Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[tagger]

OK, I'm so out of it, I only just now read the article I guess everyone is talking about - now I understand what is going on.

Spoiler:

Now I get why some Atlantis fans are upset. Hard. But why blame a character for a production decision?

Amanda was very respectful of the situation, as usual.

I also thought it was interesting that AT considered not moving over to Atlantis because of character stasis - no growth as an actress. As she considered it more, she realized Carter would grow as a character - many new interactions and situations, new responsibilities - and as Carter changed, she would grow as an actress. Amanda also reiterated how wonderful the Atlantis cast and crew is to work with.

YAY!! I'm happy for her! So many new opportunities for AT!!

Enjoyed the remix, rderoch!

[JenniferJF]

But, I can't seem to remember a distinct moment when Sam was given SG1s' leadership position after O'Neill was promoted. I guessed she was leader by default rather than a supervisors' decision to officially promote her. Then, as soon as a "better" applicant showed up (per Landry), she was bumped out of the position...

They mentioned, in that same scene, that Sam had left SG-1 for command of Area 51's science division. Which is certainly a bigger command than SG-1, and which seemed to be by her choice. So I don't think she was 'bumped', she had just moved on in her career to a bigger command, and almost certainly, IMHO, took the opportunity of having 'won' the wars against the Goa'uld and the replicators as her chance to stop sleeping on the ground and carrying a heavy ruck on her back...

I also got the sense she didnt particularly want to come back. This is supported by: (spoilers for SGA S4):

Spoiler:

so what do you think's the better gig; command/co-command of sg1 or commanding atlantis? (i can't even judge since i don't know atlantis)

Atlantis is certainly, no doubt about it, a bigger command than SG-1. The 'sg teams' fall under units like Atlantis. Probably more closely related to the command she'd had at Area 51, only probably slightly bigger. It seems she takes that position shortly after defeating the Ori, which makes sense since she was only back on SG-1 because of the Ori threat in the first place. Sam had already 'completed her block' of time in command of an SG sized unit and the fact she'd been positionally promoted to command Area 51's science division proves the Air Force thought that as well. Forcing her to officially take command of an SG team again would have been a terrible blow to her career, and I personally am glad it didn't happen, and that she's clearly almost immediately moving back up to the kind of command she deserves. Now that Cam no longer needs her holding his hand

I know, the Stargate universe isn't the real universe, but it really does make sense to me....

[tagger]

They mentioned, in that same scene, that Sam had left SG-1 for command of Area 51's science division. Which is certainly a bigger command than SG-1, and which seemed to be by her choice. So I don't think she was 'bumped', she had just moved on in her career to a bigger command, and almost certainly, IMHO, took the opportunity of having 'won' the wars against the Goa'uld and the replicators as her chance to stop sleeping on the ground and carrying a heavy ruck on her back...

I also got the sense she didnt particularly want to come back. This is supported by: (spoilers for SGA S4):

Spoiler:

Atlantis is certainly, no doubt about it, a bigger command than SG-1. The 'sg teams' fall under units like Atlantis. Probably more closely related to the command she'd had at Area 51, only probably slightly bigger. It seems she takes that position shortly after defeating the Ori, which makes sense since she was only back on SG-1 because of the Ori threat in the first place. Sam had already 'completed her block' of time in command of an SG sized unit and the fact she'd been positionally promoted to command Area 51's science division proves the Air Force thought that as well. Forcing her to officially take command of an SG team again would have been a terrible blow to her career, and I personally am glad it didn't happen, and that she's clearly almost immediately moving back up to the kind of command she deserves. Now that Cam no longer needs her holding his hand
I know, the Stargate universe isn't the real universe, but it really does make sense to me....

Woohoo! That scenario makes me much happier.

I never thought of that.

Makes sense from a professional standpoint - next time we watch that episode, I will watch with that in mind, up until now, the scene with Landry used to tick me off since I interpreted it a Sam being passed over.

[the dancer of spaz]

I disagree completely. While it would be nice to get away from frat boy humor, they don't need to go darkside to do it. One of the reasons I prefer Stargate over BSG is because BSG goes out of its way to be dark and gloomy, and I'm often not in the mood for that. I'll take the first 8 seasons of Stargate over BSG any time.

I'm so confused about the spoiler issue these days, so...

