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**ChopinGal** · 17 April 2005, 05:08 AM

Originally posted by ForeverSg1

I just don't think it's in Sam's genetic make-up to relax. It's not that she doesn't want to relax, she just doesn't know how. Some people are like that.

... [she] tries to enjoy their last day together. Tomorrow they would be going home, back to the SGC, back to their fast paced life's, but for now she was going to try to relax...even if it killed her.

ROTFLOL Great insight into Sam's Type A personality!

**ChopinGal** · 17 April 2005, 05:15 AM

Originally posted by Tok'Ra Hostess

Dismantles the reel just to see what the mechanism looks like.

LOL Ya sure yabetcha! You've got it so right once again!!

**Uber** · 17 April 2005, 10:30 AM

Originally posted by dmovies

I started watched SG1 because I loved the movie. I also remember RDA from the 80's and like him too. But the moment Samantha Carter walked into that briefing room, I was hooked. A strong female lead, beautiful, smart, and serious, I was wide-eyed! I'm in my 60's now and was never one for women's rights, but she really made me think. What a great role model for todays women. My daughters turned out a lot like the Sam character and I'm thrilled and surprised. I never encourgaged them to be so independent but I'm really proud of them. Go Carter!

Interesting...you're daughters turned out like Sam? In what ways? Are we talking about strength or character, or are we talking about profession...as in scientist or Air Force officer? (or an interesting combination thereof?)

**Uber** · 17 April 2005, 01:05 PM

Here's a question for you all to ponder...

Despite the fact that she almost died a few times in Space Race, it was pretty clear she had a good time and as of the end of the show, wanted to do it again.

Will she have the chance to participate in another Loop of Kon Garat? Now I don't mean another episode dedicated to the topic (unless they could come up with a really good plot twist or two), but will it be alluded to in conversation that she would be going?

Or maybe they'll slip in to a conversation that she had just won it? Sam could say something like "Well thankfully there weren't as many cheaters as there were last time..."

I really enjoyed Space Race...we got to see Sam outside of the team mix but still being the scientist/hero.

Plus we also got to see her teasing Teal'c, which was of course fun. I hope we get to see them more together; I really enjoy the chemistry between the two of them...the respect, the love, the friendship, the loyalty...

**jckfan55** · 17 April 2005, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by ÜberSG-1Fan

Here's a question for you all to ponder...

Despite the fact that she almost died a few times in Space Race, it was pretty clear she had a good time and as of the end of the show, wanted to do it again.

Will she have the chance to participate in another Loop of Kon Garat? Now I don't mean another episode dedicated to the topic (unless they could come up with a really good plot twist or two), but will it be alluded to in conversation that she would be going?

Or maybe they'll slip in to a conversation that she had just won it? Sam could say something like "Well thankfully there weren't as many cheaters as there were last time..."

Possibly, but please not a whole episode. A reference might be fun.
Daniel: "Boy Sam, you've really been jazzed since you got back."
Sam: "Wouldn't you be if you had just won the Loop of Kon Garat--fair and square?"

