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    Originally posted by ChopinGal
    Okay ... clunk, clunk ... I'm stepping down from my soapbox.
    Originally posted by ForeverSg1
    ACK! Stepping down from my soapbox. I appreciate if you managed to stick with me this far. Kat
    I dont' know; I always want to cheer when you all get up on your soapboxes.

    My LJ

    Comment


      Sorry I haven't had much to add to your discussions of late. I have read them all, and as usual, they are very insightful and usually dead on. I guess right now I'm feeling kinda left out. Sort a feel like I'm in a club, but not really.

      Ignore me...bad day.

      Just thought I'd post a pic of AT, as I can never get enough of her smile....
      On fighting:
      Farrah: "A swordsman does not fear death, if he dies with honor."
      Dr. Who: "Then he's an idiot."

      Comment


        Originally posted by the dancer of spaz
        Ooooooh boy...

        I see what you guys are talking about now with that article. Yipes. That's one scary review. No bueno.
        Being somewhat dense sometimes, can someone point me at the link to this review, because I can't seem to find it. Many thanks in advance!

        My LJ

        Comment


          I just finished reading a very dark Sam fic that I'd really recommend to anyone who enjoys seeing a very different side of Sam. It's called Cauterized People by ALC Punk. A bit of warning though: It's a very dark, sexual, S/J shippy (though not in a sweet or loveable kind of way) fic. It also contains issues regarding rape, abortion and torture, as well as shows a tough, in your face Sam we don't normally get to see. Believe me, you'll have to read it to understand what I'm talking about.

          http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2247988/2/

          Comment


            Originally posted by Agent_Dark
            Oooo, perhaps a link would be in order...
            I'l try to get it to you guys tonight, AD, unless someone finds it before me! It's nominated for an award this year, though. If you have the link to that site, you should be able to find it.

            Note: Pete (or ) is not shown in the best light. In fact, he acts like a moe.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Historian
              I actually found that she was really relaxed and confident in her relation with Jack in season 8. Zero Hour, when he says Teal'c described as a lionness, or whatever. Avatar, Citizen Joe.
              Guess we have different views of relaxed and confident. In these particular situations, yes they seemed to do ok, but there have been many, many times where the tension between them has been very thick in my opinion. Granted I know many people loved these moments. Don't get me wrong I like a bit of angst every now and then, but I just kept feeling more and more sorry for both characters.

              At least in the beginning seasons, Jack used a lot of humour to deal with the tension, in later seasons it just seemed to be drawn out to the point that I felt almost embarrassed. Granted RDA/AT played the parts remarkably well, but I definitely wouldn't have wanted to be in those situations.

              The elevator scene in Chimera...not comfortable. The scene at Jack's house in Lost City...not comfortable. The lab scene in Affinity...again not comfortable. The scene at Jack's house in Threads...extremely uncomfortable.

              I know I'm a very bad shipper, probably the reason I don't really consider myself one. I thoroughly believe they have chemistry and could see they care for one another a great deal, but I just don't think the writers did a very good job at handling the situation and if I were the writer I would have changed a lot of it.
              Last edited by ForeverSg1; 14 July 2005, 12:40 PM.

              Comment


                Originally posted by majorsal
                let's play a game.
                let's pretend that we've been writing stargate since the beginning. how would 'we' have written sam in all these years?

                i would have made more of a deal of sam having jolinar's memories. that would be an aspect i would have continued from the get-go after 'in the line of duty'. not make her super human, just use those skill and memories more often.
                Originally posted by majorsal
                i would have retired jack 'from sg1' way before now, with sam taking command.

                i can so *see* all of this happening, with sam coming off as a competent and accomplished scientist and soldier. all the unease and uncertainty in her private life wouldn't have been.
                Originally posted by the dancer of spaz
                Ummm... I would have explored Sam's Tok'ra issues beyond S4, yes... Definitely would have shown her use more Goa'uld tech, and maybe even to the dark side with it as evidenced in the fanfiction story, "Hostage Situation."
                Originally posted by the dancer of spaz
                I would have explored AUs WAAAAAAAAY more
                Originally posted by Agent_Dark
                Yep, definately would of had the Jolinar story arc explored more. I remember going back and watching a sesaon3 episode the other day and was like 'OMG they're talking about Jolinar
                Originally posted by Agent_Dark
                Would have explored her friendship with Janet and Cassie a bit more.

