Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[minigeek]

ok, let's pretend you're sam. if you could go back any time during the show, seasons 1-8 (since a lot of folks haven't seen s9)....and you would be able to change any ONE thing, what would you change and why?

Oh, and I forgot to add...... if I were Sam, I'd JUST SAY NO to the little yellow square from Thor.

[Skydiver]

i'm sorry you had such a sour experience MG. but you know, don't let a couple of narrow minded people scare you off.

i'm sure there were plenty that appreciated your sketch for what it was, a real and true piece of art.

for some, whose whole existence is sucking up to 'friends' or currying favor, nothing anyone does will ever be enough. their sole focus is thier motions they can put forth, not real and genuine feelings.

even though this is a sam thread, the day that we ban talk of another character or ban artwork of another character is the day i close this thread.

don't let a few narrow minded folks scare you off. post what you want when y ou want and let your true feelings be reason enough. if they can't appreciate your skill, then that's their loss

[minigeek]

i'm sorry you had such a sour experience MG. but you know, don't let a couple of narrow minded people scare you off.

i'm sure there were plenty that appreciated your sketch for what it was, a real and true piece of art.

for some, whose whole existence is sucking up to 'friends' or currying favor, nothing anyone does will ever be enough. their sole focus is thier motions they can put forth, not real and genuine feelings.

even though this is a sam thread, the day that we ban talk of another character or ban artwork of another character is the day i close this thread.

don't let a few narrow minded folks scare you off. post what you want when y ou want and let your true feelings be reason enough. if they can't appreciate your skill, then that's their loss

That's very sweet of you sky. But very honestly, this isn't even about being appreciated. Lord knows it's not. It's about the constant (almost evil) negativity that I've felt from that end of the spectrum. To the point that every bit of minutia is spat upon if it even remotely relates to an individual or idea which is positive to Amanda and/or Sam (who's a TV character for crying out loud!). That attitude has had me alternating between shocked and frankly disgusted since I first started reading it. I imagine that's what it what it must be like in a highschool schoolyard between rival "factions" (thankfully I never experienced that kind of highschool myself, growing up). I guess this is the "tawdry underbelly" of fandom. And obviously it's not everybody who's like that, it's a select few - but holy moses are they loud and prolific. Call me niave, but it does amaze me the depths to which it goes.

Anyway, I'll shut up about it now. Done is done, as they say.

[esoap524]

Hey Kat - nice post



I get the impression from a couple of interviews with CB - which I have skimmed - that she is not so impressed with the Vala character - to the extent that she could be stomached long term. What was also notable to me in the latest interview I read she made no reference to the cast she worked with, only made reference to the characters - she praised the costume designer and no mention of Rob Coop at all. I don't think she expected to make a return after her first 5 stints.

Just a very minor point to your well argued points. CB is having fun with the Vala character, according to her interviews but does agree she's better in small doses. She's also repeatedly praised the cast, particularly MS with whom she's worked the most, but also had many nice things to say about Amanda Tapping; AT also was complimentary of CB and indicated she hoped they kept her on because she was very supportive when AT returned to the set and also, it was great having another "girl" around.

The main reason I point this is out is just to avoid any rumors that the new cast and the old cast don't mix. And certainly, at least from what I've read, these two actresses like each other and would like to work together.

I hope we get to see a lot of Vala and Carter TOGETHER because I think the differences between the actresses and the characters are actually complimentary.

And as much as I love Ben Browder from his FS days, I can see why people are upset that Carter doesn't get command. What, because she's a girl? Let's face it, in a real work/life situation, that's exactly what people would say.

[Skydiver]

yeah, it is rather sad. i'm not a fan of daniel, never have been. but i don't feel the need to bash the stuffins out of him at every opportunity and in every place. same with vala.

sure i vent,but i do so in ajust a few places and feel no need to spam as many places as possible to validate that i'm 'right'

i'm not saying that one opinion is better than anohter because they're not. but i am saying that such a narrow minded view of anything just isn't good for you. it's not healthy and is frankly scary.

[esoap524]

Hey Kat - nice post



I get the impression from a couple of interviews with CB - which I have skimmed - that she is not so impressed with the Vala character - to the extent that she could be stomached long term. What was also notable to me in the latest interview I read she made no reference to the cast she worked with, only made reference to the characters - she praised the costume designer and no mention of Rob Coop at all. I don't think she expected to make a return after her first 5 stints.

Just a very minor point to your well argued points. CB is having fun with the Vala character, according to her interviews but does agree she's better in small doses. She's also repeatedly praised the cast, particularly MS with whom she's worked the most, but also had many nice things to say about Amanda Tapping; AT also was complimentary of CB and indicated she hoped they kept her on because she was very supportive when AT returned to the set and also, it was great having another "girl" around.

The main reason I point this is out is just to avoid any rumors that the new cast and the old cast don't mix. And certainly, at least from what I've read, these two actresses like each other and would like to work together.

I hope we get to see a lot of Vala and Carter TOGETHER because I think the differences between the actresses and the characters are actually complimentary.

