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**Skydiver** · 29 January 2006, 05:04 PM

another reason they had capes, a practical one...back in teh dark ages, when comics were hand drawn, well if an artist was having trouble with an arm or leg, they'd just have the cape drape over it and cover up the 'bad' parts

and really, my fav hero didn't have a cape. Rogue of the X-Men. now she and sam could kick bootie together

**minigeek** · 29 January 2006, 05:07 PM

That's really interesting. I've noticed (via reading fanfiction lately) that quite a few authors who write SG-1 are also X-Men comic fans. More than any other correlation, that one sticks out. Wonder why that is. It's kinda neat.

**SunKrux** · 29 January 2006, 05:07 PM

Originally posted by Skydiver

another reason they had capes, a practical one...back in teh dark ages, when comics were hand drawn, well if an artist was having trouble with an arm or leg, they'd just have the cape drape over it and cover up the 'bad' parts

and really, my fav hero didn't have a cape. Rogue of the X-Men. now she and sam could kick bootie together

True enough.

Dang straight, ROGUE ROCKS!!!

She's my fav X-Men too. Don't get me started on how she was treated in the movies.

**minigeek** · 29 January 2006, 05:17 PM

Originally posted by SunKrux

I think this new family will work out, guess I'm just a little more patient that I thought I was.

Between the agony of FS and TLW (another show I love) being cancelled and eventually getting a wrap up of sorts for FS, I've learned to be more patient with shows I love. It's coming in handy for me right now with SG1.

Well, with due respect, most of the fans who adore the Mitchell and Vala characters are Farscape fans. It's much easier to love a new character when they're an old friend. Mitchell and Vala are still Ben and Claudia, and there's no question that the familiarity of their (well developed characters) on Farscape seeps into any Scaper's current view of their new role(s) on SG-1.

If Amanda moved on to a new series, many of us would watch that new series and adore her character there because it would really be no different than watching an old friend take the role (a personal friend?). Fans really care about their favorite characters and celebrities, as is evidenced by the sheer number of Farscape fans who came to watch SG-1 (many for the first time) due to Ben and Claudia's re-appareance therein. That doesn't mean their characters are well developed or the stories are well written, it just means that we (as fans) already adore them, therefore it's difficult not to adore them in their new role just as well.

Originally posted by SunKrux

Granted, I've not watched every single eps or watched as much as most of you have, but I still enjoy the show and am willing to give TPTB the chance to work things out.

But you probably have watched every episode of Farscape (perhaps more than once?). You've made my point for me. Due respect once more, you'd love anything Ben and Claudia did, because you care for them as artists in addition to caring for the characters they played on Farscape. In fact, they are accomplished artists.

Which isn't to say that Cameron Mitchell is a character that's been well established in the SG-1 universe thus far. He's not terrible, but neither is he great, and the reason for that is not that there hasn't been any time to write for him yet, it's that the writing which has been done for his character has been mediochre at best.

Adoring John Crighton fans are bound to love Cameron Mitchell, I'd wager any adoring Sam Carter fan would be bound to love whomever Amanda went on to play next as well. That is in no way a negative stab at said fans, I'm just trying to illustrate the point (the fact?) that there is a correlation there, whether we choose to highlight it or not.

mini

**Skydiver** · 29 January 2006, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by minigeek

That's really interesting. I've noticed (via reading fanfiction lately) that quite a few authors who write SG-1 are also X-Men comic fans. More than any other correlation, that one sticks out. Wonder why that is. It's kinda neat.

yeah it is.

i was sorting through my jun-- ahem stuff to take to an upcoming con to sell and most of it is star trek, b5 and, x-men

**Skydiver** · 29 January 2006, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by SunKrux

True enough.

Dang straight, ROGUE ROCKS!!!

She's my fav X-Men too. Don't get me started on how she was treated in the movies.

i dunno. i kinda like the rogue/wolverine angle in the first movie. I do wish they hadn't have turned her into jubilee though

the one thing that 'saves' it is that anna paquin is a dang good actress and, finally, the x-men movies are ones that do justice to the comics, just like spiderman

one thing i've noticed aobut those though. i think one reason they're so good is because they're about teh characters, not the sfx. we get to know them, feel for them, feel with them...as opposed to Hulk (the most recent one) that was nothing more than fx...and it showed in how badly the movie did

**minigeek** · 29 January 2006, 05:27 PM

Originally posted by Skydiver

the one thing that 'saves' it is that anna paquin is a dang good actress and, finally, the x-men movies are ones that do justice to the comics, just like spiderman

I agree, I never followed the X-Men comics, but I've really enjoyed the movies. Of course, we got to work fallover post on a few small scenes for the last one, so there was a huge bonus there. But beyond that, I was pleasantly surprised at the storytelling, and the acting in all of them.

