Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[Lys]

ÜBERBRILLIANT????

Wow...with compliments like that, my PIM levels are likely to skyrocket...

Calm down Über ! Please calm down !

[stargate barbie]

following on the theme of discussing Ascension and i'm not sure how well this one will be recieved, but i thought that sam was starting to see orlin as a little brother type. i think she did see him as being childlike, and was treating him almost like an adult treats a kid with a crush. and parts of it made me think that he was almost becoming her pet ancient or something (in terms of how he was written). she was "fond" of him, like one is "fond" of a puppy or something.

i never really saw potential for a relationship between them, because while sam did like him a lot, it wasn't like that. he was totally boweled over by her, because lets face it, its SAM here, how could anyone not be. she's fantastic. and i think he interpreted that as being in love, when it was actually a different kind of love. like the way we love her. i don't think he knew how to deal with it, or how to accurately interpret it. and sam is a tad dense in terms of the opposite sex too. so they were inevitably going to have a very complicated, albeit close and caring, relationship.

i never thought that there was much potential in the way of a sexual relationship though. although he was very cute, and the actor is slightly on they yummy side.

[stargate barbie]

ooh, and in terms of how sam would have treated the guys after Ascension,
i think she probably would have reminded them all of a certain Urgo incident, let them have a good think about what they'd done, and then forgive them, cos she's way too nice to hold a grudge. personally i think they deserved a bum kicking, but then i'm nowhere near as nice as sam.

[NearlyCircular]

I'm sorry, so what you're saying is that if, and I stress IF, Orlin is pure of heart, and if he really, really likes her, and if Sam wants an emotionally available man, alien, whatever, then it's all OK? His behavior is all right so long as he's a really good person? I don't agree that because a person is good that it excuses any bad, wrong, or abusive action they take. There are many men who beat their wives but love them nonetheless. Does that excuse their violence?

And whether or not Sam did see Orlin as pure and good (whether he is or not) it still doesn't change what he's done. You seem to be justifying Orlin's actions with your own personal beliefs about women and what they're looking for in relationships. While that's OK, I'm trying to justify it from what I've seen established as Sam Carter's personal beliefs about what she wants from a relationship.

I'm telling you, if I found a woman attractive, followed her home, stayed in her house all night, and then jumped her in the morning by professing my undying love for her I would end up in jail. Period. That's not cute, it's criminal. And it's criminal whether he's an alien or not.

The fact is that after he followed her home, stayed in her house all night and then professed his undying love for her, she did try to turn him in, but got nowhere because he was able to disappear. Whe he reappeared after the cameras were gone(or most of them anyway), she was still angry at him and confronted him. To me that was perfectly in chararcter for Sam. After all that, she did the shimmery sharing thing with him and what she discovered must have been enough to convince her that he was not out to harm her or the earth. We don't know what he showed her, but Sam, being a scientist as well as a woman, believed the evidence as presented to her, so she was still in character. And if it meant that this hot guy was in love with her, hey, what's a girl to do?

NC

[Uber]

Über, I like your video, and, if it wasn't thanx to your website which, I'm sure gonna get flooded with visitors, I'd still think you were male, I'm sorry plz don't ZAT, Shoot, kill me!

I like Stargate Music Videos in General.

Sorry to disappoint. All full-blooded American female here. Heterosexual too, btw, in case that's what you're trying to figure out.

I appreciate Amanda because she's a delightful human being...funny, charming, gracious...and she portrays my favorite TV heroine...Samantha Carter.

I'm not blind though...Amanda is clearly a very attractive person so I know a lot of people from either gender have a crush on her or are attracted to her in "that" way.

Just not me.

[Lys]

