Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[Frostfox]

In other words, her romantic entanglements have no bearing on how great she is.

I don't think that 'ship' per se is bad for a character. I do think the way it was written on Stargate, not only for Sam, was damaging.

I wrote this in another thread.

I was reading the Visual Guide to SG1 that one of my friends kindly bought me for xmas. It's a nice book and a lovely keepsake of the series.
There are two pages for each of the 'big four' original SG1 and each page has boxes with different aspects of their life, or memorable incidents highlighted, for example, Daniel and ascension and Daniel and Shar'e. Jack and Thor and Jack and his family. Only Sam had a box entitled 'Relationships'. The three men on the team have had as many relationships as her, possibly more but was there a box called 'relationships' for any of them? No.
There was specific mention of spouses and the like but no listings of the various women they have been shown with. Why are Sam's relationships noteworthy when theirs aren't? Why should they be considered differently to her, what makes people still define a woman by who she is going out with in a way they wouldn't even consider with a man? Why are some couples still formally addessed as 'Mr and Mrs John Smith'?

Thoughts?

FF

[golfbooy]

I agree with the comments about Sam and ship.

So while she continues to be a fantastic character all on her own...as some of the second half Season 10 episodes will attest, I still hope that TPTB tell us what happened and what her decisions were. Frankly, after going through the emotional rollercoaster with her, I feel kinda cheated that they haven't even made an effort.

But then, ambiguity is so much better than actually taking a stand...isn't it?

If it makes you feel any better, though it probably won't, I think it's worth pointing out that Sam is not the only character that has been ignored. Yes, Sam's decisions and previous personal exploration and growth has been ignored. There's been nothing regarding her relationship with Jack, nothing regarding the loss of Jacob, and nothing regarding her ties to Cassandra.

But Teal'c, for the first eight years of the series, was on a journey that led to a greater connection with Ryac, a probable relationship with Ista, and a continuing sense of duty in shaping the Jaffa nation he worked so hard to create. But he's had no development at all on any of those fronts.

Any soul searching that Daniel has been doing these past two years have most certainly been offscreen. For one brief shining second in The Pegasus Project Brad Wright did something with Daniel, showed us some real insight and development regarding Daniel's conflicted relationship with the Ancients. But it was just one moment, and none of the other writers have been brave enough to do anything with it since.

Landry, despite being a shiny new character, is still the walking, talking automaton that we first saw in Avalon. The "relationship" with Lam has been most often painful to watch, and the General has failed to form any kind of bond with any member of SG-1. Landry is distant and disconnected from the show, the complete antithesis of the role Hammond served.

Vala and Mitchell have been given much more attention by the writers, but even they aren't very complete characters. Mitchell is nothing more than stereotypically good and righteous. Any character building that went on for Mitchell was scuttled in Flesh and Blood when a new conciousness was downloaded into Cameron's body. Now, I think the writers have tried to develop Vala, to mixed results. There are good and bad bits of Vala, and a seeming disconcert with the role each writer wants her to play. Ultimately, she's the only character who has had any real growth or development in two years. And that's just crap.

Jack O'neill doesn't even bear mentioning. Who or what he is currently is an enigma wrapped in a riddle wrapped in a mystery.

The saddest way I can sum up the "character development" over the last two years is to say that upon reflection, I believe Tomin is the character that has been most consistently portrayed and written. He has a definitive beginning point, we've seen him along the way both righteous and conflicted, and latest indications are that he'll find some sort of redemptive end.

So, yeah.

[jckfan55]

my feelings are, i don't mind ship IN the story, just not AS the story.

It can be like special effects...there to augment and 'season' the story, but it shouldn't be the sole sum of anything in the story.

I see nothing wrong with mentioning that sam is on a date, or that she's here or there or gets called back to the sgc on an emergency and she's all dressed up. adds a bit of realism to it.

but when we get 43 solid minutes of who she's spending time with and where and why, hten it's too much, at least for me

I so agree with you. I'd like to see glimpses of Sam's life and think your scenario of her being called in from a date would be very realistic. I'm not against romance, I just don't want the main characters paired off.

