Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[Lizlove]

OMG...so Sam basically confirmed it did happen! Not a very appropriate scene IMO.

I don't think it happened. I believe the intimate mostly goes about the thing they shared when he ascented. We had one scene like that in Atlantis too. With John and what's-her-name in Sanctuary

[ReganX]

Spoiler:

I don't think TPTB have done a great job at addressing the issues with that the change of the leadership in S9 would naturally bring up for the characters and I doubt that Landry's discussion with Mitchell in Uninvited will deal with it entirely either simply because they are looking at it from Mitchell's POV regarding how he is supposed to lead the team rather than the issues the other character's might have with him leading. Maybe they'll touch on those in the discussion, maybe not.

Spoiler:

I doubt they'll touch on the problems the other character are having with Mitchell's "leadership" - to do so, the writers would have to acknowledge that he didn't deserve command, that he got it by default and that he hasn't done a good job so far... which leads them to the fact that they have a far more deserving candidate for command on the team.

My best guess is that the problem will be shown as stemming from Sam, Daniel and Teal'c, that they've been working together so long that they're not giving Mitchell the respect and support he is due as leader.

I think that, by the sounds of things, this scene is going to make Mitchell look worse as leader, if such a thing is humanly possible - if he is in command, he should be able to command effectively and if there are problems, to hash them out with the team rather than running to Landry with his complaints. Landry is also going to come off very badly if he is shown to seek only Mitchell's side of the story before deciding his next move - and if it's to confirm Mitchell as sole leader in any way, Landry will be immediately demoted to a one on my scale of zero to ten and will rank between Mitchell and Kinsey in my character ratings, Kinsey will rank as the most liked of the three.

Logically, if three people make an effective team and work really well together but when a fourth is added, the team dynamics deteriorate, it's not difficult to see where the problem likely lies. If Landry cannot see this, I lose all respect for him.

Spoiler:

I'm quite certain that Sam would have issues with it even if it had been her choice to move to Area 51 and back into the team again - she fought too long for her position for it not to matter to her. She may not expect to have regained the position given her knowledge of the military and how it works but I would expect it to bother her at times. And I have to agree that Daniel would also challenge it - after all this was the guy who was wondering why Sam wasn't put in charge in Shades of Grey.

Spoiler:

I don't see Sam being happy with losing command of SG-1, not by a long shot. She worked too hard to earn command to be happy about it, even if her move to Area 51 was entirely voluntary, which I doubt. She wasn't even offered another command when she returned, which not only looks bad on her record but could give the impression, to other officers and to Sam herself, that she was seen to have done such a poor job with command of SG-1 that she couldn't be trusted with command of SG-Pick-A-Number.

I could buy that Sam wasn't prepared to bring the matter up with Landry. She could have asked why she hadn’t been offered command of SG-1 or, at the very least, of her own team but the fact is that she doesn’t know Landry all that well. She has no way of knowing how he would react if she raised the issue. He might be understanding and sympathetic of her concerns and maybe he would take steps to rectify the situation if he knew that she was unhappy over losing command or if she genuinely felt that Mitchell’s actions gave cause for concern but on the other hand, he might not.

After all, Landry assigned Mitchell as leader of SG-1 and made no move to change commanders when Sam returned. He might not take kindly to Sam questioning these decisions and this could have a bad effect on their future working relationship.

I could also see that she wouldn't want to offend or hurt Mitchell by suggesting that he shouldn't be in command and wouldn't come out and say anything because of this, but it makes no sense for Sam not to be unhappy with the current farce of a command situation, and for none of her feelings to show, even if she doesn't vocalize them.

Likewise, it makes no sense for Daniel, who isn't bound by the military chain of command and doesn't exactly have a reputation for keeping quiet, not to have said something or for himself and Teal'c to accept Mitchell's command, not when he has proven so bad at the job so far.

Spoiler:

I have to admit it's a failing of the writing that they've left this issue lying around but then I think its part of the lack of understanding from male writers that what they did to Sam's character constituted gender discrimination in the first place and therefore they were blind to the issues that the change prompted too. I think its only since S9 aired and with the reaction to what happened that they got a clue.

