Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[Osiris-RA]

I still get glimmers of feeling that Sam would rather be back in R&D focusing on new path in her career and personal life and that it's more like she's just tolerating being there because the Ori is allegedly such a "dire" threat and being the honor and duty bound soul that she is... she will be there in a heartbeat to pitch in, regardless of where she'd rather be. (maybe 'tolerating' isn't the right word, but I can't think of a better one at the moment)

I agree. When I first saw Beachhead - even though I was glad to see Sam back - there was still something a bit lifeless about it. I get that TPTB needed to get the Team back together, using Mitchell as the incentive. But really, it seems that Sam would be happier leading a new life of less deadly ambition. (Not that saving the world now and then isn't good excercise. ) Frankly, I found Mitchell a bit rude, dragging everyone back into his vision of the SG -1 team. From that, one could ask why he would bother in the first place (yeah yeah, he was promised a place on SG-1, he shot down a few death gliders, yadda yadda) but, really, SG-1's been at it for so long...isn't it time they get a break?

What more obvious plot device is there than what he did???! "Leaders" like CM who are brash and bumbling while proporting to have all the knowledge of SG1 mission reports and *all* that military training, and they're not applying it wisely... that person isn't going to survive long in that kind of environment. Or shouldn't. And the excuse of his character providing comic relief or a plot device (if TPTB should want to use it) just doesn't fly IMO. Not on a show like this that use to have higher standards for itself.

Yeah, there's different ways of being funny. A character doesn't always have to rely on slapstick to make you laugh. We've been with SG-1 for awhile, if they did somthing funny, we might say, if we were with them at that funny moment, we'd probably laugh and ease the tension of whatever tense situation we were 'in'. SG-1's humour is usually sarcastic or subtle anyway. But what he did could have potentialy put them in danger. Some people might say "Well, Jack's pressed things too." Jack was always careful - and made sure he knew what he was doing even if he seemed a bit...er...daft? I think it's Carter or Daniel usually that push buttons. Jack tended to push emotional buttons.

There are different ways of releasing a genetic clone into the world anyway. Someone could have backed into it. Waved a hand over something accidentally, said the equivelant of 'Open Sesame". Honestly, it seems like TPTB are unconsciously sabotaging their own character with his antics.

[ChevronSeven]

Well then, TPTB need to explain their previous statements which inferred Mitchell was only the temporary leader of SG-1 and that Sam would get command back.

JUST TELL US. They could make life oh so much easier if they fess up or clue us in one way or the other.

Sheesh.

But that would be reasonable, Über. They don't seem to be able to do that.

[ChevronSeven]

Or maybe most of you all don't share my irritation here...

But this is for me an incredibly sore point because it was my mental line...that I wouldn't have a problem with a star from Farscape joining the cast as long as he did not get command of SG-1.

And here we are halfway through the season with mixed signals from TPTB and irritating reminders on screen that so far what they said would happen...HASN'T.

They should have either made him come in as someone with gate experience (who perhaps led another team) as a full Colonel who never expected to serve under Sam, or they should have made him a Major who ws clearly outranked by Carter...but this "kinda subservient, but kinda leading, but not really" attitude is just horrible in its implementation.

Please tell me that there are a few others that are as irked about the way this is going as I am.

Count me in as being irked. This entire concept of having a team with people of the same rank - and by rank I mean one's that could be in charge of a team - is ridiculous. There's clearly no clear chain of command here.

[Traveler Enroute1]

Yeah I think the point of it though was that the comment threw her. For me it's always funny to see "Miss Always Under Control" get flummoxed.

Uber, I didn't think Landry's and Lam's comments on this appropriate. I would loved to have Sam look them dead in their eyes and say in her coldest-I-know-you-didn't-go-there voice, "Consistent with any First Contact situation, yes."

I don't recall anyone officially zinging Jack like that when he wedded and bedded an alien while under the influence in Brief Candle.

My take on an otherwise great ep.
Just sayin'.

[Uber]

Uber, I didn't think Landry's and Lam's comments on this appropriate. I would loved to have Sam look them dead in their eyes and say in her coldest-I-know-you-didn't-go-there voice, "Consistent with any First Contact situation, yes."