As you say, 43 minutes of dating etc is too much--just as it would be if it were Daniel or Teal'c or Jack, IMHO.

[Skydiver]

oh yeah, too much for any of them.

maybe, jsut maybe, if we had different writers that could write a relationship 'better' it might be different. But the boys that we have now, well they write thier relationships as if they're pre-teens writing in thier diaries. None of the characters come across very well in the relationship angle, but i think sam suffers the most because, imho, the writers suffer from 'projection syndrome'...ie the character that they create to fall for sam, well it often seems to be a personification of the writer.

well meaning but brilliant geek that has a crush on the prettiest girl in the school...who humors them and accepts them and is thier entry into the 'cool kids club'

(felger, pete, mckay, take your pick. they're all basically the same, the geek that falls for the girl)

It seems that the writers get so hung up on the fact that sam is a girl that they often forget to simply write her as a military officer that just happens to be a woman. thus this focus on her romantic relationship life when the boy characters get cool plot arcs to their name....sam's often reduced to the token 'booty girl'...cause these writers seem to have issues writing a character that's played by a female actor instead of a female character

[jckfan55]

and a brand new sam in atlantis fic
http://www.jackfic.com/emeraldcity/a...s/mailcall.htm

a season four speculation fic

Good story Sky! Can't green ya.

[jckfan55]

It seems that the writers get so hung up on the fact that sam is a girl that they often forget to simply write her as a military officer that just happens to be a woman. thus this focus on her romantic relationship life when the boy characters get cool plot arcs to their name....sam's often reduced to the token 'booty girl'...cause these writers seem to have issues writing a character that's played by a female actor instead of a female character

They should have signs in their offices in giant letters: Write Sam the same as you would any officer, Amanda will take care of the girl part.

[resurgamlaura]

They should have signs in their offices in giant letters: Write Sam the same as you would any officer, Amanda will take care of the girl part.

Some of the best female roles have occurred like that. Dan O'Banon wrote 'Alien' and in his head had a rough idea of who he wanted to be male and female, but at the end of the script he put a disclaimer that said that all the roles were unisex so to speak- and this allowed the producers to cast Weaver as Ripley, which was a role written ambigiously and meant that Ripley could just...be. You get this weird thing with Sam in the first season in particular- its like the writers had to make her everything at once and write 'feminist Sam', 'officer Sam', scientist Sam' and 'maternal Sam' eps. Sam only became truly real and natural once she just allowed to get on with it-and even then they kept on 'projecting' every now and again.

[tagger]

well, more RDA for me then
On topic: I love that Sam is one of the team & the guys don't feel the need to protect her any more than they would each other. In fact, she's often the one protecting others--in the early seasons especially Daniel. I always think "Bloodlines" and the hand grenade scene. Very cool.

More RDA for me too... hehe.

kinda new fic. i finally got around to putting up my Women of Stargate entry

http://www.jackfic.com/emeraldcity/a...ddlejumper.htm

A Sam and Teyla friendship fic

and a brand new sam in atlantis fic
http://www.jackfic.com/emeraldcity/a...s/mailcall.htm

a season four speculation fic

Fantastic fics, Sky. I especially loved Sam new to Atlantis, and the little bit of

Spoiler:

homesickness, aloneness, all of it. Sweet Mitchell and Dorothy, perfect!! Great character feel.

Okay this won't be as brevit as earlier but here goes:

Yeah I agree and I just wish TPTKSG-1 would get over thier own pre-pubescent school boy lusty crushes of AT so they could then leave Carter alone - she's a great character and does not need all the idiotic baggage they foist upon her.

I agree.
Do it well, or not at all.

I agree with the comments about Sam and ship.
See, she is strong, brilliant and fantastic and this is true whether she's paired with someone or not. Further, if Sam got married next week to Jack or Pete or the mailman, it would not make her any less strong, brilliant and fantastic.

In other words, her romantic entanglements have no bearing on how great she is.

