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    Originally posted by Tracy Jane
    You see, and I know this sounds bad, there's part of me that identifies with Pete. He's got this amazing girlfriend, really amazing and way out of his league. It must make him incredibly insecure... why on Earth would she want to be with him? Anyway, he's opened himself up to her, something that, as a hardened police officer, he probably doesn't do all that often, and then she blocks him out. He must be wondering what's going on, why it's such a big secret... maybe she doesn't really work and "work" is a synonym for he other guy she's got on the side. Especially when she works such long hours.

    You can see the insecurity there, how he must feel. The thing is that we always see these things from Sam's point of view. Yes, he left her feeling insecure and vulnerable, but that's how she made him feel in the first place.
    yes, i agree he was quite insecure, but that doesn't excuse how he acted. i have other issues with him in addition to this, based on people I've known who were very much like him from what i saw, but i don't think that TPTB intended these character traits in him. or perhaps they did. i saw a lot of potential for him to be a total control freak, and Sam does have a history with this kind of relationship (Jonas Hanson), or at least its been hinted at.

    i just think he behaved unreasonably, and it was just brushed aside.

    i do feel a little sorry for him, but i don't think his attitude and behaviour was excusable. and i think they tried to over compensate for this in later episodes. which just made for an inconsistent character.

    and i don't think that she made him feel insecure and vulnerable in the first place. i didn't get that at all. of course i only watched the episode about twice in full, so maybe i missed it.

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      yeah. i can see things from pete's pov.
      ok, go with this. he's in a job that full of macho. and he's used to being mr macho in a way. he's a cop, he's used to being a figure of respect.

      and here is this gorgous woman that falls for him and...well in many ways, she's cooler than him. she, well maybe not as impressed as he's used to. and so he's curious. he, as a male, has to feel a bit put off by the fact that she's so incredibly confident and sure of herself. and teh shoe's on the other foot.

      you also gotta remmber that he's fresh off a divorce. he's been hurt and has to be gun shy. which would be another reason to look into her past, to see if he's gonna be hurt too.

      i do think he was a little insistent at times, and a total cad to leave her in bed but...to me, the stalker personna is a bit ott. i don't care for it but i do see how some others do. just like Laira is often demonized in fic.
      Where in the World is George Hammond?


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        i actually had a problem with laira because i just cannot watch that actress. i don't know what it is, i don't know why, but i just cannot watch her.
        i actually can't be objective about her character because of it. so i'm not even gonna touch it.

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          I don't like the Jack/Laira thing. Not so much because I don't like the character, but because I don't like the way the character was written. Jack supposedly had this relationship with her, yet it wasn't dealt with at all after the one episode, same with Sam and Jonas. I really have a bee in my bonnet about those sorts of things.

          I mean... surely those relationships had some sort of lasting effect? Surely when Sam got engaged to Pete or when she was considering breaking up with Pete, she would have made some sort of subtle reference to the last engagement. It's like she'd never been engaged before. Grrrrrr.


          Sorry, I seem to be in rant mode tonight.
          Yepp, it's blank down here.

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            Originally posted by stargate barbie
            i understood from the introduction of even the idea of his character that he was always going to be a plot device in the s/j relationship. but i don't think they should have taken it as far as they did, and i don't think he was a well written plot device (replicarter or fifth = excellent plot device IMO, pete = bad plot device IMO).

            and even though i understand the reasons behind having him discover the truth about sams work, but they definitely could have had him discover it in a much better way that didn't make him a jerk. and if they had to go the way they did with it, i really think that sam should have dumped him at the end of the episode. it made her seem weaker than she really is to me, and i think it lead to me believing she has a lot more personal issues than i did before. which could have been great character development had they gone into it further, but they didn't.

            i'm gonna stop now before i end up writing a thesis on character vs plot development in stargate. oh me and my wacky rambling...
            I can't help but always feel the same way about Pete and Chimera. Yes, he is and never will be anything more than a cheap plot device. Sorry, but there's just nothing else there except "gee, she's perfect". This is one of those instances where I can't separate the production concerns/situations from the actual story. Given the way that Pete was written, given his actions and role in Chimera, and given the fact that Carter's "romance" with Pete is pockmarked with the extremely significant emotional events of Death Knell, Heroes, and Lost City, I am firmly convinced that Pete was intended as a one-off character. I can't help but believe that Carter was supposed to chuck his prying ass to the curb at the end of Chimera. It just doesn't fit that Carter and the SGC forgive all and move on as if the whole experience has endeared Pete to them.

