Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[ChopinGal]

Sam: So, do you think we should tell Vala that all-over tanning is bad for the skin?

Daniel: Mmm... oh, sorry Sam, did you say something?

Oh boy, 1speed dons suit of armor to prepare for defense against RA.

[ForeverSg1]

Back in season one, the storylines were also quite simple. SG1 goes to a planet, gets in trouble, fights, wins and comes back. They had time to explore the relationships between the main characters. Now that we're in season nine, they have to deal with a very big universe, one which has 8 years of history. One of their problems in regards to the team relationships is that the plot is taking advantage of the characters. They can only focus on one or barely two of the cast in the 42 minutes time of an episode. They can't go back to the way the episodes were written back in season one, not in SG1 universe. We can't expect characters with only a year of history in the show to be as complex and developped as those with nine years of history.
There's also how we perceive the new team, and I'm not talking about how the team has been written this year (very lacking in my opinion) but how we're talking about SG1. For some time, I've been reading posts with the "Big 3" and the other guy. How the heck do you expect Cam to fit in the team if you constantly put him apart ? I can only speak for myself but I really dislike the "Big 3" name. I think it reduces Sam, Daniel and Teal'c to a group of individuals only engrossed into their friendship and not very open minded. It's like they're building a big wall between their small group and any other person who'd dare to come too close to them. They're not like that. I really fear if it goes this way in the fans' minds that even with brilliant writing and awesome episodes, poor Cam will never fit into the team. There always be this huge wall between him and the others. Same goes for Vala.
When I said earlier that I wanted more team, it was more Sam, Cam, Daniel and Teal'c together, not more Sam, Daniel and Teal'c and never mind if the other guy is here or not. As far as I'm concerned, SG1 is a four persons team. I know this post won't please some of you but please, keep in mind that it isn't a rant in defense of Cam but in defense of the team.
Now, forgive me if my not so good mood of the moment shows between those lines.

Deepspace, nothing against your post. I agree season 9 is the beginning of a new team. I only quoted you as a reference for my rant.

I totaly understand what you are saying Lys, but it wasn't the fans that separated Mitchell from SG-1, it was the writers. SG-1 isn't a four man team anymore. Like you said, SG-1 is about the stargate universe now. It's about the Ori and the utter destruction they will bring down upon Earth. It's all about shock and awing the audience instead of telling a story about four people who just happen to save the planet on a weekly basis and like you mentioned there is typically only enough time each week to show two of the characters interact; and over the course of the season in almost every instance one of those two people has been Mitchell.

I've really wanted to like Cameron. I know people may read that and think, 'Uh huh, sure.', but rarely have I ever watched a television series and made myself rent other movies/television shows that the actors have been a part of just to try to like them more. I wanted to like Claudia and Ben. I want to give them the benefit of the doubt that they were both much better actors than what the SG-1 script was allowing them to be.

I think one of the reasons people started calling Sam, Daniel and Teal'c the 'big three' was more of a means to remind TPTB that regardless of how much they hyped and pushed Mitchell and Vala, in many of our minds the stars of the show were and would always be the remaining three cast members. I don't think anyone wanted to see Mitchell sit on sidelines anymore than we wanted to see Sam sitting there.

I agree Mitchell is the new guy and yes it takes times to get to know him, but that doesn't mean we should be force fed episodes revolving around Mitchell until he has an equal history to that of the other three characters.

I am not asking the writers to fill twenty episodes a year with special moments between Sam, Daniel and Teal'c; but it would sure be nice if we got at least a handful a season. Camelot is a perfect example, why couldn't they have just given us a brief scene with Sam/Teal'c on the planet chatting. I'm sorry, but I don't understand why they couldn't have cut a bit of the slow-mo knight fighting scene to add something like this into the episode.

I just think the writers are spending way too much time trying to give us shock and awe shots of people burning at the stake, slo-mo battle scenes, holographic knight fights and CGI intensive space battles that there is very little time left to really have any team moments and to be honest I'm simply not impressed. This season may seem great to many people, but it's been truly disappointing to me and Mitchell will never truly be a member of SG-1 in my eyes until the writers actually start writing him as a member of the TEAM instead of Mitchell AND his merry band of intergalatic space heroes.