Spoiler:

They don't need to go darkside to get away from the frat boy humor, but I do think this is the time to do it if they are. For one thing, subtle humor doesn't seem to work anymore - whether it's for the writers or the network or the focus groups - so I think that the obvious flip side of "happy-go-lucky"-Gate, which has been SG's reputation since long before RDA left the franchise is what they were going for this season.

It would seem to me that this is their last chance to salvage Atlantis, and that they're doing everything they can to make it stand out and be different from past seasons. The table read throughs, for example, for the first few episodes still surprise me - it's pretty time consuming for a television series. AFAIK, TV series don't normally do them on a regular or semi-regular basis.

Mallozzi has emphasized that this will be a much different direction and tone than past seasons of Atlantis, and if that's true the changes to the cast and to the production staff, as well as the elimination of SG-1 as a sturdy lead-in were probably all the cause for that. They needed to shake it up some how, make it stand out and break away from the tried and true Stargate model. Even S9, for all of its "third series" qualities, was the same old thing.

If they can pull off "dark", without it looking forced, gloomy or hokey, then I think they might be onto something that totally works for the series.

[NZNeep]

SGA 4:

I don't know about dark... a part from the different style of humour in Atlantis, it has always been a bit darker in a way. Just take a look at a list of episode names... *shudder*

Spoiler:

I know that last year I got nightmares that related very closely to the Atlantis eps I had been watching. They didn't cause the nightmares, no way, but when I was grieving/stressed for other reasons, my nightmares took on the distinct feeling of being hunted that I associate with some of those eps. I have never associated a nightmare with SG1.


And just like most fans, I will really miss Weir (and Torri!) but I'm so happy for Sam (and Amanda!) And I understand that Torri leaving had nothing to do with Amanda joining.

*ETA* I have absolutely nothing against SGA! In fact, I watched the first 2 season of SGA and loved it so much that I finally went back and watched *all* of this "SG1" show my friend had been bugging me about forever.


Yay! 800 posts! I wouldn't mention it, but I missed my 700th

[Rachel500]

asking this as someone's that never watched an ep of atlantis, and knowing that some might feel weir did bad while others love her totally... what's to say they don't write sam the way you say they messed up with weir?

sally

I actually think they did a good job in SGA S1 of balancing the characters, creating some natural conflict areas between the various team members and produced some good storylines. The best story/episode for me of S1 was Weir-centric - Before I Sleep. Wonderful, wonderful story for Weir and very well-acted by Torri. Of all the characters, FORD was the one most under-used and the one where it seemed to me they had failed to fully find their feet in how to use him, who he was, what his role within the team was really meant to be.

I think where it all went wrong for Weir as a character was in S2, which was hugely unbalanced character-wise, and also suffered because of three decisions (whether intentional or not); one, to reconnect Atlantis with Earth in the S1 season finale; two, the Wraith retro-virus arc, and three, to shift the military/civilian conflict between Sheppard and Weir to Caldwell and Weir.

Rest in spoilers as I'm referring to S2, S3 and S4...and SG1 9 and 10 (mild spoilers only)

Spoiler:

The first decision, given the threat of the Wraith, made leaving Weir, a civilian, in command on somewhat dodgy ground. They got round it brilliantly by Weir effectively ending up in command during the final battle and them all coming up with the ruse to make the Wraith think Atlantis was destroyed. Weir rightly kept the command because the threat of the Wraith was effectively downgraded as long as they believed Atlantis was destroyed. But, it did put Weir in a strange place as a civilian commander; the more threats that Atlantis has to respond to militarily the less likely it is that you're going to keep a civilian, no matter how good you think her leadership is, in charge...while they touched on this at the beginning of S3 really it was unbelivable that Weir retained command after the debacle with the Wraith almost invading Earth and with the discovery of the Asurans.

Equally, the more threats Atlantis has to respond to the more challenging it is to come up with a truthful way of writing how this civilian character would respond to those situations when her own natural inclination is diplomacy not military action...which is why the second decision to have the entire Wraith retro-virus arc did Weir's character a complete disservice. Torri herself complained to the writers that she didn't think some of the decisions Weir was making was in character for Weir (she mentioned it in a GW article a while back). IMO, it was out of character for Weir and the writers wrote for the arc and hoped they could get away with fudging the fact Weir as a character would never have gone down that road.