I would like to see something on screen dealing with it - maybe the Sam/Mitchell episode in Line in the Sand will bring some of it up...or maybe the writers will continue to ignore the problem...

Spoiler:

It doesn't take a genius to realize that people are going to have problems watch a character they have seen work for command of SG-1 for seven years and do well with command for another year demoted in favour of a new character shown to have no offworld experience and no field experience that we know of.

Spoiler:

My way of dealing with it at the mo is to assume that all the stuff we're not seeing on screen happened off-screen...but I'd still like to see it on screen too

I've been sticking with fixing it through fanfic.

[Lord_Minister]

I have a question. Why are there so many female Sam fans? I thought most of sams fans were guys and they liked her because shes hot.

[ReganX]

I have a question. Why are there so many female Sam fans? I thought most of sams fans were guys and they liked her because shes hot.

Sam's character has far, far more than looks to make her appeal to her fans.

Her intelligence, compassion, kindness, strength, leadership, humour and heroism are just some of the factors that drew me to her character.

[Rachel500]

I have a question. Why are there so many female Sam fans? I thought most of sams fans were guys and they liked her because shes hot.

For me personally its because I think the character of Sam was someone who I aspired to be like; honest, decent, good at her job, loyal...the list is endless. I think Sam makes a great role model for women generally.

[Rachel500]

Spoiler:

I doubt they'll touch on the problems the other character are having with Mitchell's "leadership" - to do so, the writers would have to acknowledge that he didn't deserve command, that he got it by default and that he hasn't done a good job so far... which leads them to the fact that they have a far more deserving candidate for command on the team.

My best guess is that the problem will be shown as stemming from Sam, Daniel and Teal'c, that they've been working together so long that they're not giving Mitchell the respect and support he is due as leader.

I think that, by the sounds of things, this scene is going to make Mitchell look worse as leader, if such a thing is humanly possible - if he is in command, he should be able to command effectively and if there are problems, to hash them out with the team rather than running to Landry with his complaints. Landry is also going to come off very badly if he is shown to seek only Mitchell's side of the story before deciding his next move - and if it's to confirm Mitchell as sole leader in any way, Landry will be immediately demoted to a one on my scale of zero to ten and will rank between Mitchell and Kinsey in my character ratings, Kinsey will rank as the most liked of the three.

Logically, if three people make an effective team and work really well together but when a fourth is added, the team dynamics deteriorate, it's not difficult to see where the problem likely lies. If Landry cannot see this, I lose all respect for him.

Spoiler:

I agree. It will be interesting to see how they construct that discussion in Uninvited and see whether they do more harm than good with it.

Spoiler:

I don't see Sam being happy with losing command of SG-1, not by a long shot. She worked too hard to earn command to be happy about it, even if her move to Area 51 was entirely voluntary, which I doubt. She wasn't even offered another command when she returned, which not only looks bad on her record but could give the impression, to other officers and to Sam herself, that she was seen to have done such a poor job with command of SG-1 that she couldn't be trusted with command of SG-Pick-A-Number.

I could buy that Sam wasn't prepared to bring the matter up with Landry. She could have asked why she hadn’t been offered command of SG-1 or, at the very least, of her own team but the fact is that she doesn’t know Landry all that well. She has no way of knowing how he would react if she raised the issue. He might be understanding and sympathetic of her concerns and maybe he would take steps to rectify the situation if he knew that she was unhappy over losing command or if she genuinely felt that Mitchell’s actions gave cause for concern but on the other hand, he might not.

After all, Landry assigned Mitchell as leader of SG-1 and made no move to change commanders when Sam returned. He might not take kindly to Sam questioning these decisions and this could have a bad effect on their future working relationship.

I could also see that she wouldn't want to offend or hurt Mitchell by suggesting that he shouldn't be in command and wouldn't come out and say anything because of this, but it makes no sense for Sam not to be unhappy with the current farce of a command situation, and for none of her feelings to show, even if she doesn't vocalize them.