[ChopinGal]

I totaly understand what you are saying Lys, but it wasn't the fans that separated Mitchell from SG-1, it was the writers. SG-1 isn't a four man team anymore. Like you said, SG-1 is about the stargate universe now. It's about the Ori and the utter destruction they will bring down upon Earth. It's all about shock and awing the audience instead of telling a story about four people who just happen to save the planet on a weekly basis and like you mentioned there is typically only enough time each week to show two of the characters interact; and over the course of the season in almost every instance one of those two people has been Mitchell.

I've really wanted to like Cameron. I know people may read that and think, 'Uh huh, sure.', but rarely have I ever watched a television series and made myself rent other movies/television shows that the actors have been a part of just to try to like them more. I wanted to like Claudia and Ben. I want to give them the benefit of the doubt that they were both much better actors than what the SG-1 script was allowing them to be.

I think one of the reasons people started calling Sam, Daniel and Teal'c the 'big three' was more of a means to remind TPTB that regardless of how much they hyped and pushed Mitchell and Vala, in many of our minds the stars of the show were and would always be the remaining three cast members. I don't think anyone wanted to see Mitchell sit on sidelines anymore than we wanted to see Sam sitting there.

I agree Mitchell is the new guy and yes it takes times to get to know him, but that doesn't mean we should be force fed episodes revolving around Mitchell until he has an equal history to that of the other three characters.

I am not asking the writers to fill twenty episodes a year with special moments between Sam, Daniel and Teal'c; but it would sure be nice if we got at least a handful a season. Camelot is a perfect example, why couldn't they have just given us a brief scene with Sam/Teal'c on the planet chatting. I'm sorry, but I don't understand why they couldn't have cut a bit of the slow-mo knight fighting scene to add something like this into the episode.

I just think the writers are spending way too much time trying to give us shock and awe shots of people burning at the stake, slo-mo battle scenes, holographic knight fights and CGI intensive space battles that there is very little time left to really have any team moments and to be honest I'm simply not impressed. This season may seem great to many people, but it's been truly disappointing to me and Mitchell will never truly be a member of SG-1 in my eyes until the writers actually start writing him as a member of the TEAM instead of Mitchell AND his merry band of intergalatic space heroes.

Kat, I can't green you or mini but you both have just written excellent posts. And, thank you Lys for calling forth some really good discussion.

Kudos to our passionate Samandans!

[ForeverSg1]

I was thinking of using fic or the like as currency personally... but whatever floats your boat

Well seeing as I'm not capable of writing readable fic, I'll have to pay in other means. I don't believe RDA will be in any of the season ten episodes; however, if RDA/Jack is actually in the 200th episode as more than a clip, I'll use my personalized autograph at Gabit to have Amanda sign whatever picture you wish...to you. That is as long as it's acceptable by the G4.

But! And that's a mighty big but...if RDA doesn't actually appear in the 200th episode, then you and Oober have to promise to have your special project completed by the first day of Gabit. It will be your job to bullwhip Oober into completing it.

[Skydiver]

the term 'big three' also comes from the cons. when folks are asking which actors will appear, the con organizers will say yes or no if one of the 'big three' will come - rda being excluded since he does not do cons, not as a slight

now with the new folks, that termanology just carries over

i do think that cam and vala have potential. not only do they need to tone vala down, but cam too. they need, imho, to find a better balance between giddy newness and believable confidence. he can be excited while still acting competant. Jack did it all the time. Jack still had his 'wow' moments while he acted like a competant leader, as did Sam.

vala...i'm afraid that no matter what they do i will always have issues with her. to me, she was introduced too poorly. coop said in the most recent stargate mag that he knew she'd be back from the onset (the quote is along the line of the soonest we thought she'd be back is season ten thus implying from the very beginning of s9 they planned to have her at least recure), yet they still persisted in writing her as fun and OTT, even knowing that they'd have to deal with it further down the line.

bad planning, imho.

i'm sure she will be toned down, yet even in doing that will her abrupt change of heart and attitude be believable? Would it be believable if daniel, in the middle of season two, decided to enlist and join the military? or started to shoot first and talk later?

vala beconing a sweet adn adorable and sympathetic character stands a good chance of being too much of a change from the OTT rascal she was introduced as.

Cam, as unevenly as he has been written, has had a mixture of silly and competant. so when - if - he goes more competant it'll be an easier sell since the ingredients are already there.

vala....vala's change would be like Sam suddenly turning into the tart and throwing herself at any and all available males...funny sure, but so not in character, not as she's already been established

[minigeek]

I don't believe RDA will be in any of the season ten episodes; however, if RDA/Jack is actually in the 200th episode as more than a clip, I'll use my personalized autograph at Gabit to have Amanda sign whatever picture you wish...to you. That is as long as it's acceptable by the G4.