                And would of had more Sam!Whumping
                Originally posted by Tok'Ra Hostess
                Ooh! Good idea, MajorSal. I'm gonna make my comments before reading on. It should be interesting to compare notes.

                1) Since Sam is supposed to be this adrenaline junkie, I'd have shown that side of her more (IMO, I haven't really seen AJ Sam). In COTG I'd have had her crouching with a wide-eyed wild look, barely able to keep from screaming "that was fantastic!" all the while looking around her, trying to soak it all in. Instead we got "I think I'm gonna be sick." Bleh.

                In other eps I would have included a file shot of somebody in black bike leathers popping a wheelie on some country road - maybe something taken from the air.

                In Watergate, I'd have shown her getting jazzed about jumping out of a plane, much to Teal'c's consternation. Little things like that would have gone a long way to developing that aspect of her character.

                2) Jolinar - her memories, legacy, abilities, the whole nine yards. I don't mind at all that Sam is not very good with the devices, but I'd have made sure we all knew why.

                3) Linea and Replicarter - Sam would have had to deal with both these characters and with her own foul-ups with regard to how she handled herself around them their first time around.

                4) I would have let Sam deal with the repercussions of her job - that of killing others. I would have let her cry, get angry, kick walls and furniture, snap at her teammates, basicly, work it out without sacrificing her strengths.
                Originally posted by ForeverSg1
                As much as I liked parts of the whole 'ship' issue, I have to agree knowing what I know now... I would have rather they dropped the entire issue or not brought it up at all. I didn't mind the references up until D&C, it was actually quite fun to watch. A little flirting, smiles, joking... but they were all still a big happy family. I think I started to sour on the entire situation when it became so angsty and Sam/Jack stopped having that easy casual relationship.

                Things I would have definitely changed if I were the writers?

                More storylines dealing with what Jolinar left behind...memories good and bad, abilities to manipulate gou'ald devices more, ect.

                More storyline issues dealing with her friendship with the team. I would have loved to see stories like Abyss, Tangent, or Changeling where it was Sam/Daniel, Sam/Teal'c, Sam/Janet, Sam/Jack ( as friends ). I really would have loved to have seen more episodes with the team together outside of work like Lost City perhaps as B stories to an episode.

                But overall I just want more kick-ass Sam. I guess I'm different in that I don't necessarily need to see her as the leader. I really liked Sam just as she was before she took over command of SG-1. However, I for one never saw Sam as SuperSam before season 7. I simply saw her as a strong, intelligent and competent officer who was equal to her male counterparts. I think much of the issues with Sam began when the writers started to listen to the many critics who saw Sam as too perfect and tried to add character flaws.

                I never saw Sam as being perfect, nor did I see what she had accomplished in life as completely inconceivable. In every walk of life there are people who excel in many different areas. I have known many people who not only sang beautifully but were wonderful dancers as well. I've know people who were not only good in football but baseball, soccer and swimming. Why is so hard to believe that someone like Sam could excel as she has without being a Superwoman?

                I have had many friends who have had multiple doctorates. One of them told me once that once you acquired your first PHD that the others were a breeze. One has three different doctorate degrees. It's not like people like Sam don't exists, it's just that they are not the norm so they appear to be superhuman in some ways.

                Daniel is considered a genius as well. I mean the man speaks over 23 languages. Does noone else consider this to be a remarkable feat? I know of linguists who speak eight or nine different languages, but 23? But I do not believe this makes Daniel perfect, or an unrealistic character.