**astrogeologist** · 17 April 2005, 02:47 PM

Originally posted by majorsal

okay, i'm going to 'try' to do this quiz now. (hope my brain can keep up)

~~~

What Are Your Series Favorite Carter Episodes?

What are your choices for the following categories?
(You don't have to post your choices for every category, you can just choose to comment on certain ones if you want).

Best All-Around Carter Episodes: episodes that feature/showcase Sam and show many of the following: Kick-Ass!Carter, Soldier!Sam, Smart!Sam, Science!Sam, etc.: Grace, Entity, In the Line of Duty, A Matter of Time, Foothold, Jolinar's Memories/The Devil You Know, Desperate Measures, Death Knell, and Threads. (I could pick a LOT more, but I'm trying to keep the list reasonable. )

Great Kick-A$$ Carter Scenes: (too many, can't think of names)

Best AT Acting Episodes: Entity, Grace, Heroes2, Solitudes, Desperate Measures, Paradise Lost, In the Line of Duty, Jolinar's Mem/TDYK.

Best AT Acting Scenes: Sam as Entity. Sam breaking down in Heroes 2 (hallway scene, Jack/infirmary scene, Teal'c/lab scene).

Great Episodes for the Character Development of Sam Carter: In the Line of Duty, Tok'ra- pts 1 & 2, A Hundred Days, (ep where Sam got promoted to Major), Ascension, Revelations, Paradise Lost, Grace, Chimera (not *great*, but it was character developement), New Order(s), Affinity, Gemini, and Threads.

Top ‘Ship’ Episodes: The Broca Divide, Solitudes, There But For the Grace of God, In the Line of Duty, Out of Mind, Into the Fire, Point of View, A Hundred Days, Divide and Conquer, Window of Opportunity, Beneath the Surface, Entity, Paradise Lost, Metamorphosis, Grace, Death Knell, Heroes 1 & 2, Lost City 1 & 2, Affinity, Gemini, Threads, Moebius 2.

Best Carter Humor Scene: Where Carter/AT gets to be funny... Urgo, Moebius parts 1 and 2, Space Race, uh...

Best Carter Lines: "Jack, I love you." (oops )

Best AT Adlib: "Maybourne, you're an idiot every day of the week, couldn't you have taken one day off!" I also like her adlib in the first ep, with her saying something about 'MacGyvering' some do-dad. Her 'and I was there' line in ?.

Best Sam-whumping scene/episode: In New Order 2, where Fifth played 'brain scramble' with poor Sam's grey matter.

Best Sam/Teal'c scene/episode: (this category is especially for Skydiver ) Where Sam cried on Teal'c's shoulder in Paradise Lost. I also liked Teal'c handing over his staff weapon to her in the first ep, where he'd just stepped through the stargate and everyone had their weapons aimed at him.

Best episode where Sam had a very small part, but had a great stand-out scene or made a really big contribution: (ForeverSG1's category suggestion )

Best Writer of good, solid Carter episodes: Me. I mean.... heck, I don't remember who writes most of these eps.

Best Sam pic: How about everyone that has Sam/Amanda in them?

Best Snarky Sam Lines: ALL her lines to McKay. (I really wanted her to punch his lights out)

*Great* choices, MajorSal! And - I have to agree with you wholeheartedly about McKay... the lines and scenes were funny at the same time that I wanted to whack McKay upside the head! I have just finished downloaded your choices and I have integrated them into the summary list for the thread

. Thanks so much for posting your choices.

**Skydiver** · 17 April 2005, 02:49 PM

Originally posted by Agent_Dark

I've read two fanfic pieces with Tokrafied Sam, one where Jolinar escaped through the gate in ITLOD, and one of Skydiver's fics (which btw I've got a bone to pick with - how could you put the conclusion to that trilogy in a zine!!!!

) and I enjoyed both. But I don't think it would work that well during season9.
And AstroG, I really doubt that they are going to Tokrafy Sam. The Tokra have been pretty much swept under the table for the past two seasons and I can't see them suddenly bringing them back like that.

actually, fini, primordium and natus were all in zines, ad astera 3, 4, and 5 so it's a series that's lasted 3 years with part 3 going on the net this spring

i also wrote 'price of secrecy' 'a price too high' and 'paid in full' another trilogy that explores the nid getting sam and jolinar and then also two more that'll be on the net this spring, 'from peridition's flame' and 'sacrifice and betrayal' one of which has hathor taking sam with her in Hathor and then what happens to sam (it runs from Hathor through ITLOD/Secrets/Tok'ra time span) and S&B which is a take off from Out of Mind/Into the fire where Jack gets hathor (after he tosses her in the vat, she climbs out and gets into jack) then sam gets Raleigh to get the info to chase after and rescue jack