So Myrth... better start planning what salutation you want Amanda to use. Does pen color matter? lol

mg

[Mandysg1]

I have to say that all the previous posts have been excellent on the subject of the "Big 3" However the reason I use "Big 3" is because I have become lazy and find it easier to write that Sam, Daniel and Teal'c (hmm I wonder if someone is rubbing of on me )

I think the PTB handled bringing in a new character much better in S6 with Jonas. I'm not saying Jonas is a better character than Cam, I'm saying they handled his addition to the show much better. He was slowly integrated onto the team, he had to earn his positon, which we don't see with Cam. or reasons why he deserves to remain on the team. He probably would have been accepted and "liked" much better had the writers taken time to add him to the team, having him earn the positon and see glimpses of his history throughout the season, instead of all the Cam-centric eposodes showing us stuff about him that made us think "eh, so what" or "do I really care about his dying friend" Just MHO

[Mandysg1]

Yes, it is, but pants is another word that hasn't really been uttered in five-ten years. My friends and I seem to have picked up this weird habit of using words like pants, naff, slack and all that British slang that everyone thought dead and buried.

Personally, I love the word naff, because it's not strong enough to be moderated, but the meaning behind it is still the same. You can tell someone to naff off, or they added naff all to the conversation. It was the precurser to the F word.

And, yes, it's a word used across the British Isles (before anyone says "and Ireland" please look up the differences between Great Britain, United Kingdom and British Isles... all COMPLETELY different)

Completely confused Canadian here
You mean there's a difference btw Great Britain, United Kingdom and British Isles

[the dancer of spaz]

Ooh welcome new person

Hey I just wanted to pop up and lay a little wager amongst friends here @ Samanda. I bet anyone who'll take the bet, that we'll see RDA in the 200th ep.

Not sure what to wager for exactly, but I'm open to suggestion... any takers?

Myrth, normally I'd take you up on that offer, but you seem a bit too confident...

So I'm going to take a certain condition from that wager, and bet you that we only see Jack via satellite or some kind of SGC "podcast" from D.C.. Or... that he's using some kind of tech from Thor.

I won't complain though. We take what we can get, right?

[Formerhost]

I agree CG. But well said, Lys. Your point is well taken. One of the reasons I've never used the term "Big 3" is because (to me) it's no different than another term I've heard bandied about "The Second Original SG-1". I'd rather not go in either of those directions, frankly.

Having said that ... I don't think my opinion of Cam Mitchell is really swayed by that mentality, either. I think I can quite honestly say that I'm not compartmentalizing SG-1 to the old guard - I really do want the team to work, and I was looking forward to seeing where the new characters would head in season nine (though I'll admit I always knew I'd miss the "Jack" element).

On the one hand, Lys makes a very good point about complexity of storyline being different in this season than it has previously. On the other hand, if you lose the human element of the storytelling and marginalize the character growth in favor of special effects and action sequences, you also lose the heart of the story, regardless of what it is. We need to know who these (new) people are, and we need to care, or we won't be able to care about their plight, nor the action sequences they're involved in.

I agree with Lys in that I think the primary challenge the writing team has tackled this past year has been trying to marry the idea of continuing SG-1 as an established series with recasting it. But I disagree that I (for one) have been pidgeon-holeing the team into an old box. I think I'd be among the first to admit that the team needs new vitality - especially with Jack now absent - and new characters can certainly bring that to the mix.

But if those new characters are going to be leaders (for example), right out of the box, then they need to come in with a solid backstory and a solid character basis to support that level of respect running forward. The fact is, they're going to have to "pay their dues" no matter how they come in, however, I think the mistake the writers made was making Cameron Mitchell so "green". Had he the experience, maturity of character and the backstory that (I think) his current role demands, people like me would be far happier to accept him as an integral part of the well-established (very solid and experienced) SG-1 team. I find Cameron a weak character at present. And if the storyline currently is too intense and complex to allow him to be grown before we plunge even farther forward, I'm afraid he'll lose even more sympathy from the audience - because it makes him little more than a continual recurring presence, without depth. He needs (and his character deserves) more than that; even if it means sacrificing a space battle or four.

