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    OK. I posted this in the "Who Should Lead SG-1" thread, where inevitably there's a battlefront from time to time, however I thought it'd be neat to discus some of the more Sam-centric implications as well. Without the potential for a warzone. Being too lazy to reword again, I thought I'd repost some of the thoughts I'd been having as-is, just here, and see if perhaps we might want to discuss some of the ways in which Sam has been shown to be "In Charge" over the course of Season Nine (despite the apparent ambiguity of command).

    In the spirit of that...

    --- Cross Post ---

    Originally posted by FROM: Who Should Lead SG-1
    http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...=24329&page=18

    In the current scenario as developed by the writers for season nine, I have to respectfully say I think it has to be Carter. Primarily because we've seen Mitchell written as less than ept when it comes to the leadership issue.

    I've read others who strongly support Mitchell as being the "tactical" leader whereby Carter should necessarily be the analytical 2IC, but I can't agree with that because Mitchell simply isn't written as Carter's tactical superior.

    It would be simpler for me to agree with that kind of logic if there was a strong tactical commander in place. A commander with the appropriate experience and decisiveness to lead the team, and who has enough behind him or her that the other 3 members of SG-1 could truly respect that individual as a leader. Someone higher ranking than Carter, and someone who's been around the block a lot more times in the tactical arena. In that case, I would concur that Carter would continue to be an outstanding analytical mind to second any tactical genuis in the field that way.

    Thus far, however, the writing for season nine has portrayed Cameron Mitchell as flighty, prone to rash, often dangerous lapses in military judgement, and less than experienced. He's not Carter's superior in anything (other than perhaps his ability as a pilot - though we don't even know for certain if that's the case yet, either). As the new leader for the flag-ship team at the SGC? No way.

    He flys by the seat of his pants - even in the face of experienced counsel to the contrary. He makes careless decisions and deals with their ramifications in an overzealous, almost childish manner, and more often than not, he doesn't abide by the advice and suggestions of his team mates vis a vis their respective expertise(s).

    While Jack O'Neill was irreverant and had little patience for pandering to authority simply for the sake of "rules", even he was depicted as an effectual leader, as a seasoned professional in the heat of combat, and as a competent and decisive decision-maker who put the needs and the safety of his team before his personal agenda(s).

    Thus far, Carter has shown far more tactical decision-making prowess than Mitchell has when it comes to the command scenarios we've seen in season nine.

    Mitchell gets up and runs into conflic screaming and weapons blazing; Carter calculates and forms a logical analysis of a situation, then executes. It's a different style than O'Neill but none less effective, and the writing this season has suppored the innuendo that the team turns more often to Sam Carter for guidance in that respect, than to Mitchell. She knows what's going on, she's got the risks lined up, and she's been more than capable.

    I haven't seen that in Mitchell. I see him as more of a hot-head without a moderator in place. And I think that's the way TPTB have intended to write his character. Ergo if it's a choice between Carter and Mitchell for CO in the chain of command, Carter wins hands down.


    minigeek
    Now, if we strip away the argument of Sam over Mitchell, or vice versa, I actually really do think the writers are leaning in the direction of Carter as a command figure this season, given she's been making all the difficult calls. Coordinating the troops, formulating strategy. While Mitchell learns the ropes. Why they're "sharing" command, I still cannot (logically) fathom, but it certainly does appear that almost despite themselves, the writing team has ended up portraying Carter as the more efficient, more competant officer in an SG field team capacity.

    Having said that, I can't see how they'll continue down this route and still insist that Mitchell is an SG-1 leader. I think they're going to have to choose - and sooner than later.

    To most of us, of course, the choice is rather obvious. But beyond even that boolean indicator, Carter's character is at a point now where I think she couldn't be second to Mitchell.

    And that's not an ego issue, imho, it's simply a matter of truth and experience. I know we've all thought about this a great deal here and discussed it from time to time. But the longer it plays out in canon on the series, the more I see them having to make a call.

    I wonder what will happen with that. Because I wouldn't put it past them to promote Mitchell to full bird before they think of giving Carter that due. And then...

    minigeek

    Live On Stage in Toronto - August 8,9,10 2008
    ~all proceeds to benefit charity~

    Comment


      Originally posted by DEM
      Yes, well, this is what happens when the writers believe RCC is "Mr Science". It's scary. Ever tried to follow the conversation between Carter and Lt Simmons in Redemption 1 regarding power fluctuations in the Gate? It makes no sense. It's as if the two characters switch roles halfway through.