They compounded that by removing any sign of conflict between her and Shep for the most part. Really that whole arc should have played out like the events in S3's First Strike where you have the military making a decision that Weir would naturally baulk against but being overruled. Quite honestly, I think they really wrote themselves into a corner with Weir as a commander in S2 and I think they've been struggling to know how to get themselves out of it since. Ultimately, and sadly, it looks like they've taken the easy option in some respects of saying 'let's just not have Weir as leader anymore.'

To bring this back on topic, I think they are unlikely to make the same mistake with Sam simply because the set-up is now different; Sam is military and better suited to a command where you're going to have to come up with military solutions to respond to the very real threats you're facing. Yet there is some good room for conflict; Sam's competing/uncomfortable relationship with McKay is a well-established dynamic and the writers enjoy writing for it. Equally, I think they'll be able to set-up some good conflict with Shep who will for the first time have someone who has effectively done his very job in charge of him. There is a lot of meaty stuff for the character that they can play with in that respect. I also do think that they have learned to some degree from the mistakes of S9 with SG1 whether TPTB admit it or not (S10 shows that) - hence why I think having made the decision on Weir, they went for Sam as the replacement rather than either Caldwell or the new guy, Ellis, both of whom must have been contenders.

So, I don't think they'll make the same mistake with Sam as they did with Weir. This, of course, doesn't mean that they'll not make completely new mistakes with Sam.

I'm encouraged though that JM and PM seem to have enormous respect for AT and that they have brought back the read-throughs where the actors have the opportunity to feedback on the scripts on issues get ironed out before filming.

[scifithinker]

Ok it isn't really a fic but a drabble but I liked it. It is Sam/Janet and Cassie...it is set after Heroes 2 though.
http://samkelly1966.livejournal.com/530.html

While we are at it...Does anyone else have little short drabbles at the moment I really am enjoying them So if anyone knows any good ones feel free to post

The best drabble I have ever read is called "When the Solitaires" by Nanda.

http://nandamai.net/fic/?p=70

It's Sam/Jack and sexual in nature.

On the whole, Nanda writes very good stuff.

[scifithinker]

Spoiler:

Atlantis is certainly, no doubt about it, a bigger command than SG-1. The 'sg teams' fall under units like Atlantis. Probably more closely related to the command she'd had at Area 51, only probably slightly bigger. It seems she takes that position shortly after defeating the Ori, which makes sense since she was only back on SG-1 because of the Ori threat in the first place. Sam had already 'completed her block' of time in command of an SG sized unit and the fact she'd been positionally promoted to command Area 51's science division proves the Air Force thought that as well. Forcing her to officially take command of an SG team again would have been a terrible blow to her career, and I personally am glad it didn't happen, and that she's clearly almost immediately moving back up to the kind of command she deserves. Now that Cam no longer needs her holding his hand

It was a far greater blow to her career not to give her command of SG-1 in season nine. She went from having a sizable command to being a subordinate in her prior command. While she wasn't demoted in rank, it would have been seen as a vote of no confidence.

[JenniferJF]

It was a far greater blow to her career not to give her command of SG-1 in season nine. She went from having a sizable command to being a subordinate in her prior command. While she wasn't demoted in rank, it would have been seen as a vote of no confidence.

Only, on the show and in canon, it's never clear why she's back. Not being involved in fandom, I assumed she was just temporarily assigned back because of the Ori. That's how I interpreted the scene with Landry and Jack on the phone. It wasn't a formal transfer back, but she was temporarily assigned as an advisor - which happens. There's nothing On The Show to say otherwise. This is actually why I don't think she was put back in command of SG-1 - it would have devestated both Sam and Cam's careers and wasn't necessary. SGA S4:

Spoiler:

The fact that she seems to be transferred off again fairy quickly to another command supports this view, too.

[ReganX]

It was a far greater blow to her career not to give her command of SG-1 in season nine. She went from having a sizable command to being a subordinate in her prior command. While she wasn't demoted in rank, it would have been seen as a vote of no confidence.

In one of my stories, I had to incorporate a new element into its canon to explain both Sam's transfer to Area 51 and the fact that she didn't take command of SG-1 or another SG team when she returned to the SGC.

Surprisingly enough, it made a lot of sense once the new factor had been taken into account.