**Myrth** · 29 January 2006, 05:40 PM

Brilliant post Mini and very true.

Having seen Stronghold now I agree with many comments on

Spoiler:

Interestingly I used to say the exact same thing in reverse regarding the depth of BSG / SG-1 mini... pre s9 anyway... funny how things go.

S1 BSG compared to s7/8 SG to me was pretty but lacked substance. But I agree with the season 1 analogy for SG-1 now. I fully expect 10 to be a vast improvement for the new era.

Originally posted by minigeek

I won't pretend I don't like darkness. I do, especially in my sci-fi. But I also like a balance, which was what drew me to SG-1 to begin with. SG-1 has gotten pretty edgy at times, bordering on dark, but it pulls back and allows some good old fashioned heroic-justice in as well, which is something I quite appreciate (when it's not done in a cliche manner).

Someone recently mentioned that Jack was intentionally not written as a superhero (per RDA's wishes), and I think that element has always played true with Carter, Teal'c and Daniel as well - which makes the hero elements of the series far more pallatable for me.

I don't want SG-1 to be BSG (I don't even watch Firefly, so that's out too *g*), but I do want SG-1 to tell stories that matter, and to give the characters a chance to work through real issues, within the scope of their science-fiction action-hero universe.

What makes BSG a better series than SG-1 right now is not its darkness. It's its depth. The stories being told are stories that resonate, and they're not being told half-@$$ed. They're arc-ed out, they're enmeshed with the character's lives, plotted through with intelligent introspection and believable character-growth in a very ensemble cast setting.

SG-1 used to be like that, back when the Goa'uld arc was begininng to bear fruit. But ever since they "moved on" to tell their so-called new series/story, it's been gone. Like Carter said in RE: "I got nothin'... yet".

A big part of the reason it's falling so flat right now has to do with the fact that they're mixing old, established characters with brand new unintroduced ones, yet they're foisting character-trauma on the new guys in a way that does NOT resonate with the audience yet because ..... we don't KNOW these new guys yet.

How are we supposed to give a damn that Mitchell's friend is dying if we don't even know for sure whether we give a damn whether Mitchell himself dies (yet), or not. Likewise Landry's little "sad moment" with Lam during the Prior Plague was impossible to empathize with.

They need to work on the new characters themselves; make us care about *them* before there's any possibility we can care about their friends/family/emotional angst. Yet in order to (somehow) "force" us to care, they're giving tonnes of screen time to these new guys "going through stuff", while we're *told* that it matters, only we don't feel it. Because how could we? Carter cares about Mitchell so we're supposed to, too? It doesn't work that way. We may be able to empathize with Carter while she empathizes with Mitchell, but that doesn't mean we care even a whit more what happens to Mitchell at the end of that empathy. We care what happens to CARTER. What SHE feels vis-a-vis what he feels. Because we know her and we've "grown up" with her the proper way. The way we aren't being given a chance to grow with Mitchell himself.

So there's the difference between today's SG-1 and today's BSG. Nothing to do with the tone of the series, everything to do with the scope of the storytelling and the depth of the characters.

mini

**Myrth** · 29 January 2006, 05:44 PM

Because there's an Earth custom where women do battle in a ring of jello?

Mmmm blue jello....

Originally posted by minigeek

Well, she could try.

But wy MY arms, dammit? I didn't post the frickin' thing. How come it's always ME that ends up in the Jello-pit whenever there's a cat-fight?? Sheesh.

mini

**majorsal** · 29 January 2006, 06:12 PM

Originally posted by minigeek

I was watching BSG yesterday and thinking, gosh I wish there was a (dark, BSG style version of) "Sam Carter" on this show; it'd be just perfect then.

mini

i've thought about a dark version of sam too.

but i think what i'd like more than dark (and what are we really meaning by dark anyways?) is a more complex person. even though we tackled sam's private life (her shipping with pete and jack), we *still* don't really know enough about her.

so i'd really like to see a dark side to sam, but i don't know what i'd want that to be...

sally

**majorsal** · 29 January 2006, 06:24 PM

Originally posted by ChopinGal

Actually, I love the newest version of Six, as the radical peacenik activist in her green khaki uniform ... she actually reminded me of a dark Sam Carter!

Of course, the whole RepliCarter arc could have been taken forward ... with Sam and her evil twin meeting once again ... would the RepliCarter be redeemable or still able to wreak destruction?

Spoiler:

If I had to choose between slash-and-run evil Carter and whackamole Mitchell, my vote goes to RepliCarter!