Soooo, I lasted, what? Less than 48 hours?
This is harder than staying away from chocolate.
Ok, so I didn't wait a week, but I've made my decision, and I'm coming back. I was watching stargate the other night, and found, that if I can't watch my favourite tv show without thinking about the forum and everything else assosciated with it, then I'm in trouble.
Running away seems awfully cowardly. I know I can be stronger than this. Just sometimes I am lazy and take the easy road out. Not this time.
However the last thing I want to do is go into battle. One thing I promised myself I wouldn't do is reply to any of the bad PM's, or to go to the mods (and that's nothing against you sky). And it's not just that grassing will probably cause more trouble than good, it's that in this case, I seriously don't think it's worth it. I haven't had any trouble the past few days, and I'm surprised at myself for not discovering the 'ignore' option sooner. Hoping things will stay like this.
Meanwhile, I want to apologise for being a bit moody the past weeks. I've felt a little like a tightly strung fenceline, trying not to let the cattle stampede through. As a result, I've been a little snappy. I want to particularly apologise to Qas, who I kind of scolded, even if it wasn't seriously, about wanting to start a favourite Sam hairstyle poll. That was very awful of me, and under normal circumstances I wouldn't have. I don't even disaprove of discussing Sam's hair, it just seemed a little strange to follow straight on from two serious discussion posts. If it had been in amongst other general discussion I wouldn't have even mentioned it. I'm not trying to make excuses, just attempting to say sorry, because I promised myself that I'd never publicly put down any post by a Samandan, and Qasim certainly didn't deserve it. And apologies to anyone else who I may have offended without even realising it.
I've got a free weekend, and I figured that I really couldn't waste it completely without coming to Samanda. So stuff that stupid one week deal that I made, ok?

((((((((deepspace)))))))
I'm so glad you decided to join us again.
Samanda wouldn't have been the same without you.
Let's celebrate deepspace return.
Blue Jello for everyone, the special one (you know the one I keep in the Royal Pharmacy )

[golfbooy]

Originally Posted by Skydiver:
as to her trusting orlin, well i do think part of that was brought on by their exclusion of her. her friends basically told her to go play in the corner and she's there, fully aware that they're wrong and she's right and i think she had the feeling of 'well screw them, i'll find out all i can and i'll show them'

I agree wholeheartedly with this sentiment. And I never said that I couldn't rationalize her behavior in the episode. What I can't rationalize is the idea among fandom, from both those who support Sam and those who bash Sam, that Orlin and what he did is OK. It seems that because Orlin provides Sam with a link to the Ancients, it doesn't matter what else he does. And also I can't rationalize the idea that Sam and Orlin share some kind of justifiable mutual attraction. Emotional availability is one of the characteristics we've seen Sam walk away from in past dalliances. Narim certainly indicated his in both Pretense and Between Two Fires, yet Sam wanted no part of it. Martouf was clearly emotionally available for Sam, but "Sam" never gravitated towards his advances. It's made clear that any affinity Sam felt for Martouf was a remnant of Jolinar's personality. In fact, Sam's most forward acknowledgement of Martouf's affections was in Summit/Last Stand, after he was no longer available. And that was with Lantash to boot. Talk about indirect. Lastly, there's Pete. And we all know how that turned out for Sam. No, what we've seen from nine seasons of Sam Carter is that she actually loves and is drawn to the most emotionally unavailable character in the franchise.

and i do think that she hung with orlin simply because her friends shut her down and shut her out.

I agree. That's one of my biggest problems with Orlin. She had no choice but to hang out with him. Sure, throughout the episode he repeatedly says that "if nothing develops between us, I'll leave", but he's not checking out real fast, is he? I mean, after a couple weeks, he's become a fixture in her house about which she can do nothing. He's like Urgo, only not so suave and sophisticated, n'est pas?

now jack did redeem himself a bit when he lied to stand up for her in the end

Again, I agree that Jack's support of Sam in whatever way he could is the one redeeming bit for Ascension. Jack, from the beginning, is nothing but concerned for Sam, regardless of whether he believes her claims or not.

Again, I understand that there were mitigating circumstances. Chris Judge was largely unavailable for filming, they were filming a number of episodes in a short period of time, and they felt that they had to fit in the whole Ancient=ascended connection explicitly before the series wrapped up. And I think there was a desire to give someone besides Michael Shanks some role in that story. Still, despite it's general Stargate goodness, Ascension has always come across as an oddly executed episode. I hope they do better with The Fourth Horseman.

[Qasim]

Whats it say on it?

[Uber]

Might I take this moment to highlight the post of a Samandan who stood in the line of fire on "THAT" thread for a moment:

Maybe we should listen to the expert in leadership for that matter. Let's see what our dear Jack O'Neill thinks about who should or shouldn't be on a SG team.

