Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[Skydiver]

this weekend

polls close sundayish...or until i announce the winner on monday

as of now i have10 votes for 4 different eps...and only one vote separates #1 and #2

[Skydiver]

Well, apparently killing Sam's career is perfectly acceptable. Doing anything that might jeopardize Mitchell's future chances of advancement or damage his fragile self-esteem is not..

well fo course!!!

the sad thing about this fandom. a, well morally bankrupt woman who uses her body as a 'weapon/barter system' which furthers the fallacy that all women are incompetant and only capable of advancing through trickery (you know, the kinda of thinking that kept women from being able to vote) is well and fine, but a female that shows a woman who uses her brains and doesn't trade on her gender must be shot down and put in her place, well that's fun and fine and the way things should be...which i still don't get.

Personally, I think that the decision should be based on who would be the better leader - and Sam has proven countless times that she would be the best choice by far..

you would think. instead it's based on a male dominated sexist ideal that the man MUST be the boss....even if he's working with a far more competant female. It's called sexism and gender based discrimination

Are there any fics or virtual seasons out there with Major Mitchell?.

dont' know. frankly i really can't stand the character so when i see him or vala in the synopsis it gets an automatic pass

If they absolutely had to have him as a Lieutenant Colonel, then they could have given him a chance for some real character development and both Mitchell and the other characters an opportunity for some drama had he been assigned command in "Avalon", but if Sam retook it on her return.

if they wanted tension/drama. have him start as major mitchell, then get promoted in s10...and have them deal with it.

although, mitch's actions and the glorification of his incompetance makes me think that there's a 'general mitchell' in the joint chiefs somewhere who's furthering his kid's career and covering up the fact that he's incompetant (yes, i know we know about mitch's dad, i'm just saying that the glorificaion of all his mistakes smacks of somone whose only qualifications for a job is having the right friends)

It would make sense for him to be reckless and out to prove himself in this scenario.

makes sense to me too. buys him time and gives him some leeway instead of putting him directly in the line of fire not only being the leader but the star and the new guy and trying to do all of those roles will

[scarimor]

... but the star and the new guy and trying to do all of those roles will

Hey, did someone eat Sky?

[ReganX]

if they wanted tension/drama. have him start as major mitchell, then get promoted in s10...and have them deal with it.

That would have been a good idea. I don't see Mitchell wanting to leave SG-1, even for his own command, but at the same time I could see him, whether consciously or not, pushing his own ideas forward more and considering himself a co-commander, even if nobody else saw him as such, because he and Sam were now of equal rank.

although, mitch's actions and the glorification of his incompetance makes me think that there's a 'general mitchell' in the joint chiefs somewhere who's furthering his kid's career and covering up the fact that he's incompetant (yes, i know we know about mitch's dad, i'm just saying that the glorificaion of all his mistakes smacks of somone whose only qualifications for a job is having the right friends)

He could have an uncle General Mitchell, or his father might have been injured saving the life of somebody who's now pretty high up the chain of command and feels a certain obligation to help Cam if he can, or maybe he's Landry's secret love child.

The character has been written as so incompetent that scenarios like that are very plausible whereas, for me at least, even after finding out that Sam's dad was a general and Hammond's old friend, there was no doubt that she had earned her position on SG-1 on her own merits.

[RealmOfX]

I don't think they were using anything in season 7. They started putting locators for beaming on individuals in season 9 in Ethon with Daniel, I think. Then in Off the Grid they started implanting them.

As far as I remember, SG-1 did not have locating equipment on them in previous seasons. They just kept in contact by radio.

Anyone know different from a specific episode?

Paradise Lost mentioned a tracking device but I don't remember them elaborating on it.

[Deejay435]

Dammit, Uber, Forever, Astro, none of you will take any green for these captioned pictures!

I'll have to settle for telling you they're really cool.

I wasn't allowed to green any of you either! Excellent jobs, all of you.

Aw heck! Can't green Myrth for the wallpaper either. The green fridge hates me today.

[Deejay435]

Well, apparently killing Sam's career is perfectly acceptable. Doing anything that might jeopardize Mitchell's future chances of advancement or damage his fragile self-esteem is not.

Personally, I think that the decision should be based on who would be the better leader - and Sam has proven countless times that she would be the best choice by far.



Are there any fics or virtual seasons out there with Major Mitchell?

I think that you're right about most of Mitchell's actions being much more acceptable had he not been in command.

If they absolutely had to have him as a Lieutenant Colonel, then they could have given him a chance for some real character development and both Mitchell and the other characters an opportunity for some drama had he been assigned command in "Avalon", but if Sam retook it on her return.

