Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[jckfan55]

By the way, I just want to add that I entirely agree with your praise of Brad Wright. These have always been his shows, and he is still, by far, the best writer Stargate has ever seen. And he does it quietly. While other writers seem to have their own agendas as far as fandom is concerned, he seems to shy away from any effusive praise of his contribution to the franchise. For years, early on, I would sing the praises of Secrets and Serpent's Song. Character wise, the way those episodes set up conflict for each and every one of the characters, I felt they were remarkable episodes for a show so young to be able to produce. It wasn't until years later, here at GateWorld, I read an old interview where Brad is quoted as saying that he rewrote those episodes from page one. He's the reason that Lost City plays so great for the SG-1 team, and I still have a sneaking suspicion that he's responsible for Act IV of Heroes Part II. Anyway, suffice it to say that I wish Brad Wright could put a little more time into SG-1.

You know, thinking about it, if I had my druthers, my one wish for the probable season 10 of SG-1 and season 3 of Atlantis, it would be for Brad Wright and Rob Cooper to swap their showrunning duties for each show. I've always believed that Rob Cooper was absolutely terrific at writing the big plot. He's great at coming up with and executing a natural progression of events within the story. I'm specifically thinking Torment of Tantalus, Fifth Man, Fair Game, and Nemesis--episodes like that. It seems that his ideas change the Stargate universe in the most significant ways. Brad Wright, on the other hand, has a handle on the characters like no one else does. Plain and simple, SG-1 never has to act out of character when Brad Wright writes them.

Well said. (I've just excerpted portions of your excellent post. ) I also think Brad Wright is the guy we need more of. He, after all, is one of the "founding fathers" of the show, so I think he has the best handle on the characters.
Have some blue jello on me.

[jckfan55]

....
yes, he is. brad gets to the heart of the characters. i personally see his fine hand in the reckoning/threds/moebius arc

he's a master at putting in those little character moments that i find so appealing. little looks, glances, phrases, etc. he's the heart of the show in that he can write ALL the characters well.

Sky, you've mentioned one of my hobby horses--the character moment. You don't have to devote a whole episode to their personal lives to have character development and insight. IMO, most of what made me love the characters were not "Jack episodes" or "Sam episodes," but those moments that come up in a variety of episodes.

[golfbooy]

Originally Posted by Strix varia:
You're right, though, Sam doesn't seem to be taking orders from Cam. The team doesn't have a clearly defined leader. But that's because Sam should be the leader, and she should be giving the orders, and many people (including the writers, apparently) can see that. Okay, so maybe you're right and SG-1 doesn't need a clearly defined leader. Everything you say about their experience is correct. Sure, the writers can probably make this work.

It's the principle of the thing that gets to me, you know? It's an injustice in our society, and -so far- it's an injustice on this show, too.

I would have greened you for this post if I could. Your points about SG-1 not needing a leader are spot on, and I agree that even the writers are aware that Sam should have command. Personally, I can't help but see Skiffy's handywork when it comes to Browder being on the show, period. I don't mind Mitchell. He makes an excellent fourth on the team. It's just that he ought to be Major Mitchell. Honestly, I'd have preferred them to go the route of SG-1 grooming Mitchell for eventual command of the team. Like it or not, Sam, Daniel, and Teal'c have been doing this for a long time. Eventually, someone else is going to have to take over.

It would have been a great character journey for the Mitchell character to have to taken, and it would have given the character something unique, something that was entirely his. Right now, he's just flailing about. He's more of an attachment to Landry than he is leader of SG-1. I think such a path would have still allowed the writers to have Mitchell revere SG-1 so, as he has thus far, and it would have added a mentoring quality to his interactions with Daniel (such as in Avalon), with Teal'c (with the Jaffa High Council), and with Sam (pick any conversation between the two). But then, Browder couldn't be the new "star" of the show, now could he?

[Rune]

Just flying by to drop this off

[Dani76]

OK, this is my last post...I'm leaving today, and I don't know when I'll be able to be back, so I just wanted to say, thank you, to everyone in Samanda....for making my time on the Forum, and here, so much fun.

Lida, I only wish you the best and hope you'll be back soon.

I'm going to have to finish compiling that list tomorrow, it's taking longer than I thought, and it's late. Sorry Dani.

Thanks for your efforts, deepspace. And you are right, we could have each just added it ourselves.

But, I want to point out that some of us are worked up about it because it goes beyond the scope of a simple TV show. In fact, it's tied up in a much larger social/cultural reality that has to do with women in leadership positions in general.

It's the principle of the thing that gets to me, you know? It's an injustice in our society, and -so far- it's an injustice on this show, too.

Strix, spot on. Good points. I think that's the biggest problem with the whole issue, at least for me. And you are right, TPTB are probably between a rock and a hard place and had to somehow come up with a solution. The only thing is, somehow somebody made things worse, by making Sam and Mitchell same ranking officers and giving Mitchell less experience. That's like an extra slap in the face while you're already bleeding. You know what I mean. Unless, it was necessary for a later storyline. But if that's the case and we all got worked up over this for a good plot, then it better be a good one and Sam better get something good out of it.

