Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[NearlyCircular]

I’m in a silly mood (four hours of giving final exams and another 3 hours grading might have something to do with that,) so here’s an anthem for the group. With thanks/apologies to Monty Python.

Sam Sam Sam Sam...

Sam! Lovely Sam! Lovely Sam!

Sam Sam Sam Sam...

Lovely Sam! Wonderful Sam!

Sam Sam Sam Sam. Lovely Sam! Wonderful Sam!

Sam Sam Sam Sam. Lovely Sam! Wonderful Sam! Sam saa-a-a-a-a-am Sam saa-a-a-a-a-am Sam. Lovely Sam! Lovely Sam! Lovely Sam! Lovely Sam! Lovely Sam! Sam Sam Sam Sam!

(and if you imagine that they’re actually singing Sam instead of spam, here’s the audio)
Sam

BTW, if you’ve never seen or heard this Monty Python skit, or if you want to hear it again, here’s a site with both the written words and a real player audio file to listen to. For some reason, it still makes me laugh. This skit happens to be the origin of the term spam as used on the internet.
Spam skit

NC

[ForeverSg1]

which are both about the same proportions

ahem

D'OH!

[astrogeologist]

I think the divergence of opinion about Gemini stems from a fundamentally different interpretation of the nature of replicators (and perhaps humanity, as well…given natural tendencies towards realism or idealism).

The actions of Carter, Teal’c, and Jack would appear “dumbassified” (and that is a great word, Carterslave!) if the assumption is that replicators are evil (and I don’t necessarily mean that in a philosophical or moral sense, but in the sense that their main goal is to replicate themselves with no consideration of anything else), capable of doing nothing but evil (again, in the sense that they can do nothing but destroy), and have no hope for redemption (thereby making Replicarter's story "far-fetched"). If that is the basic assumption, then yes, obviously they never should have trusted Replicarter, and they should have blown her away at the first opportunity.

I’m not going to say that this interpretation is wrong, because I can see how a legitimate argument could be made for it. It’s a fairly safe assumption that Replicarter was up to no good, and the safest option available to them, obviously, was to destroy her without question. In a realistic risk/benefit assessment, the risks of trusting her (even a little) could arguably have outweighed the potential benefits.

However, I think there is an equally valid argument that the safe route was not necessarily the most ethically or philosophically correct route, or at least not at the point when Replicarter initially contacted them. Let’s assume for a moment that Carter, Teal’c, and Jack did not have access to spoilers telling them that Carter’s emotions will put the entire Earth in danger. There is one key element that I feel justifies their actions:

They don’t know for certain that the humanoid replicators like Fifth are capable of nothing but evil and have no hope for redemption. I did not find her story to be entirely far-fetched, and here is why:

Fifth was flawed. And that flaw made him more human than the others. That was made very clear in Unnatural Selection. At the end of Unnatural Selection, Jack forced Carter to use Fifth’s humanity against him. Emphasis on Fifth’s humanity and his emotional responses were reinforced in New Order when they showed his rage at being betrayed (as well as his love for Carter, twisted though it was). For all SG-1 knew at the beginning of Gemini, that flaw, that element of humanity, had been passed on to Replicarter. I don’t think it’s a huge leap in logic to allow for the possibility that Fifth created Replicarter in his own flawed image. Given that Replicarter also claimed to have been given Carter’s memories and emotions, I believe it even strengthened the argument that here was a replicator that could have been even more “human” (or “flawed”) than Fifth.

So, we have a question about the best course of action to take when presented by Replicarter. Do you take the safe route, and destroy? Or do you take the dangerous route, based on potentialities? (Or a slightly different route, with someone other than Carter assigned to the mission, but still trying to get info out of Replicarter.) The latter options both have some risk associated with them, but they allow for the possibility that Replicarter is flawed... and therefore maybe she has human emotions...that perhaps she is telling the truth; perhaps she can help them in battle against Fifth and the other replicators; perhaps she can be trusted, and perhaps she can be redeemed….

