Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[majorsal]

But to censor those for the sake of censoring them - because someone who is ignorant of what the reality would emotionally entail does not want to "hurt" any feelings, so decides instead not even to find out what that might mean (to research it and to discover what would be a better alternative) - well, we only end up with the standard status-quo, when that happens. The cliche "politically correct" response which everyone (who has no clue what the hurt means) THINKS is the right thing to say/do about it.

years ago, i asked joe mallozzi that if 'abyss' had been about sam instead of jack, would the torture scenes have been played the same. he said no, and indicated to me that that was a good thing. i actually felt the opposite, since he was saying to me that the only kind of torture writers feel is acceptable is rape (he 'didn't' say that to me). and notice that that *is* the only kind of violence that writers have no probs showing against women.

i want equal opportunity whumpage, but i think society is afraid of going too far *with women*. somehow rape has a different connitation to it than other kinds of violence (and it *shouldn't*).

i also agree with skydiver that it's prob better that this writing staff doesn't even try to go with a rape storyline, because they're too busy ignoring the other horrific things that have been done against all the characters for years.



sally

[majorsal]

That's sort of what I tried to address in Looking Up. I envisioned them abandoning the SGC, but not each other. At least, not right away.

It is a fascinating question, and I could imagine many different scenarios.

which is why spoilers for avalon

Spoiler:

sg1 breaking up and going their own ways was very hard to take. it was glossed over *only* so we could accept this new show/team. it felt to me like an injustice to the once great friends-for-ever team.

sally

[majorsal]

I don't think there is a right or wrong way to want the stories to be told, only a personal preference for whatever we each feel we'd prefer to see. Hence it's so difficult to tell a story that pleases everyone, all of the time. Or one that does not upset some people more than others, when a difficult subjectmatter is tackled.

i'm going to admit i'm in love with rda/jack (well, as much as one can be in love with someone they've never met ). so what happened to jack in abyss... it made me cry. rda is VERY convincing when it comes to playing pain. i watched that ep once and *only* once, because i can't stand seeing jack/rda go through that. and to make it even worse, nothing happened from this ep for at least some character growth.

there's some kinds of violence i can take, but tortures scenes are hard for me. (i'm *still* scared by this HORRIBLE scene i saw years ago from a movie called 'the evil that men do'. i left the room without even making it through the entire scene... i almost cried)



sally

[majorsal]

That's it, Ooober. Nail, meet head. And for that reason, I think we're safely going to remain in the campy realm of under-developed character angst within SG-1 for the long-term future. Ergo... there'll certainly be no worries about any angst-overload for our favorite characters any time soon. Status-quo, here we go. And where SG-1 is concerned as a series, I'm just fine with that too.

i remember one of the things that had crossed my mind about sam returning to the show *but* not getting her command back... i thought it would be interesting if she'd permanently injured her leg/knee. it could have given her a limp and kept her off the team (or mainly leading it). i kept seeing scenes in my head of how sam would handle this. she wouldn't be a cripple (still be able to walk and such), but she wouldn't be able to be the exact great athlete/soldier that she was before. LOTS of potential for GREAT scenes about this.

but i knew the show wouldn't do something like this, because that would mean the character would be *permanently* changed/different. tv shows don't do 'changed'. what a shame, at least to me.

would any of you liked to have seen sam with a permanent limp?



sally

[majorsal]

Let me put it another way, wouldn't you object to me stating that if Stargate had a staff of all female writers, it would turn into a sappy soap opera without any action or adventure because the characters were too busy talking to each other working out their personal problems to actually go through the gate? I know I would. It's a gross generalization to say that women TEND to be unable to write action and adventure stories, and are much better at writing interpersonal relationships. It does women a disservice to play into such stereotypes, just as Oooober's statement does a disservice to men.