      BTW, I'm confused about the spoiler policy in this thread. Sometimes current season stuff is spoilered out, sometimes it isn't. Someone help, please?
      Well, technically the spoiler rules apply to everything except Episode Specific Threads. The rule is that Spoiler Tags must be used until the episode airs in syndication. I'm a stickler for Spoiler Tags and get very upset when they aren't used.

      However, recently (in many threads, but I've especially noticed it in Samanda and S/J Ship) people have become very lax with the tags. I'm really glad that I'm not fussed about reading the stuff, because I would have been well and truly spoiled.

      It's no wonder people aren't posting on GW anymore, when they can no longer avoid the spoilers.
      Yepp, it's blank down here.

      Comment


        Evil carter yey!!!

        Comment


          Most definitely evil Carter/Tok'Ra Carter.
          http://www.change.gov

          The reason you should vote Republican in 2010.

          Comment


            Originally posted by minigeek
            OK. I posted this in the "Who Should Lead SG-1" thread, where inevitably there's a battlefront from time to time, however I thought it'd be neat to discus some of the more Sam-centric implications as well. Without the potential for a warzone. Being too lazy to reword again, I thought I'd repost some of the thoughts I'd been having as-is, just here, and see if perhaps we might want to discuss some of the ways in which Sam has been shown to be "In Charge" over the course of Season Nine (despite the apparent ambiguity of command).

            In the spirit of that...

            --- Cross Post ---



            Now, if we strip away the argument of Sam over Mitchell, or vice versa, I actually really do think the writers are leaning in the direction of Carter as a command figure this season, given she's been making all the difficult calls. Coordinating the troops, formulating strategy. While Mitchell learns the ropes. Why they're "sharing" command, I still cannot (logically) fathom, but it certainly does appear that almost despite themselves, the writing team has ended up portraying Carter as the more efficient, more competant officer in an SG field team capacity.

            Having said that, I can't see how they'll continue down this route and still insist that Mitchell is an SG-1 leader. I think they're going to have to choose - and sooner than later.

            To most of us, of course, the choice is rather obvious. But beyond even that boolean indicator, Carter's character is at a point now where I think she couldn't be second to Mitchell.

            And that's not an ego issue, imho, it's simply a matter of truth and experience. I know we've all thought about this a great deal here and discussed it from time to time. But the longer it plays out in canon on the series, the more I see them having to make a call.

            I wonder what will happen with that. Because I wouldn't put it past them to promote Mitchell to full bird before they think of giving Carter that due. And then...

            minigeek
            I like your orginal post and agree with you. But if they are "sharing" command then someone needs to tell Mitchell. It seems that Mitchell has the "heck with what you think, I am in charge" attitude until he needs Sam to get him out of trouble. IMO, Sam has shown she has better judgement and is more concerned about the well fair of her team.
            Odo's last wishes: cremate me, put me in my bucket, then shoot me through the wormhole.


            Rogue

            Comment


              we do need to be better with spoiler tags. and i'm talking about myself too.

              spoiler tags should apply to any aspect of a show beyond the middle part of s8 and the middle part of s1 of atlantis.

              now plot specificity does come into play. admiring sam's outfit from off the grid and making comments about it....well it really doesnt' apply to the plot, so i really see no need for spoiler tags

              but if you're discussing WHY she's wearing it, then yeah, you do need spoiler tags
              Where in the World is George Hammond?


              sigpic

              Comment


                Originally posted by Myrth
                I didn't actually
                Spoiler:
                have a problem with that either. I think Sam leant a command presence to the cave, which was clearly required. Also the scene with Woolsey... hell yeah... you know one thing that I noticed in this ep and have been noticing of late... is Amanda doing something different with Sam's voice, or is that me? I've decided that Sam/Amanda is actually leading this team quietly from the back... whether the big boys like it or not. She didn't have to say a word in the 2 min tease of the ep (wonder if they couldn't afford Sam words after the vfx blew the budget), but still stole the scene!


                What I thought was great with Sam's tone of voice in Scourge was
                Spoiler:
                she had to speak quietly due to the bugs, but did so with more authority than if she had raised her voice


                I wonder if AT deals with this command issue by saying to herself "how would Sam react to not being the clear CO of SG1?" Not by pitching a fit, but by continuing to quietly lead anyway, for the good of the team (& the planet).

