Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[Beakymoose]

Happy pictures!

[astrogeologist]

Virtual TV Guide Stargate Spoiler: Colonel Carter leads a special team on a clandestine offworld mission while Mitchell and Vala cope with her daughter's capriciousness.--------

Daniel and Teal'c would be a part of Carter's special offworld mission. Their mission would be gripping and suspenseful... dangerous and heroic. The Mitchell/Vala/daughter segments would be be a second (B) storyline that would tie into TPTB overall arc for Vala's daughter's character and the Ori (a little background character-study stuff about Vala's daughter).

Is this for real, or did you just make this up? Stupid question I guess... but I would love to see this onscreen.

I made it up ... was just having a bit of fun posting 'what I'd like to see in a TV Guide Stargate spoiler'

Season nine didn't gel for me because I went into it hoping to see the team be - a team - and I had absolutely zero negative pre-disposition towards Ben or Claudia. But (and I say this with much respect to ALL the actors), not one of them this year had more than a few scant seconds of opportunity to really PLAY, outside the box. That really impacted the believability of the new characters, in addition to impacting the way the old-guard fit into the new dynamic. They just ... didn't.

Excuses are just that ... excuses. At the end of the day, I don't really care WHY it didn't work. I just want them to fix it. I want my team back, I want my strong Sam Carter character to take charge again, and I could care less what the company line is for "why" I didn't get any of that last year. Far as I'm concerned, the "company" can sort it out amongst themselves and do whatever they have to do to make things right again.

Nicely stated, minigeek!

Sam's military/command training has always been something she's grappled with in juxtaposition with her scientific (and human) side. That's part of what makes her character compelling to me. She doesn't always know whether she should make the military decision, or the human decision, or the scientific decision.


It's a neat topic to kick around, isn't it?

geek

And again!

heck i'm not even sure most of this made sense to anyone but me. and if you've just read all of this, you probably shouldn't have. i'd regret it if i were you.

No regrets here, stargatebarbie! Great post!

I'd love to see Sam active in problem-solving, in taking charge of a dangerous mission, and of course being there for her teammates.

Woot! Love those ideas!

personally i find that in season 9 mitchells relationship with mitchell was the focus of the season.

[astrogeologist]

Addressing the "excuses" angle that TPRTS always fall back on and use as copouts I have the following observation, and I have said this before but I recently read an article about Desperate Housewives and the fact that most people involved with that show, from cast to crew to Marc Cherry the EP and creator of the show (usually the No. 1 or 2 network show each week with 15+ MILLION viewers and oooodles of advertiising dollars) ADMIT that MISTAKES have been made in S2. This is my biggest problem with TPRTS on Stargate - they REFUSE to admit THEY made mistakes and they refuse to acknowledge any problems with chracters, writing, direction, arcs, etc. The cast and crew of one of the biggest networks shows on TV right now are mature enough and confident enough in their abilities to admit these things why can't cooper and his merry men? (It is the same thing I have said about people like JJ Abrams from Alias fame - in the past he too admitted mistakes with Alias' direction, characters, arc, etc., and his show was no slouch in the NETWORK ratings game either). If these guys get it I am not sure what the problem is with cooper and his cronies.

Back to DH - some of what was said in the article by cast and crew resonated because they are exact same issues many, many fans have had with Stargate SG1 (and SGA) the past few seasons:

"Season 2 was a letdown from the breakout success . . . " Same can and has been said about S9 from S8s success in the ratings.

"The cast got a little thick." uuuhhh S9 and S10 as examples. I harken back to cooper and others saying in the past that it is a 4 man team and writing for 5 or more would take away from the dynamic that is why Jonas had to go -- but even having a 4 man team in S9 seemed to be a bust and TPRTS couldn't handle it but when you add Lam and Landry you have a bigger mess and I fear for what will hapen with S10.

Re: the addition of the Applewhites (Alfre Woodards storyline): "Viewers were pretty vocal about what they liked and what they didn't - like brining in a new family with NO CONNECTION TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD." Change neighborhood to "SG1" and you have the biggest and loudest complaint about S9 -- mitchell, the contrived, hewo, leader, coming out of the blue with no real connection and no experience and all we get is a contrived backstory that doesn't fly (get it? he's a pilot - sorry lame I know) and we are told instead of shown and what we are shown is a very sorry excuse for an SGC officer never mind co-leader of the elite team.