Yes, there are a lot of perhapses there. But I freely admit to being a potentiality kind of person. I’m a dreamer, an idealist, and I believe in the possibility of redemption. In my opinion, what Jack ordered Sam to do in Unnatural Selection was ethically wrong. Safe, yes. Smart, maybe. But I don’t believe that smart and safe always equate to “right” in the grand scheme of good vs. evil. My naïve, innocent, optimistic view of the universe is that we should give people a chance to prove themselves, even when there is risk involved.

Teal’c was their enemy in the beginning (trusted on nothing more than "O'Neill's intuition"... and why should that be any more valid than "women's intuition," I wonder... ) and there was risk in trusting him, too, and yet he proved himself a valuable ally. If given a chance, perhaps Fifth would have been, as well. If given a chance, perhaps Replicarter could have been too. That's the chance they gave her. So, it turned out that Fifth learned his lesson of betrayal a little too well, and Jack's mistake in ordering Carter to betray him came back and bit them... Sometimes you take a chance and it backfires. But that doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't the "right" thing to do.

My Grandma Carter (yes, I have Carter blood in me!) had a wonderful saying: Two wrongs don’t make a right.

Blowing away Replicarter without giving her a chance would have been safe (and risk free). But I still maintain that it also would have been ethically questionable given that they had no idea where she stood on the sliding replicator scale of human-like flaws. They did not know if Replicarter was good or evil. Her creator was flawed; she could have been flawed, too. She could have been a tremendous help to them.

The problem with “shoot first, ask questions later” is that you don’t actually get to ask questions after you’ve killed or destroyed someone. And it’s not a good way to make friends. One could just as legitimately argue that destroying Replicarter right off the bat would have been a terrible waste of an opportunity for interrogation and an expression of extreme paranoia. I am very thankful that SG-1 does not usually operate under the “shoot first” philosophy. Where would be the fun in blowing up every alien they encounter?

So, I still argue that Carter’s compassion is not a bad thing; and I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree about whether taking risks based on compassion and potentialities is dumb. Maybe they could have done some things better, but to me this was a much more interesting story, and I don't think it necessary dumbassified anyone. I think it might all boil down to an issue of realism vs. idealism, and I have tried to present the side of idealism here. But if Carter was a dumbass in this episode, then I’m a dumbass, too. But I guess I could have worse role models.

Wow, and after reading this back over, I see it turned into a mini-novel, and I have no idea if any of it makes any sense. But I guess we're all allowed a few long rants, right? No intention to sound mean or depressing... It's all just an interesting philosophical debate on my part.

Great post, Strix.

Tried to respond to this several times over the past couple of days, but kept 'losing the connection' to the forum

I agree with so much of what you said.. and yet, I can also empathize with Carterslave's responses.

For now, I'd love to see Replicarter come back... and Sam deals with her - it's emotionally a struggle for both of them... but I'd really like to see our Sam come out on top.. and outsmart Replicarter. I'd also like to see RC as a more complex character - and not simply evil or just leading the rest of the replicators in a locust-type of existence.

I'd also like to reiterate Simha's great suggestion:

In season 9, I'd like to see a situation where the SGC has to decide whether to trust a former enemy (who is not a double of Sam ), and RepliCarter is the reference to which everyone refers, and because of which, Sam's opinion is mostly discounted. But, when the decision to trust or not is made opposite to her opinion, it turns out to be wrong, and Sam has to use her empathy - as well as her scientific and military expertise - to salvage the situation and save the world, and succeeds brilliantly. (hey, I like 'Sam saves the world' stories! )

[ChopinGal]

me thinks our loyal and esteemed Jester has made a freudian slip....probably lost her footing in the pool of drool the mental images has caused

Or, all the more likely, has once more placed her royal foot in her royal mouth!

Good night all you youngsters ... the matriarch is going to bed ... alone!

[ForeverSg1]

Great new banner, Kat!

Aww, you are always so nice Astrog!

Just so everyone knows... I've been bored out of my skull with GW not available so if anyone has any desire for a sig, send me a idea of what you want, what type of saying, pictures, ect and I'll play with it in my free time. Can't guarantee it will be something you'd like, but I'm sure it will help me with my boredom should I not be able to log back on for awhile.