Likewise, it makes no sense for Daniel, who isn't bound by the military chain of command and doesn't exactly have a reputation for keeping quiet, not to have said something or for himself and Teal'c to accept Mitchell's command, not when he has proven so bad at the job so far.

Spoiler:

In terms of the story, Sam herself says she took the job in Area 51 for personal reasons so it was her decision. The problem is that the story has done little to provide a better explanation of what these personal reasons were - the Cassie comment in EDM is just not believable - if the audience knew why Sam had decided to leave SG1 (a job she loved and which even Barrett is surprised she gave up) in the first place, it might provide a better context for her reactions/lack of reactions now.

For me the missing discussion between Sam and Landry is also the other 'hole' that needs to filled in. Fair enough, Landry had assigned Mitchell and to revoke the assignment without just cause at the point of Beachhead probably would not have been practical or fair on Mitchell. But the whole notion of why Sam would (a) come back to the SGC and (b) go back to SG1 instead of being offered command of another SG team, is still to be explained.

Spoiler:

It doesn't take a genius to realize that people are going to have problems watch a character they have seen work for command of SG-1 for seven years and do well with command for another year demoted in favour of a new character shown to have no offworld experience and no field experience that we know of.

Spoiler:

I think sometimes it is possible for TPTB to lose sight of the likely fan reactions and sometimes to misread them altogether and in this particular case with Sam losing the leadership, I don't think it helped that they're all men.

In my experience, its quite common for men not to have a clue that what they have done is sexist/discriminatory and how women in particular perceive the action as being so. I don't think TPTB thought about it much beyond - "let's take the character dynamic of the team back to S1-7 so we'll have to have an excuse for Sam not leading anymore and coming back as the science-geek...oh I know lets ship her off to Area 51..."

I've been sticking with fixing it through fanfic.

Me too.

[RepliCartertje]

It depends on the interpretation of the word intimate.

I always believe in The Fourth Horseman...

Spoiler:

While Landry used the word to imply a sexual relationship, Sam used it describe a spiritual relationship - the glowy sharing of souls thing they did in Ascension.

Hence as far as I am concerned she never did it with Orlin.

Well that is my believe to...I also don't think anything else that the glowing thing happened. Ok they shared some great moments with eachother...They had a great friendship going on with eachother but nothing more than that...Ok Orlin did have some feelings for Sam and Sam liked him very much and maybe within time she might actually have loved him. But for me that was it, nothing more

Spoiler:

And what Landry implied is just not true, it can not be true, cause if it was we must had some evidence in the ep. Assencion but there was nothing there... You can not see anything in the ep. and we only know it because Landry said it in the Fourth hourseman.

[KatG]

I have a question. Why are there so many female Sam fans? I thought most of sams fans were guys and they liked her because shes hot.

She's one of the first female scifi characters that we as women can respect. She's made her way in a man's world, both the miltary and academics. She's respected in both fields, yet she still manages to be a woman, to be funny, to be compassionate, to just be REAL.

[RepliCartertje]

Sam's character has far, far more than looks to make her appeal to her fans.

Her intelligence, compassion, kindness, strength, leadership, humour and heroism are just some of the factors that drew me to her character.

For me personally its because I think the character of Sam was someone who I aspired to be like; honest, decent, good at her job, loyal...the list is endless. I think Sam makes a great role model for women generally.

that exactly why I like Sam too...she is a role model for so many woman! I think if more people where like her, the world would be a better place...

And she also looks great but that is not the main thing here...Looks are great but the person who you are inside counts way more than your looks. And Amanda has that personality. So I think that is also one of the reasons why so many woman like her. And why she does not have a thunk or wow thread...she is far more than just her beauty. We (the fans) want also more than just watching her...we want to talk and discuss what Amanda does.

[Agent_Dark]

Sam's character has far, far more than looks to make her appeal to her fans.

Her intelligence, compassion, kindness, strength, leadership, humour and heroism are just some of the factors that drew me to her character.

But there are still some of us (male and female ) who would also add 'plus she's hot'

[ReganX]

Spoiler:

I agree. It will be interesting to see how they construct that discussion in Uninvited and see whether they do more harm than good with it.