                Comment


                  Originally posted by MajorSam
                  Hey everyone! *wave*

                  Well a while back there it seemed like I was maybe going to be getting into the swing of Samanda again!!!! But alas life has come back. Not only do I have the normal mayhem of my life, I am directing the show I wrote, going up first week of March, and have now been accepted to do ANOTHER show for a festival going up exactly a month after! I'm already freaking out... so I probably won't be on much, if at all, until mid-May :| :| I'm going to mis you all *sob* If anything huge happens, someone email me or something! lol, can't fall TOOO far behind...

                  (((((((((((((((((((((Samanda)))))))))))))))))))))))


                  Wish me luck!!!!!!


                  (Ok, I admit I'll MAKE time to come on and share my Creation Con stories <g> But that's it...)
                  Huge congrats on this MajorSam

                  I'll miss your posts - drop by when you can

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by minigeek
                    I know this isn't completely topical, however the lovely and talented Myrth has made me two new kick-arse Sam sigs and I'm so excited, I'm just itchin' to share! I so love her irreverent style!

                    So I now have them on rotation, but there's only three in the bucket. The two that aren't blue and familiar (and say "by Myrth") on them bottom left, are hers!

                    Aren't they cool ?!

                    Thanks so much babeh!!!






                    I want T-SHIRTS!! For both of those!! LOL

                    Hugs,
                    minigeek
                    These remind me of the story AT tells about meeting RDA. If I recall it correctly, they were having them stand next to each other to judge heights and how they looked together. He says something like "Hi Babe, you don't mind if I call you babe?" And she blurts out, "not if I can call you Dick." She said she thought there goes the job, but he laughed & they got along great from then on.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by jckfan55
                      These remind me of the story AT tells about meeting RDA. If I recall it correctly, they were having them stand next to each other to judge heights and how they looked together. He says something like "Hi Babe, you don't mind if I call you babe?" And she blurts out, "not if I can call you Dick." She said she thought there goes the job, but he laughed & they got along great from then on.
                      Oh my god, I LOVE THAT. LOL! That's awesome!

                      Live On Stage in Toronto - August 8,9,10 2008
                      ~all proceeds to benefit charity~

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by jckfan55
                        I wonder if AT deals with this command issue by saying to herself "how would Sam react to not being the clear CO of SG1?" Not by pitching a fit, but by continuing to quietly lead anyway, for the good of the team (& the planet).
                        I think you've hit on something big there, jckfan. That's the kind of choice I think AT would make, frankly, because she seems to try and validate all of her character situations with some sort of actual basis in believability. I wouldn't be surprised a bit if she'd even sat down with Ben and said, "Ok, lets work this out, how are we going to play this?" - to a certain extent. There's only so much they can accomplish between their lines, of course, but that sort of decision making, in and around storylines, sounds very much like the kind of actor I've come to realize Amanda is.

                        Live On Stage in Toronto - August 8,9,10 2008
                        ~all proceeds to benefit charity~

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by minigeek
                          OK. I posted this in the "Who Should Lead SG-1" thread, where inevitably there's a battlefront from time to time, however I thought it'd be neat to discus some of the more Sam-centric implications as well. Without the potential for a warzone. Being too lazy to reword again, I thought I'd repost some of the thoughts I'd been having as-is, just here, and see if perhaps we might want to discuss some of the ways in which Sam has been shown to be "In Charge" over the course of Season Nine (despite the apparent ambiguity of command).

                          In the spirit of that...

                          --- Cross Post ---



                          Now, if we strip away the argument of Sam over Mitchell, or vice versa, I actually really do think the writers are leaning in the direction of Carter as a command figure this season, given she's been making all the difficult calls. Coordinating the troops, formulating strategy. While Mitchell learns the ropes. Why they're "sharing" command, I still cannot (logically) fathom, but it certainly does appear that almost despite themselves, the writing team has ended up portraying Carter as the more efficient, more competant officer in an SG field team capacity.

                          Having said that, I can't see how they'll continue down this route and still insist that Mitchell is an SG-1 leader. I think they're going to have to choose - and sooner than later.

                          To most of us, of course, the choice is rather obvious. But beyond even that boolean indicator, Carter's character is at a point now where I think she couldn't be second to Mitchell.

