's Lair - when Sam wakes up blind and scared, and bites Jack. And Jack, again, tries to reassure her and makes her laugh.

Any others, anyone?

[keshou]

Yay! One of my favorite threads (I like the sarcastic people).

Although I'm not a huge fan of Sam/Jack ship, I *do* like them very much as friends. In the spirit of positivity here's some more nice Sam/Jack moments :

The lovely scene in Deathknell, when Jack offers Sam a shoulder to lean on. It was scene that could be taken anyway you wanted but I took it as a friend providing comfort after a harrowing ordeal and it left me with warm friendly fuzzies.

The elevator scene in Chimera. I loved Jack teasing Sam about her "hum-worthy" boyfriend.

One of my favorite scenes is when Jack and Sam are running down the corridor in "Enemies"
Jack O'Neill: Carter. How do you know where to go in a place like this?
Sam Carter: I studied the Tok'ra specs of the ship while we were on Vorash.
Jack O'Neill: You know how to have a good time, don't you?
Sam Carter: Having a good time now, sir.
Jack O'Neill: You go, girl.

I love Sam and Jack in these scenes. Just don't buy the romance.

[Gategrrl]

Sorry, I don't get any enjoyment out of any s7 Jack and Sam scenes, not even if they're "cute". ESPECIALLY if they are "cute" because to me, it's smeared with the gooey shippiness TPTB are plastering them with.

And, also in the spirit of positiveness, I prefer the Sam of the earlier seasons.

I just don't want these shiny happy moments devolve into attempts to tell anti-Jack'n'Shippers that you don't have to see the ship even if you detest it. I don't have many happy shiny s7 Sam moments, since for me, that character has kiboshed a lot of my enjoyment of that season.

[ShadowMaat]

Sam doesn't feel "strong" to me, anymore. She feels like a male chavanist's cliche of a girl (not a woman)- ruled by her wishy-washy emotions and lacking any real backbone about it.

Ship was better when I could ignore it... and when the characters remained true to themselves in spite of any open-to-interpretation "romantic" feelings.

[Madeleine]

Gategrrl, I'm just mad jealous of those antishippers and noromos who *don't* see ship in s7. I want some of whatever it is they're on .

In the meantime, there's always s1-6 or the ff button on the remote...

[Gategrrl]

Madeleine, I don't know anyone who dislikes the J&S ship who can't see it anymore. It's full frontal.

And, I can't rewatch much of season 7 on FF because of the way Sam has been pushed forward since the beginning of the season as Jack's New Best Friend, and his Old Previously Dead Best Friend has been pushed back into wall-covering.

Even in Fragile Balance, which I liked a lot, I noticed soon after how much Sam is pushed forward to talk to Jack about his medical condition, how Daniel (uncharacteristically) pushed Sam forward to tell the clone he wasn't the Real Jack, how Jack didn't even look at Daniel or Teal'c when they were on the Asgard ship...

Sam isn't a lead, she was NEVER a lead, and having Jack hauling the show in tandem, in absentia, with Sam, just about kills the show for me. It's jumped the shark for me.

[Major Clanger]

Even in Fragile Balance, which I liked a lot, I noticed soon after how much Sam is pushed forward to talk to Jack about his medical condition, how Daniel (uncharacteristically) pushed Sam forward to tell the clone he wasn't the Real Jack, how Jack didn't even look at Daniel or Teal'c when they were on the Asgard ship...

Yes, but to be fair, Daniel pushing Sam forward is just a sort of cliché male behaviour thing... the woman giving the bad news. And even if it wasn't, it's not fun to be the one to give the bad news, so it's not surprising that Daniel didn't want to do it.

Even in S7 though, I managed to ignore a lot of ship, just by pretending it wasn't there. But most of it was pretty upfront and couldn't be avoided.

[xayeidemon]

I plan on taking up residence here.

I can't STAND the way Sam's been portrayed lately. I have never seen any romantic chemistry between Jack and Sam. Never. Even when TPTB were constantly bopping us over the head with the innuendo, I still didn't see it. Now, to have this shoved down all the fans' throats whether they like it or not, is rather insulting. I can't choose to ignore ship anymore. So I ***** and whine about it.

