Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[Lys]

OK, don't jump on me all at one, one at a time, please.

Have you ever considered, TPTB are trying to make Sam more "fallible" and thus more human? For the first 7 seasons, Sam was always there to save the day. How many times times did Jack or Daniel say "Sam'll figure it out". Being too smart and right all the time can not only get boring, but can irritate people and from what I've read on other threads, there are many (gasp, say it ain't true), who dislike the character of Samantha Carter.

After watching the entire 8th season of SG-1 yesterday, I was struck by introduction of fallibilty in Sam's character, and I liked it. She is not perfect, and I don't think anyone here wants her to be. At least I don't. I want to see more of her humanity. I know, she has demonstrated this before, in other seasons, such as in Singularity, but she still was being written as the know it all scientist with all the answers. Didn't we learn anything from early McKay?

Please, give me feedback. I'm always interested in what you have to say, as this is most definitely the most intelligent thread on GW.

That's it, just my rather weak 2 cents.

I don't want Sam to be perfect either. I don't want SuperSam (except in this wonderfull manip one of our dear artists made here ).
But I don't think Sam showing vulnerability equals with Sam screwing up everything. I hope Sam will be the team leader when she comes back. Yes, I know I'm an incorrigible optimist. She's going to face the same situations as Jack before. Jack's main weakness was Charlie and his guilt after his son's death. That's why First tried to gain all knowledge from him by using memories of Charlie for example. Does this mean that Jack screwed up ? No. He made the right choice (in my opinion). He remained strong. How is it that Sam isn't allowed to show weakness and to overcome it like Jack ? She's strong enough to do it.

I want Sam to show her humanity, to show she has weaknesses to accept them and to overcome them. I don't want tension within the team. I want friendship. That's why I'd really like to see Sam making a hard choice against the wills of one of the guys (I'm thinking of Daniel here, he's the most stubborn of all of them ) because she knows it's the best for them even if she's going to jeopardize their friendship.

I for sure don't want Sam to show weakness for the sake of been weak because she's the woman. If that's how TPTB think of character development for Sam, I'd rather have SuperSam. We have SuperDaniel who speaks 23 or more languages, understands every alien writing without any book or reference to translate them, SuperTeal'c who knows everything about Goa'uld technology and culture, SuperJack who never misses a target and is a formidable team leader, why not SuperSam ?

[Lys]

I know I'm off-topic, but is it me or the forum is all upside down ? I have a really weird time, the posts are all messed. What's going on ?

[jckfan55]

Well in that case Sam is a pilot because I decide that I like Sam as a Fighter Pilot

*cough* 11000 *cough*

I can buy that. Just because she wasn't allowed to fly an F16 in *combat* doesn't mean she couldn't have trained in one. But I do see her more as a tech person on one of those AWACs planes for the Gulf War. She still could have been in enemy air space. Just look at the latest US situation, lots of women are in combat areas even though they aren't supposed to be "in combat."
Also I did look up whether the Radar Intercept Officer, who sits in the 2nd seat and does navigation, etc (as we've seen Sam do in the F302) (Ok, I learned the term from JAG) is considered a pilot. Apparently that person is an *aviator* but not a pilot.

[Atteria]

I don't want Sam to be perfect either. I don't want SuperSam (except in this wonderfull manip one of our dear artists made here ).
But I don't think Sam showing vulnerability equals with Sam screwing up everything. I hope Sam will be the team leader when she comes back. Yes, I know I'm an incorrigible optimist. She's going to face the same situations as Jack before. Jack's main weakness was Charlie and his guilt after his son's death. That's why First tried to gain all knowledge from him by using memories of Charlie for example. Does this mean that Jack screwed up ? No. He made the right choice (in my opinion). He remained strong. How is it that Sam isn't allowed to show weakness and to overcome it like Jack ? She's strong enough to do it.

I want Sam to show her humanity, to show she has weaknesses to accept them and to overcome them. I don't want tension within the team. I want friendship. That's why I'd really like to see Sam making a hard choice against the wills of one of the guys (I'm thinking of Daniel here, he's the most stubborn of all of them ) because she knows it's the best for them even if she's going to jeopardize their friendship.