And as much as I love Ben Browder from his FS days, I can see why people are upset that Carter doesn't get command. What, because she's a girl? Let's face it, in a real work/life situation, that's exactly what people would say.

NOTE TO MINIGEEK: As a die hard CB fan, I'm really sorry to hear that some bozos were rude to you. We're not all crazy (okay, well, some kinds of crazy but not all mean crazy ). I think a lot of people get carried away when it's really not necessary. As you point out, it IS stll a TV show.

I'm impressed that even though a significant number of people hate Vala, or dislike her greatly, no one has actually slammed the actress who portrays her.

[Skydiver]

And as much as I love Ben Browder from his FS days, I can see why people are upset that Carter doesn't get command. What, because she's a girl? Let's face it, in a real work/life situation, that's exactly what people would say.

and, no matter how much they spin it, i do think the reason ben was brought in to be the lead was that fact. AT is a woman and scifi shows can't have female leads. the leader MUST be a male. this simple thing was complicated, or maybe proved, but AT having her child. it gave SMS the opportunity and excuse they needed to bring in a new male lead and being able to cite AT's maternity leave instead of the real reason...the idea that all shows must have a male lead.

Folks say that MS and CJ never got the chance to lead, well neither did AT. for most of s8, instead of giving her the opportunity to lead the team, they took another route and wrote stories that didn't have sam in a leadership role

was this just coincidence? or was it because the writers couldn't handle writing Sam the leader?

[minigeek]

and, no matter how much they spin it, i do think the reason ben was brought in to be the lead was that fact. AT is a woman and scifi shows can't have female leads. the leader MUST be a male. this simple thing was complicated, or maybe proved, but AT having her child. it gave SMS the opportunity and excuse they needed to bring in a new male lead and being able to cite AT's maternity leave instead of the real reason...the idea that all shows must have a male lead.

Folks say that MS and CJ never got the chance to lead, well neither did AT. for most of s8, instead of giving her the opportunity to lead the team, they took another route and wrote stories that didn't have sam in a leadership role

was this just coincidence? or was it because the writers couldn't handle writing Sam the leader?

It really makes you wonder. You know, a while back there was this widely publicized poll (I think mid 1990's) where they tried to determine whether a male action-hero star would really draw more people to the box office than a female one, and after the poll, they came away with numbers that suggested, yes, even among FEMALES, it seemed that a male action-hero would be more of a draw. Can you imagine that? We've even got ourSELVES snowed societally. Of course we're breaking those old stereotypes slowly but surely, but it's really a lot like us looking into a society that (for example) dictates its women have no property and cannot participate in government. We gasp at that, but even the women in that society would probably believe in that structure due to years of teaching and societal molds. Now, of course, we have movies like Tomb Raider, etc, that are slowly changing our views of the female action-hero. But I think, to a large extent, we still live in (what my good pal Anni would call) a "troglodyte society" when it comes to certain stereotypes. Amazing as it sounds to those of us who aren't among the "mass pov". I'm just glad it IS moving forward and changing, slowly though it may be.

[esoap524]

was this just coincidence? or was it because the writers couldn't handle writing Sam the leader?

From my very faint knowledge of SG1 --new to the show because of Browder and Black (Black being one of my favorite actresses ever)--it seems to me that SG1 isn't exactly masterful when it comes to creating and sustaining female characters. I have a vast reservoir of useless Farscape knowledge. Those writers knew how to write women, with all their flaws, passions, intelligence, strength, humor and beauty. I kinda miss that in a show.

I think you're right, though, about AT's pregnancy being a factor, just like in any other job situation. You're up for the promotion alongside a guy but you're pregnant and he, of course, is not. Who are they going to give it to? But, on the flipside, it's possible less screen time works for AT given that she did just have a child.

It's interesting that the pitfalls of sexism in RL and the choices real women make every day are coming to play here on SG1. Or at least are coming to play in our theorizing.

Again, back to Farscape but to me, one of the things that set it apart was the fact that there were an equal number of women to men and that those women weren't just there to say "yes, sir, no sir".

[Lys]

It really makes you wonder. You know, a while back there was this widely publicized poll (I think mid 1990's) where they tried to determine whether a male action-hero star would really draw more people to the box office than a female one, and after the poll, they came away with numbers that suggested, yes, even among FEMALES, it seemed that a male action-hero would be more of a draw. Can you imagine that? We've even got ourSELVES snowed societally. Of course we're breaking those old stereotypes slowly but surely, but it's really a lot like us looking into a society that (for example) dictates its women have no property and cannot participate in government. We gasp at that, but even the women in that society would probably believe in that structure due to years of teaching and societal molds. Now, of course, we have movies like Tomb Raider, etc, that are slowly changing our views of the female action-hero. But I think, to a large extent, we still live in (what my good pal Anni would call) a "troglodyte society" when it comes to certain stereotypes. Amazing as it sounds to those of us who aren't among the "mass pov". I'm just glad it IS moving forward and changing, slowly though it may be.