From Lockdown :

VASELOV: General O’Neill. It is an honour to meet you, and may I say an even greater honour to finally serve under your command.
JACK: Wow. That was a load. Who are you?
VASELOV : I am Colonel Alexi Vaselov, sir. I assumed you were expecting my arrival.
JACK : Uh, yeah. Sure. Umm ... yeah, here’s the memo. Right there.
VASELOV: I want you to know, sir, that I personally requested this transfer. After my many years of service with Russian Air Force, I feel confident that I can make a positive contribution to Stargate Command.
JACK: Great!
VASELOV : If I may be so bold, sir, I understand that with your recent appointment as base commander, a position has become available on SG-1. I would of course relish the opportunity to serve on the SGC’s elite team.
JACK : Yes. You and everyone else on this base. Colonel, not gonna happen.
VASELOV: I understand your reluctance, sir. If you look at my record, I think it will satisfy any of your concerns. I have over three thousand flight hours on more than thirty-five types of aircraft and prototypes. In addition, I have been awarded the High Order of Russia, the Gold Star, the ...
JACK: Yes, that’s very impressive. Very. But it’s not gonna get you on SG-1.
VASELOV: Understood. I am of course willing to accept a position on a different team.
JACK: Colonel, until you go through the proper training, you’re not going anywhere near that Gate.
VASELOV: Perhaps I could assume a role as a non-combat observer on one of the exploration units, sir.
JACK: It was nice meeting you. Very nice. You’re dismissed.

So, what does it say ? An impressive resume isn't good enough to get him on any team, let alone leading it. And I'm wondering what's this proper training is.
But basically, I think that Jack says that when you come to the SGC, you have to go back to the bottom and learning everything again. I guess gate travel is so far from what they're doing on the regular military forces that it's understandable.
Draw your own conclusions.

I think the thing that's so funny here is that with regard to leadership, TPTB are being BLINDLY hypocritical. Jack might have been in favor of Cam leading a brand new team of newbies in a time of peace (which is what Jack expected)...but he NEVER EVER would support the idea of a greenhorn leading Sam, Teal'c and Daniel.

Good job Dom! Way to stand for the principles of Samanda in this time of conflict...

I'm sorry I can't green you...CURSE YOU, KEEPERS OF GREEN, YOU NAPOLEONIC POWERMONGERS!!!!!! So I hope the blue jello will do for now...

[the dancer of spaz]

Allright, you've all managed to bring the discussion around to one of my most hated elements in all of Stargate--Orlin. It has always bothered me. Bad idea, poorly executed. He was the precursor to Pete in every way. In fact, would someone mind explaining to me why Orlin gets a free pass on his behavior with regards to Sam while Pete is destined to be forever lambasted? In fact, Orlin's stalkerish, heinously selfish, borderline rapist actions seem to have endeared him to many, many fans. This boggles my mind. Is it because he's an alien? Is it because SPF played him to be so terribly meek and unassuming? Please, enlighten me. I mean, I get it. Orlin's been alone on the planet for hundreds of years. Sam is the first woman he's seen in that time. He's attracted to her. Hell, who isn't. I understand him needing to get some after all that time (if that's what Ancients do). But at what point does this become something other than an assault, something to be praised?

Of course, if I'm being completely honest, all of Ascension is troublesome for the characters. It is an absolutely fantastic episode for Amanda Tapping. She commanded the screen so powerfully and completely that it IS actually conceivable

Spoiler:

that Orlin can be recast later as a child. That's how pathetic Flannery came across when acting with her. Childlike.

But all of the other characters, from Hammond to O'neill to especially Sam herself are completely "off" in this one. There's no way Hammond doesn't let Sam study the planet's advanced technology, especially in favor of the newly transferred Col. Reynolds, who we've only met once before in a small, insignificant scene in Touchstone. There's no way that O'neill doesn't listen to Carter when she says that she's being stalked and harassed (and blackmailed into sharing Orlin's essence) by an alien. There is certainly no way everyone believes that Sam Carter, member of SG-1, person who built the dialing computer, who helped get the SGC up and running, who's been off world countless times, who's been implanted with a Tok'Ra, recently had her body taken over by an alien entity, and had her memories stamped and altered (oh wait, they do mention that in fact, don't they) is dismissed as "crazy". Sorry that's a suspension of disbelief of which I'm not capable.

And, saddest of all, Sam is completely out of character in Ascension. Despite the crazy, nutty happenstance that everyone she knows is treating her differently, there is no way that Sam Carter stops trying to convince others that she's being stalked by an alien. There's no way Sam Carter finds Orlin endearing, cute, or harmless. This is the woman who in Foothold broke out of the SGC, got herself to DC, and contacted Harry Mayborne of all people for help the last time she was seeing aliens that no one else was. I don't get it. Because he looks human and the foothold aliens looked, well, alien, he's trustworthy? Sorry, it's outlandish. I'm telling you, she doesn't like him , she doesn't share her home with him, she doesn't pick him over her friends, and she doesn't acquiesce to his ultimatiums. And after everything is said and done, she certainly doesn't trust him. Well, at least the Sam Carter I keep watching doesn't.