I for sure don't want Sam to show weakness for the sake of been weak because she's the woman. If that's how TPTB think of character development for Sam, I'd rather have SuperSam. We have SuperDaniel who speaks 23 or more languages, understands every alien writing without any book or reference to translate them, SuperTeal'c who knows everything about Goa'uld technology and culture, SuperJack who never misses a target and is a formidable team leader, why not SuperSam ?

All the characters have their weaknesses and character flaws. I don't see Jack as "super Jack", and I don't see Teal'c as infallible. I don't want Sam to be weak, just not the "plu" perfect Air Force officer and scientist, who always has the answer. In my opinion, her actions in Gemini showed her human side, and Jack even acknowledged she didn't do anything he hadn't sanctioned.

And I don't see how Sam becoming less than perfect, will affect the team dynamics. How will this create tension within the team? We are beginning a new chapter in SG-1, and I guess we'll have to wait to see how it plays out. Personally, I'm getting a little tired of Daniel and his morality and always being able to decipher Ancient text, etc. No one is or should be perfect, not even in SciFi.

Sorry if that sounds harsh. I love the character of Sam Carter. I just would like to see her written with more reality and less "fantasy". But I guess I'm in the minority. And as for her being a women, I never once thought of that. She is a equal member of the SG-1 team, period.

[Atteria]

I know I'm off-topic, but is it me or the forum is all upside down ? I have a really weird time, the posts are all messed. What's going on ?

No Lys, it's not you, the forum is really screwed up today.

[chocdoc]

Yes well you should have heard what AT had to say or not say verbally but say a lot with looks about the S8 shots. When she was at the Burbank Con last year one of the pics was made into a banner and it started with Carmen making a joke about AT's banner and how she has blossomed and then everyone after that made a comment. AT came on stage took one look and said "Stargate Barbie".

I will be at Comic Con next week and will do my best to get some good pictures. I will definalty post any and all information as soon as I can get online. Probably Sunday since I have a gig early Sunday morning so I have to drive back home (6hours north of San Deigo) Saturday night.

Thanks for doing this. Can't wait to hear how the panel goes at Comic Con. I hope you get a sense of how AT views how Sam has been written in season 9 so far.

Hope you have a great time at Burbank Con!

[chocdoc]

in a way, i don't mind her being fallible. in fact, i think it could be a cool idea

i just need to resign myself that there are some sam-haters out there that will tear apart anything she does. she makes a mistake, she's drawn and quartered, she saves the day, she's reamed for being perfect

they hate her and seemingly have no lack of enthusiasm for tearing her apart and will bend and twist anything and everything she does to be negative in some way

whatever. if they really got nothing better to do with thier lives than to spend it ripping apart a fictional character, what am i do to? i for one DO have bigger and better things to do with my life and my interests do extend a bit beyond hating a fictional character

I agree comletely. I can't worry about these few sam-haters when I read these spoilers. It just doesn't matter what she does---if you really dislike a character, you can take anything they do and make it look bad. I'm sure some daniel-haters do the same thing. And already there are some fans who dislike Mitchell and Vala. What can you do.

What I do care about is how Sam fans and Sam friendly fans view these spoilers, and as well how AT is viewing the way the writers are handling Sam in season 9. I hope we get some indication of this at some point.

When I read the Beach Head spoilers---I felt like others--I groaned a bit. If Sam makes a mistake, and Vala saves the day, this may make me sick!! I think like others though that Sam may be hesitant to follow orders, but has to. What I really hope is that the team and Vala work together to solve the problem such that no character, particularly Sam in this case, gets sacrificed for the plot (again!).

[Lys]

All the characters have their weaknesses and character flaws. I don't see Jack as "super Jack", and I don't see Teal'c as infallible. I don't want Sam to be weak, just not the "plu" perfect Air Force officer and scientist, who always has the answer. In my opinion, her actions in Gemini showed her human side, and Jack even acknowledged she didn't do anything he hadn't sanctioned.

And I don't see how Sam becoming less than perfect, will affect the team dynamics. How will this create tension within the team? We are beginning a new chapter in SG-1, and I guess we'll have to wait to see how it plays out. Personally, I'm getting a little tired of Daniel and his morality and always being able to decipher Ancient text, etc. No one is or should be perfect, not even in SciFi.

Sorry if that sounds harsh. I love the character of Sam Carter. I just would like to see her written with more reality and less "fantasy". But I guess I'm in the minority. And as for her being a women, I never once thought of that. She is a equal member of the SG-1 team, period.

