Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[scarimor]

a green, newly minted major would have the enthusiasm and sense of adventure.

"newly minted" nice and shiny... Daniel could have polished him, Teal'c could have spun him, Sam could have tossed spent flipped him and watched which way he landed...

[Skydiver]

"newly minted" nice and shiny... Daniel could have polished him, Teal'c could have spun him, Sam could have tossed spent flipped him and watched which way he landed...

heads or tails

[Gate gal]

Before I begin, please do not get too angry with me. It only sounds like I am siding with the PTB. I want Sam as the leader of SG-1, team dynamics with the original team, and I want Jack back. Now, I am going to say what I'm thinking. I agree that the characters Cameron and Vala were really thrust at us. They were one-dimensional characters in a world with characters that were very well developed. Honestly, that is a lousy position to be in. I have always loved Sam, but in COTG she was a little one-dimensional as well. Of course, AT and the PTB developed Sam very quickly and continued to grow the character. (Thankfully!) Tealc', Janet, and General Hammond were the same way at the beginning of season 1. Honestly, only Jack and Daniel were well developed characters in the premiere, and that is only because of the movie. My point is that character development takes time. Honestly, they should have brought Cameron in during season 8 and made him believable before RDA left the show. Vala was only supposed to be a guest star so it is completely understandable that she is, well, what she is. In CB's defense, I think she is doing a good job with what they've given her to work with. I heard her complaining a bit about all the cleavage in the last 2 seasons of Farscape, so I think she will probably pull for a mellowing out of her character. She and AT seem to get along well, so I'm sure that their friendship will carry on to the screen. Season 10 will be better. The newbies will be developed, and Sam will get her screen time. (I have to remain positive.)
O.K., one last rant and I'm done. My big regret in the whole season 9 fiasco is the lack of Sam. Why couldn't they have used a secondary team to film more Sam moments after Amanda's maternity leave, so she would have had a small place in the early part of the season. I know too late to do anything about that now. End of rant.

[Gate gal]

i've said it too many times and i'll say it again, MAJOR mitchell would have pretty much fixed all the issues folks seem to have with cam.

a green, newly minted major would have the enthusiasm and sense of adventure. he'd have that wide eyed enjoyment. he'd make mistakes (hey, sam's made her share) and he'd learn from them

Major mitchell could have JOINED the team and fit right in.

Lt Col Hewo sticks out like a sore thumb.

That would have been great! Especially if they had brought in Major Mitchell during late s8 so he would understand the ropes a bit. Sam could have been on temporary assignment to R & D, instead of permanent assignment, and Mitchell could have been in charge of the team in the interm. That way when Sam came back it would have been a given that he was her 2IC!

[RepliCartertje]

i've said it too many times and i'll say it again, MAJOR mitchell would have pretty much fixed all the issues folks seem to have with cam.

a green, newly minted major would have the enthusiasm and sense of adventure. he'd have that wide eyed enjoyment. he'd make mistakes (hey, sam's made her share) and he'd learn from them

Major mitchell could have JOINED the team and fit right in.

Lt Col Hewo sticks out like a sore thumb.

That would have done the trick.
I mean than I would have no problems with Mitchell at all!! but now..
He isn't really a leader to me. I don't see him as a leader. I see him as a tourist who is going on a tour with SG1.

[RepliCartertje]

Ok we could really need some help with the voting Amanda Tapping isn't doing so great anymore
she lost lots of vote in a couple of hours. So if you all please could vote for her on http://www.celeeb.com/amanda-tapping/

[astrogeologist]

They'll have played their part in creating an environment where gender discrimination is accepted.

Regardless of how many excuses are thrown around about how they never would have had Sam in command in Season Eight except for budget reasons, they had to have the new lead actor playing the leader of SG-1, Amanda Tapping wasn't around for the first five episodes, etc, it does not erase the facts. (put in spoilers for space)

Spoiler:

1. Sam was in command of SG-1 in Season Eight. It doesn't matter if this was because of budget constraints, RDA's reduced schedule or because dancing elves made them do it. The fact remains that she was in command of SG-1 and she was shown to have done a good job as team leader.

2. The lead actor did not have to play the team leader. If I remember the Season Eight credits correctly, the lead actor did not play the leader of SG-1, he played the base commander. Even if it was essential that Ben Browder have first spot in the credits, Mitchell need not have had leadership of SG-1.