[scifithinker]

Only, on the show and in canon, it's never clear why she's back. Not being involved in fandom, I assumed she was just temporarily assigned back because of the Ori. That's how I interpreted the scene with Landry and Jack on the phone. It wasn't a formal transfer back, but she was temporarily assigned as an advisor - which happens. There's nothing On The Show to say otherwise. This is actually why I don't think she was put back in command of SG-1 - it would have devestated both Sam and Cam's careers and wasn't necessary. SGA S4:

Spoiler:

The fact that she seems to be transferred off again fairy quickly to another command supports this view, too.

That's how I initially interpreted that scene, but I think it became clear later that she wasn't going anywhere anytime soon--especially after Cam was so delighted to get the band back together. Two years is an awfully long time for a temporary appointment, especially since many assignments are given for that length of time.

I wasn't active in fandom on the internet during season nine either.

[scifithinker]

In one of my stories, I had to incorporate a new element into its canon to explain both Sam's transfer to Area 51 and the fact that she didn't take command of SG-1 or another SG team when she returned to the SGC.

Surprisingly enough, it made a lot of sense once the new factor had been taken into account.

Link, please. I'd like to read it.

I wouldn't surprise me if it took a fanfic to make that decision make sense.

[ReganX]

Link, please. I'd like to read it.

I wouldn't surprise me if it took a fanfic to make that decision make sense.

Stargate: Athena

It's a post-Season Ten story with Sam in command of a ship. I'm co-authoring it with a friend - SionnachOghma.

Spoiler:

It never made sense to me that Sam would leave field work for a desk job and the excuse about Cassie didn't fit so I decided that the reason Sam left for Area 51 was because she had been selected for command of the first X-306 and wanted to be involved in the design and construction. It was a top secret project - hence her vagueness when refusing Mitchell's offer to allow her to rejoin SG-1 - and her role as ship’s commander was intended to prepare her for eventual command of the SGC.

When the situation with the Ori reared it’s ugly head, Sam was called back to the SGC but it was thought that she would only be there a very short time before returning to work on her ship so there was no point in taking command away from Mitchell if Sam was only going to be back a matter of weeks, a few months at most. It would have looked awful on his record and would have made him look bad in front of others at the SGC. Had they known from the moment she returned that she’d be there the best part of two years, it might have been a different story but by the time they realized that, Mitchell had been in command too long for them to be able to downgrade him without doing his career and reputation a lot of harm.

Construction of Sam’s ship was delayed because of the Ori situation and she was left in a kind of limbo, not really fully back at the SGC or on SG-1 but unable to move on.

However, now that the Ori have been expelled from our plane of existence - thanks, in no small part to Sam, with some help from Vala - and the Asgard stepped in to help out with the ship’s construction, Sam is all set to go.

[chocdoc]

I actually think they did a good job in SGA S1 of balancing the characters, creating some natural conflict areas between the various team members and produced some good storylines. The best story/episode for me of S1 was Weir-centric - Before I Sleep. Wonderful, wonderful story for Weir and very well-acted by Torri. Of all the characters, FORD was the one most under-used and the one where it seemed to me they had failed to fully find their feet in how to use him, who he was, what his role within the team was really meant to be.

I think where it all went wrong for Weir as a character was in S2, which was hugely unbalanced character-wise, and also suffered because of three decisions (whether intentional or not); one, to reconnect Atlantis with Earth in the S1 season finale; two, the Wraith retro-virus arc, and three, to shift the military/civilian conflict between Sheppard and Weir to Caldwell and Weir.

Rest in spoilers as I'm referring to S2, S3 and S4...and SG1 9 and 10 (mild spoilers only)

Spoiler:

The first decision, given the threat of the Wraith, made leaving Weir, a civilian, in command on somewhat dodgy ground. They got round it brilliantly by Weir effectively ending up in command during the final battle and them all coming up with the ruse to make the Wraith think Atlantis was destroyed. Weir rightly kept the command because the threat of the Wraith was effectively downgraded as long as they believed Atlantis was destroyed. But, it did put Weir in a strange place as a civilian commander; the more threats that Atlantis has to respond to militarily the less likely it is that you're going to keep a civilian, no matter how good you think her leadership is, in charge...while they touched on this at the beginning of S3 really it was unbelivable that Weir retained command after the debacle with the Wraith almost invading Earth and with the discovery of the Asurans.