Now, Vala, I have to say I've begun to feel somewhat differently about. Since her reappearance, she's been more REAL. Less of a stereotypical burlesque. Ironically, I realize that's because she was re-introduced as a mother-to-be, but regardless of the reason why, I can see that Vala already has a layer of depth to her that can expand and grow. Very ironically, she has more potential depth of character already than I personally feel Mitchell does. That's almost entirely due to the nuances of the dialogue she's been given (more recently). You can see there's more underneath, waiting to be uncovered. I'd like to see more of that kind of thing with Cam, should he remain. A lot more, frankly. Because good stories are about people. No matter how many flashy action sequences we want to fit in between.

minigeek

Very, very, very true. Good stories are about people and "Crusade" is just perfect example of this, great character study IMO.

[Mandysg1]

Myrth, normally I'd take you up on that offer, but you seem a bit too confident...

So I'm going to take a certain condition from that wager, and bet you that we only see Jack via satellite or some kind of SGC "podcast" from D.C.. Or... that he's using some kind of tech from Thor.

I won't complain though. We take what we can get, right?

Hmmm? Maybe he can have Carter beamed to the nearest supply closet for Sally

[the dancer of spaz]

For some time, I've been reading posts with the "Big 3" and the other guy. How the heck do you expect Cam to fit in the team if you constantly put him apart ? I can only speak for myself but I really dislike the "Big 3" name. I think it reduces Sam, Daniel and Teal'c to a group of individuals only engrossed into their friendship and not very open minded. It's like they're building a big wall between their small group and any other person who'd dare to come too close to them. They're not like that. I really fear if it goes this way in the fans' minds that even with brilliant writing and awesome episodes, poor Cam will never fit into the team. There always be this huge wall between him and the others. Same goes for Vala.
When I said earlier that I wanted more team, it was more Sam, Cam, Daniel and Teal'c together, not more Sam, Daniel and Teal'c and never mind if the other guy is here or not. As far as I'm concerned, SG1 is a four persons team. I know this post won't please some of you but please, keep in mind that it isn't a rant in defense of Cam but in defense of the team.
Now, forgive me if my not so good mood of the moment shows between those lines.

Ah, the voix de la raison strikes again.

Lys, I totally understand where you're coming from with that. It makes complete sense.

In the phrase's defense, I think it was just a bit too catchy for some people to let go. I can't speak for anyone else, but I guess I've got to say that my usage of "The Big 3" is my way of passively rebelling against what TPTB have done to the three original characters. Which is to say that they've severely downplayed the three characters who made this show popular in some attempt to... well, anyway, they've severely downplayed the three original characters. And there are a lot of reasons why I think they've done that, but that's besides the point - or at least for another thread.

Despite what my ire suggests elsewhere on this forum, I decided to give both Cameron and Vala a chance long ago. Again, I won't go into the motivations behind why these characters are on SG-1. I just know that at the start of Avalon, I was giddy and nervous. Though I wasn't all that impressed with Prometheus Unbound, and I had never seen Farscape before, I'd heard great things about both Ben Browder and Claudia Black. I was also hoping that, despite everyone's predictions, the three original actors were secure enough in their positions within the dynamics of the series, so that bringing on two other actors wouldn't be a problem. I was hoping we'd been just been paranoid, that we'd been wrong all along.

You can tell how talented CB and BB are, even with the material theyr'e working with these days. But in Avalon, it was there. Cameron almost won me over with "Whoa, whoa, whoa man..." and I actually first saw potential for Vala

Spoiler:

when she tried to alleviate Daniel's fears of Cameron and Teal'c being crushed in those chambers. In her own odd way, Vala knew that Daniel was scared, and she said what she thought would calm him down.

They're good characters, imo. Or, at least they could be. With some consistent writing and equalized direction, I think it could most definitely work. And I'm wondering if maybe the actors should have more say in how certain scenes are played out... Silly and unrealistic at this point, I know... but in this case, I think it could work. I have a bit more faith in them at the moment, unfortunately.

I only respond to your post, Lys, because I can only speak for myself and how I feel about "The Big 3." I don't want to make a sweeping statement about anyone on this forum who may or may not agree with me. But I really think it's good that you brought this up on this particular thread. I personally don't want to become a card-carrying Sammy Ranter, because I think that's the antithesis of what this thread and her fans are supposed to be about.