Spoiler:

My money's on harm. The only way I see it being in anyway decent without returning Sam to command if Landry tells Mitchell that, even though he is the official leader, Sam, Daniel and Teal'c all know a lot more about what they're doing than he does and that, regardless of titles, he should follow their lead and learn from them.

I don't see this happening as TPTB seem bound and determined to pimp Mitchell as the hewo and as the soul and center of the show.

Spoiler:

In terms of the story, Sam herself says she took the job in Area 51 for personal reasons so it was her decision. The problem is that the story has done little to provide a better explanation of what these personal reasons were - the Cassie comment in EDM is just not believable - if the audience knew why Sam had decided to leave SG1 (a job she loved and which even Barrett is surprised she gave up) in the first place, it might provide a better context for her reactions/lack of reactions now.

Spoiler:

Sam's transfer to Area 51 makes no sense to me except as a plot device. It makes sense to me that Area 51 would want her but I don’t see her wanting to give up ‘gate travel. She’s always loved both the scientific and military elements of her job so why would she give one side of that up entirely?

The problem with the suggestion that Sam left because of Cassie is that only a very short time passed between when Sam left for Area 51 and when she returned in ‘Beachhead’, just a matter of weeks. During this time, between the hassles involved in changing jobs and getting caught up to speed on the projects she would be responsible for overseeing at Area, Sam’s work on the bomb and her stint on the Prometheus, I don’t see her being able to spend much time with Cassie.

Cassie is probably in college at this point. I doubt that she is living with Sam this year, although I am sure that they are in contact and that Cassie probably lived with Sam after Janet’s death until she went away to college.

If Cassie was having trouble adjusting to college, or was undergoing a brief crisis, I don’t see Sam having trouble obtaining a few weeks, even a couple of months of leave to help her, not after all she had done for the SGC, especially when things were quiet. If Cassie’s problems were more serious, if she was suffering from severe depression, for example, Sam would have been able to offer her very limited support while working at Area 51 and I don’t see her retaking a position on SG-1 if Cassie had needed her badly enough for her to leave it in the first place.

My theory: Leaving the SGC wasn’t Sam’s decision. The Head of Area 51 applied to have Sam take transferred and argued strenuously in favour of this, citing that with the Goa’uld and Replicators gone, her talents were best utilized in a scientific setting. Several higher ups agreed to this transfer and Sam, while Area 51 wouldn’t have been her first choice, accepted the transfer, with the thought that she would be able to be on Earth at all times, easily accessible if Cassie - who was having some problems, though nothing major, settling in at college - ever needed her as a consolation.

It wasn’t a case of “I want to transfer to Area 51 to spend more time with Cassie”, it was more like “I’m being transferred to Area 51, I don’t want to give up SG-1 but on the bright side, I’ll be able to spend more time with Cassie.”

Any indication Sam gave to Mitchell that the transfer was her idea was because she was trying to put a bright face on it and didn't want to spoil Mitchell's arrival at SG-1 by showing any hard feelings she might have had over being transferred away from the SGC.

Spoiler:

For me the missing discussion between Sam and Landry is also the other 'hole' that needs to filled in. Fair enough, Landry had assigned Mitchell and to revoke the assignment without just cause at the point of Beachhead probably would not have been practical or fair on Mitchell. But the whole notion of why Sam would (a) come back to the SGC and (b) go back to SG1 instead of being offered command of another SG team, is still to be explained.

Spoiler:

I don't see it being impractical or unfair to Mitchell to reassign Sam command when she returned to the SGC. Mitchell was given the position, by default, when they thought that there was no major threat out there in the galaxy. They were predicting peaceful, exploratory missions. When the situation changed and they knew that there was a major threat out there, there would have been nothing unreasonable or impractical about putting the most experienced candidate available in charge - and this was Sam.

It wouldn't have been an insult to Mitchell to ask him to step down and, much as I loathe him, I don't see him sulking over losing command under those circumstances.