3. Several scenarios, all an improvement over "Sam left for Area 51 a week ago" have been suggested as alternatives. Sam could have been absent due to injury, or a temporary assignment.

4. Mitchell was introduced as a character who had no offworld experience and no field experience that we know of. He was also shown as a character who was given his job because he decided that he deserved it. He could easily have been introduced as a full colonel with several years of experience commanding an SG team, but he wasn't.

5. The experienced female was shunted out of command in favour of the inexperienced male.

6. None of the characters were allowed to object or even to comment on this.

TPTB's decision was doubly sexist. Not only did they demote a female character who had rightfully earned command of SG-1 in favour of a character who got command through a combination of pulling strings and dumb luck, but by not showing that it was wrong for Sam to have lost command, they showed that gender discrimination is acceptable.

Gender discrimination in the workplace is a huge problem but had they provided a positive example by keeping Sam in charge, TPTB could have played a part, however small, in a solution. Instead, they have contributed to the problem.

I hope that TPTB remember this if any of their daughters are ever discriminated against because of their gender.

I understand that they've brought in new characters, that there is a temptation to focus on these characters and a need to integrate them into the show, but a good show runner should know how to balance introducing new characters without taking focus away from the established characters and to develop new bonds without undermining the existing connection between the team.

Okay, Sam, Daniel and Teal'c have a connection that Mitchell and Vala are not a part of. That is not a bad thing. They, along with Jack, had been a tight knit group for eight years before Season Nine. It is unrealistic for Mitchell to be part of the family after so short a time.

Show a gradually developing trust and friendship between the established characters and the newbies. Let the newbies be aware that the other three share a closeness that they are not a part of. Let the established characters struggle a bit with learning to be on a team with people outside their circle.

It's important that Sam, Daniel and Teal'c develop friendships with Mitchell and Vala, but it is just as important that the connection the three of them share with each other and with Jack not be minimized just because it doesn't include the newcomers.

Regan, these were two wonderful posts. Tried to green you, but I am locked out of the jello fridge... so as Ooober or someone said earlier... consider yourself slimed!

[astrogeologist]

I calculated a drop of 0.22 ratings points between Season Eight's average of 2.065 and Season Nine's average of 1.845 - it mightn't sound like a lot but it translates to a loss of 294,000 viewers.

I'd need to know how many viewers started watching in Season Nine, because of Ben Browder and Claudia Black or for other reasons, to know the exact figure but if, hypothetically speaking, 100,000 people started watching in Season Nine, it means that 394,000 stopped watching.

A very basic chart.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...nX/ratings.jpg

Great chart, Regan! (I love charts and graphs... it must be my geeky side)

Also, something to consider, if their US ratings drop, but they pick up new markets in other countries where Stargate was previously not shown... then they could conceivably come out ahead $$-wise.

Spoiler:

which would mean that they can tell all of their longer term fans to lump it or like it with respect to their changes to the show.

Which is what they've essentially done anyway.

[astrogeologist]

It is hard for writers to admit that they have written badly. It is hard for people to admit that they have acted based on prejudice (whether sexism or any other kind).

For past seasons of SG-1, there have been some episodes which I didn't like: "late-in-the-day" scenes or the odd plot flop, or a clip-show... you expect them from this type of TV drama: they don't have unlimited time, unlimited funds, unlimited resources. And whole seasons have felt different to previous ones - season six hardly had Daniel; season 8 had no Hammond and no Janet (sob... Janet). But they were still producing good television. It wasn't that things didn't change - things changed a lot.

But the sudden collapse of overall quality and the ineptitude of Mitchell's introduction which characterise season 9 is something else entirely. It didn't happen because AT went on maternity leave any more than it didn't happen when Michael Shanks left or Don Davis got ill or they killed off Teryl Rother's character. It happened because for season 9 they blundered big time.

CRRRRAAAAAPPPP.

Excellent, scarimor! As before... tried to rep you, but am still locked out of the jello fridge.

season 9 suffered from alzheimers.

ROTFLOL!

Beautifully stated. I couldn't have agreed with you more.