That's my view. Do your worst.

Tell us how you really feel, golfbooy.

Go on. Let it aaaaallll out.

Your passion incites me to bring up an episode that I wish had been different: Desperate Measures.

Why, oh WHY couldn't Sam have gotten a chance to save herself?!!?! We know she's capable of it! And, while the shipper inside me was VERY happy, I couldn't help but be a little irked...

There. I said it. Thanks a lot, golfbooy!!

[Daivy]

Sorry to disappoint. All full-blooded American female here. Heterosexual too, btw, in case that's what you're trying to figure out.

I appreciate Amanda because she's a delightful human being...funny, charming, gracious...and she portrays my favorite TV heroine...Samantha Carter.

I'm not blind though...Amanda is clearly a very attractive person so I know a lot of people from either gender have a crush on her or are attracted to her in "that" way.

Just not me.

Über, I meant that, when I first visited this thread I thought you were male, not female. And yes, I'm also for the woman, and the fact that even lesbiennes think she's nice or good lookin', and also just hetro women, is the evidence of how good lookin', hot, sexy and a great woman she is, and a funny 1 2!

Full Blooded American? Where ya from, Texas, Washington State, Minnesota? DC? Rhode Island, Dare I ask, Georgia, Wyoming, Maryland, Louisiana, Delaware? I thought you were German.

This as far as he knows full blooded Belgian boy is happy to answer on all your questions you possibly wanna ask me

Daivy

[golfbooy]

Originally Posted by NearlyCircular:
After all that, she did the shimmery sharing thing with him and what she discovered must have been enough to convince her that he was not out to harm her or the earth.

Exactly. She did the shimmery bit. But she had no choice in the matter. It was either do this with Orlin, or he'd never leave, never turn himself in, never allow himself to be seen. That's blackmail, essentially, and that certainly doesn't jive with the "not out to harm her" bit you mentioned. The "you'll love me afterwards" sentiment Orlin expresses is downright creepy, and wouldn't endear Sam to him, would land me in serious trouble if I tried it, and wouldn't work on any woman I've ever met.

And if it meant that this hot guy was in love with her, hey, what's a girl to do?

This is what's so aggravating to me. He's hot, so everthing he does is OK. Sam as we know her, the strong, confident woman wouldn't just love someone back because she had little or no choice in the matter. Fifth tried a similar approach in New Order, but was heartily rebuffed by Sam. Perhaps Ancients are hotter than replicators, and thus get a free pass?

Originally Posted by the dancer of spaz:
Your passion incites me to bring up an episode that I wish had been different: Desperate Measures.

Interesting. I would say that the two episodes have a very similar tone and feel to them. I don't see Deperate Measures as the same kind of failure for Sam that Ascension is, though. At least Sam did try all that she could (limited though it was) to save herself. And, in general I don't mind episodes where the only way to save a character in danger is to have the rest of SG-1 help them. That's what should have happened in Ascension. That's what happened in New Order. If I had my druthers, the last scene of Desperate Measures would have been about Sam, not Adrian Conrad's goa'uld.

Meh. I'm done with this issue for now. Dinner, then Stargate. Hopefully after tonight my view of Orlin will be decidedly better.

[Lys]

Whats it say on it?

Caeruleum Liquamen is Latin for Blue Jello. Me being the Royal Pharmacist likes to use this special kind of blue jello.

[Uber]

Über, I meant that, when I first visited this thread I thought you were male, not female. And yes, I'm also for the woman, and the fact that even lesbiennes think she's nice or good lookin', and also just hetro women, is the evidence of how good lookin', hot, sexy and a great woman she is, and a funny 1 2!

Full Blooded American? Where ya from, Texas, Washington State, Minnesota? DC? Rhode Island, Dare I ask, Georgia, Wyoming, Maryland, Louisiana, Delaware? I thought you were German.

This as far as he knows full blooded Belgian boy is happy to answer on all your questions you possibly wanna ask me

Daivy

Well I'm located in the Volunteer State...the great state of Tennessee. I know there are a lot of American women on this thread and women throughout the world who admire Amanda for her generosity of spirit and gracious heart...

[Qasim]

Caeruleum Liquamen is Latin for Blue Jello. Me being the Royal Pharmacist likes to use this special kind of blue jello.

Thanks