                I apologize for rambling but I guess more than anything if it were up to me, I wouldn't feel the need to show any of these characters as weak, or flawed in any other way than they did in the first three seasons. I like believing that these people are special. Science Fiction and Fantasy stories for me have always been a means to escape reality and to see life in a 'what if' situation. I read/watch these types of stories and shows because I enjoy dreaming of what it would be like if I were living through some of their extraordinary circumstances. I like seeing the characters as heroes, going above and beyond the norm to save the world. It's fun to see them as human, but why can't it be in a positive light? We already know they experience loses like the rest of us. Sam lost her mom. Daniel lost his parents and wife. Teal'c lost his wife and girlfriend. Jack lost his son. Life is not perfect for them, and yet they continue to go on. It is these types of issues that draw me closer to them. The ones that show them deal with personal issues and yet show them where they persevere and become stronger. I think this is where the writers faltered with Sam over the past two years. They tried to show us her weaknesses and allow us to see all the fissures within her psyche, but they didn't allow us to see her fight these battels and triumph over them. We weren't allowed to see her actually battle these demons and become stronger in the end. Had they done this better, then I think I would have accepted the changes in Sam much more easily.

                ACK! Stepping down from my soapbox. I appreciate if you managed to stick with me this far.
                Originally posted by Strix varia
                I always want to cheer when you all get up on your soapboxes.
                What wonderful and thoughtful responses! Great topic for discussion, MajorSal!

                If I was writing/creating the seasons over, I'd

                1) Show more of Sam's Adrenaline Junkie side - I'd show Carter in the front seat of an X-302 and I have her do something spectacular, dangerous and heroic while flying. I'd also just show her having fun while flying. I like TH's idea of a shot (with a stunt double for AT) of Carter having fun on her motorcycle. Also liked TH's idea of showing Sam as gunho about skydiving in Watergate.

                2) Feature more of Carter's talent to understand the mind-blowing astrophysical phenomena - as well as her love of it (as with Grace's Kid in a Candy Store). I'd take Carter's ability to conceptualize and then implement to the next level and show how she can bridge and/or synthesize vastly different alien technologies. I'd have Carter invent something new - something that uses elements of the technologies from several different alien worlds...e.g., melding Asgard, Ancient, Tollan and Goa'uld technologies and inventing something beyond what any of them had by themselves... something that would make the Asgard go 'whoa!... that's *not* a dumb idea! And, by the way... How does that work?'

                3) I'd make more use of Jolinar's legacy - both the memories and the abilities to use Goa'uld tech. I love the idea that Sam would have to deal with (fix) a problem that Jolinar created. Would also have liked to have seen Sam struggle with making the Goa'uld tech work - struggle, but not give up. Another good episode plot would have been for SG-1 to travel to a world where Goa'ulds can't exist (say there's a virus deadly to Goa'ulds or some such there).. and Carter gets gravely ill.

                4) I'd have done one of two things with the S/J ship: I'd have either nixed it entirely - say by having Jack or Sam either already be married, or get married early in the series (to someone other than each other). OR, if J/S ship was to happen and be viable, I would have removed the chain of command issue by moving Carter to head SG-2 -- and then having lots of joint missions.... Or have O'Neill retire and become a civilian advisor and/or ambassador to alien cultures such as the Asgard. I would have had Sam become more of Jack's equal so that they would have a chance at a healthy relationship. And, I would have made sure that they dealt with Jack and Sam equally in terms of showing their struggles with that portion of their lives outside of the SGC (instead of concentrating on Sam's and essentially leaving Jack out of it for the last couple of seasons).

                5) I'd have had Carter rescue the guys a few times... All out 'Save The Day' scenes like O'Neill had in Desperate Measures where he saves helpless Sam from certain death... or where O'Neill swooped in and saved the day in Avenger 2.0... I'd have had O'Neill get trussed up by Corso in Forsaken and then have Carter have to deal/negotiate his release while he had to sit helplessly in the dirt.

                6) I'd have had Carter take out the SuperSoldier in Death Knell.

                7) I'd have had a Carter vs. Replicarter showdown where Sam outsmarts RC.

                8) Thor would not beam Sam off of his ship in Reckoning before Carter had a chance to do some serious damage to the infiltrating replicators!

                9) More small comments about life outside the weekly SGC crises - for all of the team members - instead of the soap-opera arc for Sam in the past couple of seasons.

                10) More 'Team Heroics' - where the entire team is integral to the success of the mission... where the entire team is in the same room as they save the day... where the special attributes of each member is absolutely necessary to their success. I would have had all 4 members of SG-1 'go Ancient' in Lost City.