                          And that's not an ego issue, imho, it's simply a matter of truth and experience. I know we've all thought about this a great deal here and discussed it from time to time. But the longer it plays out in canon on the series, the more I see them having to make a call.

                          I wonder what will happen with that. Because I wouldn't put it past them to promote Mitchell to full bird before they think of giving Carter that due. And then...

                          minigeek
                          Mini I read your post on the said thread and though it was excellent. As well as your response to LS which I thought was a classic.

                          I'm in total agreement.

                          Astrogeologist posted a couple of days ago about being totally amazed about what they have come up with for season 9.

                          I for 1 wasn't amazed and saw the writing on the wall long ago - including the issue of Vala possibly taking over from Sam as the female lead. I'm just hugely disappointed that the Sam is not SG1 leader route has been chosen.

                          Sam was the obvious lead. She's strong and decisive, a quick thinker competent at spitting out a range of very clear commands to numbers of different ranking and specialising command personnel. We have seen it numerous time at the SGC when Hammond was happy to sit back and let Sam take control of the situation.

                          There is no doubt in my mind that she would make the difficult choices she would need to in a position of command (An issue which LS thinks the opposite) I doubt very much if Sam would accept a command position if she felt she couldn't make the hard choices. She's had 8 years of intensive off world experience being second in command to Jack O'Neill. There is not excuse insofar as Carter's character is concerned not to make her the leader of the team

                          The only possible excuse I could think of for this offensive situation is another point which LS came up with. It was the fact that Sam Carter may start to dominate the show if she was made the lead of SG1. This is because she would be the person required to give scientific explanation and also she would be the person in command leading the team, so her role may begin to outweigh that of the other team members.

                          I thought this was an interesting and plausible point, though I still think the writers could have managed this conundrum without too much difficulty.

                          Also if Sam is never to lead SG1 in my opinion the other person who would naturally fit the bill would be Teal'c. He also has got far more experience than Mitchell. The only problem then would be the politics of a Jaffa leading the flagship SGC unit. I like this scenario though and think it would have made excellent watching. There is a great deal of respect between Sam, Teal'c and Daniel.

                          Having said all that the very fact they have a newcomer stepping in taking the lead really just beggars belief. They have got his back story all wrong to my mind and their attempt to introduce him to the team as leader has totally failed in my eyes - primarily because int he first 5 eps the whole storyline focused on Daniel and Vala - a totally unnecessary distraction which has added nothing monumental at all to the season storyline - from the eps I have seen. Since when the writers have failed to give him anything to work with.

                          Reading Ben Browder leading SG1 into season 10 on the cover of a magazine just totally offended me. All the other cast members have worked their socks off for 8 season, but BB somehow gets the "lead" role treatment. It would be laughable if it wasn't so disrespectful to the other actors - all of whom would be equally as capable as BB as leading the show.

                          Even if TPTB wanted to attract BB fans - I'm sure they would have come on board if Ben was made the new member under the command of Sam Carter.

                          I'm afraid the only way I'm reading it is TPTB didn't want a female leading SG1 and potentially being tagged as being the lead actor. I'm hoping I'm wrong, but the niggle is there.

                          In my opinion Amanda is the strongest actor on the show - on the whole a well liked member of SG1, the very thought of not only removing Sam from the command of SG1 (Which was the writers decision), but thinking of limiting her time on the show by having her cross over to Atlantis and bringing in V, just has me shaking my head.

                          There is a motto "If it ain't broke don't fix it"

                          Lets see what happens to the show in season 10. My feeling is that everything that the viewers loved about SG1 will have been removed or diluted and that the show isn't well written enough to capture a whole new audience in the volume required to keep the show running. I'm quite prepared to ditch the thing now. I think if Sam takes a back seat to V in season 10 a lot of other general viewers will stop watching.

                          Well done to mini for a fantastic post on the who should lead thread!!

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Coley
                            Astrogeologist posted a couple of days ago about being totally amazed about what they have come up with for season 9.
                            I remember that, it was fabulous. I think a great many (previous and current) fans of SG-1 as a series have been feeling the way Astro outlined since the inception of season nine. Some of it really does boggle the mind.