It would make sense for him to be reckless and out to prove himself in this scenario.

Yeah-it's mind boggling, that so many people are fine with the damage to Sam's career, but hold Mitchell's sacrosanct.

Some of the people who argue that taking Sam's command away from her to put her back on SG1 is just fine and dandy are, I believe, deliberately refusing to see the harm it would do to her. Possibly because they are huge Cam fans and have no ability to view the show except through his character, or possibly because they hate Sam. No matter how they may protest that they don't. (My friend J., who started me watching SG1, fits into this category.)

For others though, I think it's because she's a woman. Not to get all feminist here, but society hasn't come to really view the importance of women on par with men yet. I think a lot of people give verbal support to the concept of equity-but deeply socialized ideas and beliefs are hard to overcome. I believe that, unconciously, a lot of people see Mitchell's career as simply more important because he's the man.

[ReganX]

Yeah-it's mind boggling, that so many people are fine with the damage to Sam's career, but hold Mitchell's sacrosanct.

Some of the people who argue that taking Sam's command away from her to put her back on SG1 is just fine and dandy are, I believe, deliberately refusing to see the harm it would do to her. Possibly because they are huge Cam fans and have no ability to view the show except through his character, or possibly because they hate Sam. No matter how they may protest that they don't. (My friend J., who started me watching SG1, fits into this category.)

In terms of future harm to either Sam or Mitchell's careers over the leadership situation, I genuinely think that the current command situation is more damaging to Sam than her retaking command in 'Beachhead' would have been to Mitchell.

Sam was in command of SG-1. Whether TPTB had her as such because of budget cuts, timing or because magical elves told them to is irrelevant. Whatever the reason, she was in command for a full year.

She was transferred to Area 51 and took command of their research and development division. I don't know how many people worked there, but I think that Maybourne had the job at one point, whether she requested this transfer or not I'm not certain.

She was transferred back to Stargate Command, and relegated to the position of second in command, or at best, co-command.

Aside from the fact that anybody reading Sam's "official" file will be under the impression that she went from leading R+D at Area 51 to studying deep space radar telemetry, it will also look like Sam not only screwed up at Area 51 but also did so poorly in her original command that she was not trusted with it a second time, or even offered a command on another team. If she ever wants a post in a department that doesn't know about the stargate, her prospects are not good.

In contrast, Mitchell would have gone to leading a team consisting of himself, to being second in command of SG-1 when it reformed under Sam's leadership.

Which looks worse?

I could see people who dislike Sam's character not caring about her career being hurt, but I can't understand how they can not see it.

For others though, I think it's because she's a woman. Not to get all feminist here, but society hasn't come to really view the importance of women on par with men yet. I think a lot of people give verbal support to the concept of equity-but deeply socialized ideas and beliefs are hard to overcome. I believe that, unconciously, a lot of people see Mitchell's career as simply more important because he's the man.

It's sad to think that people still think like that in this day and age and TPTB should be ashamed of themselves for perpetuating this sexism when they had the chance to rise above it.

[Mickey23]

For others though, I think it's because she's a woman. Not to get all feminist here, but society hasn't come to really view the importance of women on par with men yet. I think a lot of people give verbal support to the concept of equity-but deeply socialized ideas and beliefs are hard to overcome. I believe that, unconciously, a lot of people see Mitchell's career as simply more important because he's the man.

Yes, it is sad to say that the "glass ceiling" still exists. Society still doesn't think of men and women as equals. What are the odds that Americans will get a female president any time soon? Of the 9 Supreme Court justices, only one is a woman (Ruth Bader Ginsburg). Why is that? Society assumes that men are more intelligent, more rational, and more capable of making the decisions. Bah! Where's the proof?

And on another track, look how society treats looks. Say you want to go out to dinner with your boyfriend/girlfriend. They man can wear a T-shirt and jeans or any sloppy thing he has on, and people usually don't make too much of a comment. But if a woman does the same, she gets blasted. She has to dress nice, shave her legs, put on makeup, do her hair, etc. Come on. If men were expected to do all this stuff, the practice would have died out long ago.

More important, or at least more relevant to this topic, how many of TPTB are women? Hmm, think on that one.

Lt. Col Samantha Carter definitely deserves command of SG-1. She proved that she could handle the command, and handle it with distinction. (At the end of "Zero Hour," O'Neill comments that Daniel and Teal'c said great things about her command under fire.)

[Skydiver]

Some of the people who argue that taking Sam's command away from her to put her back on SG1 is just fine and dandy are, I believe, deliberately refusing to see the harm it would do to her. Possibly because they are huge Cam fans and have no ability to view the show except through his character, or possibly because they hate Sam. No matter how they may protest that they don't. (My friend J., who started me watching SG1, fits into this category.)