Honestly without these brief moments, SG-1 isn't SG-1 to me any longer and I have no interest in watching it. Stargate has always been more than just Jack, or Daniel or Sam or Teal'c. As much as I love and admire Amanda, I don't think I could watch the show if it was 42mins of Sam alone on the screen nor would I do it for any of the other characters. I admit I've enjoyed watching the individual character-centered episodes over the years and in most cases it's been interesting to watch the actors stretch their acting mucles a bit, but it has always been the chemistry between the four cast members and the wonderful bond between the characters that have kept me interested in the show for nearly a decade. Without those elements, the show does not captivate my attention in the same way. Yes, it's still Stargate but it's not SG-1. I don't know if it's the writers who have lost their touch or simply become bored of writing team moments; or perhaps over the years the chemistry between the actors has changed and those wonderful moments they used to share with a glance and a smile no longer shine through my television screen, but whatever the reasons, SG-1 has lost its spark for me and I dread watching another season where compelling and touching storylines are overshadowed by actors in tight fitting clothing and CGI battles.

Spoiler:

the rest is in spoilers only to save space

I'm willing to give Mitchell and Vala a second and even a third chance as long as the writers bring back the elements of SG-1 that made me fall in love with it. If I wanted to see Amanda and Chris used as wallpaper, I would just hang a poster up on my walls and be done with it. I miss seeing my team. I miss seeing them interact with one another. Stargate has been blessed with cast of immensely talented actors. The only drawback I see with this is trying find a way to utilitize them all to their fullest potential. I don't have to be shown or told that Amanda and Claudia are beautiful women or that Chris has a rock hard body so I wish they[the writers] would stop wasting my time highlighting these aspects of the actors. I wish they would go back to writing interesting and intelligent scripts and let the actors do what it is that they've been paid to do, because if all I wanted was to watch a bunch of attractive people walk across my television screen, I'd watch reruns of Baywatch or some other braindead television show. Stargate used to be different. It used to be a show where I genuinely cared about the characters because they seemed to genuinely care about each other. That aspect of the show was lost in season nine, but I'm still grasping on to the hope that the writers will eventually realize that SG-1 was special just the way it was, and the more they try to alter and change it, the less interesting it becomes.

One thing I've wondered about is... once RDA started working a 'restricted schedule', they started rearranging how they were filming scenes, so that when he was on set they 'maximized their Rick Time' (one of TPTB said something very close to that to RDA in one of the Behind The Scenes commentaries (might have been a Lowdown)). Once they started doing this 'restricted scheduling', things became very tight... perhaps more efficient... and all of the actors admitted that they were often working on one episode in the morning and another in the afternoon. And... it may just be me, but my impression was that we saw less and less of The Team as backdrop for each other; that is, if a scene was intergral for one or two characters, the others were not present because they weren't going to say or do anything important - and they could be filming another scene on another set at the same time. Didn't AT say that she didn't see 'the guys' for a couple of weeks at one point (somewhere along in the Grace-Death Knell time period)?

At any rate, what I'm wondering, is... once they got into that type of high intensity scheduling... perhaps they have never gotten back out of it? Perhaps they simply don't write scenes with all four in the room anymore because it's rare to have a scene where all four are actually needed for meaty dialogue in the same scene... so they take the 'less used' actors in a certain scene, write them out of that scene, and they can then be filming something else on a different set.

Just a wondering thought...

Sally, of course I wasn't at shoreleave, but the gist I got from several of the reports I read afterward was that this was an ongoing (as in current) issue. Something to the effect of Amanda feeling that they needed to either do something (as in get those two together) or not do something (as in resolve it to the negative).

One way or the other, there needs to be a decision, because as long as they drag out a half-baked 'what if' scenario, then each time it's brought up in canon, Sam (the character) loses a bit of her integrity because she's portrayed as being angsty and indecisive. She loses strength by being forced into a melodramatic corner and it's OOC for Sam to not know what she wants at this point.

It would seem that Amanda would rather the writers made a definitive choice (one way or the other) and made that choice clear so that Carter would no longer be portrayed as weak and irresolute each time the issue of her feelings for Jack (or his for her) emerged.

I think Amanda would stand behind either decision, frankly, she'd make it work for Sam, but it definitely seems that she (Amanda) would prefer that Sam was able to move forward and away from the perpetual and (perhaps even frustrating) mawkish limbo they keep hammering on where Sam and Jack are concerned.

I would be so bold as to imagine that shippers and non shippers alike would even agree on that point, too.

The old euphemism: " $$$$ or get off the pot. " most definitely applies!

mg

I think you nailed it, mini!

very true.

i WANT to like mitch. I was looking forward to someone else JOINING the show....but this 'super duper hewo force feeding' is just too much.