At the same time, I am still waiting for that moment where I can honestly say that I'm 100% confident that SG-1's record-breaking tenth season will be phenomenal. I'm still waiting for SG-1 to shine so that all of the naysayers and mainstream critics will have a reason to legitimately give this show the recognition it so deserved in the past. I'm still waiting for the turn around, the 180, a sign that the qualities of the original series - the qualities that earned this show a worldwide fandom - will be coming back some time this July. Right now, though, I'm just not seeing that happening.

Prior to this season, I considered myself a hippie fan. I felt that, ya know, you go with the flow, let the show take you wherever, and enjoy what good you doget from it. I don't want to say I've been jaded by this season and all of the politics that have gone on... But I definitely have a new perspective on it.

Still, I feel like Cameron and Vala can work well on this show, and can gel with the original characters (TO3?) if given the chance. Theoretically. If utilized properly. If certain cooks get out of the kitchen.

Here's hoping.

[ShimmeringStar]

Great posts everyone…. wish I had more time to respond, but as long as it takes to skim through my usual threads while I’m here eating my lunch at work, it doesn’t leave enough time to respond to some really well-thought out and heartfelt posts.

One thing (amongst many which I won’t go into here) that is contributing to my concern about S9 is that there’s no tension amongst the current team. By that I mean that for SG1:OriginalTeam there were clear-cut, palpable boundaries defined by the military organization they were in and by the character’s situations themselves. For example, with Jack there was always an obvious hard tension his relationships with each of the team members and, no matter how much Jack cared personally/individually for each of them, he expected his orders to be followed come hell or high water, no matter how much they complained or refused. And with some exceptions, his orders/decisions were followed.

With Sam there was even more tension – a dual tension – since she had not just the superior officer/subordinate officer thing that Teal’c and Daniel didn’t have with Jack, but also the messier subtler romantic/primal attraction thing going on. There was even more push and pull. Sometimes this part won out, sometimes it didn’t. But regardless, it was very clear who was in charge, what the issues were, why the tensions existed (the AF regs and the characters' sense of integrity and honor) and it created many wonderful moments between Sam and Jack. And between Jack and the team.

AND – most importantly, it was obvious (IMOHO) starting with COTG that these tensions existed. They didn't need "developed" nor flashbacked nor expositoried-into-kingdom-come – theose tensions and chemistries were there... whether it was the actor's doing, the writers, the directors... and we "got" them and the story from the beginning without being hit over the head with it.

Now I do see an obvious reaction of tension, or more like stress, that the team suffers as they find out that Cam has gone off again *on his own* to do what he thought was right. But that kind of tension doesn’t grip me the way the other tension had. It makes me want to send Cam to the corner for a time out is what it makes me wanna do! SG was about teamwork and friendship, but there were still tensions (the right kind of tensions) that made it all interesting.

The AF, or any military organization for that matter, isn’t all about decisions or leadership by committee. There does have to be cooperative leadership amongst team, platoon, battalion, etc. leaders, but there’s still a hierarchial structure so that someone at the grunt level doesn’t have to bear totally the burden of making a decision that maims/kills/whatever a large group of people. But that's not what I’ve seen on SG this season where characters defer to each other, 'should we do this, should we do that,' 'awww heck, I’m tired of waiting for a decision, let me run off and do my own thing'…..

And, no, I’m not trying to contribute to the Cam/Sam command arguments – I’m just trying to explain in a general overall way, that tension wasn’t there this season and that I’m getting a feeling that it’s one of the things that’s subtly irking me now. Heck, I don’t even feel the same tension and sense of authority with Lam that Hammond had over the team or the base.

Oh well. Sorry for the mini-rant. Guess I’m trying to still figure it all out. I haven’t stopped watching yet. Didn’t get hooked on SG for nothing….

(And it makes it all the more interesting --- my booking for a con that’s not until November – S10 will already be “in the bag” at that point and they’ll likely know by that point if there will be (or will be in negotiations for) a S11. And we’ll have already gotten through half of the S10 episodes as viewers.)

Wonder what the SG and fandom landscape’ll be like at that time…

[the dancer of spaz]

Wonder what the SG and fandom landscape’ll be like at that time…

It's weird to think that far out, eh? You should probably buy a helmet of some kind!

How much longer before the Vancouver Convention?! Kat? Where's your countdown?

[minigeek]

It's weird to think that far out, eh? You should probably buy a helmet of some kind!

If there is a season eleven, and we're not all "winding down" from a decade of SG-1, now (then) cancelled...