Sexism works both ways, in creating a glass ceiling for women, and not allowing men to do things that would be considered more feminine, like let's say child care. It's in EVERYONE'S best interest to have equal opportunities, therefore choices, available to all.

Jerin, you are absolutely right. It does work both ways, unfortunately.

[Skydiver]

although i'm not passionate about either pov, sam being in command or cam being in command, i do think that the 'major mitchell being groomed' would have been a good way to go.

who says that the 'male lead' has to be the boss?????

And i agree, i think i see skiffy's fine meddling hand

Personally, i don't think a petition will make much difference. they're so easily faked that they are dismissed.

however, snail mail or e-mail does get listened to

I"m going to take jerin's idea and drop skiffy a line. just to tell them pretty much what i posted here, why DO they have to be so old school that they think that a show MUST have a male lead????

the e-mail addy she gave i'm going to post here again
'[email protected]'

even if they don't care about teh bb/at situation, it can't hurt to drop a line or two in support of our queen now can it

[jerin]

although i'm not passionate about either pov, sam being in command or cam being in command, i do think that the 'major mitchell being groomed' would have been a good way to go.

who says that the 'male lead' has to be the boss?????

And i agree, i think i see skiffy's fine meddling hand

Personally, i don't think a petition will make much difference. they're so easily faked that they are dismissed.

however, snail mail or e-mail does get listened to

I"m going to take jerin's idea and drop skiffy a line. just to tell them pretty much what i posted here, why DO they have to be so old school that they think that a show MUST have a male lead????

the e-mail addy she gave i'm going to post here again
'[email protected]'

even if they don't care about teh bb/at situation, it can't hurt to drop a line or two in support of our queen now can it

Thank you, Sky! I'm so glad you and others invited me to this forum. Thank you everyone for the wonderful posts. It seems I'm all out of green jello. Otherwise, I'd send them over. (Does happy dance and runs around with a smile on her face, still ignoring her reading assignments.)

[Qasim]

Some Sam wallpapers - http://www.brionhet.com/wallpapers/SGChSam.htm

[Osiris-RA]

Hehe, I like that "Hail Dorothy" one. She really is Dorothy, ain't she?

Flyby sam-cap from The Nox. I've got more but I've gotta re-size them. I'm trying to cap all of S1 and S5 (which is all I have at the moment...) This is my favorite part. Actualy, her actually shooting anything is my favorite part.

[Qasim]

Some art - from the thumbnails it looks like Sam but when you click its mostly S/J http://memento.pinch-me.net/ot.htm

[Coley]

Hey AD, thanks for the attempt to lighten things up.

I have to comment on the leadership issue, though. Your perspective is perfectly valid, and it's probably a healthy way to look at things, so don't think I'm trying to knock you.

But, I want to point out that some of us are worked up about it because it goes beyond the scope of a simple TV show. In fact, it's tied up in a much larger social/cultural reality that has to do with women in leadership positions in general. Much though many men don't like to hear the "same old tiresome feminist rhetoric," (and I apologize for getting into it here) the truth is that there are still a lot of barriers for women to overcome, and they don't always get equal treatment when it comes to leadership opportunities. Believe me, having worked in the emergency services for 20 years, I can say with authority that prejudice (conscious or not) is alive and well in male-dominated fields. Are things getting better? Sure, absolutely, but there's still a battle being waged by women in those fields every day.

It is disheartening for some of us to see reality so accurately portrayed on our favorite TV show. Cam is not as qualified to lead SG-1 as Sam. That's the bottom line for many of us, and I don't think even you would argue the point. So why isn't she given command? That gets into all those social and cultural issues.

I think it's a business decision because the suits in control know that a large portion of the audience would have serious issues with a female commanding an elite military unit responsible for saving the world on a routine basis. Regardless of the storyline logic, regardless of AT's popularity and talent, regardless of the ethical implications, (and probably regardless of AT's availability at the beginning of the season) it's a cultural thing, and if they wanted to continue SG-1, they knew they'd have to find a male lead (read leader) to replace RDA.

Think about it. Let's say in Season 2, O'Neill decided to retire or take another position at the Pentagon or something. In his absence, another Colonel with less field experience was placed in charge of SG-1. Later, O'Neill decided to return to the SGC. Do you think there would be an uproar if he was suddenly forced to serve under Mister New Guy as 2IC of his former team? Of course there would have been. It wouldn't have happened. It's a scenario that the writers, the suits, and the audience wouldn't have even contemplated.

So, basically, from my perspective, in the grand scheme of TV-land, the reason why Cam has command instead of Sam all boils down to the fact that Sam's a woman. It's the explanation that makes the most sense at this point.

And, while I understand the choices being made, frankly, to me, it still sucks.