I think i'd adore Major Mitchell. Newbie with a bit of hero worship and a crush on the team.

but mister Hewo Cambo????

sigh, nope, just does NOTHING for me

And this states my feelings accurately, Sky!

i've said it too many times and i'll say it again, MAJOR mitchell would have pretty much fixed all the issues folks seem to have with cam.

a green, newly minted major would have the enthusiasm and sense of adventure. he'd have that wide eyed enjoyment. he'd make mistakes (hey, sam's made her share) and he'd learn from them

Major mitchell could have JOINED the team and fit right in.

Lt Col Hewo sticks out like a sore thumb.

You are making me cry for what could have been (and should have been!)

[astrogeologist]

I see there has been a lot of discussion on the leadership issue and season 9 and 10. A lot of great comment and interesting discussion!

There is no doubt about it the people who brought on board CB and BB in their current character guise have made a bit of a howler (IMO). I sort of think that Cooper was thinking about creating his new show when he signed them both.

The signing of both these stars together to me smacks of relying on the actors to make a show rather than creative writing and great acting. It would have made more sense to have one or the other, but 2 direct from Farscape smacks of grabbing in a desperate plea to make something a success.

Anyway grab for BB got BB now write a character for him – the lead character as well. It seems that was probably decided way back in season 8 – (that Sam wouldn’t lead when RDA finally left).

That was the big mistake. Grab and actor then quickly write a character – for an ongoing SG1 series. They have failed to create a lead character that fits the actor or fits the show (IMO) they had to make him a super hero – to account for the fact that he would lead the team above Sam. But BB is not RDA – How do you follow the character of O’Neill – make him the same (the best leader in SGC worthy of leading SG1), but different enough to make it interesting – that is what they have struggled with and where they have failed. It would have been far easier to write a new part – such as a new member of SG1 – the character could then have been so many things – a clown, brave, snarky, a renegade, a loner, an expert – he could have had so many edges to shape into the show and to round over time – and to jazz the audience. Oh but that would have left a female in charge – couldn’t have that now could we!!

The character Mitchell is a huge disappointment to me. He is just a nothing – So far.

To add to the “hero” status he suddenly in one episode acquired specialist fighting skills, skills which took Teal’c the best part of his long life to acquire – a bit too convenient if you ask me and a bit too teenage boyish for me to take an interest. The one liners on the whole are also going down a more immature route.

For me it would have been better for Mitchell to be totally the other way. Very serious, very precise, very focused and very strict. (But not unlikable). That way they could have shown him easing up over time – and Sam being surprised that there was someone in the SGC more serious about the job than her.

Spoiler:

the rest is in spoiler tabs only to save space
The same is true of Claudia. I think they rushed into the Vala character eyes wide shut. They will struggle getting her to fit into the team how she was portrayed in season 9 - unless they want to make a complete ass out of Stargate Command – and the US Air Force for that matter. But if they change her too much, perhaps the new fanboys who like to turn on the telly and see sci fi mixed with cleavage will turn to another show – they really have captured the fickle market with Mitchell and Vala.

They have also thus backed themselves into a corner with Sam. They knew how to write an SG1 ep with the big 3 and a strong Carter. But now there is Mitchell – who is the lead, plus Beau B and other characters to bring into the mix. I just don’t think they know how to write Sam into the shows anymore. Maybe that is what they meant when they said we don’t know what to do with Sam. How do you write for her not being a big part of the show? They have really upset the apple cart!!

It is sad, but it is done. Maybe they will make a better job of things in season 10. But hearing that there is not too much “team” in the new series already leaves me totally disinterested and even more unwilling to pick up my season 9 eps and finish watching them!

The writers should have sat down and thought about potential characters for a long time before they made any changes and introduced new lead characters. Then cast for the appropriate actor. You never know – they may have got a bigger name than BB interested.

For me SG1 is ruined – totally ruined and I haven’t enjoyed the season 9 eps I have watched. Others will like it – and that is fine by me. It just isn’t the sort of show I’m interested in.

Excellent post, Coley.

[L.A. Doyle]

Ok we could really need some help with the voting Amanda Tapping isn't doing so great anymore
she lost lots of vote in a couple of hours. So if you all please could vote for her on http://www.celeeb.com/amanda-tapping/

Yes, please come by and vote! We are falling quickly. At least this month let's keep her #1. We're going to have to get after it to keep her on top. Otherwise, she could be bumped from first by the weekend....