I don't recall anyone officially zinging Jack like that when he wedded and bedded an alien while under the influence in Brief Candle.

My take on an otherwise great ep.
Just sayin'.

Maybe he was trying to find her "kryptonite." Perhaps part of the point was to see how she responded...and I think she did fine...a little thrown at first but then steady on her feet.

And the situation with Jack was slightly different since it was not his idea and he almost died as a result...

[Traveler Enroute1]

Maybe he was trying to find her "kryptonite." Perhaps part of the point was to see how she responded...and I think she did fine...a little thrown at first but then steady on her feet.

And the situation with Jack was slightly different since it was not his idea and he almost died as a result...

Good comeback.

Just sayin'.

[Uber]

Good comeback.

Just sayin'.

"Nothin' but love for ya...TE1...nothin' but love..." (one of my favorite lines from Independence Day by one of my favorite comedic actors...)

[majorsal]

spoilers for s9's fourth horseman

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Or something like "It was really a meshing of our spirits" or a classic Sam-technoexplanation of what ascendeds were 'made of.'

or she could have said, 'yeah, we did, but not like *that*' to landry and lam, who were both thinking sam was some pedophile or something.


sally

[majorsal]

Or maybe most of you all don't share my irritation here...

But this is for me an incredibly sore point because it was my mental line...that I wouldn't have a problem with a star from Farscape joining the cast as long as he did not get command of SG-1.

And here we are halfway through the season with mixed signals from TPTB and irritating reminders on screen that so far what they said would happen...HASN'T.

They should have either made him come in as someone with gate experience (who perhaps led another team) as a full Colonel who never expected to serve under Sam, or they should have made him a Major who ws clearly outranked by Carter...but this "kinda subservient, but kinda leading, but not really" attitude is just horrible in its implementation.

Please tell me that there are a few others that are as irked about the way this is going as I am.

it's the *same* thing with the ship this season. too afraid of making a statement one way or the other, so floating around it so that you can think whatever you want. they won't give us an answer on s/j or sam-mitchell-command for as long as they can stretch it.



sally

[stargate barbie]

spoilers for s9's fourth horseman

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or she could have said, 'yeah, we did, but not like *that*' to landry and lam, who were both thinking sam was some pedophile or something.


sally

i would assume that she specified as much in her report and that landry and lam were just pushing her buttons and she knew it, so she choose not to bite, if i may mix my metaphors. of course i have not seen the ep so i could be wrong, and to explain my theories on this we might have to continue this in the s/j thread.

i do think that sam and orlin were intimate, just not like that. up until season 7 sam had more sense than that.

[Dani76]

spoilers for s9's fourth horseman

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or she could have said, 'yeah, we did, but not like *that*' to landry and lam, who were both thinking sam was some pedophile or something.


sally

Exactly my thinking, Sally. I didn't mind seeing Amanda's great performance in this scene, it was hilarous to see her squirm for a sec. What I hated was this implication of her being a pedophile. I might be a bit sensitive in that respect, but that's the vibe I got. I still thought that it was a funny scene, they just could have handled it a bit better, more sensitive to the whole issue, if you know what I mean.

[Simhavaktra]

Like many of you said, Mitchell just doesn't bring anything to the show that was necessary, at least not so far. I really want to like the character, and if it's just to have harmony in the show and great believable team interaction, but it somehow does not work for me. I did like him at times, but more often he is just annoying me. I guess, there are many factors playing into this.

One rant deserve another, I say.

Professional, master-class, practicing cynic that I am I think that Mitchell brings something to the show that TPTB apparently find it necessary for Stargate to have. However, he does not, I think, bring something to the team, SG-1, and/or its functionality or effectiveness/efficiency in performing that functionality, that’s necessary, or even needed. But, I do think he does bring something to the show that TPTB found necessary. And what he brings is a plot device.

Mitchell is a plot device more than he’s a character. He’s a talking, portable, self propelled complication / resolution, ready to say, do, think of, not know, imagine, destroy, screw up, or rectify – literally… anything. Generally speaking he acts not as a character/person, from his self, the needs, intelligence, knowledge, skills, experiences, goals, desires that make up his self and make him that person, but, instead, from the exigencies of the plot du jour.