            No, when Chimera and Grace were first envisioned everybody believed that season 7 was certain to be the last. That's why Carter's relationship with O'neill continues to have even more prominence and value assigned to it as season 7 progresses, despite her supposed "committment" to Pete. I think Pete's original purpose in Chimera was to push Carter even closer to O'neill, to prove to her that a "normal" life is a pipe dream for her because she does not live a normal life.

            When it became clear that an eigth season was very likely, things had to be altered. But they were too far along in production to completely rewrite that whole arc. Changing that many scripts was simply impossible. So, just Chimera gets changed. And just the ending at that. The result is that Pete is now more unlikable than ever. Him getting a free pass from Carter and the SGC is the most unbelievable part of the whole story. And Carter's and O'neill's will they/won't they story continues on as though Pete doesn't exist at all. Pete is now even more of a plot device than ever, providing a flimsy, gossmar-like barrier to any real resolution for Carter and O'neill. He's not a threat, and everyone knows it. He just becomes an annoying burden that allows the writers to drag the Sam/Jack ship out for another season. In this case production concerns trump any realistic character development for Pete, Sam, or Jack.

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              i can also see why pete did what he did, but I don't think it makes him a good person (or at least not a good boyfriend). he was put off by sam being...well, sam...but IMO, that's not a reason to check up on her, or leave her in bed. be annoyed, yes. maybe even scared, but not stalk her. I don't think he'd do that unless he didn't already have a penchant for it. that doesn't make him bad, but it makes him the kind of guy I'd be hesitant to get close to, let alone seriously date. especially since, as a cop, I'd hope he'd understand my situation better than other guys (one of the reasons I think she was attracted to him in the first place).
              I do see the fear of getting hurt, though, and it's a very uncomfortable situation for both of them. I just don't think it justifies his actions (which, of course, is just MO). honestly, what he did really disgusts me, and I can't get the taste out of my mouth. I feel bad for Sam--I feel bad for Pete--but I think she made a mistake staying with him after Chimera.
              sigpic
              "Out of the Abyss" (SJ Angst)....................Best New Author.................."Else Close the Wall Up" (Sam)
              Hic Comitas Regit. Welcome to Samanda.

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                some of my issues with pete is, well personally, i feel if he had been played by some generic guest actor of the week, he never woulda been seen past chimera. however, given the actor's personal connections to the show, the writers had a fondness for the character that allowed them to ignore the very mixed reactions to pete and promote him beyond what was originally conceived to be a one episode run
                Where in the World is George Hammond?


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                  Originally posted by Skydiver
                  pete fell in the plot hole of 'how did he get to the stakeout' and never clawed his way out.
                  Unfortunately, he dragged Sam into the plot hole of 'how did your self-reliance, self-respect, and self-image get ground into the quicksand that had you treated like this and made you do nothing about it other than cry?' too, and, I'm not sure she's ever climbed out of that one, either - or will ever be allowed to climb out, now that the writers have other toys with which they prefer to play.

                  Bah.

                  IMO, Sam was more victimized by the bad writing that marked her relationship with Pete than he was.
                  ...a very cranky blog:http://simhavaktra.blogspot.com/

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Skydiver
                    some of my issues with pete is, well personally, i feel if he had been played by some generic guest actor of the week, he never woulda been seen past chimera. however, given the actor's personal connections to the show, the writers had a fondness for the character that allowed them to ignore the very mixed reactions to pete and promote him beyond what was originally conceived to be a one episode run
                    I can see where you're coming from, Sky, and I've often wondered the same thing myself. If he was any other random actor, just another Vancouvan wannabe, would he have been brought back? I'd like to think yes, but I have a niggling feeling that it is yet another case of "The In Crowd" and "How Many Times Can I Fit My Family In This Season". This comment is by no means meant to be discrediting to any of the DeLuise family, all of whom I respect greatly as actors, but DeLuise and Judge themselves said on a commentary that they had an ongoing competition to see how many family members they could get on.

                    There again, isn't that how it's always been in film circles? Not what you know, it's who you know.
                    Yepp, it's blank down here.

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                      sam was also victimized by writers that are/were so threatened by a competant female that they didn't know how to handle her. they had and have no idea how to write this wonderful character so they reduce her to a cliche.

                      i mean, look at how sam reacted to pete? isn't that every man's dream? to have this gorgous female that totally forgives them, loves them , adores them and just, well is a total door mat. she's a trophy girl and sam, in chimera, was very much a cliche
                      Where in the World is George Hammond?