Spoiler:

Seems that Cherry and others knew a bad thing when they saw it and, despite the story being one that was meant to be "pivotal to S2" the Applewhites, with an actress the caliber of Alfre Woodard, have been written out after only one season.

I can only hope TPRTS come to their senses the way people involved in seriously huge network TV shows do.

Terry Hatcher on Susan's arc in S2: "She hasn't had one". Change the names Susan to AT and Sam, MS and Daniel, or CJ and Teal'c and you have another one of the biggest, loudest complaints - the BIG 3 being relegated to the foils and the background and the wallpaper. Fans do not watch DH for the Applewhites and likewise many, many fans do not watch SG1 for mitchell or vala -- they have and do watch for Sam, Daniel and Teal'c - the team and the formula that worked for 8 years.

Hathcher again: "They've sort of thrown some things up against the wall and tried to see if they'd stick, and they haven't." HHmmmm sounds familar to what we have seen come out of bridge in S9. I recall reading this type of sentiment many times across forums with regard to the B@B.

Anyway, as I have said in the past I have a lot more respect for people in this business who are willing to admit mistakes and then acknowledge them and fix them. The respect level I have for the b@b has been falling for the past several seasons and it took a potentially deadly hit with S9.

A lot of what was in the article about DH and a lot of what the cast, crew said resonated and could have been written about Stargate - if TPRTS had the same confidence and abilities that the DH people do to admit mistakes have been made, that THEY have made the mistakes and acknowledge that they will fix them instead of always denying the show has taken a turn for the worse, instead of coming up with lame, cop-out excuses and instead of looking to drop responsibility at the feet of anything they can find except themselves - the people who make the show. Let's see Alfre Woodard versus Ben Browder -- no offense intended but I would do everything in my power to make a story with the likes of Alfre Woodard work before Ben Browder and the people at mega-hit DH were willing to let AW go so I would not even blink an eye if BB were to disappear from Stargate.

wow this got kind of long - sorry.

Great post, bink!

[astrogeologist]

oh, what season 9 could have been....


sam, daniel, teal'c, and mitchell, behind enemy lines and trying to get to the gate.


daniel: sam, we can't just sit here! mitchell's bleeding and--

sam: i know that, daniel! but we can't just run up to the gate, seeing as there are about a dozen jaffa standing at it.

daniel: but--

sam: what would you have us do, daniel? just walk up and say we want to go home?

daniel: of course not... i just think sitting here while he bleeds to death isn't getting us anywhere. sorry.

sam: i'm waiting for the opening.

daniel: what opening?

teal'c: when colonel carter sees it, danieljackson, you will be the first to know. judge her instincts.

daniel: i do, it's just....

mitchell: leave me behind, sam.

sam: oh, shut up. you know i'm not leaving any member of my team behind, so knock off that warrior crap. no offense, teal'c.

teal'c smiles and nods

sam: there!

daniel: sam?

sam points. 'right there, daniel. teal'c, you and daniel go to the tree line and i'll radio when i've got the charges set'.

daniel: sam? what's going on.

sam: just go with teal'c, daniel. teal'c?

teal'c: i'll explain your plan to daniel, colonel carter.

daniel: you will? when did 'you' hear it?

teal'c: i saw the opening, danieljackson.

sam laughs




i wanted a scene like this in season 9!! sam's smart and has been mentored by the best, so why oh why didn't they let her take off and soar!?!





sally

Great script, Sally!

[astrogeologist]

I have to disagree with you here, because after watching S9 I have come to the conclusion that Stargate was not about the relationships of four members of SG-1. It was about the relationships of one man, Jack, with three other members of SG-1. This is why the writers have so much trouble giving us team moments now, because for eight years they have been showing us how Sam, Teal'c and Daniel's relationship with Jack have evolved and changed, but they have done very little to show the relationships with the other three characters. Yes in the beginning we saw Sam/Daniel become close and we've had moments with Teal'c/Daniel and Teal'c/Sam, but none of these relationships have been developed and strengthened as much as the ones between S/J, J/D and J/T. Jack was the center of SG-1 and Jack is what held the characters together. As much as I had hoped that was not true at the end of season eight and as much as I had hoped to finally see these three characters really bond with one another, it simply did not happen nor do I feel it will ever happen.