Maybe I'm not making much sense. Maybe Ooober is right, and I just object to it because the moon is made of blue cheese, and I'm in a colby mood at the moment.

i understand exactly what you're saying.

as an s/j shipper, i've been accused that ALL that i care about with sam is if she gets together with jack. you guys have seen some of my storyline ideas; sam hooking up with jack is NOT all i groove on with sam. sam/jack is but ONE aspect of her character (just like me liking watermelon doesn't mean that that's the only fruit i like or want ever).

generalizations smother.



sally

[Central Gal]

I love the character Sam because she's able to play a strong, powerful character and doesn't come across as a female dog or trying to be masculine. She's an absolutely wonderful character who mixes bravery with intelligence, loyalty and kindness.

And I think it totally stinks that they killed off her dad!

[majorsal]

*Marking it on calendar now...*

Just watched Stronghold. I enjoyed it a lot.

Spoiler:

It was great to see Sam addressing all the troops in front of the Gate with the plan. Her sharing her experience with Cam about telling Pete and her father about the Gate I thought fit into the story too.

Spoiler:

i LOVED sam being in charge!!

and i'm *very* glad the dialog between sam and mitchell (as shown in spoilers for this ep months ago) was changed. neither one came off as treasonists!!

sally

[majorsal]

Yeah, I read it too last night. Went to bed quite late because of it, actually:-D. Though I thought it unbelievable that she didn't remember it being him sooner, especially a few years before meeting him. I had read another one of that kind on Helio2. It was by Eliza also, Daniel and a Dream. Now, WHEN will we get a story of Sam going back in time and being the mature woman who introduces Jack to an active sex life ?????

there 'was' a story like this, i just can't remember the title or author. but it made sense. and was well done.



sally

[majorsal]

Oh, I read one, it was very well written, I think it was by aeryn
There you go http://www.sg1-heliopolis.com/helio2...8/thefirst.php

that's it!

(goes to read fic again)




sally

[kmiller1610]

Spandex, who on Sci-Fi would have the nerve to wear Spandex? S

Buck Rogers' gals all wore spandex

[majorsal]

i'm probably in a minority, but i enjoyed stronghold too.

Spoiler:

and the whole 'i told my dad' spoiler was so blown out of proportion. she had permission both times she told folks. no treason there

it wasn't just blown out of proportion, it was *different*.

Spoiler:

originally, it was that sam said to mitchell that she 'might' have told her father and pete the truth about the stargate program, whether she got permission to or not. that was *totally* changed, and for the better.

either the spoilers were wrong to begin with, or the dialog was changed because fans saw the they could come off as 'treasonists'. whichever the reason, i'm *very* glad it went the way we heard tonigh!

sally

[kmiller1610]

Great double dose of Sam last night.

I thought the Atlantis ep was going to crash and burn, but when Sam appeared, she just lit the thing up and made it work. The SG-1 ep was their best of the year.

Amanda looks like she's back from the reality of what childbirth can do to you. She looked just fine. And I do mean fine.

[ann_sgcfan]

i'm going to admit i'm in love with rda/jack (well, as much as one can be in love with someone they've never met ). so what happened to jack in abyss... it made me cry. rda is VERY convincing when it comes to playing pain. i watched that ep once and *only* once, because i can't stand seeing jack/rda go through that. and to make it even worse, nothing happened from this ep for at least some character growth.



sally

Who's not in love with RDA! I never met him either, but I love his unruly gray hair (he looks very distinguished ) and that smirk (sigh). I thought RDA did a really great job in Abyss as well. You could tell when Jack had reached his breaking point. I wanted to see Jack interact a little more with Sam and the rest of his team after he got back.

As far as the torture scene for Sam goes I think Jolinar is as close to torture as Sam is going to get. Thought that was pretty powerfull. I think AT played that really well! After Jolinar died, Sam is confused, hurt, angry, and depressed. They didn’t know anything about the Tok'ra. Imagine waking up with another voice in your head and knowing it's a goa'uld (or what you perceive to be a goa'uld). I would panic. Jolinar had one mission and that was to go back through the gate. Imagine seeing a gun being pointed at your friends demanding to be let through the gate , watching through your own eyes, and being powerless to stop it. Then you slowly start to blend with this host as she explains about the tok'ra and that you are both on the same side. Is it a trick or is the thing inside you telling you the truth? You finally believe the tok'ra just to have her die to save your life. Now you have all these memories and emotions of a life you never lived and people you don't know. You feel like a part of you has died, and no one really understand what you are going through.