                            Originally posted by Coley
                            I for 1 wasn't amazed and saw the writing on the wall long ago - including the issue of Vala possibly taking over from Sam as the female lead. I'm just hugely disappointed that the Sam is not SG1 leader route has been chosen.
                            I noticed the network's interference there, but I wasn't willing to write off the leadership issue because I thought they'd have to make it plausible for it to work. Having seen what they've done with the Mitchell/Leader issue this season so far, however, I no longer believe they do feel they have to make it plausible, so you may well be right. They may just intend to yank the rug out at some point. The folly in that, of course, is that the entire series will go with it. And sadly, they're too corporate to even care about that. It's almost easier for us as individuals to look at it and say: "Danger! Train wreck ahead!" than it is for the network (as a corporate entitity) to see past their corporate blinders. They're looking at statistics that aren't relevant and numbers which don't correlate - and they have no idea. It's classic, it's happened so many times before to good television, and yet it never changes. Go figure.

                            Originally posted by Coley
                            The only possible excuse I could think of for this offensive situation is another point which LS came up with. It was the fact that Sam Carter may start to dominate the show if she was made the lead of SG1. This is because she would be the person required to give scientific explanation and also she would be the person in command leading the team, so her role may begin to outweigh that of the other team members.
                            I see that point, in so far as the writing could be poor enough to allow it to happen. But if there was strong writing, good character development - not just for Sam Carter but for all of the current and new members of the SG universe, they really could make it work. Unfortunately, unless Brad has a significantly different POV than Robert did (does), I'm not sure that will happen, either. I'm hoping, of course, I've always been hoping, but the realist in me has to acknowledge the more likely scenario, as you said so well, Coley.

                            Originally posted by Coley
                            Also if Sam is never to lead SG1 in my opinion the other person who would naturally fit the bill would be Teal'c. He also has got far more experience than Mitchell. The only problem then would be the politics of a Jaffa leading the flagship SGC unit. I like this scenario though and think it would have made excellent watching. There is a great deal of respect between Sam, Teal'c and Daniel.
                            And yet, because he's "The Alien", they'll never let that happen either. In many ways, that's harder than being "The Female". "The Alien" can never take the lead, because "The Alien" represents social stereotyping, and the network falls into line with those sorts of statistical idiocies far too freqently.

                            Originally posted by Coley
                            Having said all that the very fact they have a newcomer stepping in taking the lead really just beggars belief. They have got his back story all wrong to my mind and their attempt to introduce him to the team as leader has totally failed in my eyes - primarily because int he first 5 eps the whole storyline focused on Daniel and Vala - a totally unnecessary distraction which has added nothing monumental at all to the season storyline - from the eps I have seen. Since when the writers have failed to give him anything to work with.
                            That's it, exactly. That's so true. If only they'd written Mitchell differently, he could have been far more believeable. But he came in as an inexperienced, inept, bumbling loud-mouth, hot-shot. With nothing to back that up. No extensive experience, no special training, nothing. He's just a guy who talks loud and looks good in leather - so hey, lets make him the leader! *sigh*

                            Originally posted by Coley
                            Reading Ben Browder leading SG1 into season 10 on the cover of a magazine just totally offended me. All the other cast members have worked their socks off for 8 season, but BB somehow gets the "lead" role treatment. It would be laughable if it wasn't so disrespectful to the other actors - all of whom would be equally as capable as BB as leading the show.
                            I'm sure you weren't the only one who felt that way. With no disrespect intended towards Ben (who had nothing to do with the campaign, and if it wasn't him, they'd have created the same character for someone else), the general "new direction" of season nine simply begs definition all together. New characters, old characters, new enemies, old emenies, no character development, no interpersonal backstory (until blammo, we get some deep, emotional reunion between a father and daughter, or a soldier and his friend - which we can't possibly care about because we have no idea who these characters even are yet. It's ludicrous, really. And sad.

                            And then there's Sam - whom the writing team says they're "finished exploring, as of season eight". What? How is that possible? Stick a fork in her, she's done? No more character development? How can we have a character continue to exist who has nothing further to gain, no further growth to attain? It's simply not possible.

                            Originally posted by Coley
                            I'm afraid the only way I'm reading it is TPTB didn't want a female leading SG1 and potentially being tagged as being the lead actor. I'm hoping I'm wrong, but the niggle is there.
                            No, I'm sure that's true. I'm sure that was a network driven agenda, too. It's classic, and unfortunately, it's not going away any time soon, either.