                Hmmm... I could continue, but I'll restrain myself and let others chime in before I add to my list.
                Last edited by astrogeologist; 14 July 2005, 12:58 PM.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Strix varia
                  Being somewhat dense sometimes, can someone point me at the link to this review, because I can't seem to find it. Many thanks in advance!
                  I think this is the link that folks are talking about
                  http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=13996

                  Comment


                    If I could write Sam over past seasons...I'd've made her a bit wilder. Someone as (mostly) straightlaced and driven has to have a hidden facet, and I wish the show had played with that more. Make her more exhilerated, riding an adrenaline high in any number of situations. Explore her stronger qualities (humor, optimism, smarts) without making her Sammie the Wonder Horse. Mention going bungie jumping, more with the motorcycle, a childhood involving blowing up the furnace while doing an experiment. Now that RDA's leaving, I hope she'll get a few of the sarcastic/caustic comments. More than anything, allow her to grow. In a different direction than in S8.

                    Oh, and...

                    TPTB are evidently getting insistent with the USS Jack-N-Sam, which is fine as long as they do it right. Ixnay the piney stuff. The first part of the fic The Treaty of Guinness [and minors beware, the second part's just smut] illustrates a sort-of version of what I wish TPTB would do. More along the lines of 'friends with benefits' than 'star-crossed lovers'. 'Cause I've been looking for three years now, and still don't see anyone risking a career over a crush.

                    You can make a character real and keep her strong, I guess is what I'm saying. And TPTB have a good start, but they seem to be good at shooting themselves in the foot just when they're getting somewhere.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by astrogeologist
                      I think this is the link that folks are talking about
                      http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=13996
                      Thanks, Astro. I was looking for it on the main GW page, rather than in the forums.

                      I'm not inclined to take this review too seriously. I get the impression that the reviewer isn't too familiar with the show, so his (? I don't think I read the byline) perpective on it may be really off in left field compared to those of us who have been fans for a while. And, while I have enjoyed BSG and think it is an outstanding, quality show, I find it terribly dark, sometimes too dark to really "love" in the same way I love SG-1. When the reviewer criticises SG-1 for being too light-hearted and instead strongly recommends BSG... well, I just think we must have different tastes...

                      My LJ

                      Comment


                        The Royal Reporter has another mainstream press article for the Kingdom's review. This was posted today on the TV section of comcast.net:http://www.comcast.net/tv/

                        I tried to post the link directly to the article, but it wouldn't work once I posted it. So, once you arrive on the TV page, click the arrows just under the photos to go to the Sci-Fi coverage. Here's an excerpt from the article. Right before this picks up, the writer mentions that John Crichton named his Farscape gun Winona.

                        "Privately. I may have named my weapon," he says, "but that's a John Crichton thing. Crichton is the man who names every inanimate object he can get his hands on. That was his way of making the world less alien and more personal."

                        While replacing Anderson is a daunting task, Browder feels he's up to it. "Interestingly enough," he says, "I was given a hat the other day that said 'O'Neill' in it. It fit OK. I don't know what that says. As they handed me the hat, and it said 'O'Neill,' I thought, 'I don't know how I feel about this. Ah, it's good. I'll wear it.'"

                        "But you know what? No one is ever going to replace RDA, what he meant to the show and to the franchise. He came up and shot a couple scenes, so I got to see him in his natural environment."


                        Underneath the headline for this article is another link that says, "Stargate SG-1 News." I clicked on it with anticipation. Ha! It took me to the Gateworld home page!
                        Last edited by sg-1fanintn; 14 July 2005, 02:01 PM.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by ForeverSg1
                          Guess we have different views of relaxed and confident. In these particular situations, yes they seemed to do ok, but there have been many, many times where the tension between them has been very thick in my opinion. Granted I know many people loved these moments. Don't get me wrong I like a bit of angst every now and then, but I just kept feeling more and more sorry for both characters.

                          At least in the beginning seasons, Jack used a lot of humour to deal with the tension, in later seasons it just seemed to be drawn out to the point that I felt almost embarrassed. Granted RDA/AT played the parts remarkably well, but I definitely wouldn't have wanted to be in those situations.

