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Ya see, that smacks of the same sort of crit that Sam gets when she does something (though usually that's all Sam has to do... just... something to provoke crit ).
Laira had absolutely no way of knowing that Teal'c's life was in danger, and if Sam had been in her situation, Sam/Jack shippers would have said, "gee, didn't Sam bring a lot of tension and drama to that ep by waiting so long, and what angst she must have suffered, knowing she'd likely lose Jack, and, of course, she couldn't have known Teal'c's status," etc.
i can't speak to laira's behavior because i wasn't irked by it. when this discussion comes up on the shipper thread, i stay out of it. but pete...
but it does go to show that not all of certain fandom is going to see the same as others. there is no hive mind, just individual tastes/tolerances. which is why i've stated *some* daniel fans...
and you bring up a wonderful example. i can't speak for all shippers, but with the vast majority i've read/talked to, we/they didn't lie about what the 'real' issue were in these sam/other-jack/other episodes... we were just plain jealous, and basically stated so. while pete was written poorly and it added to our probs, the jealously was still right out there for all to see. and the vast majority of the shippers stated it right to others faces. the 'others/diff love interests' interfered with our fantasies for our characters/storylines.
even with the difficulties the sam/amanda fans had with mitchell and vala... while the water sometimes 'did' get muddy, we kept our 'probs' to the characters and were honest enough to admit when the characters were doing better and/or were fixed. i'm proud of that.
sally
Can't argue with that!
I have to say that the years surrounding seasons five thru seven were horrible for fans just who loved the series and simply wanted to share that love online. It seemed that you couldn't post anything positive about any character without someone biting your head off.
I guess that's why I don't complain about the levels of so-called intolerance here on GW. Frankly, it's a haven in here, and Samanda, even more so, as even "heated" debate never seems to turn ugly - at least, not that I've seen, though admittedly, I'm very rarely able to keep up with this thread.
Gracie
A Cherokee elder sitting with his grandchildren told them,
"In every life there is a terrible fight – a fight between two wolves.
One is evil: he is fear, anger, envy, greed, arrogance, self-pity,
resentment, and deceit. The other is good: joy, serenity, humility,
confidence, generosity, truth, gentleness, and compassion."
A child asked, "Grandfather, which wolf will win?"
The elder looked the child in the eye. "The one you feed."
Oh, and here's one last thing about Laira: Michele Greene is NOT a bad actor, IMO. I've seen her in a number of things and, in fact, I think she's quite good. Therefore, I can't help but feel that that vague creepiness/clinginess was not accidental.
and that's all I'm gonna say about Laira.
oh, except that i just remembered that i'm always disappointed with how the Laira/Carter relations go south -- even 'in absentia' -- as the ep progresses. Feh.
Pete was great for a while, and then suddenly went very. strange. indeed. And yeah, Sam was written as fantasy-material in that relationship, until she responded to the "very strangeness" in a way which made me breathe a sigh of relief.
but it does go to show that not all of certain fandom is going to see the same as others. there is no hive mind, just individual tastes/tolerances. which is why i've stated *some* daniel fans...
sally
You're right; I should have said some Sam/Jack shippers. I meant to say some... really, I did.
BTW, I never go to the shipper threads - for any character, but I have always enjoyed all the ship scenes between Sam and Jack, and between Jack and Laira... and Sara... and Brief Candle lady... and... no... not Anise. Nope. I loved Sam and Marty, Daniel's love interests and most of Teal'c's, too.
I guess I'm a "If you can't be with the one you love, love the one your with" type of viewer.
Gracie
A Cherokee elder sitting with his grandchildren told them,
"In every life there is a terrible fight – a fight between two wolves.
One is evil: he is fear, anger, envy, greed, arrogance, self-pity,
resentment, and deceit. The other is good: joy, serenity, humility,
confidence, generosity, truth, gentleness, and compassion."
A child asked, "Grandfather, which wolf will win?"
The elder looked the child in the eye. "The one you feed."
to me, sam came out of grace bound and determined to have a life. and to her a 'life' was a man, white picket fence, dog, maybe kids - although i don't think she'd really thought that part through
thus when pete presented himself, she didn't deny it or ignore it, she tossd herself headlong into it and was determined to make it work. thus, i feel that she ignored all her natural 'eh, this isn't gonna work' feelings and pushed them aside to make sure that she made it work
so she ignored all those warning bells adn pete was besotted enough that he didn't push, thus didn't give her reasons to wonder and question.
we all knwo that sam can have tunnel vision and pete was in that tunnel with her
was the 'didn't push' before or after the second half of chimera?