I think there's a bit of misunderstanding there. I'm sure I didn't phrase things exactly like I meant.
I'm not saying that I want Sam to be strong and "super". I want her to be realistic. If this means to have and show weaknesses, I agree. What I wanted to say is that I'm afraid TPTB are going to show Sam's weaknesses by making her screwing up everything. That's not what I want to see.
As for the tension in the team, I don't want to see it. I want Sam to show weaknesses or strength without this extra tension. Dealing with the Ori will bring enough satisfying tension for my taste.
And SuperJack, Daniel and Teal'c were there only because I don't often hear anyone complain when they act really smart and tough. I understand that it's for the benefit of the plot and that's fine with me.

I hope I'm clearer this time.

[Atteria]

Thank you all for bearing with me today. I've been in a horrible mood and should not have posted. Unfortunately, I did, and not just here.

I don't know when I'll be back. RL just keeps dealing me blows and I've reached the point I'm not handling them well. The meds are wrecking havoc with my system and I've receive other bad news. Not going to bore you with any of it. This place should be fun and I'm not fun right now.

Please, keep the flame of Samanda going!

Lys, if I said anything to offend you, pease forgive me. I think we both want the same for Sam. And I promise, somehow, I will make that Bastille Day feast for you!

To everyone else, keep posting about our glorious queen. I'll try to return asap. I'll miss you all.

[Lys]

Thank you all for bearing with me today. I've been in a horrible mood and should not have posted. Unfortunately, I did, and not just here.

I don't know when I'll be back. RL just keeps dealing me blows and I've reached the point I'm not handling them well. The meds are wrecking havoc with my system and I've receive other bad news. Not going to bore you with any of it. This place should be fun and I'm not fun right now.

Please, keep the flame of Samanda going!

Lys, if I said anything to offend you, pease forgive me. I think we both want the same for Sam. And I promise, somehow, I will make that Bastille Day feast for you!

To everyone else, keep posting about our glorious queen. I'll try to return asap. I'll miss you all.

You didn't offend me at all ! I'm the one who's going to ask for forgiveness. I know I can be sometimes a little "cryptic" with my English One of my friends said it was "poetic" .

Atteria I wish you lots of better days and a full recovery.
Take care of you and all my best wishes and sympathy to you.

Hic Comitas Regit

[1speed4Sam]

No Lys, it's not you, the forum is really screwed up today.

I'm so pleased. I thought it was just me. (See post 11054, which was actually posted about 5 hours ago. Or am I the only one who can see it?).

Anyway, if anybody still cares, I've been out and drunk slightly more than was sensible, and listened to / watched / been pummelled by a Motorhead-inspired covers band.

I think I've now got my head back together.

In which case, can somebody please explain - FCOL, what was "The Gamekeeper" all about?!!!

1speed

[Lys]

I'm so pleased. I thought it was just me.

If anybody still cares, I've been out and drunk slightly more than was sensible, and listened to / watched / been pummelled by a Motorhead- inspired covers band.

I think I've now got my head back together.

In which case, can somebody please explain - FCOL, what was "The Gamekeeper" all about?!!!

1speed

First thing : some aspirin for you :

Then, if I remember, the Gamekeeper was about a very nice garden with beautiful flowers and how it was very important to save them. Welcome to the first ecological episode of SG1 my dear 1speed4Sam !
More seriously, it was about Jack and Daniel pasts, their history and the impact on their character of a mission gone wrong for Jack and the loss of his parents for Daniel. Once you're going to reach some later episodes you'll understand the impact of such events on them. It was a character development episode but I agree, not the best one.

[Strix varia]

All the characters have their weaknesses and character flaws. I don't see Jack as "super Jack", and I don't see Teal'c as infallible. I don't want Sam to be weak, just not the "plu" perfect Air Force officer and scientist, who always has the answer. In my opinion, her actions in Gemini showed her human side, and Jack even acknowledged she didn't do anything he hadn't sanctioned.

And I don't see how Sam becoming less than perfect, will affect the team dynamics. How will this create tension within the team? We are beginning a new chapter in SG-1, and I guess we'll have to wait to see how it plays out. Personally, I'm getting a little tired of Daniel and his morality and always being able to decipher Ancient text, etc. No one is or should be perfect, not even in SciFi.