I for one appreciate seeing her struggle with her feelings. It adds a layer of depth and reality to a person who's almost too good to be true...a loyal Air Force officer, a skilled soldier, a genius scientist, a loving mother and friend...etc. Seeing her not be perfect or not deal with a situation with the level of efficiency and proficiency we're used to seeing in her professional life makes it easier to connect with her.

That being said...they started a specific story arc and I think it hurts her character to not at least hint at the decisions she's made, either pro or con. Instead, they've simply ignored it. Granted they're kind of forced to do so given logistical constraints; that is, if they had intended any kind of meaningful resolve. But they could have done something, for crying out loud. A comment. A line. 5 seconds of dialog. Something...anything...to give a glimpse into what happened after Moebius.

So while she continues to be a fantastic character all on her own...as some of the second half Season 10 episodes will attest, I still hope that TPTB tell us what happened and what her decisions were. Frankly, after going through the emotional rollercoaster with her, I feel kinda cheated that they haven't even made an effort.

But then, ambiguity is so much better than actually taking a stand...isn't it?

I had to quote the whole thing - I so agree with this. Sam doesn't need someone to 'complete' her, nor should she pine away after a certain someone. If a relationship happens, so be it, relationships happen all the time in real life, just not with every new co-worker that crosses your path.

I guess it is harder to pair Sam with someone since she is so brilliant and accomplished. Not to sound totally sappy, but I think true love can conquer many things. Sam could marry someone she truly loved and someone who truly loved her who was not a genius, superman, or proverbial geek.

Or Sam could not marry anyone, date anyone, etc and be just fine.

And I agree re: resolution of S/J - I am a S/J shipper, but I think any woman in Sam's shoes may have moved on by now - if she really wants a family, time is ticking.

my feelings are, i don't mind ship IN the story, just not AS the story.

It can be like special effects...there to augment and 'season' the story, but it shouldn't be the sole sum of anything in the story.

Yup.

OT in spoilers

Spoiler:

Easier to drop a quick post here than email everyone at the moment - I'm home - sore but things went well - I'll give you details in an email later

Spoiler:

I am not sure what happened, but am glad you are ok.

I was reading the Visual Guide to SG1

There are two pages for each of the 'big four' original SG1 and each page has boxes with different aspects of their life, or memorable incidents highlighted, for example, Daniel and ascension and Daniel and Shar'e. Jack and Thor and Jack and his family. Only Sam had a box entitled 'Relationships'. The three men on the team have had as many relationships as her, possibly more but was there a box called 'relationships' for any of them? No.
There was specific mention of spouses and the like but no listings of the various women they have been shown with. Why are Sam's relationships noteworthy when theirs aren't? Why should they be considered differently to her, what makes people still define a woman by who she is going out with in a way they wouldn't even consider with a man? Why are some couples still formally addessed as 'Mr and Mrs John Smith'?
FF

Velly intellestink. I don't have the book, but I agree, it seems odd. Maybe to satisfy the S/J fans and sell more books? But then why not list Jack's love interests?

As to the way society treats men and women differently, I don't want to open that Pandora's box. Suffice it to say, that is why, in general, I felt Sam to be a refreshing way of writing a female. For the most part, Sam is written much more as an officer who happens to be female, than a female who happens to be an officer. Just my perspective.

I will never forget seeing Sam pick up and handle a grenade launcher or some such device without a second thought. I can't remember the episode, but none of her teammates even considered helping, as they shouldn't - she was closest to it, it was her job. Sam handles all military paraphernalia just as well as the guys, is not written as a bimbo, and contributes scientifically to the episodes. I know this same thing has been said over and over here, but I still think it is cool!!

If it makes you feel any better, though it probably won't, I think it's worth pointing out that Sam is not the only character that has been ignored.

Good points.

[scifithinker]

my feelings are, i don't mind ship IN the story, just not AS the story.

It can be like special effects...there to augment and 'season' the story, but it shouldn't be the sole sum of anything in the story.

