Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[stargate barbie]

I have one saved from last Christmas, round the time when I joined.

very cool. i want one. i'd love an earth symbol to put on top of a christmas tree.

[deepspace]

While I haven't seen the season 9 appearance of Orlin yet, I thought I could at least join in discussion by talking about the episode Ascension.
I enjoyed this episode. Apart from the obvious fact that it was centred around Sam, (and we even got to see her house!) I really liked her interaction with Orlin. I always percieved their relationship as not something that was necissarily romantic or intimate, but as a natural curiosity, on both their parts, about something that was new and otherworldly. Sam was as intriguing to Orlin as he was to her, and I think they would have both learnt a lot from each other. I don't think their relationship could ever have developed beyond that, and I wouldn't have wanted it to, but it was a nice episode which showed us a different side of Sam, and how she reacted/interacted with a being from another world/level of existence.
It also set up a lot of the fundamental backround to the following stories about ascension.
There are some things about the episode that annoyed me, like the team's attitude towards Sam when they all thought she was going nuts, but that was I guess important to the story.
At the time I was glad it was a one-off episode, so it'll be interesting to see what they do in the next one.

[golfbooy]

OK, I'm back for a quick read. I can't get this out of my warped little head now.

Originally Posted by ForeverSg1:
You asked earlier if the difference between Orlin and Pete was the fact that Orlin was an alien so he got a get out of jail free card for being a stalker where Pete didn't. In my opinion, the answer is yes. The reason being, Pete is from Earth. He is a cop. He knows the rules of conduct on this planet. He knows how someone should and shouldn't behave and he not only ignored those rules, he used his own job in order to stalk Sam.

Orlin on the other hand was an alien. We don't know much about the Ancients or Ascended other than what we have seen through Daniel/Oma and now the Ori. We do not know what their normal conduct is, or how they introduce themselves. They are energy beings. I seriously doubt they take human form simply to speak to one another. Orlin told Sam that his kind had a different level of communication. What Orlin tried to do to Sam on the planet may have been in fact something as simple as shaking hands for an energy being. We really have no way of knowing.

But what we do know of the Ancients suggests that they are keenly aware of our existence, even if they don't interfere in it. We are, as it turns out, created by them. And their seemingly omniscent abilities concerning events on our plane of existence debunks the idea that he couldn't have known any better. And even if it was the equivalent of shaking hands, when was the last time you snuck up on somebody and did it unannounced? Why not show himself to her first?

I , like other's have already commented, believe that up until Sam agreed to the glowy exchange that Sam acted very much in character. She did everything that she should have done to prove that someone was in fact in her house. However, the difference between Orlin and the foothold situation was that in the Foothold situation, the evidence was tangible. In Orlin's case, what was Sam suppose to do to prove that Orlin existed? He did not possess corporeal form unless he chose to do so. Sam did everything in her power to prove she was not a psyche case,but noone believed her. Right or wrong, whether anyone else acted in character, I believe Sam did.

I agree that up to that point she was totally in character concerning Orlin's presence. But I don't buy that afterward she gives up trying to convince others as a lost cause. And I don't buy that she just accepts this being living with her, and there being nothing she can do to stop it. And I especially can't buy that the only thing she can do is love him for it, which is what Orlin hoped would happen.

Both Fifth and Orlin had a child-like curiosity and I saw no real intent to harm Sam. Whereas Fifth in New Order invaded Sam's mind without her consent and in my opinion he went out of his way to make sure he inflicted pain ( be it emotional, physical, or psychological ) in the process.

So if there is no intent to harm Sam, whether it does or not is irrelevant? Everyone thought Sam was crazy, she was treated differently and with less crediblity at work, she was spied on by the NID. All because of Orlin. Even if his intentions were as you say, child-like, the fact remains that his actions were harmful to Sam. I can't just overlook that because the guy was cute and charming and really into her. In fact, and to go further, in The Fifth Man Sam's lapse in judgement with Orlin was used against her, definitely by Simmons and perhaps even by Hammond. It's certainly logical to assume that Sam's claim of a Lt. Tyler who Hammond had never seen before was more of a concern after the Orlin incident than before. I don't see how whether or not Orlin intended to hurt Sam matters much. The fact remains that he did. That she doesn't have a problem with it, and that she doesn't care is a different Sam from how she's been portrayed in SG-1.