A lot of fans treat Sam the same way for "using" Pete. She wasn't creepy, just clumsy with love, as is true for her character. the thing is, she let it go awfully far before she finally did the right thing and let Pete go.
Yes, I believe that as competent as she is in her professional life, Sam is not as sure in the love department. I don't have a problem with that. Though I think the writers let the Pete thing drag on too long. As clumsy as she may be, she would have realized she couldn't settle down with him. I don't believe she would have accepted his marriage proposal.
As far as Laira-- like DEM, I think she set out to get Jack. (Well, who could blame her? ) I didn't like her waiting around before she told him about the radio, but I do understand that she had no way of knowing Teal'c might be suffocating.
Yup. And though I have the same squicky feeling about the whole Pete affair as you do, I still believe that Sam acted mostly in character. I do wish that she'd taken him to task for some of the blatant things he'd done, but you know what, I know strong women who would have done the same thing.
So this brings me to what may prove a somewhat controversial subject about Sam's character:
I come from a... I don't know if culture is the right word... mentality, maybe, where people didn't talk about the squicky stuff. A man grabs your thigh at work? You brush him off without really looking at him, then both of you go about your day as if nothing had happened except that there's something there, that feeling akin to what Stephen King is so able to evoke in his writing. Sam gives off that vibe, sometimes, and it was especially clear with Pete.
Now, I'm not saying that Sam was raped as a child, or beaten by her ex-fiance, or anything so tragic. But she may have come from a culture where "bad" was simply not talked about and thus, allowed to flourish. For instance, Jack has never been able to talk about "the bad thing" that happened to his family. He lost his wife, whom he loved very deeply, over that inability.
Anyone else know what I'm talking about? If so, do you think this might be what the writers meant to portray all along?
i know what you're talking about, but i don't think the writers are/were getting at something like that. and mainly because it was never really brought up. *really* brought up.
to this day, i still can't figure out why they had pete act the way he did in the second half of chimera if they weren't going to go somewhere with it, you know? i guess it was just a red herring or something. there was more than one way for pete to be aware of what sam did for a living, or for sam to feel tention for not letting someone she was involved with know what she did for a living. the way it was all written together leaves me scratching my head.
for all my *extreme* dislike of even the thought of writing sam and/or jack in a different relationship other than with each other, i could have written a sam/other storyline where sam and 'the other' would come off real and likable and believable. and with respect, to each other and their own characters.
how do i let myself get sucked into a discussion that *still* sets me off on a ranty?
Yes, I believe that as competent as she is in her professional life, Sam is not as sure in the love department. I don't have a problem with that. Though I think the writers let the Pete thing drag on too long. As clumsy as she may be, she would have realized she couldn't settle down with him. I don't believe she would have accepted his marriage proposal.
The last time I watched Affinity I was trying to figure out the same thing. Why after two weeks, did she do it finally? I think the timing is interesting. It was right after another "break-into the otherwise empty warehouse to find our missing teammembers tied up" scene, only this time she did it with Pete. I *think* the emotional 'high' of the comraderie, similar to that she shares with Jack not coincidentally, made her for that moment believe she might have a future with Pete.
I realise that Laira wouldn't have known that Teal'c was in danger at this point, but I would have thought she would quickly tell Jack about the radio because of the fact that most of her community was still on earth. They had been evacuated there. The fact that Sam was able to communicate over the radio would surely have given her hope that some sort of rescue was about to happen, and that she would be reunited with her fellow villagers.
That is why I don't like Laira.
I hadn't thought of that part but you're right. Pretty much everybody on Edora must have had friends and family on Earth - Laira didn't think that they might like to know about their loved ones ASAP?
to this day, i still can't figure out why they had pete act the way he did in the second half of chimera if they weren't going to go somewhere with it, you know? i guess it was just a red herring or something. ... the way it was all written together leaves me scratching my head.
Yup. I was convinced that Pete was part of a shadow group or something. But then he wasn't. I think that was the ep where I immediately watched it again for the commentary track and/or went online searching for behind-the-scenes info, because I was just SURE there had been a last minute re-write to make him not-a-spy/alien/cyborg.
Yup. I was convinced that Pete was part of a shadow group or something. But then he wasn't. I think that was the ep where I immediately watched it again for the commentary track and/or went online searching for behind-the-scenes info, because I was just SURE there had been a last minute re-write to make him not-a-spy/alien/cyborg.
I wonder if the writers ever had the idea in the back of their heads while writing "Chimera" that, should they find themselves storyless at any point in Season Eight, they could turn Pete into either a bad guy or the hapless dupe of a bad guy.
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