When the plot needs explanation, Mitchell’s there to instigate the explanation and listen to it. When a story needs something to connect all its bits and pieces together, Mitchell’s there to be the virtual silicone adhesive, stretching in all sorts of directions simultaneously, no matter how ludicrous or illogical that stretching might look, to be the relationship between the disparate components of the plot. When someone needs to do something imbecilic to launch the story, Mitchell’s there to touch what he ought to know better than to touch, or to act like anything but the officer and professional that the show professes him to be. When a wacky idea is required to pull together a good ending a minute before the tag, Mitchell is there to pull the idea out of his ear, no matter how many ‘and you didn’t think of that last week???’ comments it provokes. When a story needs an injection of commonplace, he’s there to get folksy about his grandmother’s religious tendencies. When it needs humor, he’s there to offer lame quips. When a story needs someone to play the cliché military officer with equally cliché tendencies to solve problems with C4 and P90’s he’s there to offer to shoot things and blow things up. When somebody has to get sick, he’s there to get sick. When the story needs a spare main character to send somewhere while everyone else is working on solving the situation at hand, there's Mitchell with his overnight bag in hand. When somebody needs to shoot their mouth off and illustrate Earth’s take on Jaffa politics, he’s there to be a diplomatic liability. When the story calls for someone to illustrate that something is incomprehensible, he’s there to complain about not comprehending. When Dr. Lam’s sanctity is impugned, he’s there to reprimand the impugner. When gratuitous action sequences are required, he’s there to heft the krantuh staff.

Meanwhile, he’s not a person. He has a fancy medal, an apparently annoying grandmother and a mother that visits him in the hospital, but never gets mentioned again. He plays basketball, and has a sort of ‘I define myself in terms of the stolid, cockroach-that-survived-the-pesticide-and-is-therefore-going-to-be-around-for-millions-of-years’ endurance vibe and an 'I'm a fighter pilot and by definition I'm too cool for all of this' thing going on, neither of which endear him to me; but, despite half a season and mounds of buildup, hype, and giddy promotion he doesn’t seem like a person to me. There’s not enough to the character for him to seem like so much as an actual character, much less a person. He’s more of a loose carronade if not a loose cannon, that, mysteriously, no one seems to notice caroming around lurching back and forth and here and there on the metaphorical decks. I can’t imagine a close knit SG team cleaving to Mitchell with his scattershot behavior and performance, much less trusting him with their lives in the field. He’s all too likely to get everyone killed by pushing the panel that restarts the self-destruct sequence that Carter managed to get stopped at 4 seconds to boom while she’s minutes away in the engine room. Except, of course, he’s apparently been given that magic Action Adventure Hero™ get out of deep kimchee free card that will forever protect him from anyone noticing that he’s none too swift. (it's even better than Niirti's invisibility gizmo, isn't it? )

I think Mitchell, acting exactly as he does, with his backstory, would have worked much better as a younger actor playing a first lieutenant. Then his erratic comprehension of and performance of his duties wouldn’t grate so much, because I could chalk it up to inexperience and immaturity. Or, if it had to be Ben Browder or bust, he needed to be a major - who hadn't made Lieutenant Colonel because of his erratic performance. But wait - he has that magic Action Adventure Hero™ get out of deep kimchee free, and get to be in charge without visible qualifications card, doesn't he? No subordinate rank for him.

Actually, I’m wondering if Mitchell isn’t being groomed as the handsome and photogenic face of the Stargate program if and when it goes public. Bleh. And why wouldn't a tall, slim, blue-eyed, blonde, beautiful genius be a good public face for the program, says I? But then, who listens to me?

Give me Sam any day. Flawed and imperfect she may be, and, I'm sure she'd agree she is, but she's also brilliant, competent, professional, knowledgable, compassionate, steady, intense, trustworthy, dedicated, connected and a delight to watch.

[Dani76]

One rant deserve another, I say.