I understand your reasons for not believing or enjoying the episode, but I have to disagree with your views about Orlin.

Strangely enough, and it really must seem strange after all of this, I actually do enjoy watching Ascension. It's such a great performance out of Amanda Tapping that I totally buy into what's going on while watching it. It is a favorite episode of mine (if I have such a thing, I like them all). It's just that when I think about the episode afterwards, it always rankles me.

On a different note,

Spoiler:

does anyone else feel that by bringing Orlin back they are lessening the impact of his perceived death?

I mean, I always took it that Orlin sacrificed himself for Sam and Earth at the end of Ascension. Did anyone else see it that way, or am I alone?

[Uber]

A new interview is posted with Don S. Davis...

He talks about coming back to the set and why he's there...

Spoiler:

how Hammond's working for Jack now

...

And I'm also happy to say that it looks like my fears for our dear general were misplaced...

[WhatFateAlmondRoca]

I'm sorry, so what you're saying is that if, and I stress IF, Orlin is pure of heart, and if he really, really likes her, and if Sam wants an emotionally available man, alien, whatever, then it's all OK? His behavior is all right so long as he's a really good person? I don't agree that because a person is good that it excuses any bad, wrong, or abusive action they take. There are many men who beat their wives but love them nonetheless. Does that excuse their violence?

You seem to be judging Orlin's actions by your personal beliefs and you are free to do so. I don't think, however, we need to beat people over the head by raising the spectre of wifebeating to make our points here (hic comitas regit). I think its the attitude that more than your points that I'm reacting to.

You seem to be justifying Orlin's actions with your own personal beliefs about women and what they're looking for in relationships. While that's OK, I'm trying to justify it from what I've seen established as Sam Carter's personal beliefs about what she wants from a relationship.

One of the things I like about the ep/Sam is that they are learning, as are all of us apparrently, NOT to always judge others by our own personal standards, let alone human ones. Everyone at the SGC judged Sam, Sam judged Orlin. Once they all had a bit more information about the situation and one another, the plot advanced. I'm not justifying them, but I'm not judging them harshly, one of the lessons of this ep. As for 'what Sam wants in a relationship', I wasn't going there; all I said was that the sharing thing gave her more information about Orlin than she had before and that affected her actions from that point forward. IMHO.

I'm telling you, if I found a woman attractive, followed her home, stayed in her house all night, and then jumped her in the morning by professing my undying love for her I would end up in jail. Period. That's not cute, it's criminal. And it's criminal whether he's an alien or not.

Again, YOUR personal standards. And Sam might have thought that as well initially, she seemd to bristle considerably when he was talking to her in the kitchen. For some reason her attitude toward him seemed to change after the glowy thing, maybe she understood better why he did what he did? Your post didn't really seem to make much of an allowance for the effect of the glowy deal, that's all I was saying.

ETA: I'm a bit unclear by what you mean by "emotional availability". What does that mean? That because Orlin is ready to be in love with Sam, then she's automatically inclined to love him back? Sorry, I just don't understand what you're getting at.

Good question. And no that's not what I mean. I apologize, goolf, I posted that REALLY quick while being late for a meeting. (Note to self, never do that). I didn't really give you enough to go on for any kind of discussion.

Anyway, RL beckons and I must sign off. Enjoy the eps tonight!

[deepspace]

I'm back into "watching Uber's vid" mode. Everytime I watch it I see something new! This time it was the neat merging of the video from Sam and Jolinar dying to the scene from X-files. The positions are almost identical!

Uber's vid is doing so well in the video category. It really is a special piece of videoart. And I still love the song too. I only just thought to look up the lyrics, and finally figured out some of the words I kept puzzling over.

That Girl (Was a one time teenage drama queen)
Lindsay Lohan
There was a girl I knew who always wanted to be the one to stand out from the crowd
Always believed that she was gonna live her dreams
That what went down was gonna come around
For all the doubters, non-believers, the cynicals that once were dreamers
One of these days you'll open up your eyes
And you'll realize

(Chorus)
That girl was a one time teenage drama queen
A hot, tough everyday wannabee
But she'll have changed her destiny
Now she's a somebody
That girl was a wild child dreamer but she found herself
'Cause she believes in nothin' else
And you'll look back and you won't believe
That girl was me

Armed with an attitude that she knows how to use
She's gonna get there any way she can
Now she knows what she wants
No one is gonna stop her
Nothing's ever gonna hold her down
For all the doubters, non-believers the cynicle that once were dreamers
One of these days you'll know that you were wrong (who would've know)

(Chorus)

Doubters, non-believers, once were dreamers
One of these days you'll open up your eyes
And you'll realize

(Chorus 2X)

[Uber]

Cam once again proves he has no business leading SG-1.