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                        Originally posted by Simhavaktra
                        Unfortunately, he dragged Sam into the plot hole of 'how did your self-reliance, self-respect, and self-image get ground into the quicksand that had you treated like this and made you do nothing about it other than cry?' too, and, I'm not sure she's ever climbed out of that one, either - or will ever be allowed to climb out, now that the writers have other toys with which they prefer to play.

                        Bah.

                        IMO, Sam was more victimized by the bad writing that marked her relationship with Pete than he was.
                        i agree, although i do think that there was groundwork there already for sam having issues with her self in this regard.
                        her mother died when she was reasonably young.
                        this led to some serious fallout between her brother and her father.
                        so she had little or no female influence during her adolescense,
                        her brother basically disowned her and her father,
                        from what we can tell she wasn't exactly close to her father for many years,
                        and she had a relationship with someone who had a less than healthy mental state, which would not have been good for the ol' self esteem in her personal life.
                        then she falls for the one (reasonably) normal guy that she can't have. and even he has a ton of baggage.

                        she just didn't have a great experience with normal guys, and relationships.
                        i feel that her relationship with pete played into this further, when it possibly should have been helping her get away from and get over a lot of her... issues, shall we say.

                        that was my justification for her not ending her relationship with pete sooner. that and she was desperately trying to move passed her feelings for jack whom she believed no longer felt the same way about her, so she just figured, hey screw this, i'll make it work.

                        she's very determined once she sets her mind to something.

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                          I honestly don't think the whole deluise connection came into it this time. PDL had no real creative input in chimera. Kindler wrote it, Waring directed (although it was originally slated to be Amanda's episode), and the only other one who would probably have had input in the casting was RCC.

                          I honestly don't think that it was narcissism, and i never have. of course i have been wrong in the past. just not very often (kidding)

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Simhavaktra
                            Unfortunately, he dragged Sam into the plot hole of 'how did your self-reliance, self-respect, and self-image get ground into the quicksand that had you treated like this and made you do nothing about it other than cry?' too, and, I'm not sure she's ever climbed out of that one, either - or will ever be allowed to climb out, now that the writers have other toys with which they prefer to play.

                            Bah.

                            IMO, Sam was more victimized by the bad writing that marked her relationship with Pete than he was.
                            Oh, there's no doubt about that. Pete as a character had nothing to lose from the situation, it defined who he was in the show. And he never had to worry about continuing beyond the entire ill-executed story. My biggest complaint is that, given the joy that is season nine, the whole thing was a complete waste of time. Any epiphany or life changing development for Sam has been ignored this year, ostensibly for the sake of giving the new characters a chance to "catch up." Like that's ever going to happen.

                            Sam this year has been "exposition girl", separated from the team as often as not, limited to her role as a scientist, and had her command (and ambition, apparently) magically usurped by a slick resume. Bottom line, Sam Carter has regressed as a character in season nine. And that makes her not quite as great or entertaining as she used to be.

                            More's the pity.

                            Comment


                              warning, warning, rant time ahead!


                              are you still there?





                              i was watching some videos last night (http://www.snyart.com/info/sg_videos.htm), and... it almost made me cry. just *last year*, sam was one of the leading characters on stargate sg1. this season, i feel like she's a supporting player. it could all be because of amanda's schedule (purposely reducing to give amanda the time for her child), but i'm not sure. we aren't hearing it from amanda or a ptb.

                              and who here thinks this 'problem' is going to reverse itself next season? it's bad enough trying to find something for sam when they gave (one of) her jobs to mitchell, but now we're going to add *another* full-time character, and another trait of sam's is being given to this character.

                              i love sam and amanda, but i just... don't know if i want to continue watching. i LOVE her, but it's like watching sam suddenly be changed in a corner.

                              is it as bad as i'm seeing it?

                              oh, and shall i go into my pain of the sam/jack UNRESOLVED relationship...




                              sally
                              sally

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                                Originally posted by jckfan55
                                My 2 cents on the episode. I haven't read everyone's posts yet, but just had to get it off my chest. The episode held my interest and I amazingly didn't hate Vala, but
                                Spoiler:
                                I was appalled by the fact that this was basically an all-Vala episode with Sam, Teal'c and even Cam reduced to asking her questions. And what a missed opportunity to show off MS' acting ability. Why didn't they have him tell the story (being Vala) and then we could see CB in the flashbacks? Oh wait--because TPTB are in love w/ Vala and want to showcase her at every opportunity. Silly me.
                                or, they didn't want it to come off as another daniel/vala hour. (which i'm very grateful for!)



                                sally
                                sally

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