That said, I think that TPTB knew that they were caught between a rock and a hard place. They're not stupid, and they knew that people like me (um, career women who have personal experience with gender-based inequities in the workplace) would not be happy. Perhaps, they were not happy about it, either. I'd like to think that. I mean, they've given us the wonderful character of Sam so far; they've given us Weir. So they tried to downplay the leadership issue, pussy-foot around it. I think they've been very sensitive to the issue actually, but in attempting to deal with it in an "acceptable-to-everyone" manner, they've made some decisions that have only made it worse. For example, I appreciate that they apparently didn't want Sam to continue in "yes, sir," "no, sir" subordinate mode, but the result is that she looks even more slighted by having to serve under Cam who is so clearly "the new guy" with less experience.

Personally, I'd rather see Sam clearly outranked by her commanding officer than have her serving as 2IC to someone who is so prone to making novice mistakes. Speaking as someone who understands the desire for career advancement as a woman in a man's world, I can say, with a fair degree of certainty, that Sam would perceive this as a step back, and it doesn't make sense for her character, at least not with the information that has been given to us so far. The writers could yet correct this problem, and there are ways they could make it believable. They just haven't done it yet.

You're right, though, Sam doesn't seem to be taking orders from Cam. The team doesn't have a clearly defined leader. But that's because Sam should be the leader, and she should be giving the orders, and many people (including the writers, apparently) can see that. Okay, so maybe you're right and SG-1 doesn't need a clearly defined leader. Everything you say about their experience is correct. Sure, the writers can probably make this work.

It's the principle of the thing that gets to me, you know? It's an injustice in our society, and -so far- it's an injustice on this show, too.

Hey everyone. I'm just back from a long weekend of outdoor pursuits in Qasim country. Just flicked back one page and had to comment on this straight away.

Strix I think this is one of the best posts I have read for a long time. Sorry I can't green you!

Right to the point and hit the spot perfectly for me. Working with male engineers who are mostly over 50 years of age I come accross the gender blindspot time and time again. It is infuriating, insulting and totally irrational sometimes to the point that they sadly make complete fools of themselves. It will be a cold day in hell when a female is recruited into a top management team post.

The writers have done such an excellent job developing this character and it is a total cop out not to let the development come to it's natural and logical conclusion.

Amanda is a fantastic actor and probably desrves the lead in the show too - especially given the amount of effort and time she has devoted to her role over 8 years. I'd never seen BB in anything before, so not lead material as far as I'm concerned. I would put Michael and Chris in front of BB too.

The male PTB are probably running scared of acknowledging on a popular tv show the one thing that most intelligent/professional/career women already know - that we can do the lead jobs just as well if not better than any male, AT/Sam being a case in point. On the whole people can be swayed by what is presented to them on TV - heaven forbid that people should be swayed into accepting and embracing a female lead and in-command character in a sci fi show.

Recent events have made me form the opinion that the male PTB have actually not got any b***s!!

I have to disagree with AD though I do think that SG1 should have a very clear sense of who is in command, they are a small unit and in times of danger one person needs to make the calls and the others should follow without question. Discussion can come in appropriate situations - which we have seen a lot of over the years between O'Neill, Daniel and Sam.

[Qasim]

Hey everyone. I'm just back from a long weekend of outdoor pursuits in Qasim country.

I wasnt aware that Wales had been renamed its about time though

[jerin]

Hey everyone. I'm just back from a long weekend of outdoor pursuits in Qasim country. Just flicked back one page and had to comment on this straight away.

Strix I think this is one of the best posts I have read for a long time. Sorry I can't green you!

Right to the point and hit the spot perfectly for me. Working with male engineers who are mostly over 50 years of age I come accross the gender blindspot time and time again. It is infuriating, insulting and totally irrational sometimes to the point that they sadly make complete fools of themselves. It will be a cold day in hell when a female is recruited into a top management team post.

The writers have done such an excellent job developing this character and it is a total cop out not to let the development come to it's natural and logical conclusion.

Amanda is a fantastic actor and probably desrves the lead in the show too - especially given the amount of effort and time she has devoted to her role over 8 years. I'd never seen BB in anything before, so not lead material as far as I'm concerned. I would put Michael and Chris in front of BB too.

The male PTB are probably running scared of acknowledging on a popular tv show the one thing that most intelligent/professional/career women already know - that we can do the lead jobs just as well if not better than any male, AT/Sam being a case in point. On the whole people can be swayed by what is presented to them on TV - heaven forbid that people should be swayed into accepting and embracing a female lead and in-command character in a sci fi show.

Recent events have made me form the opinion that the male PTB have actually not got any b***s!!

I have to disagree with AD though I do think that SG1 should have a very clear sense of who is in command, they are a small unit and in times of danger one person needs to make the calls and the others should follow without question. Discussion can come in appropriate situations - which we have seen a lot of over the years between O'Neill, Daniel and Sam.

Very well said on your part, too. Sorry I can't give you green jello.

[jerin]

I wasnt aware that Wales had been renamed its about time though

Ha-ha. Qasim country. Has a nice ring to it.

[Qasim]

Ha-ha. Qasim country. Has a nice ring to it.

It does indeed *evil maniacal 'take over the world' laughter *