The difference between seasons 1-8 and now is that Ben Browder has taken RDA's place and they are writing Mitchell to try to take Jack's place which includes being the center of all the relationships. We will see Sam/Mitchell as friends, we'll get our Mitchell/Daniel moments and our Mitchell/Teal'c moments, but I don't believe we will ever really get our Sam/Daniel/Teal'c moments. Why? Because it was never about the team. It was always about Jack and Mitchell is the new Jack.

I'm sorry if I've been much more negative today than norm. It may be best if I hold off posting for a few more days till RL issues calm down and I can look at things a bit more positively and open.

I agree, Kat. When I watched the first many seasons of SG-1, I didn't like how much the show seemed to center on Jack... still Carter's role was good enough, and there was enough of 'the team', that I kept watching -- and, coming to online places like this thread helped me focus on what team moments there were. Folks here were great at emphasizing and highlighting the non-Jack-centered scenes and moments. However, when they brought in Browder as the show-centered-male hero, I have to admit that I felt that they had resoundingly validated my original impressions.

I find it wonderful to read the posts and thoughts of other folks who also want more team-oriented stories and scenes - with more balanced events (balanced between the main characters). I also think it's wonderful that AT has stated (repeatedly) that she likes the team-oriented stories the best - and that she's always hoping for more of them. I think that's one of the similarities between what many of the folks here on this thread value and what AT has espoused as her personal hopes.

[the dancer of spaz]

1.


2.




i really have to step up here and although i know others have thrown in a post or two on the subject, i really need to get this off my chest.

1.
i have always been irked at the suggestion that ship ruined any friendships on the team/show. i don't mean for this to sound how it is most likely going to sound and i might even regret saying it, but here it is anyway; in my experience this is said because someone else's favourite characters don't have enough screen time in that persons opinion. (i'm not saying this applies to you, i'm just making a general point using these posts as an example)

speaking as someone who doesn't really have any "favourite character" over another, and as someone who generally speaking likes each character equally (although i do find some of them more interesting than others), i always wanted everyone to have the right amount of screen time with the right persons for the right scenes or episodes. and in my opinion they accomplished this for the most part.

evolution: i loved this episode. i was shocked to see people on line so outraged that the s/j ship ruined it. the scene that gets the most beating on this line of thought is usually the one where jack goes to sam to tell her that he was going after daniel and the off world mission was hers. just because there was a shippy look, and sam appeared apprehensive and sad, i remember people saying horrible things about it. that sam didn't want jack going off after daniel and such.

my interpretation of this is quite different. yes, there was concern for jack, but there was also the clear fear and worry for daniel, and also the huge honkin' mission that she now had to lead, minus another team member on top of the one that was already missing. this episode couldn't have gone down any other way as far as i can see. everyone was worried about daniel. the best man for the job went after him. sam led a mission (very well) to save the world. all was good in my book. yes the team was separated for much of it, but i didn't mind in this one. everyone was doing important things, and it was all somewhat related. i loved it.

Affinity: that episode didn't ruin friendship, it ruined everything! it was appalling IMO. and i love(d?) PDL. i think that episode was just filler, and were it not for the fact that it had necessary lasting repercussions for the show, i could happily pretend it never happened (just like gamekeeper, yuck!)

Lost City: yes, sam showed up before daniel and teal'c. that was just so that she could have her personal moment of goodbye with jack. teal'c had his later in the episode, which to me had just as much impact as sams. daniel saved the guy. and was a constant friend throughout. this episode was centered around jack. it was about his importance to the universe and his relationships with his team. IMO the team feels equally as strongly about each other. each persons feelings regarding each team member is equal in strength, just different in nature. exactly like a family.