If anything, Landry has neglected his responsibility to all the members of SG-1, possibly even to the entire population of Earth by not seeing to it that the team who have been so often called upon to save the planet from destruction don't have an experienced, competent leader. Given the threat from the Ori, choosing to leave the inexperienced officer in charge when a far more experienced officer is available is nothing short of stupidity on Landry's part.

I agree that there should have been a scene where Sam was, at the very least, offered command of her own team.

I wonder if the cabin scene in "Uninvited" is going to reveal that, even though Mitchell selflessly offered to give up the command he loved so much when Sam returned, she refused, insisting that he was a much, much better choice.

Spoiler:

I think sometimes it is possible for TPTB to lose sight of the likely fan reactions and sometimes to misread them altogether and in this particular case with Sam losing the leadership, I don't think it helped that they're all men.

In my experience, its quite common for men not to have a clue that what they have done is sexist/discriminatory and how women in particular perceive the action as being so. I don't think TPTB thought about it much beyond - "let's take the character dynamic of the team back to S1-7 so we'll have to have an excuse for Sam not leading anymore and coming back as the science-geek...oh I know lets ship her off to Area 51..."

Spoiler:

I think that each and every one of TPTB who had any hand in demoting Sam in favour of Mitchell should be ashamed of themselves for endorsing, knowingly or not, the sexist message it sends.

[ReganX]

But there are still some of us (male and female ) who would also add 'plus she's hot'

But it would be something added rather than being the sole reason that the character held any appeal.

[Rachel500]

Spoiler:

Sam's transfer to Area 51 makes no sense to me except as a plot device. It makes sense to me that Area 51 would want her but I don’t see her wanting to give up ‘gate travel. She’s always loved both the scientific and military elements of her job so why would she give one side of that up entirely?

The problem with the suggestion that Sam left because of Cassie is that only a very short time passed between when Sam left for Area 51 and when she returned in ‘Beachhead’, just a matter of weeks. During this time, between the hassles involved in changing jobs and getting caught up to speed on the projects she would be responsible for overseeing at Area, Sam’s work on the bomb and her stint on the Prometheus, I don’t see her being able to spend much time with Cassie.

Cassie is probably in college at this point. I doubt that she is living with Sam this year, although I am sure that they are in contact and that Cassie probably lived with Sam after Janet’s death until she went away to college.

If Cassie was having trouble adjusting to college, or was undergoing a brief crisis, I don’t see Sam having trouble obtaining a few weeks, even a couple of months of leave to help her, not after all she had done for the SGC, especially when things were quiet. If Cassie’s problems were more serious, if she was suffering from severe depression, for example, Sam would have been able to offer her very limited support while working at Area 51 and I don’t see her retaking a position on SG-1 if Cassie had needed her badly enough for her to leave it in the first place.

My theory: Leaving the SGC wasn’t Sam’s decision. The Head of Area 51 applied to have Sam take transferred and argued strenuously in favour of this, citing that with the Goa’uld and Replicators gone, her talents were best utilized in a scientific setting. Several higher ups agreed to this transfer and Sam, while Area 51 wouldn’t have been her first choice, accepted the transfer, with the thought that she would be able to be on Earth at all times, easily accessible if Cassie - who was having some problems, though nothing major, settling in at college - ever needed her as a consolation.

It wasn’t a case of “I want to transfer to Area 51 to spend more time with Cassie”, it was more like “I’m being transferred to Area 51, I don’t want to give up SG-1 but on the bright side, I’ll be able to spend more time with Cassie.”

Any indication Sam gave to Mitchell that the transfer was her idea was because she was trying to put a bright face on it and didn't want to spoil Mitchell's arrival at SG-1 by showing any hard feelings she might have had over being transferred away from the SGC.

Spoiler:

I absolutely agree Area 51 was an incredibly poor plot device and that Cassie doesn't work as the reason (and you put forth a great argument why it doesn't) but I can accept that the character of Sam might have decided on a change of direction for personal reasons given the tumult that had happened in her personal life at the end of S8 (breaking her engagement, dealing with her feelings for Jack, and most significantly her father's death) and given that her 'team' looked as though they were headed in all new directions - Jack to Washington, Teal'c back to Dakara, Daniel to Atlantis - why it might have prompted her to decide on a 'fresh start' too; why a command position leading Area 51 R&D (where she presumably led more people than her previous position in charge of SG1) would be a good move for her. I think I would happily accept any of these things as being her reasons for the move and therefore it being her own decision.