[astrogeologist]

Yes, please come by and vote! We are falling quickly. At least this month let's keep her #1. We're going to have to get after it to keep her on top. Otherwise, she could be bumped from first by the weekend....

I'll be very sad and disappointed if it's the RDA fans that take the #1 spot away from AT. That's like losing to your brother... I'd much rather agree to have everyone work towards keeping AT at #1 for this month, and then help the RDA fans and get him a lock on #1 for next month.

[stargate barbie]

Oh, thanks for reminding me. A preteen (girl) got up there and asked how many boyfriends Sam has had... And no, I'm not kidding. AT seemed to struggle, got some help from the audience, but in the end, I believe she said, "I don't know."

That's when I actually started to get a little annoyed. I wasn't so much annoyed with the young teen who seemed to be asking a question of a woman she admired; but I was annoyed at the fact that it's really gone so far.

ok, why did my question there remind you of that?

i'm a bit worried now that it sounded bad. i was asking out of curiosity about if they were ever asked that, because amanda gets asked all the time apparently. i didn't want to know the answer, just if they were ever asked.

my subtle between the lines question is one of equality of sorts. why does the girl get asked. is it just because a large portion of fandom are straight females, and care which guy is the better kisser but not which girl is, or is it just because she's the girl so she gets the stupid shallow questions over and over.

don't get me wrong, these are fun questions to ask once or twice over 10 years, but why go through it so often.

sorry if it sounded wrong or something.

[L.A. Doyle]

I'll be very sad and disappointed if it's the RDA fans that take the #1 spot away from AT. That's like losing to your brother... I'd much rather agree to have everyone work towards keeping AT at #1 for this month, and then help the RDA fans and get him a lock on #1 for next month.

I agree. This month AT, next month RDA. Fair enough.

Don't forget, he's got MacGyver AND Stargate fans voting. AT needs our support.

[Chelle DB]

I doubt that Jack has the authority to make an almost unconditional offer of any post Mitchell wanted. The last time a similar offer was made, it was made by the President. My guess would be that somebody higher up the chain of command authorized the offer and Jack was just the messenger. It stands to reason that the person who authorized the offer would have some say in whether or not Mitchell's request to join SG-1 was granted.

Given that it is highly unlikely that Mitchell progressed from lying in bed in hospital to being fully fit for active duty in less than a week, the offer was definitely made and Mitchell's place on SG-1 almost certainly agreed to while Sam was in command of SG-1.

There is no way that Jack would have downgraded an officer he knew and trusted in favour of an inexperienced and unknown quantity, therefore he cannot have intended for Mitchell to be in command of SG-1.

When Mitchell arrived, Landry chose to give him a chance at command of SG-1 based on his supposedly impeccable record. This would have been Landry's call, and I don't see Jack interfering unless he had reason to doubt Mitchell's capabilities.

Good morning everyone! I've only got a few minutes to try and catch up with last nights posts before I head out to work, so please bear with me here.
I watched Origin last night (season 9 is finally on Aussie tv!!) and I'm still enjoying season 9 thus far. Hubby watched for a while and made this comment: "It's just not the same without MacGuyver...is it" I told him that it didn't have to be the same...change is inevitable.
I don't think Jack is in the position to make an unconditional offer but then again I don't think it was implied that he would either. He did tell Mitchell he could have any post he wanted..then he said..well almost anything!
As for his place on SG1 being determined before Sam left...I can't see that being the case...he may have been thinking of joining SG1 before they disbanded but I can't imagine Landry or anyone allowing SG1 to disband knowing that Mitchell was going to join them...and he didn't ask to command SG1...he just wanted to join...IIRC, he asked about Sam being the leader of the team when Landry offered him command of SG1 and that's when he learned there was no team as they had all left. And I don't recall Sam being downgraded...or have I missed something here?
I want Sam to be leader of SG1 just as much as anyone, but I don't/won't blame Mitchell for her not having command...I think TPTB really screwed up on this issue and hopefully (fingers crossed!) it will be resolved and that Sam will finally get command...I will scream so loud you'll be able to hear me from wherever you are in the world if they give full command to Mitchell!
Ok...enough ranting for now...I'm off to work! Be back late tonite!