Threads: yes, the team was split up in this episode, but it was really so that they could each have developments of their individual character issues here. teal'c was on dakara dealing with his free jaffa issues, making important decisions about his life. daniel was with oma, helping to defeat anubis, his arch nemisis if you will, and making important decisions about his life. sam was dealing with her personal issues, (having kicked some serious ass in the previous episode) her father, her future, her self essentially, and this is important to her character because while she is brilliant in matters of the mind, and amazing at saving the universe, she is pretty dumb when it comes to her personal life. jack had the least to do here, but his issues were equally important, he just had a bit less screen time to deal with it. they gave him one episode to accomplish what carter has been given over a season to accomplish. and yes, it does have to do with their romantic feelings for one another, i feel that this is inconsequential. jacks issue was his emotional state regarding both sam and daniel, and his future too. his career future, and his concern for his team mates. he dealt with the possible loss of daniel in this one the same way he dealt with it in revelations. the same way he dealt with carters loss in grace.

if you ask me, teal'c is the one who got a raw deal here.

anyway, in the end, i had no problem with the fishing scene. but i'm a shipper so maybe i'm not the best judge on this. i loved that they all went fishing together as a team.


while i do think that there was too much attention given to a character (pete) that has nothing to do with the show that i love, i do see why he was there. i still think that he used up too much screen time, but i don't like the character anyway, so i could be wrong. consider this though. teal'c has had his wife in three episodes, his girlfriend shaun'ac in two, (and an arc in which he seeks to avenge her loss featured for quite a while too) and his girlfriend ishta in two (or more?).

daniel was married for the first three years of the show, and still managed to get some extra lovin' in between. i firmly believe that until cameron and vala came along, daniel and sam were RCC's favourite characters, and part of me thinks that he chose to write his own version of mary sue fan fic into the show by shipping sam and daniel all over the place, just not with each other because the show runner at the time didn't want to have a prominent ship on the show at the time.

and again, with sam suddenly seeking a bf after six years? even if you choose to ignore and exclude any romantic ship between main characters on the show, i think its fair to assume that after 6 years of being single and having only weird alien types drool after you, she might want to try to have a real and normal relationship. i'm leaving out any other factors that i include. i don't think there's anything wrong with a woman wanting to have a relationship. i don't think it weakens her. i don't think they handled this particular relationship well on the show though.

2.
moebius: jack was in the jumper because he can fly it. sam was in the jumper because she can fix it. daniel and teal'c were off planning strategy and such because daniel had been living there for the last 5 years or so, and teal'c is the expert on fighting jaffa. its canon that sam is attracted to jack. i loved the moment with her saying she was attracted to daniel and his reaction. laughed my butt off. and i thought it was an interesting direction to take it. when it turned out as it did, that didn't bother me either. i thought it was well played out, and it suited both my sense of humour, my shippy side, and my brain because i believed it. it seemed like a very geek!sam thing to do. again, shippiness aside, it just worked. that whole episode worked for me.

yes, alternate timeline jack was a jerk, but it was alternate timeline, and it was funny, and in the beginning of stargate, our jack was a jerk. his character evolved over time, and this different jack's character evolved over the course of the episode too.

the fact that geek!daniel was killed worked for the episode. keeping in mind here that our daniel was the only one of the original team to survive, it both created equilibrium and for interesting storytelling. i'm not going to go into it here, this is taking up way too much space as it is. and as you may have noticed, i can really yak on when i have something to say. i'm learning to control it though.

Out of Mind/ Into the Fire: sam leaving daniel with the troops because he was wounded was extremely considerate and the best tactical decision. he would have slowed her down, whereas leaving him with the rescue party was not going to slow them down anymore than was expected. their job was to rescue sg1, to get them out safely. daniel was not going assault the gate with the others, he was going to be protected. sam's mission was covert, stealthy and daniel was not an essential part of it. the fact that she also happened to be rescuing jack was just beneficial to the show. leaving him there probably wouldn't have been good. it was the first episode of the season, and they had to pay him for all twenty something episodes.

sam going back for jack was well covered by sky here. she was going back to kill the generator. getting jack, and defeating hathor was an excellent bonus. and rescuing jack actually helped accomplish her mission objective.