so for a time, i was on a 'tok'ra'd sam' kick

I seriously doubt the show will tok'ra sam. they seem to have pretty much ended that story thread, as a major part of the continuity anyway and now seem to want to focus on the glowy alien/ancients crud (sorry, i'm really tured oof the 'glowing ominpotent alien' gag. every single scifi show seems to do it and now stargate seems to want to make it the focus of their season. and it does NOTHING for me)

ok, so they want to focus on glowing aliens, well that storyline seems to have been chosen with MS in mind because of his character's obvious connections and, to be perfectly blunt, i don't see them doing anything to sam to bring amanda anymore to the focus of the show

AT wishes to cut back her time because of olivia - a decision i do NOT blame her for in the slightest - so it wouldn't make sense to do anything to her character that would make it the center of attention

anyway, now they got vala, who apparantly can replace sam as the 'token goauld tech user' so if they tok'ra sam, then they invalidate vala

**astrogeologist** · 17 April 2005, 03:11 PM

Originally posted by astrogeologist

OK, folks, I'm trying *really* hard to see the up-side of things... and trying *really* hard not to be cynical or depressed... but the more I hear of Season 9, the more I really think they are going to Tokrafy Sam. It's this feeling in the pit of my stomach along with all of the tidbit spoilers.

I don't want them to Tokrafy Sam because, in many ways, we would 'lose' our Sam... she would become 'Sam and TokraX'... at all times, TokraX is also present, not just our Sam.

And after a more than a season of shows that established 'insecure Sam' and did not establish Sam as a competent leader... where our Sam made mistakes and showed vulnerabilties and dealt with personal issues... I was hoping for Season 9 to tip the scales back the other way - back towards Sam's competence. But if there's a Tokra 'on-board', then it's as if our Sam wasn't enough... as if she couldn't handle it. I want to see *Sam* kick RepliCarter's ass... not 'Sam and TokraX'.

I'll also be pissed if they Tokrafy Sam because it will not give us the chance to just see Sam lead the troops. I want to see the woman lead competently and securely and have the confidence of her subordinates to work with. But if they Tokrafy Sam, then it's as if Sam, the female officer, wasn't enough. Men like Jack and Mitchell can lead....

OK... I am pretty down about this -- I need you folks to cheer me up -- tell me that I'm crazy and that I'm absolutely wrong - tell me that they are *not* going to Tokrafy Sam. Help! You did it once before, a few weeks ago, and I decided that I must be wrong... and I was much happier for awhile... but now my doubts are creeping back in and have taken seige.

I *so* want to see Sam dealing with the ramifications of Gemini and Jolinar's legacy.. and leading SG-1... and I so do *not* want to see her Tokrafied and turned into 'Sam and TokraX'. (And in my worst nightmares, the Tokra is Anise... shudder).

Help!

Originally posted by ÜberSG-1Fan

I was always upset that Jolinar died so quickly...

I thought it was cool for Sam to have that influence on her, and I dare say that it IMHO really changed her...she had more depth.

That being said, I don't really want her to have a Tok'ra symbiote full time now. If they were going to do that, Jolinar would have been the time.

Besides, she doesn't need a symbiote...she can use Goa'uld technology already. And she certainly doesn't need it for further character development... SHE'S GREAT JUST AS SHE IS!!!

Plus, there's the whole shippy angle, which I care about, although others might not. Blending her with yet another symbiote would change her and would affect her feelings for just about everything and everyone (including Jack); and more than likely the affect would be negative...

...btw, I haven't read anything that would give me the impression they are going that way...

Originally posted by dipsofjazz

I agree Uber. I see no reason for them to Tok'ra Sam. As you mentioned, it would also change the shippy aspect of the show (which I like), and I don't think they would change that after what we saw in Threads.

Originally posted by ForeverSg1