Yes, I know this is not a balanced analogy, 'cause Cam is a good guy. I'm talking about whom I'd like to get more screentime! I feel that AT just began to develop this fascinating alter ego and would continue to play it so well. IMHO. Do I know? I'm outside the respected demographic, carrying my AARP card and all ... as to screentime, form over content seems to be the more preferred prescription these days.

i'd LOVE to see replicarter return!!

spoilers for s8's new order, gemini, and reckoning(s)

Spoiler:

sally

**Skydiver** · 29 January 2006, 06:36 PM

replicarter spoilers

Spoiler:

**majorsal** · 29 January 2006, 06:38 PM

Originally posted by Tracy Jane

Which is exactly why, in Season 8, with Sam as team leader, it worked much better as a team show. It was about cooperation and teamwork as opposed to barking orders.

Well, that and the fact that having no lead forced the writers to get off their backsides and think a little bit.

it was a great *team* in season 8!

what little we were actually able to see that is

some daniel fans don't want sam to lead (they don't want her to get anything or *anyone*), but i think even they would have liked/accepted sam leading if their fave character was given some presense.

to me, adding mitchell is only taking away from the 'already there and please continue to write for them' characters (that would be sam, daniel, and teal'c). just imagine those first few vala eps with sam being there instead of mitchell. first off, i don't think it would have went the way it did (daniel/vala hour). but also imagine never having mitchell there, where the focus would have been on the three leads 'and' vala. and then vala leaves, and we've still got our three leads. all the stories we've seen so far, only with our THREE LEADS leading the way.

i'm still dreading vala returning because i think ALL the characters are going to take a backseat to her. i don't think we're going to get another daniel/vala dominance, but i'm afraid of how they're going to write our ppl to 'fit' into the vala-is-THE-show series.

sally

**ChopinGal** · 29 January 2006, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by SunKrux

Food for thought for those down on Mitchell and eventually Vala. The way I'm seeing SG1 at the moment is that bringing in the new characters is like the first season of a new show...they have to find their footing and for most shows, the first season is like that. Even with the regulars, they're going to be off for a bit (possibly most of the season if not all of it) until TPTB get their ducks in a row that works for them. I see the newbies and the regulars as kind of a blended family. This is the "first year of marriage" and they are all gonna be out of whack, but does that mean they should give up on the marriage? IMHO, no. It could take years for this blended family to get the kinks worked out, if they get them all worked out.

Granted, I've not watched every single eps or watched as much as most of you have, but I still enjoy the show and am willing to give TPTB the chance to work things out. No I don't know any of the history of how TPTB have done the fans wrong, but there's history like that with ANY show. I simply remind myself that the show is NOT my baby but that it is TPTB's baby and they will know what's best for it, even if I don't agree. Any show whether in it's first season or 8th season is going to go through periods of changes. Some fans are not going to like the changes and leave the show altogether, some fans are not going to like the changes and still stick with the show (trust me, there were changes to FS that I didn't like, but I stuck with it and am glad I did). There are also fans who will like the changes.

I think this new family will work out, guess I'm just a little more patient that I thought I was.

Between the agony of FS and TLW (another show I love) being cancelled and eventually getting a wrap up of sorts for FS, I've learned to be more patient with shows I love. It's coming in handy for me right now with SG1.

LOL, you've made some valid points; however, as mini has reminded, your experience of S9 is coming from a former context with the new characters who are not really new to you as a devoted fan. Many of us are open to the new characters but we are also looking for a certain continuity of arc/storylines with our veterans as the foundation that grounds all the newbies. This is not a "new show", just a new season. I don't mind a blended marriage, but, gosh darn, I'm still waiting for the honeymoon to begin! I would like a better transition period between old and new! And I'd like to keep the baby rather than throwing the baby out with the bathwater!

So, yes, here we all are ... sitting at the same nuptials, the marriage of old (eight seasons) to the new (S9). Heck, we've all been invited to the wedding. And, generally speaking, we're very well-behaved guests - taking our seats, listening to the Prior preach at the pulpit, admiring the bride and groom. Some of us are sitting on the bride's side of the aisle; others on the groom's. Maybe the courtship was a bit rushed, eh?! We're certainly hoping to get acquainted at the reception and hear TPTB deliver glowing toasts and projections of many years of bliss. But for some of us, watching the couple on the dance floor, they seem oddly out of step at times. We sigh and comfort ourselves as best we can. And then there is that issue of just whose baby it is anyhow ... maybe this was an arranged marriage after all.

**majorsal** · 29 January 2006, 06:49 PM

Originally posted by Miz_Gatez

What I can't shake is how, well, JACK-like Mitchell is. It's like they swapped brains. But really, whenever Jack says some smartass thing it's funny, but when Mitchell tries it out it just sounds.....sounds....*cue silence with cricket chirping*. Wrong!

I also thought it was madly insane how easy it was for the guy to become the leader of the flagship team right away. I mean, really, shouldn't the guy have to go through training and all that before he's shoved on the front line?

I agree, jckfan, they should've made him 2IC to Carter. Let him watch the masters at work

Spoiler:

sally

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