Spoiler:

I cringed in Prototype when he contacted the SGC and referred to himself as SG-1 Leader...and then he turned around and proved he had no business leading the team by touching things he had no business touching.

Did anyone else get that feeling too?????

[sg-1fanintn]

Hi, fellow Samandans! Just popping in during the commercial break to say I did something on Gateworld just now that I never did before: started a thread!

I don't think it will be long-lasting, but it could be interesting. The topic is why there are so many new sci-fi shows on the major networks this year. I thought it was worth a little forum-wide discussion.

If you have an opinion on this subject, or just want to discuss it, please stop by! It's at: http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...56#post4509756

To stay on-topic: Sam is great tonight! But I know already that we'll have to talk about one line after the show in spoilers. Mitchell, Mitchell, Mitchell!!!!! What are we going to do with the new guy? Sigh......

[Dani76]

Wow! Wow! Wow! How awesome is this episode???!!! Damn. Is Alan McCullough a new writer? If so, good decision to hire him IMHO.
Hopefully, TFH is as powerful as this ep. What a summer finale that would be!!! Of course, that will make waiting for January even harder. But I can deal with that if the second half will be as great as this episode.
Great Sam action. But still no clear answer on the leader issue. I mean, my opinion is of course made up, but they could make it a bit clearer. One second I am 100% sure and then the next scene they make it unclear again. Won't change my opinion, of course. Other than that, great and immensly powerfule ep! Way to go.
Sorry, for the short post, but I had to get it off my chest.

[binkpmmc]

Wow, that sounds really neat sky! I used to do a bit of silver wirework, and hope to oneday learn casting/soldering. My big dream is to make a little silver stargate. I don't know if any of you remember the Gateworld header picture that was around a lot at Christmas time? The one of the little stargate hanging in the Christmas tree? That really inspired me to someday make something like that.


Yes, do you think your friend would mind you posting a pic of the necklace she made you?

Glad you decided to stay deepspace.

[NearlyCircular]

I really liked Prototype! It was another good team episode, with everyone contributing. Mitchell - clearly demonstrating that he's the "new guy" and has a lot to learn about not touching things. And was it just me, or did Daniel sound like Jack at times in this ep?

As far as TFH, damn, I hate cliffhangers! Too many things left to clear up. I did like that

Spoiler:

Gerak wasn't as evil as they've been making him appear before this.

And the way that Orlin was presented worked for me.

On the whole, I thought it was the best Friday night of SG1 in a while - 2 solid hours of good shows, both chock full of SAM!

NC

[Uber]

I really liked Prototype! It was another good team episode, with everyone contributing. Mitchell - clearly demonstrating that he's the "new guy" and has a lot to learn about not touching things. And was it just me, or did Daniel sound like Jack at times in this ep?

As far as TFH, damn, I hate cliffhangers! Too many things left to clear up. I did like that

Spoiler:

Gerak wasn't as evil as they've been making him appear before this.

And the way that Orlin was presented worked for me.

On the whole, I thought it was the best Friday night of SG1 in a while - 2 solid hours of good shows, both chock full of SAM!

NC

Not just Sam, funny Sam, leader Sam, scientist Sam, uncomfortable Sam...AND BlueJello!Sam. The only thing lacking was that scene I wrote a week or so ago between Landry and Mitchell. Not sure if I should hold my breath on that either...

[majorsal]

As a woman (I suppose), I really would have liked to see this scene. Normal, everyday girl talk between Sam and Janet never occurred anywhere else in the series. It sucks that it had to go.

i'm glad the scene was omitted... i didn't like the shippy sam/orlin feel to it.


sally

[Agent_Dark]

i'm glad the scene was omitted... i didn't like the shippy sam/orlin feel to it.


sally

Pfft, sif want to delete any scene between our two favourite ladies!

[Uber]

i'm glad the scene was omitted... i didn't like the shippy sam/orlin feel to it.


sally

Aw...come on...the scene with Orlin was funny! The look in her eyes was just priceless...Sam's back, baby...