I see nothing wrong with mentioning that sam is on a date, or that she's here or there or gets called back to the sgc on an emergency and she's all dressed up. adds a bit of realism to it.

but when we get 43 solid minutes of who she's spending time with and where and why, hten it's too much, at least for me

Law and Order SVU did an episode once where Olivia gets called in from a date to deal with a hostage crisis. Someone said "Nice dress," and she went on and did her job. It was very effective, highlighting how hard it is to get a life when your job is based on your having skills that make the difference between life and death, literally in both Sam's and Olivia's cases.

Neither SVU or Stargate is a relationship show. Pete was a useful addition in showing character development for Sam, but I think he would have been far more effective in smaller doses over more episodes. As it was written, I think we were overdosed with him. I also think he would have been a more effective presence if the writers showed his impact on the team as opposed to just his impact on Sam.

Just as Jack's change in position at the SGC changed the dynamics of the team, a serious relationship that removed any of them from the presence of the other team members for significant time periods would lead to changes.

They should have signs in their offices in giant letters: Write Sam the same as you would any officer, Amanda will take care of the girl part.

*high fives jckfan55*

Ain't that the truth?

[ReganX]

Landry, despite being a shiny new character, is still the walking, talking automaton that we first saw in Avalon. The "relationship" with Lam has been most often painful to watch, and the General has failed to form any kind of bond with any member of SG-1. Landry is distant and disconnected from the show, the complete antithesis of the role Hammond served.

Even that could have had potential, story-wise, if references to past events that Mitchell wasn't repeating parrot-fashion to people who had lived through them hadn't been outlawed.

If Landry has failed to form a bond with Sam, Daniel or Teal'c - I think he has with Mitchell - let there be reasons for that, let it impact the show. Let them compare him to Hammond and Jack, let them react to his behaviour, to adjust to working with him, etc.

As it stands, Lam is one of the worst things to happen to Landry - and the fact that she is still base CMO despite the fact that their relationship is affecting their interactions does not reflect well on either of them. I don't care if Jack was the one to arrange for Lam's appointment, if she or Landry were to tell his superiors that they felt that their ability to work together was being compromised, one of them would have been transferred.

[SunKrux]

OK, people, I need your help, please. ShimmeringStar sent me her lovely synopsis of the Samandan Story, but if people have certian images from the show that fit with the story so far, please, please, pretty please pm me a link so I can get the cover/backcover for the story done before the deadline.

Thanks!

[majorsal]

well, more RDA for me then

uh... i didn't just hear what i think i heard? R.D.A IS.MINE.



jckfan...








sally

[Gate gal]

They should have signs in their offices in giant letters: Write Sam the same as you would any officer, Amanda will take care of the girl part.

And, honestly, that would solve everything. If anybody knows what Sam should and shouldn't do, it's Amanda.

I am in major awe of Myrth and Oooobs at the moment! Wow, great work on the Sanctuary site! It is awesome! Myrth, I know you've been pulling double duty, since you've also been writing the Samandan story fork. I hope you get a chance to just sit back, relax, and enjoy the moment now.

I've seen some pretty awesome walls, icons, and fanfic this weekend. Cool!

Now, I'm gonna go play at Myrth and Oooober's site for awhile. Night Samandans!

[Skydiver]

Law and Order SVU did an episode once where Olivia gets called in from a date to deal with a hostage crisis. Someone said "Nice dress," and she went on and did her job. It was very effective, highlighting how hard it is to get a life when your job is based on your having skills that make the difference between life and death, literally in both Sam's and Olivia's cases.

west wing did one too. nancy mcnalley - secy of state maybe? anyway, there was a crisis, she came in in her formal gown and i think the only remark was 'someone go to my house and get me something else to wear' and she just went on doing her job in satin and heels

[SunKrux]

west wing did one too. nancy mcnalley - secy of state maybe? anyway, there was a crisis, she came in in her formal gown and i think the only remark was 'someone go to my house and get me something else to wear' and she just went on doing her job in satin and heels

"The Closer" did it in an eps. Brenda was out at a formal dinner with Fritz and showed up at the hospital (where the case started) in her formal and just did her job. Nothing was said that I recall. I don't even think she asked for someone to get her different clothes.