I'm really confused. Have there been spoilers to suggest this happening?? I just can't imagine why they would do this to Sam. I mean put her in a situation so near death that she would have to take a symbiote especially when they didn't do it at the end of eight.

Originally posted by Agent_Dark

I actually like the idea of Sam with a Tokra in her head, but I agree with you here - It'll take season9 away from just being Sam. Maybe if ITLOD had been a two parter...

I've read two fanfic pieces with Tokrafied Sam, one where Jolinar escaped through the gate in ITLOD, and one of Skydiver's fics (which btw I've got a bone to pick with - how could you put the conclusion to that trilogy in a zine!!!!

) and I enjoyed both. But I don't think it would work that well during season9.
And AstroG, I really doubt that they are going to Tokrafy Sam. The Tokra have been pretty much swept under the table for the past two seasons and I can't see them suddenly bringing them back like that.

Originally posted by binkpmmc

I just don't see it Astrogeologist - TPTB cannot be that dumb to take a central character that has a very wide swath of fans and make such a radical change in Season 9. They know many fans expect the competent SAM CARTER, leader of SG1, to return and this would alienate as many fans as may be alienated if they don't have her in command. Both of these storylines would be slaps to Carter and to the fans so I just cannot see it happening. (I say this because making Carter a Tok'ra would just be an easy/cowardly way out for TPTB (as would leaving BB1 in charge of the team upon her return) and I really hope they do not take the easy, cowardly way out.)

I have seen absolutely nothing that would make me think this - what made you think it? Did I miss something or is it just that you are less than trustful of TPTB (as am I) and think they could do something this drastically stupid? I sometimes let my doubts about TPTB (and their apparent inability to handle Carter in a mature and deserving way anymore) creep in and make me doubt that they will do the right thing by Carter in S9, so I know how you feel if that is it - again though this just seems to much of a 180 turn and would be a very bad move.

Also, there has been so little said about the Tok'ra playing any major role in S9 it would not make sense - we have the ancients, the Orii, the rebel Jaffa Nation, the arthurian legend, etc., so there does not seem to be much in the way of room for the Tok'ra in a major story arc at all so it would be a waste to do this to Carter. It was fine for a recurring character like Jacob who did not play a central role on the team and was not in every episode since the Tok'ra were not, and do not seem to be in the future, an arc in every episode. In my mind, if they were going to do this to a main, core character (who is slated to be in 15 episodes and is a main character with a huge fan base and fan appeal), than the Tok'ra would have to play a pretty major role in S9 and it seems they have been diluting that arc for the past few seasons and setting them up to go the way of Frasier, Hammond, Apophis, etc.

Wasn't it in Tok'ra 1 or 2, when O'Neill thought Carter might volunteer to be Tokr'a'd, that he said she had said she never wanted to go through that again so to do it to the character now would also just be another HUGE plot hole that made no sense in terms of continuity or character base. So in addition to being a stupid, cowardly move it woud also make no sense in terms of the "reality" of the show and the Carter character.

Finally, I will try and remain as optimistic as UberSG-1Fan was in a post a few pages back, and say that the comment someone made at the CON about people thinking they know what is going on and that they will be really "floored" when they see what is going on means that for all of us who DOUBT Carter will be in charge, and for everyone who is assuming BB1 will remain team leader, - lookout because Carter IS going to be in charge (but that is only ONE of the things we are all wrong about. I bet one of the other things is the arthurian legend stuff - that did not seem to be such a big hit when it was first announced and there seemed to be a lot of speculation about it so I bet that is one of the things alluded to as well - everyone who thinks they know what will happen with the Arthurian legend will be floored by what they really see.)

How about all of that Astrogeologist - did it help to allay your concerns any - even a little? I tried I really did.