Kat

[ChopinGal]

I’m in a silly mood (four hours of giving final exams and another 3 hours grading might have something to do with that,) so here’s an anthem for the group. With thanks/apologies to Monty Python.

Sam Sam Sam Sam...

Sam! Lovely Sam! Lovely Sam!

Sam Sam Sam Sam...

Lovely Sam! Wonderful Sam!

Sam Sam Sam Sam. Lovely Sam! Wonderful Sam!

Sam Sam Sam Sam. Lovely Sam! Wonderful Sam! Sam saa-a-a-a-a-am Sam saa-a-a-a-a-am Sam. Lovely Sam! Lovely Sam! Lovely Sam! Lovely Sam! Lovely Sam! Sam Sam Sam Sam!

(and if you imagine that they’re actually singing Sam instead of spam, here’s the audio)
Sam

BTW, if you’ve never seen or heard this Monty Python skit, or if you want to hear it again, here’s a site with both the written words and a real player audio file to listen to. For some reason, it still makes me laugh. This skit happens to be the origin of the term spam as used on the internet.
Spam skit

NC

ROTFLOL This was great, NC. And end-of-term is bringing out the craziness tonight. I have 30 term papers waiting to be graded this weekend!

This is the perfect Samanda anthem ... or did we have one about a million pages ago?!

[the dancer of spaz]

Holy crap! I am so confused! Then again... what else is new, eh?

Heh heh...

Wake me up when it's July!

Hey, are you guys making this one of the most-traversed threads on the forum or something?

[Carterslave]

Drunken!Amanda? Violent!Amanda? Angry!Amanda? Where do I see this movie???

That goes double for me, bro. (GettingNastyInAnElevator!Amanda causes me no pain either.)
Interesting that the most-downloaded screencap is the one of Amanda giving the one-finger salute—no translation required. It's nice to see that AT's command of sign language is not going to waste.
Why do I get the feeling that we'll soon be reading a whole bunch of gritty—even smutty—Sam/Martouf fanfics? Bring 'em on!

[Uber]

Yes!

I soooo want to see this movie!


Sally

It's a compelling trailer...when does the movie actually come out? I can't imagine it's a made-for-tv movie...maybe straight to dvd??

[Agent_Dark]

It's a compelling trailer...when does the movie actually come out? I can't imagine it's a made-for-tv movie...maybe straight to dvd??

Its only a short movie, 15min runtime according to IMDb

Sky said earlier something about the distributing basically shelfing the movie?

[Uber]

Its only a short movie, 15min runtime according to IMDb

Sky said earlier something about the distributing basically shelfing the movie?

Well isn't that swell.

What about those of us that want to see it?

I think I'll give Amanda a call and see if she can speed things up on her end.

[Agent_Dark]

I think I'll give Amanda a call and see if she can speed things up on her end.

Let me know how it goes

[Myrth]

Me too

Let me know how it goes

[ChopinGal]

Its only a short movie, 15min runtime according to IMDb

Sky said earlier something about the distributing basically shelfing the movie?

That seems to be what happened ... not sure if it even made it to the different film festivals like Sundance or Tribeca. Does anyone on this thread have a way of checking on that for the film year of 2002 or 2003?

I know a little bit about this because my daughter has been involved in a similar project which just got filmed as a "short indie" (an adaptation of her one-act play which runs about 15-20 minutes). This film is now supposed to go on the annual film-festival circuit in the states. That's where it could get picked up by a distributor and, I think, either shown as a short film or developed into a larger, longer script and format.

Stuck looks like a very powerful short drama ... it's a shame that TPTB just let it fade away on a shelf. Does anyone know for sure if it had a limited release in Australia or Canada? It was filmed in Toronto.

I think all of Amanda's fans would love to see it!

[SamFan31]

Continuing the saga of Sam and her Carter’s Copter adventures…

Sam has spent so much time zipping here and there in her new copter that she realized it was time to do some maintenance chores on her highly advanced and complex craft.

She has spent several long days in the test pit working on the copter and she is tired, very tired. But she has friends to support and cheer her on. Thor transported a treasured possession to help her feel more at home during these days of manual labor.

Maintenance