Conversely though because I could accept this as a reason for her to leave, I then demand a better explanation for why she would return and leave said 'new start' for effectively taking a step backwards (regardless of the Ori threat). Because of this, I think the theory of 'she was transferred, didn't have a choice and is trying to put a brave face on what happened' fits better with her return than her departure.

Spoiler:

I don't see it being impractical or unfair to Mitchell to reassign Sam command when she returned to the SGC. Mitchell was given the position, by default, when they thought that there was no major threat out there in the galaxy. They were predicting peaceful, exploratory missions. When the situation changed and they knew that there was a major threat out there, there would have been nothing unreasonable or impractical about putting the most experienced candidate available in charge - and this was Sam.

It wouldn't have been an insult to Mitchell to ask him to step down and, much as I loathe him, I don't see him sulking over losing command under those circumstances.

If anything, Landry has neglected his responsibility to all the members of SG-1, possibly even to the entire population of Earth by not seeing to it that the team who have been so often called upon to save the planet from destruction don't have an experienced, competent leader. Given the threat from the Ori, choosing to leave the inexperienced officer in charge when a far more experienced officer is available is nothing short of stupidity on Landry's part.

I agree that there should have been a scene where Sam was, at the very least, offered command of her own team.

I wonder if the cabin scene in "Uninvited" is going to reveal that, even though Mitchell selflessly offered to give up the command he loved so much when Sam returned, she refused, insisting that he was a much, much better choice.

Spoiler:

I absolutely agree that Sam is the better choice to lead SG1 but from Landry's perspective at Beachhead, Mitchell, while inexperienced in gate travel, hadn't done anything to suggest at that point he wasn't fit to lead a team. His performance had been pretty solid, and presumably however justified the reason for the removal of the assignment it still wouldn't have looked good on Mitchell's record.

So I can see why leaving him in place, adding Sam who has the experience to the mix and then assigning mission command dependent on the mission involved which seems to be what happened thereafter with the command, (I am in the camp of opinion, until canon tells me otherwise, that Sam reports to Landry and she doesn't report to Mitchell), would be an acceptable compromise way forward (for achieving the mission objective of fighting the Ori not in terms of addressing Sam's position) especially if Sam herself continued to retain her R&D command (something which is also a little vague in terms of the way the stories have been presented).

However, there have been instances since Beachhead, notably Off the Grid, where if I was Mitchell's CO I would have felt I had a reason to say 'you're obviously not ready for this responsibility'.

Landry, overall, hasn't impressed me much as a SGC leader. I think he's struggled to understand himself how to lead Sam/Daniel/Teal'c and I think some of his behaviour hasn't reflected well on him as a leader - his comment re 'intimate relationship' with Sam in the Fourth Horseman, letting Mitchell be part of the mission in Stronghold knowing his emotional state. In fact, I have more issues with Landry than I do with Mitchell as a character.

Spoiler:

I think that each and every one of TPTB who had any hand in demoting Sam in favour of Mitchell should be ashamed of themselves for endorsing, knowingly or not, the sexist message it sends.

On this I agree 100%.

[Mandysg1]

Spoiler:

Just remember that poor Sam is all but prohibited to question or criticize Mitchell's actions.

If we ever see it outside of fanfic, it'll turn out that Mitchell's stupid screw-up was actually the right thing to do and Sam will be eating her words and acknowledging his superior tactical abilities, awe-inspiring leadership, etc, by the end of the episode.

Ah bite your tongue

[ForeverSg1]

OMG...so Sam basically confirmed it did happen! Not a very appropriate scene IMO.

Yeah except I didn't consider the look on Sam's face as a smile at the end of the scene. I saw it more as a grimace. Personally I think the writers should be hog tied and left on a fire ant mound for writing that scene, but it just goes to prove my theory we have been living in an alternate reality since the end of season eight. That's my explanation and I'm sticking to it!!