Bink - you helped - a lot! Many, many thanks. And thanks also to Uber and AgentDark and ForeverSG1 and all others who responded. I still have this 'squirmy' feeling in my stomach, but I'm not so down about it... and trying for that more optomistic outlook.

Originally posted by majorsal

where is this coming from, astro? i'm reading the spoilers (okay, only looking for sam and sam/jack stuff), but i haven't read anything anywhere to give the impression sam's going to take a tok'ra symbiote. if you 'have' read this somewhere, please tell me where and what.

And MajorSal is correct, I have not seen a spoiler posting that states that

Spoiler:

I could say more, but I'm reaching the post-size limit, so I'll stop for now...

Lots and lots of Blue Jello to all who responded to my post...

**Uber** · 17 April 2005, 03:22 PM

Originally posted by astrogeologist

Bink - you helped - a lot! Many, many thanks. And thanks also to Uber and AgentDark and ForeverSG1 and all others who responded. I still have this 'squirmy' feeling in my stomach, but I'm not so down about it... and trying for that more optomistic outlook.

And MajorSal is correct, I have not seen a spoiler posting that states that

Spoiler:

I could say more, but I'm reaching the post-size limit, so I'll stop for now...

Lots and lots of Blue Jello to all who responded to my post...

If... and that's a big fat WHOPPIN' IF...they Tokrafy her (since this is all complete speculation), I will be interested to see what their real plans are for her character...and I'll pull out my largest pair of rose colored glasses for this one...

What if she's a Tok'ra and still leads SG-1? I get the sense at least that she'll be the team leader, nonetheless...

How would this affect her relationship with Jack? I remember when Narim made overtures, she had to put him off because she wasn't sure who's feelings she was feeling. And furthermore, how would Jack feel about her, knowing she now had a snake in her head? Would that change his feelings too?

Would she be opposed to it if it were an emergency? Sure, in The Tok'ra, she made a point of saying she wouldn't want to do it again...but I remember future episodes where she alluded to having a different perspective about the whole thing.

Could she mentally and emotionally handle the trauma of another set of thoughts and another personality in her mind? I don't think I could...

Where exactly ARE the Tok'ra really? Are they still a force to be reckoned with? Most of them scattered to the winds after the attack on Revanna, when Lantash died...

Is there a way that Sam carrying a symbiote either temporarily or permanently could actually enhance the storyline and her character? This I don't know and I don't have rose colored glasses big enough to consider all the implications.

But as I've said ad infinitum on this thread, I still want to see Sam the team leader...the Sam from the first half of IGTBK.

**astrogeologist** · 17 April 2005, 03:37 PM

Originally posted by Skydiver

actually, fini, primordium and natus were all in zines, ad astera 3, 4, and 5 so it's a series that's lasted 3 years with part 3 going on the net this spring

i also wrote 'price of secrecy' 'a price too high' and 'paid in full' another trilogy that explores the nid getting sam and jolinar and then also two more that'll be on the net this spring, 'from peridition's flame' and 'sacrifice and betrayal' one of which has hathor taking sam with her in Hathor and then what happens to sam (it runs from Hathor through ITLOD/Secrets/Tok'ra time span) and S&B which is a take off from Out of Mind/Into the fire where Jack gets hathor (after he tosses her in the vat, she climbs out and gets into jack) then sam gets Raleigh to get the info to chase after and rescue jack

And to any who haven't read Sky's fics - they are wonderful. And I really liked some of the fanfics where Sam (or Jack) are Tokra'd, although I have a tendency to lose interest in most of them (not Sky's of course)

.... that said, I have a much wider range of 'acceptability' in fanfics than I do in the show... and in most of the fanfic that I like where Sam-gets-Tokra'd - she also gets 'unTokra'd before the end of the fic. *That* I can deal with much better than having her stay Sam+TokraX.

I really like the fact that the series had Sam get Tokra'd in In The Line Of Duty... and then had her barely survive getting 'unTokra'd'... and had it leave permanent changes and effects on her. I just wish that the show had used Jolinar's legacy more over the following 5-6 years.

Originally posted by Skydiver