[Teal'c]

Annoucement: About to make a post that doesn't shine blinding praise upon TPTB :O

SPOILERS Everything up to Lost City Part 2 (Spoilers start a bit down from here)

Sam & Jack: I admit, I saw a chemistry between them, more than between her and Daniel, where it's purely plutonic. But I only noticed it sometimes, A Hundred Days being the most obvious at first (It was concern for a friend, but her little look to [or rather away from] Laria was a nod to ship). Then for Divide & Conquer, I thought it made a very good plot device, and was kinda put to rest there. It was OK in BtS (I'm very glad they left out the kiss scene), and the only part of Entity I didn't like is when Hammond gave that "she means a lot to you" bit.

I like the "shippy" scenes with Sam & Jack, like in Proving Ground or Fragile Balance. I mean, it's really just a bit of fun between them rather then them expressing their deep desires to be with one another

I must admit that the best thing ship ever did was the locker room scene from Paradise Lost, I just loved that so much.

And then onto the latter half of Season 7:

Eps was ship was ok:
Grace [It was the plot of the episode ]
Chimera [The elevator scene was great, the second one not so great, but the elevator scene cancelled it out ]
Death Knell [I didn't really find it that shippy, just a good end shot]
Heroes Part 2 [Wasn't really ship, Sam was just crying in everyone's arms]
Lost City Part 2 [Mainly because we finally saw the Tel'tac engine room ]

Eps where it wasn't ok:
Evolution Part 2 [Just didn't like it, seemed a bit tacked on, but Teal'c's patented dive made up for it ]
Heroes Part 1 [I really didn't like that interview... luckily Chevron Guy gave the best interview ever!]
Inauguration [Kinsey got REALLY desperate there ]
Lost City Part 1 [The awkward scene was just awkward to watch, until Daniel broke the tension ]

In closing, I'm hoping it can be done well in Season 8, not thrown in our faces like those couple of episodes. So yes, those are 4 scenes where I questioned the PTB, but I trust them for Season 8

[Gategrrl]

Yes, but to be fair, Daniel pushing Sam forward is just a sort of cliché male behaviour thing... the woman giving the bad news. And even if it wasn't, it's not fun to be the one to give the bad news, so it's not surprising that Daniel didn't want to do it.

Even in S7 though, I managed to ignore a lot of ship, just by pretending it wasn't there. But most of it was pretty upfront and couldn't be avoided.

Aw, jeez, I copied a previous reply that didn't make it ... some problem with the GW memory or something. *sigh*

Anyhow, MC, that's the key word there: cliche. Daniel has always confronted Jack about anything and everything. In Abyss. In Shades of Gray. In Red Sky. In etc etc etc.

In order to push the wonderful nonLead Sam into the forefront as Jack's Best Buddy and confidante, the PTB have made Daniel act out of character. Even in season 6, which Daniel was barely in, he and Jack had dialogue going. In season 7, nada. Jack can't make the connection to Daniel in Fallen. No, wonderful Sam does. Daniel can't break the news to miniJack. Nope, the everpresent Sam does. Daniel can't be allowed to talk to that man who lost his wife he can't remember (kinda like Daniel!!) in Revisions -- nope, because all-things-to-all-people Sam does!

Sam, using the guise of ship, has managed to horn in on every significant relationship that doesn't involve her on the show.

I really really really don't like Sam, and I think her ship with Jack is despicable.

[Gategrrl]

In closing, I'm hoping it can be done well in Season 8, not thrown in our faces like those couple of episodes. So yes, those are 4 scenes where I questioned the PTB, but I trust them for Season 8

Teal'c, to a lot of folks, me included, ship has been in our face full on for a lot of eps, and I personally don't find it an attractive thing. You only question it in four scenes out the whole of season 7?

Um...Grace? -- a sorry excuse for "character development"
How about the last scene in The Lost City? It ruined it for a lot of people.

Any way it's in the show is a detriment.

I think from your posting you really aren't an anti-J&S shipper, since you don't think the ship is bad per se. You just don't like the context of some of the scenes.

[Madeleine]

I think from your posting you really aren't an anti-J&S shipper, since you don't think the ship is bad per se. You just don't like the context of some of the scenes.

Hey, given that it's the ol' Sholvah posting there, that post is a Stout Vindication of Anti-Shipness. Teal'c *never* criticises the show. If he were to be any more critical of S/J than he just was, then his head would probably fall off

I'm hoping it can be done well in Season 8, not thrown in our faces like those couple of episodes.

You're getting there! Stick around, we'll work on you... Just have the sellotape ready so your head doesn't fall off.