getting back to my original point (i think), i don't think anyone can say, whatever relationship, romantic or otherwise, ruined friendship on the show. that's just saying that one friendship ruined another friendship really. i don't see it. and anytime i see the accusation it just bugs me. its like saying that yoko ono broke up the beatles.

each relationship on the show (up until season 9, but hopefully thats just them trying to introduce the new guys and IMO doing a poor job of it) is equally important and for the most part IMO gets equal screen time where necessary. sometimes they don't seem to fit it all into the one episode and we feel as though one character has been left out, but we don't know why this has happened. for all we know it could be that the episode ran long so they cut out the scene that didn't work as well as others.

there was a scene between janet and sam cut in ascension. everyone hated that it got cut, even AT, but they cut it. it had to be done. it happens all the time. as my scriptwriting teacher said "sometimes you have to kill your babies". i feel it important to point out that these babies that he spoke of were very much metaphorical.

i hope nobody feels offended by this. i'm not picking on anyone. i'm not singling anyone out. i mean no disrespect to your opinions, but i just needed to say something or it would have bugged me to an exponential degree!

heck i'm not even sure most of this made sense to anyone but me. and if you've just read all of this, you probably shouldn't have. i'd regret it if i were you.

Man, oh man. Two words, stargate barbie: You rock!

No regrets from this end!

[Beakymoose]

I agree, Kat. When I watched the first many seasons of SG-1, I didn't like how much the show seemed to center on Jack... still Carter's role was good enough, and there was enough of 'the team', that I kept watching -- and, coming to online places like this thread helped me focus on what team moments there were. Folks here were great at emphasizing and highlighting the non-Jack-centered scenes and moments. However, when they brought in Browder as the show-centered-male hero, I have to admit that I felt that they had resoundingly validated my original impressions.

I find it wonderful to read the posts and thoughts of other folks who also want more team-oriented stories and scenes - with more balanced events (balanced between the main characters). I also think it's wonderful that AT has stated (repeatedly) that she likes the team-oriented stories the best - and that she's always hoping for more of them. I think that's one of the similarities between what many of the folks here on this thread value and what AT has espoused as her personal hopes.

I couldn't agree more. A show about one character can get old and boring. But a show about a team (expecially one filled with superb actors) has the ability to keep going for a very long time.

[astrogeologist]

I think that you're right that the relationships on the team centered around Jack in the beginning - with the exception of Sam and Daniel's friendship, that was obvious early on - but I think that as the series progressed they were able to branch out to a certain extent, they were able to move from Jack being the unifying element of SG-1 to show the bonds between Sam and Teal'c, Sam and Janet, Sam and Jacob, some nice moments for Janet and Daniel and for Janet and Teal'c, Teal'c and Bra'tac, Teal'c and Rya'c, etc, instead of concentrating exclusively on Jack's relationship with each member of his team.

I think that Season Nine had a lot of emphasis on Mitchell as an attempt to recreate Jack's role as the unifyer, as the centre of the team and pushed a lot of attempts at character bonding with each of them to cement his position.

In my opinion, with Jack gone they had a fabulous opportunity to highlight the bonds between Sam, Daniel and Teal'c, to show them as a team without the person I think helped them become a team in the first place.

Although I can understand TPTB's motives, I disagree with the move they made - trying to make Mitchell the centre of the team has led to the downplaying of a wonderful team bond and a beautiful friendship.

I agree, Regan - it's not that I wanted RDA to leave, but I did think that we'd get to see some great stuff with Carter, Daniel and Teal'c leading SG-1 with a newbie or two (never thought that the newbies would be written as effectively taking over).

[astrogeologist]

You know, it's one of the cool things about this thread...we come from different backgrounds, different professions, different interests and skills and lives...

We're not American, or Canadian, or British, or Aussie, or French here although we do of course love, appreciate and honor our real world nationalities...

We're Samandans here, united in purpose and pleasure and joy and irritation and friendship over the coolness that is Sam Carter and the brilliance and beauty and charm that is Amanda Tapping.

We bicker about things that happen on the show from time to time...trends we don't like or characters we have issue with...or ships we prefer or don't prefer...some would rather go Titanic and sink all ships altogether...