For others though, I think it's because she's a woman. Not to get all feminist here, but society hasn't come to really view the importance of women on par with men yet. I think a lot of people give verbal support to the concept of equity-but deeply socialized ideas and beliefs are hard to overcome. I believe that, unconciously, a lot of people see Mitchell's career as simply more important because he's the man.

yet, if mitch was a major it woudl not have been an issue

major mitchell got daneil and teal'c back and had a few adventures...then lt colonel carter returned and since she outranked mitch, her taking command woudl not be an issue. it'd be the same as jack taking a vacation, sam taking the team out on a mission or two, then jack coming back and assuming his command again

forcing the immature mitch into a colonel's rank and then forcing the command issue has not only undermined sam's role, but it's also destroyed mitch's chracter.

cause he does not ACT like a commander and lt colonel...he acts like a giddy green captain on his first mission

[Skydiver]

It's sad to think that people still think like that in this day and age and TPTB should be ashamed of themselves for perpetuating this sexism when they had the chance to rise above it.

they should be. sexism very much exists. so does the glass ceiling. i had a boss that would deliberately pay his male employees more because 'they were supporting families' and since i was a single female i deserved to be paid less, since i was only supporting me

i watch incompetant males with the right friends rise in the ranks while the females - and other males to be truthful - get left behind or are put in the position to support said incompetant male, doing all his work while he gets the glory...and nice paycheck

the boys at bridge deliberatly or unconsciously support sexism by how they've written sam the past few years, by how they've written vala and by how they promote cam

chauvenism is rife at bridge studios, and what's even worse is that so few can or will see it and just accept it as 'normal'

attitudes like that are why the girls growing up today will still be paid less to work harder and held to sexist double standards

Sam, as she was written seasons 1-6, was the opposite of the male sexist dieal. she was independant, intelligent and smart. she didn't trade her body or get wehre she was through trickery or friends or favors. she EARNED her position and the respect she had.


but sam is just what the chauvenists are afraid of showing, that women can and are equals to men in many ways. they dont' want that idea to get out there...more competition for them. Rather it's easier - and funner - to degrade women and show them as liars and tricksters and manipulators...because those images make it easier to discount any and all women and their accomplishments.

[ReganX]

yet, if mitch was a major it woudl not have been an issue

major mitchell got daneil and teal'c back and had a few adventures...then lt colonel carter returned and since she outranked mitch, her taking command woudl not be an issue. it'd be the same as jack taking a vacation, sam taking the team out on a mission or two, then jack coming back and assuming his command again

forcing the immature mitch into a colonel's rank and then forcing the command issue has not only undermined sam's role, but it's also destroyed mitch's chracter.

cause he does not ACT like a commander and lt colonel...he acts like a giddy green captain on his first mission

Forcing the character into command without giving him the background and ability he needs for the role has done him no favours. It's not just Sam fans who think that he shouldn't be in command of the team. He has not shown himself capable of leading SG-1.

Having him as a major, or, if TPTB hadn't been wedded to the idea of having Ben Browder on the show, a green lieutenant or captain, would have made his antics more understandable and, in all likelihood, the character himself more likeable.

What did they do with Mitchell in Season Nine that couldn't have been adapted to fit with Major Mitchell?

[Deejay435]

Here's a meloncholy little back-story fic about teenage Sam. It almost brought tears to my eyes:

http://www.stars-like-dust.potameides.com/tequila.htm

[ReganX]

they should be. sexism very much exists. so does the glass ceiling. i had a boss that would deliberately pay his male employees more because 'they were supporting families' and since i was a single female i deserved to be paid less, since i was only supporting me

Whether they are bachelors or fathers of twenty, if they were doing the same work as you were, they should have been paid the same.

Had the situation been reversed, the argument would probably have been made that a single male deserved to be paid more (and to have preference for advancement) as he could devote more time to the job than a woman who had a family to think of could.

[Skydiver]

More important, or at least more relevant to this topic, how many of TPTB are women? Hmm, think on that one.

which is precisely why nothing will ever change. they're too entrenched in their boys club to care. conscious or not, they treat women poorly when they COULD be using thier 'power' to avoid some of that sexist silliness

Lt. Col Samantha Carter definitely deserves command of SG-1. She proved that she could handle the command, and handle it with distinction. (At the end of "Zero Hour," O'Neill comments that Daniel and Teal'c said great things about her command under fire.)

dang skippy she does. she's got more competance in her little finger tahn cam has in his whole body