I seriously doubt the show will tok'ra sam. they seem to have pretty much ended that story thread, as a major part of the continuity anyway and now seem to want to focus on the glowy alien/ancients crud (sorry, i'm really tured oof the 'glowing ominpotent alien' gag. every single scifi show seems to do it and now stargate seems to want to make it the focus of their season. and it does NOTHING for me)

ok, so they want to focus on glowing aliens, well that storyline seems to have been chosen with MS in mind because of his character's obvious connections and, to be perfectly blunt, i don't see them doing anything to sam to bring amanda anymore to the focus of the show

AT wishes to cut back her time because of olivia - a decision i do NOT blame her for in the slightest - so it wouldn't make sense to do anything to her character that would make it the center of attention

anyway, now they got vala, who apparantly can replace sam as the 'token goauld tech user' so if they tok'ra sam, then they invalidate vala

Yeah, and that's another thing I'm really confused about... why did they bring Vala in with such upfront Sam-replacement features? It's not sitting well with me.

**Agent_Dark** · 17 April 2005, 03:37 PM

Originally posted by Skydiver

actually, fini, primordium and natus were all in zines, ad astera 3, 4, and 5 so it's a series that's lasted 3 years with part 3 going on the net this spring

i also wrote 'price of secrecy' 'a price too high' and 'paid in full' another trilogy that explores the nid getting sam and jolinar and then also two more that'll be on the net this spring, 'from peridition's flame' and 'sacrifice and betrayal' one of which has hathor taking sam with her in Hathor and then what happens to sam (it runs from Hathor through ITLOD/Secrets/Tok'ra time span) and S&B which is a take off from Out of Mind/Into the fire where Jack gets hathor (after he tosses her in the vat, she climbs out and gets into jack) then sam gets Raleigh to get the info to chase after and rescue jack

so for a time, i was on a 'tok'ra'd sam' kick

Sweet, something to look forward to then

**Agent_Dark** · 17 April 2005, 03:44 PM

Originally posted by astrogeologist

And to any who haven't read Sky's fics - they are wonderful. And I really liked some of the fanfics where Sam (or Jack) are Tokra'd, although I have a tendency to lose interest in most of them (not Sky's of course)

Oh yeah, I second that - especially the 'Fini', 'Primordium' and 'Natus' series. Awesome end-of-the-world/dark fic

**astrogeologist** · 17 April 2005, 03:53 PM

The final chapter of a good Sam-whump fic was just posted last night
Character
Also features strong, solid Carter 'gutting her way through the pain'
A note for non-shippers: it does get shippy around about Chapter 5 or 6.

Last night I went looking for some good Sam-fic and I browsed through the lists that Strix posted a few days ago. I'd read a lot of them before, but here were a couple that I hadn't seen - and I recommend them for anyone who's also looking for good Sam-fic.

Originally posted by Strix varia

LifeLine by Carol S. Comer
http://www.samandjack.net/stories/sj...clifeline.html

Going On by Carol S. Comer
http://www.samandjack.net/stories/sj...ccgoingon.html

Mountains Out of a Mole by Sherrill C. Martin
http://www.samandjack.net/stories/sj...utofamole.html

Before Knowing Remembers by Rocketchick
http://www.rocketfic.com/fanfic/before_knowing.html

Note: The last one listed is a femslash fic... and I usually don't go for those, but this one has a great scifi storyline and the 'romantic' side isn't graphic. I gave it a try because Rocketchick is the author of one of my all-time favorite Sam music videos http://www.rocketfic.com/clips/from_my_friends_hi.mov

**ColonelWilliams** · 17 April 2005, 03:57 PM

hey i've only posted a couple of times on this thread, but does anybody know if/when AT will be at any gatecons (i know it will be a while due to maternity leave)
thanx
-colonelwilliams

**Agent_Dark** · 17 April 2005, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by astrogeologist

Note: The last one listed is a femslash fic... and I usually don't go for those, but this one has a great scifi storyline and the 'romantic' side isn't graphic. I gave it a try because Rocketchick is the author of one of my all-time favorite Sam music videos http://www.rocketfic.com/clips/from_my_friends_hi.mov

Yeah, its got a nice little twist at the end of that story

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