[the dancer of spaz]

Could not agree more on the Mitchell

Spoiler:

rambo-like immature snit and his ignoring orders, Carter was clearly in charge and he ignored her

- please what do you think the reaction would be if Carter did THAT to Mitchell but of course all will be forgiven with Mitchell - what a bad, bad leader and IMO, we saw a bad soldier in tonight's episode.

Spoiler:

If you are that upset stay home - excuse yourself from the mission - don't go out there and jeopardize it, Teal'c and the rest of the team with your hot-headed jerkiness.

I really cannot fathom what is going through the minds of TPTB with some of the crap they are throwing our way with Mitchell's judgment (or lack thereof) and then trying to make us believe he should be anywhere near co-leader of the team. After tonight I fear for the team when he is around.

Spoiler:

They are out there trying to save Teal'c and end up also having to waste time and effort saving Mitchell

- bad form, very,very bad form. But that seems to be happeneing in many episodes this season.

I think I finally figured out what Mitchell brings to the team, he is the one they have to always rescue, regardless of what the real purpose of their mission may be they always seem to get sidetracked helping Mitchell get out of the trouble he seems to get into. I think the Jaffa

Spoiler:

at the rings should have gone ahead and shot him - he is obviously a danger to the team after this nightmare

.)

Teal'c was good, and I like Ba'al.

Spoiler:

Sam leading the whole shootin' match and addressing the entire squad was great stuff

- she is clearly the leader of this team and the SGC knows it. Sam and Daniel and some of their moments were good and Bra'tac was great - that guy is wonderful. He should be on the team - not Mitchell. Overall though it was boring since I have nothing invested in Mitchell I care even less than nothing about

Spoiler:

his dying friend

so that whole part of the ep was a fast-forward button for me. I did not realize the point about leaving the equipment unsecured until I read it here, and elsewhere, since I skipped those parts but that is just more reason to question Mitchell's judgment and abilitiy to co-lead this team - at this point I question him even being on the team when he jeopardizes them, and their missions, this way. What a joke. Rant over.

Yeah. I agree chocdoc and bink. I'm trying to look at it from a fresh perspective, but I just can't.

Spoiler:

the glaring issues in this ep are too big to ignore, unfortunately.

And I really have liked Mitchell. I just liked him a bit more before this ep. I'd be willing to disregard this one for future goodness, however.

[ShimmeringStar]

years ago, i asked joe mallozzi that if 'abyss' had been about sam instead of jack, would the torture scenes have been played the same. he said no, and indicated to me that that was a good thing. i actually felt the opposite, since he was saying to me that the only kind of torture writers feel is acceptable is rape (he 'didn't' say that to me). and notice that that *is* the only kind of violence that writers have no probs showing against women.

i want equal opportunity whumpage, but i think society is afraid of going too far *with women*. somehow rape has a different connitation to it than other kinds of violence (and it *shouldn't*).

i also agree with skydiver that it's prob better that this writing staff doesn't even try to go with a rape storyline, because they're too busy ignoring the other horrific things that have been done against all the characters for years.



sally

JM probably knew they wouldn't be able to do that kind of arc very well. Just wondering, but how long ago was that? Guess I'm wondering if that was back when he was a relatively fresher and a newer writer to the show and had realized the strengths/weaknesses of his fellow writers. (*grins* And if he was less cryptic with his answers back then. )

I guess I'd be afraid they'd use it as the excuse for everything... 'Carter can't deal with this because she was violated...' 'Carter can't lead anymore because she's lost her edge because of the rape..." "Carter can't _____ because she was raped..." IMOHO it probably would have become the #1 catchall excuse for the writers (and some fan segments) to explain away anything Sam did. And possibly to have written her as a less strong character.

I know we can debate the changes to the character, especially over the past couple seasons, but think about it... how differently they'd have written the character from there on out with a graphic (ok, as graphic as a PG13 show would allow) rape in her immediate past. Especially if they decided to not ignore it (like they did with other life-changing events) to use that as the defining characteristic of her personality. I'd just be too afraid she wouldn't have been the same Sam we've all come to know and love.