                            Originally posted by Coley
                            In my opinion Amanda is the strongest actor on the show - on the whole a well liked member of SG1, the very thought of not only removing Sam from the command of SG1 (Which was the writers decision), but thinking of limiting her time on the show by having her cross over to Atlantis and bringing in V, just has me shaking my head. There is a motto "If it ain't broke don't fix it"
                            Amen sister. Amanda is, in my personal opinion, indeed the strongest actor currently on the show. Frankly, she's still carrying the show, if you ask me. At the studio, one of the directors made a comment while some of us were discussing Stargate in general, he looked at a screen of Carter and O'Neill in one frame and said, "You know, I could take or leave the rest of those folks, but those two ... those two are what the show is all about. They make it interesting." - And I know for a fact he wasn't referring to any kind of 'romantic' angle, simply the strength of their characters and the way they interact. I hadn't really gelled that idea in my own head at the time - other than to acknowledge I thought Amanda was the brightest actor there in my humble opinion - but I really think he made a significant and a good point. I think if they lose Amanda, they'll lose the series. As arrogant (on her behalf) as that might sound, I think it's true.

                            Originally posted by Coley
                            Lets see what happens to the show in season 10. My feeling is that everything that the viewers loved about SG1 will have been removed or diluted and that the show isn't well written enough to capture a whole new audience in the volume required to keep the show running. I'm quite prepared to ditch the thing now. I think if Sam takes a back seat to V in season 10 a lot of other general viewers will stop watching.
                            I certainly agree, if it keeps up this way, we may not have a season eleven to look forward too. So I'm holding out hope that Brad brings something magical to the table. Brings back the character conflict, at the very least, and the interpersonal angle enmeshed with Robert's happy-go-lucky space battle sequences.

                            If not... I just don't see the viewership holding out another two years. It isn't strong enough anymore, and all they've got left to save themselves is the strength of their writing team, coupled with their ability to leverage their assets a whole lot better (and by assets, I mean actors like Amanda, who somehow manage to make every scene they're a part of turn into a tour de force).

                            I'm with you, Coley. All the way. (I'd share some jello with ya too, but I'm locked out of your fridge!)

                            minigeek

                            Live On Stage in Toronto - August 8,9,10 2008
                            ~all proceeds to benefit charity~

                            Comment


                              One thing I did want to add, I think Claudia Black is an extremely talented actor as well. I wasn't a Farscape fan while it was on the air - I didn't watch it at all, I actually saw Vala before I ever knew who Aeryn Sun was, however I've seen Claudia in other things and she's good.

                              Having said that, I was a more than a little bit icked-out by what the network and the writing team decided to do to her character in Stargate this season. I was frustrated as well. Since she's coming back quite soon, I'm hoping that the writing team reaches out and grasps their new opportunity to give Vala the depth and dimensionality she deserves. Should that be the case, then between Claudia and Amanda, they might just be able to support a new dynamic that's strong enough to sustain SG-1 as a series for a while longer. Talent such as those two ladies have individually is rarely combined in an effectual manner on television these days. But when it is - watch out.

                              Hope springs eternal!


                              MG

                              Live On Stage in Toronto - August 8,9,10 2008
                              ~all proceeds to benefit charity~

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by ÜberSG-1Fan
                                I respectfully and humbly agree with Strix here.

                                We are a community bound by our love for the fictional character Samantha Carter and our respect and adoration for the very real, gracious and delightful Amanda Tapping.

                                I come HERE. When I've had a crappy set of days where works falling in on me, this is my happy place. This is Samanda in all its glory...with its wide variety of people with their different backgrounds, interests, careers and personalities. This is where I come to be amongst friends and family.

                                So sure there is the occasional this or that. Heck I mentioned Passions airing on SciFi for crying out loud. It is moderately related though if you think about it since it's further indication into the mindset that makes the decisions on the network level. But as long as we don't spend pages talking about the latest contestants on American Idol or wonder if Donald Trump's hair can remain completely still for yet another season, I don't mind a bit of off topic chatter.

                                So again, I respectfully agree with Strix and let's keep it here!
                                Chiming in to agree here. Yes, occasionally the thread goes off topic, but it doesn't take that much to nudge it back on. Personally, I'd rather skim through the stuff I'm not that interested in, than have to switch between two different threads. That actually seems like a lot more trouble to me.

                                Then of course we would have to get into what's OT and what's not OT and people being afraid to comment because it might be OT, and to me that stifles more conversation than a bit of OT.

                                *shrugs*
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