But in the end it all comes back to one thing and one thing only...our mutual appreciation for Samantha Carter and Amanda Tapping and our enjoyment of a show that means something special to us for one reason or another.

Long live Samanda.

What an absolutely fantastic post for the SaGC's 40,000th post, Uber!!

[astrogeologist]

I think you've hit the nail on the head. To me, the show has long outgrown the need for a "lead" character; the characters they had were strong enough to stand on equal footing and while they would have benefitted from the addition of another well-established, well-written character of equal standing with Sam, Daniel and Teal'c, trying to remake the show around a new lead has done far more harm than good.

Sam, Daniel, Teal'c and Jack have been a winning recipe for eight years. We may not have Jack around anymore, but that doesn't mean we don't enjoy S/D/T anymore. Mitchell can and never will replace Jack in my heart, so they should stop trying to make him fill Jack's shoes by making all the character relationhip on the show revolve around Mitchell and finally allow these characters to really bond with one another and prove that their relationships were deeper than their common friendship with Jack.

Well said, Regan and Kat!

This video is cool...has some great Sam!Action!clips.

Plus, if you grew up watching the Thundercats like I did every day after school, you'll appreciate it all the more.

Carter-O...the coolest Thundercat of them all!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...amanda+tapping

Wonderful Samvid, Uber! Thanks much for posting the link to it

[majorsal]

I agree, Regan - it's not that I wanted RDA to leave, but I did think that we'd get to see some great stuff with Carter, Daniel and Teal'c leading SG-1 with a newbie or two (never thought that the newbies would be written as effectively taking over).

if i'd have read this just before season 9 started, i'd say 'NO WAY!' would that happen. but you hit the nail on the head.





sally

[majorsal]

What an absolutely fantastic post for the SaGC's 40,000th post, Uber!!

i agree!

*gives oober 'special' chocolates*

*yes, 'speh.shial'*






sally

[L.A. Doyle]

I was just watching a music video and it had a clip from Fallen. Sam and Jack were flying the X-302. I absolutely LOVE when Sam gets to fly. She hardly ever gets to fly front seat, or fly at all. I want more opportunities for her to do that. She is in the Air Force, FCOL! It's just so...cool! That's the only word I can think to describe it. On top of being incredibly smart, an excellent soldier, beautiful, funny, charming etc. she can fly! It's just cool. Sam, you rock!

[Tracy Jane]

wait a minute, sam is slipping daniel the snake!?! sorry. in the absense of TJ i felt it was necessary to say something like this. i'm gonna go shower.

ROFL. That's exactly what I thought. I'm still around, I've just got a lot on my plate at the moment, so I'm spending a lot of time skim reading posts, but I don't really have time to post my own posts. I've had five exams, still got....seven (I think) to sit, so I'm nearly there My French tutor (waves hello) was amazing in my oral exam (Mandy, Barbie, Sky.... behave) but we didn't discuss Gate unfortunately. Didn't really relate to the topic.

Anyway, Amanda is awesome and I'm so glad that we can all coexist happily on here. I saw an awesome quote the other day by Amanda... "I dont understand why things arent equal . I dont understand why people can hate people bacause of the color of their skin, their religion or gender." And you know, extending that, how the heck can people be hated or spurned for a character or ship preference.

There's no hatred or sullying going on. We're just playing with the ship thing, and I know that speaking for myself, despite having recent troubles with Sam/Daniel shippers, I am so glad that we've got some new people here, it's really stirred up the conversation. New blood brings new perspectives, new ideas and can do nothing but further a conversation that (due to our now pruned - in a good way - thread) was starting to become a little stagnant.

[Chelle DB]

I was just watching a music video and it had a clip from Fallen. Sam and Jack were flying the X-302. I absolutely LOVE when Sam gets to fly. She hardly ever gets to fly front seat, or fly at all. I want more opportunities for her to do that. She is in the Air Force, FCOL! It's just so...cool! That's the only word I can think to describe it. On top of being incredibly smart, an excellent soldier, beautiful, funny, charming etc. she can fly! It's just cool. Sam, you rock!

I love it when Sam gets to be in charge. But yeah...it is cool and she does rock. And she's got an awesome smile to boot!! But that's Amanda too!!