Equally, the more threats Atlantis has to respond to the more challenging it is to come up with a truthful way of writing how this civilian character would respond to those situations when her own natural inclination is diplomacy not military action...which is why the second decision to have the entire Wraith retro-virus arc did Weir's character a complete disservice. Torri herself complained to the writers that she didn't think some of the decisions Weir was making was in character for Weir (she mentioned it in a GW article a while back). IMO, it was out of character for Weir and the writers wrote for the arc and hoped they could get away with fudging the fact Weir as a character would never have gone down that road.

They compounded that by removing any sign of conflict between her and Shep for the most part. Really that whole arc should have played out like the events in S3's First Strike where you have the military making a decision that Weir would naturally baulk against but being overruled. Quite honestly, I think they really wrote themselves into a corner with Weir as a commander in S2 and I think they've been struggling to know how to get themselves out of it since. Ultimately, and sadly, it looks like they've taken the easy option in some respects of saying 'let's just not have Weir as leader anymore.'

To bring this back on topic, I think they are unlikely to make the same mistake with Sam simply because the set-up is now different; Sam is military and better suited to a command where you're going to have to come up with military solutions to respond to the very real threats you're facing. Yet there is some good room for conflict; Sam's competing/uncomfortable relationship with McKay is a well-established dynamic and the writers enjoy writing for it. Equally, I think they'll be able to set-up some good conflict with Shep who will for the first time have someone who has effectively done his very job in charge of him. There is a lot of meaty stuff for the character that they can play with in that respect. I also do think that they have learned to some degree from the mistakes of S9 with SG1 whether TPTB admit it or not (S10 shows that) - hence why I think having made the decision on Weir, they went for Sam as the replacement rather than either Caldwell or the new guy, Ellis, both of whom must have been contenders.

So, I don't think they'll make the same mistake with Sam as they did with Weir. This, of course, doesn't mean that they'll not make completely new mistakes with Sam.

I'm encouraged though that JM and PM seem to have enormous respect for AT and that they have brought back the read-throughs where the actors have the opportunity to feedback on the scripts on issues get ironed out before filming.

Wonderful points! I think you could be right on this -- I hope so.

Spoiler:

On a sidenote, I told some friends of mine about Carter and they were very happy about it mainly because it is about time that Carter has a clear leadership position of her own. And like many others too---they feel badly about Weir. But like many have said, given the story progression in the last two seasons, it seems that they need a military leader on Atlantis right now, and Carter makes the most sense as that leader. I can see why AT decided to go for it because there is a lot of potential for the character of Carter to develop further with new interactions and new responsibilities. She hasn't had much in the last two seasons (except a little in the second half of season 10 it seems). So this could be good for Carter. I look forward to seeing Carter in this new leadership position, but yes -- I really feel for Weir fans.

[starlover]

hmmm about the topic that Sam in SGA S4:

Spoiler:

is the leader of Atlantis...

I think that

Spoiler:

it will be very challenging for both writers and actors. Firstly because there is again a new person in the group, since the beginning of SGA there are a lot of new characters introduced and also there went some characters...how will the changes play out this time? Good or bad?

Also if you finally see that Sam is the leader in atlantis how will the fans of Atlantis react, in some way she will be replaced for Weir. Also does Sam get promoted to Full colonel, or does she stay Luitenant-colonel, if so, how will the leadership between both be. There is NO cilivilian leader anymore on Atlantis, how will the people there react on this? Plus how will the relationship be between Sam and Sheppard. Sheppard was the military leader of Atlantis and knows everything there much better then Sam, he is now passed again as leader, why Sam as leader and not him? It is true that Sam has more experience on the area of the Stargate but not in SGA, it is new terotory(sp?) for her. Will Sheppard help her with the leadership? or will he do anything against it?
Also where does Weir goes to...does she die?*you can guess that a little bit because of the last episode of SGA S3*
If not, where does she really go to? my shippy mind has some idea's but i don't think that the writers agree with my mind

But back on Sam, i hope the writers will write everything good, and that it will play out fine, not to easy, i hope it will be realistic and that it will be fun...

coz also how is Rodney gonna react on this? I normally like the 'relationship' he and Sam have but normally that is for one episode and not much more after each other...so this keeps me busy too

In all i hope it will be good and i am curious to see S4 of atlantis...

I hope i didn't say anything double/three double etc... But this were just my thoughts on it