Sorry if that sounds harsh. I love the character of Sam Carter. I just would like to see her written with more reality and less "fantasy". But I guess I'm in the minority. And as for her being a women, I never once thought of that. She is a equal member of the SG-1 team, period.

When I say I want Sam to be competent, I don't mean that I want her to be perfect. From my Oxford pocket dictionary: "Competent - Having the ability or authority to do what is required; adequate." To my mind, there's a big difference between competence and perfection.

But I guess we do have a difference of opinion on whether or not Sam is portrayed realistically or not. I think TPTB have created a wonderful character that *is* believable given the context of the show, where the other characters are equally larger than life. (And if they decide they have to bring one character down to the level of "completely realistic," I sure hope they'll bring all of them down at the same time.) There are some pretty amazingly competent women out there in the world, and I have to wonder if these extreme critics (not meaning you, Atteria) have ever read read the biographies of some of our female astronauts if they don't think that women can be brilliant, beautiful, and perform with competence in high stress situations.

What I don't want to see is a great character brought down because a contingent of fans view her as "too perfect" or because they want to promote other characters. If the TPTB want to promote Cam and Vala, I'm really fine with that. I do think I'm going to like both of their characters. I just don't want them to make a fool of Sam so Vala can steal the spotlight... I don't want that anymore than I'd want them to make a fool of Daniel, Teal'c, or Jack to make Sam look like a hero.

I guess all I'm trying to say is that I want Sam to be the competent officer and scientist they have already shown she can be. I don't want TPTB to "dumbassify" her in order to prove she can make mistakes. I don't want them to have her making incompetent decisions just to show she isn't perfect. They've already shown, repeatedly, that she is quite capable of screwing up both at work and in her private life. But the complaints about her perfection persist, and I don't want TPTB to keep setting her up for failure until they've dragged her so far down that she loses all respect just to prove she's human to her critics.

It's one thing to have her make competent decisions or follow orders that ultimately back-fire through no fault of her own. Or even play up the conflict between emotional decisions and rational decisions and the impact that following one over the other might have (ala Gemini). It's a good way to show her humanity. But it's another matter to set her up for failure for failure's sake. It is possible to write stories that don't do that, and I think they've done a good job of it in the past. Hopefully, Lys will be right in that they don't make Sam look like an idiot in Beach Head.

I hope I don't sound too *****y (and I'm not trying to attack anyone)... But I am fighting a serious headache, and I was pretty annoyed when I read the Beach Head spoilers. I'm sure I'll be more optimistic in the morning.

Hugs,
Strix

[1speed4Sam]

First thing : some aspirin for you :

Then, if I remember, the Gamekeeper was about a very nice garden with beautiful flowers and how it was very important to save them. Welcome to the first ecological episode of SG1 my dear 1speed4Sam !
More seriously, it was about Jack and Daniel pasts, their history and the impact on their character of a mission gone wrong for Jack and the loss of his parents for Daniel. Once you're going to reach some later episodes you'll understand the impact of such events on them. It was a character development episode but I agree, not the best one.

Aha, thanks Lys. After the excitement / emotional impact etc. of "The Serpent's Lair" and "In The Line of Duty", I thought "Prisoners " and "The Gamekeeper" were perhaps just "everybody take five, let's have some fun" episodes.

And it looks like I've got a sticky post (Sky - I hope it's not something I've done wrong? )

1speed

[jckfan55]

I'm so pleased. I thought it was just me. (See post 11054, which was actually posted about 5 hours ago. Or am I the only one who can see it?). ...

In which case, can somebody please explain - FCOL, what was "The Gamekeeper" all about?!!!

1speed

I loved this post on the thread talking about the forum problems:

[QUOTE Madeleine_W ]
Also, some people are posting in the future. Goodness knows how. But if you're replying to anything, please quote it in case it the conversation gets jumbled out of order.

[QUOTE Seshat]
Apparently I happen to be one of those who is currently co-existing in two separate time dimensions, as my "New Posts" list is showing post times of approximately 5 hours beyond my own clock. And yes, I have already taken Darren's good advice and re-set my system clock's options. So my Subscriptions List times are correct, whereas new posts are happening in some future reality.

If I start experiencing temporal entropic cascade failure because of this, I am gonna get really miffed.

And "Gamekeeper" was about getting stuck in high tech hairdryers which caused you to relive your past in front of people stuck in hair nets...