Professional, master-class, practicing cynic that I am I think that Mitchell brings something to the show that TPTB apparently find it necessary for Stargate to have. However, he does not, I think, bring something to the team, SG-1, and/or its functionality or effectiveness/efficiency in performing that functionality, that’s necessary, or even needed. But, I do think he does bring something to the show that TPTB found necessary. And what he brings is a plot device.

You are absolutely right, I agree 100%. I actually misspoke when I said that he doesn't bring anything to the show. What I meant was what you just said, that he doesn't bring anything to the team (so far).
And you are making some excellent points, I think you saw through the whole scheme that TPTB have going here. Which is actually pretty sad. Because they had the option of bringing something new to the show and instead of giving the actor a chance of creating a strong character, they just make him a plot device.

[Dani76]

Please tell me that there are a few others that are as irked about the way this is going as I am.

I totally agree with you, Über, and that was one of the points I made in my earlier post.
Even if I accept that they had to have a MALE lead again and could just not handle a female lead for a change, give us some explanations, for crying out loud. I can't imagine that they don't see the holes in the whole concept. They've gotta be aware of it. So if this is the way they want it (or whoever makes the final decisions), then why not come up with a reasonable explanation to make the whole issue believeable. Give us something we can relate to.

There is also something else that bothers me with the whole issue. It's not just that I simply think that it's Sam's turn and that she deserves it. It's also that Sam is a role model for a lot of young women (and not so young ones, like me). For me she always stood for "You can do it if you really believe in it." She showed us that women are just as capable as men, not that I ever doubted that. But it was great to see it shown on TV, encouraging (young) woman to follow their dreams. Worked with me.
TPTB've gotta know that. That's one of the strong features of Sam, that make her so appealing. But the way the character is treated right now, it just destroys that picture.

'Oh, the (male) general left? It's the female Lt. Col.'s turn to move up? No, let's not do that. Let's just have another (male) officer come in, who is of equal rank, and let's give him command. But, to make sure that everybody is getting the point, let's make him less experienced...'

I mean, come on, how downgrading is that???

Well, as you can probably tell, I am very much irked about this. On top of all that the order of the opening credits, and there is always this bitter aftertaste, no matter how great the episode is. Sorry, if I sound a bit harsh here, and maybe I am taking it all too seriuosly and it will all work out, but that's just how I feel right now.

[binkpmmc]

Hmm, I don't really like the sound of this. In the past eight seasons, they've never done this. One thing I always liked about Stargate was that they never overemphasised the fact that Sam was a woman, and the rest of the team were guys. They never made that divide between them in any way (except for Hathor, and that was perfectly alright ). So if they're suddenly giving Sam different treatment just because she's female, that's going to be weird. I mean, it's not that I don't think Sam wouldn't be capable of handling any trouble on her own, it's that she always used to be 'just one of the team'. She always fit in so well with the guys that there was never an issue about whether she was an equal part of the team or not.

You know I saw these two eps completely differently - I thought Mitchell was gone a lot and I thought he was alone a lot. After I finished watching them I realized gee seems there was not as much of Mitchell so I went back and lo and behold there were times when 6 minutes or so of actual show would go by and he was nowhere to be seen. Then he was alone a lot in 4HM when he was "out in the field" again looking like he was commanding no one just standing around reporting in to Landry. I also noticed Daniel and Sam together quite a bit and Daniel and Teal'c together but I also noticed Teal'c gone off alone on Dakara for almost all of the 4HM. TPTB are sticking with their old sorry story of keeping the team separated but I have not seen it as detrimental to Carter, in fact when the three old gang members are together alone it feels more like a team to me than when Mitchell is there like when Carter showed up in the lab where Khalek was found and it was just the three of them - that was good, substantive, stuff.

I would like to like Mitchell but TPTB have given me nothing to work with except flashes of O'Neill and that alone turns me off, then add in the incompetence and the lack of reality by having him in lead and it just doesn't sit well with me and I cannot get invested in the guy, ergo I cannot really care about him. It is my same question - what does he bring to the team, what is his purpose? When he is not around, IMO, there is no gap - he has, IMO, exhibited no exceptional leadership skills, which he supposedly has as we were TOLD so by Landry and he has contributed almost nothing of substance, IMO. Sorry went off on a little tangent there.