                          The elevator scene in Chimera...not comfortable. The scene at Jack's house in Lost City...not comfortable. The lab scene in Affinity...again not comfortable. The scene at Jack's house in Threads...extremely uncomfortable.

                          I know I'm a very bad shipper, probably the reason I don't really consider myself one. I thoroughly believe they have chemistry and could see they care for one another a great deal, but I just don't think the writers did a very good job at handling the situation and if I were the writer I would have changed a lot of it.
                          I know what you're saying Forever. I'm a shipper, but I believe that this aspect of the series really did seem to be forced onto the two characters. Moments like the ones in "Solitudes" were great. That stuff was shippy (to me), and yet it looked natural.

                          Everything from S7 and beyond was seriously an odd way for TPTB to make something that had turned into fanon come off as forcibly canon. I felt sorry for the Sam and Jack fans who were not shippers (and even for the fans who were), because I think I've read fanfiction that had both characters more at ease with each other than all of S7 and S8 (with the exception of the ending of "Threads" and "Moebius Parts I and II") combined.

                          I still love ship, and I like what happened, but these moments you mentioned, Forever, are classic examples of what happens when TPTB of shows take it one step too far, unfortunately.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by ForeverSg1
                            Guess we have different views of relaxed and confident. In these particular situations, yes they seemed to do ok, but there have been many, many times where the tension between them has been very thick in my opinion. Granted I know many people loved these moments. Don't get me wrong I like a bit of angst every now and then, but I just kept feeling more and more sorry for both characters.
                            Ok, maybe not relaxed and confident. Having fun, feeling serene ? Never was good with words. Just friends ?

                            The elevator scene in Chimera...not comfortable. The scene at Jack's house in Lost City...not comfortable. The lab scene in Affinity...again not comfortable. The scene at Jack's house in Threads...extremely uncomfortable.
                            OH! had forgot about those. Yep! not comfortable at all. I must say that AT's choice of humming tune distracted me alot
                            sigpic
                            There are only two things to worry about: either you are well or you are sick.
                            If you are well, then there is nothing to worry about: but if you are sick; there are two things for you to worry about: either you get well, or you die.
                            If you get well, then there is nothing to worry about. If you die: then there are two things to worry about: either you go up or down.
                            If you go up, then there is nothing to worry about. But if you go down, you will be so busy shaking hands with old friends you wont have time to worry.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Historian
                              OH! had forgot about those. Yep! not comfortable at all. I must say that AT's choice of humming tune distracted me alot
                              Yeah! The nerve? Wasn't she singing Star Trek: Enterprise's theme song or something? Sheesh...

                              BTW, I love their opening credits for some reason. I NEVER liked Star Trek, but I appreciate the longevity the franchise had, and it was neat that they arranged the opening credits that way with the "I've Got Faith" song.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by the dancer of spaz
                                I know what you're saying Forever. I'm a shipper, but I believe that this aspect of the series really did seem to be forced onto the two characters. Moments like the ones in "Solitudes" were great. That stuff was shippy (to me), and yet it looked natural.

                                Everything from S7 and beyond was seriously an odd way for TPTB to make something that had turned into fanon come off as forcibly canon. I felt sorry for the Sam and Jack fans who were not shippers (and even for the fans who were), because I think I've read fanfiction that had both characters more at ease with each other than all of S7 and S8 (with the exception of the ending of "Threads" and "Moebius Parts I and II") combined.

                                I still love ship, and I like what happened, but these moments you mentioned, Forever, are classic examples of what happens when TPTB of shows take it one step too far, unfortunately.
                                I agree. Being a non shipper, I enjoyed Jack and Sam relationship in Solitudes because, like you said, it was natural. In fact I enjoyed the fun and light ship and flirting we had in the first seasons. But as soon as it was forced down our throats, I really turned my back and ran away.
                                I missed litlle comments such as the "little tank top" one in Broca Devide. That was fun and I understand how the shippers could be pleased with those scenes and it wasn't hard for the non-shippers. Much better than those uncomfortable scenes we had the last two seasons, in my opinion.
                                Kingdom of Samanda : Hic Comitas Regit


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