I don't know anything about this poll, mini (wrong country I guess ) but I wanted to comment on your example of female action-hero, Lara Croft. I've never seen the movie, so my comment is based only on the video game. When I see Lara Croft what comes first to my mind ? Over sexualized woman. Look at how she's dressed. That's the same over sexualized look some of you dispise in Vala. Now, take another action-hero, a male one, let's say Indiana Jones. What do I think first when I see him ? He's cool.
I think women will vote for more female action-hero when the archetype female action-hero will be seen as cool before as be seen sexy. We need Indiana Jones types of women in movies to make things change. I know that I'd give ten Lara Croft for one Indiana Jones because I like better coolness than sexuality in heroes.

By the way, I also went to the other forum but found it way too negative too and your sketches are amazing. Even if you don't say so, you have a real talent.

[minigeek]

In the movies, Lara Croft was very cool. She's played by Angelina Jolie and she does both the dressing up and the dressing down bits very well; she wears great outfits, and they're not too sexed up, well, not *hugely* - she wears skin tight body suits sometimes, but I mean, even Indiana had some shirtless moments.



PS-> Thanks for the kind words re: the other forum.

[the dancer of spaz]

I need a few seconds to vent. I know this probably doesn't have relevance here but I need an ear that'll at least understand.

A few months back, I started posting to help out some other SAmandans in spreading some positive remarks about Sam over in the "official" forum. I took a break and stopped a while back because it was just too hostile (in general). Well, after I did that CB sketch, I thought I'd share it over there in the CB thread, since that seems to be where a great majority of CB fans are. I have a history of defending the Carter character on those boards, but I figured that wouldn't matter. So I posted the sketch. Want to know the ONLY reply I got? As a PM on the "official" boards, I got this:

too little too late

Now I realize it wasn't the greatest sketch in the world, but what the heck does that mean? I'm definitely not into pidgeonholeing people or forming generic stereotypes, but I simply cannot help but compare two groups of people when something like that happens. I worked for a while on that sketch, and while I wasn't doing it for fanfare, I certainly wasn't doing it for some kind of insult. I have to say, that is the last time I share anything with that particular fan segment. I'm really sorry to say that. But it certainly seems to me that AT's fans seem a heck of a lot friendlier to chat with than some of the others I've met since joining these forums online. I don't know why that is, and it's certainly just my own experience, but I have to say it none the less.

Before I go I should mention that one Vala/CB fan did send me a nice PM. But it was here in GW. Rather ironically, I received *several* very sweet comments and PMs from SAmandans about it (imagine that!), so again, I think that case is resting rather soundly.

Bah!

I'm sorry, mg. It's probably dangerous to compare fan groups, but when it comes to the Sony people, I have no problems. They've made their motives and mindsets clear over there, it would seem - clear enough so that fans of all persuasions know where they're coming from. I think that says a lot about the general fandom.

It really angers me to think that there are people out there so consumed by contempt and hatred for a character/actor that his/her fans that they'd behave that way. Very sad.

You're a wonderful artist, mg and they don't deserve to see your work over there anyway. Let them wallow in their own hatred.

~ the (angry and annoyed) dancer of spaz

[Lys]

In the movies, Lara Croft was very cool. She's played by Angelina Jolie and she does both the dressing up and the dressing down bits very well; she wears great outfits, and they're not too sexed up, well, not *hugely* - she wears skin tight body suits sometimes, but I mean, even Indiana had some shirtless moments.

http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/8...017qu7nn9w.jpg

PS-> Thanks for the kind words re: the other forum.

The movie version is way better than the game one. Another question, does this version of Lara Croft come all sweaty and breathless after a long run in the sun or after being chased by vilains ? I'm not preaching for AD's choir but for reality.
And about Indiana's shirtless moments, if there's some fun involved, what's a girl to do ?

[jckfan55]

Bah!
It really angers me to think that there are people out there so consumed by contempt and hatred for a character/actor that his/her fans that they'd behave that way. Very sad.

You're a wonderful artist, mg and they don't deserve to see your work over there anyway. Let them wallow in their own hatred.

~ the (angry and annoyed) dancer of spaz

I agree with Dancer, MG. I have been appalled by the venom on a certain site. Not only has the character been attacked (in the most hateful way & with a contorted re-writing of history) but those poisonous people have also personally attacked the actor. I'm glad we have no place for that here.

[minigeek]

I agree with Dancer, MG. I have been appalled by the venom on a certain site. Not only has the character been attacked (in the most hateful way & with a contorted re-writing of history) but those poisonous people have also personally attacked the actor. I'm glad we have no place for that here.

Bah. Scooo 'em

On a happy note! I'm almost done my sketches!! I've been working on these for a long time, because they're more cartoon-esque and I think you guys'll probably also get the fact that I like my comic book heros when you see some of this. It's sort of my version of Sam Carter the comic book heroin. And um... I did a shipper one too. But I'm way self conscious about these, I admit that in advance, because I haven't been drawing in this style very long and it's kinda experimental for me. It's not like, happy fluffy pretty-go-lucky Sam, it's more of a dark version. Anyway, I really hope you guys like the end result. Hopefully I'll show ya in a day or two. Time permitting. By the end of the week for sure.

Hugs,
mini