Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[tagger]

i didn't read the article, but i'm reminded of the line from a fic.

disallowing women in combat isn't as much a fear of the woman's inability to do her job, but of the males inability to treat her as 'one of the guys'

and i don't mean harrassing/discriminating against her. what i mean is the typical male protectiveness coming forth.

would the males in the unit, under fire, be able to treat her as one of them, or would her gender make them take extra care of her, pay extra attention to her (and i'm not meaning sexually) possibly to the detriment of the others

I"m not arguing one way or the other, just remarking on a line in a fic and how it pertains to this issue

Yes, agree. One of the people quoted in the article said any distraction on the front lines is deadly - i.e. as you mentioned above - -worried about a female soldier.

The article was also interesting in the sense one of those quoted said action on the frontline was essentially sexless - I imagine the combination of chaos and military order supercedes male/ female roles.

Some brief quotes from the article SG1poz posted (I think the forum rules allow brief quotes and SG1poz's post has the complete source/link for those interested):

"Traditionally, the front is the most sexless place in the world. Behind the lines is where trouble happens," says Joshua Goldstein, a professor emeritus of international relations at American University and author of "War and Gender."

"We now know women can hold their own, they're brave, they do have the physical and mental stamina to face combat-like situations," says retired Navy Capt. Lory Manning, director of the Women in the Military Project at the Women's Research and Education Institute in Washington, D.C. "We now know that men don't go to pieces and the American public doesn't go to pieces if women are killed. And we know that women, in fact, can defend men."

Interesting... want to stay and talk - fun - but gotta take my little one to a class.. be back later

[Gate gal]

Deejay, I said it to you personally, but I'll say it again, cos I'm sure others will agree on this one. You are a strong, courageous, warm-hearted, compassionate, funny and amazing woman. You might have felt this morning like giving up because the world was crashing down, but you never would because you're too strong for that. Your smile and real love for other human beings is just inspirational and great. I'm so glad you loved the card and, as I said earlier, I'm so glad it came on a day you needed it. God is good like that.

Awesome.

DeeJay, listen to TJ. She's right and I'm glad Samanda was used, or more directly Sky, to make your day better. Hugs and prayers coming your way!

[RepliCartertje]

Something I made:

[samcarterrules]

Here's a bit of interesting news concerning woman in war and in the midst of battle!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061202/...women_in_war_1

Oh I didn't know women weren't allowed in combat units, so if Sam was really in the USAF and SG1 really exsisted Sam wouldn't be there, that right? Wow SG1 without Sam is unthinkable!

Julia(samcarterrules)

[1speed4Sam]

{{{ Deejay }}}

So glad to hear the package arrived safely! Sky's amazing. We were all thinking of you during AT2, and Sky offered to be the "courier" for everyone. Big hugs, I know, from us all!! ((stay strong))

Love,
geek

Er, what minigeek said...

(((((Deejay)))))

[Gate gal]

Something I made:

Lovely job Eve!

[LtColonelSamC]

snipped for space

Some brief quotes from the article SG1poz posted (I think the forum rules allow brief quotes and SG1poz's post has the complete source/link for those interested):

"Traditionally, the front is the most sexless place in the world. Behind the lines is where trouble happens," says Joshua Goldstein, a professor emeritus of international relations at American University and author of "War and Gender."

snipped for space

I can't beging to say how much I LOVE this topic...(Women in the Military, that is. I'm actually doing a research project on potrayals of women in the military, featuring Jessica Lynch, Sam Carter (!!), and the movie GI Jane for my History and Ethics of Modern War Class.)

There's a fantastic piece by Lorry Fenner about the subject of women on the front lines of the military. It's called Myths and Assumptions: Stereotypes and Emotional Arguments. Fenner takes on the arguments that are used against letting women have bigger roles in the Armed Forces, and I think it's a fantastic piece of writing. I have it saved on my computer so if any of you would like to read it; (it's a pdf, so I'm not sure how to post it here) pm me or whatever and I can e-mail it to you. (It's rather long) We wrote review notes about it as well for class, so if you don't have the time to read it, I'll post my review note here under the spoiler tags. This isn't as detailed as I wanted it to go...we had a limit on how many pages!

Spoiler:

Identify and describe it:

This piece is called Myths and Assumptions: Stereotypes and Emotional Arguments by Lorry Fenner. It’s about this history of women in war; how they’re sometimes the reason we go to war, female military casualties, and letting women into our Armed Services and their roles in our Armed Services. Fenner concludes that the arguments for keeping women out of the Armed Services.

Why is it effective?

This was my favorite reading of this class to date. I found it to be effective, to be fascinating to me because of the connections I made to one of my favorite television shows, Stargate SG-1, and my favorite character on that show, Lt. Colonel Samantha Carter. Out of many movies and television shows that I have seen that feature men and women in the Service, Carter is one of the few females and she is also one of the few that have attained a rank as high as Lieutenant Colonel. (This makes me completely sound like a nerd, but I’m okay with that. I am also aware that there is a line that must be drawn when relating fictional characters, but I believe because of the setting of the show, current times, that I can use the character of Carter as examples in this review note. Even though the show does take place in current times, the experiences are very unlike current times and can’t be related to this essay.) From her introduction, and to even now in the Tenth and final season of the show, we have seen the character of Sam Carter deal with many issues in this essay, some of which I describe in parts of the next section.

Quote key sentences, phrases, or lines to identify the topic…

“For instance, as women have repeatedly demonstrated their competence in ever-wider military spheres, arguments against their further inclusion have devolved from assertions that women do not have the physical strength for most military specialties to assertions that they do not have the emotional strength to endure crises, that they do not have the intellect to overcome challenges in battle and that their sexuality and vulnerability would destroy men’s essential battlefield bonds.” While being an extremely long sentence, there is a simple point I believe he is trying to convey. For every step that they take forward by proving themselves as equals to the men, there will always be those that will argue that they’re not strong enough, they’re too emotional, and because they’re women, they’re more apt to be violated in the field. The people who argue that believe, in Fenner’s words, “these factors then undermine mission effectiveness by diverting men’s attention from accomplishing the mission to helping and protecting their female peers.” So, instead of concentrating on the mission at hand, these critics say, they’re saying that their female comrades will be the ones to get into trouble, and it will be the job of the men to save them.

Fenner also talks about how some of those same arguments were also used to keep minority men out of the Armed Services, and then to keep them out of combat positions as well as leadership positions. The point is also made that given the training and an opportunity to prove themselves, minority men were able to confirm that they were as good as their white-male equals. He writes, “Women, too, have shown by their performance that they generally are strong enough for most jobs, emotionally stable enough to cope with wartime stresses, more than smart enough for military work, accepted as credible leaders, and not only do not damage unit cohesion but often improve morale.”

Now, let’s break up that quote and use our example of the female soldier, Sam Carter. First, we’ll take, “Women, too, have shown, by their performance that they generally are strong enough for most jobs,” there is no one time where this can be pointed out; it’s more of a general point that surfaces during the series. The second part of the quote, “emotionally stable enough to cope with wartime stresses,” we see Carter on the battlefield often with her team, fighting the token enemy of the episode. Death is all around on the show, and it isn’t until the death of her best friend on the battlefield that we see her soldier exterior start to break down. But, she didn’t break down until they had returned to the base and we see her keeping it together on the battlefield. The third part of the quote says, “more than smart enough for military work,” all that needs to be said here is that Carter is a graduate of the Air Force Academy and holds a Ph.D in Theoretical Astrophysics and Quantum Mechanics. The commander of her team often defers to her in technical matters and openly admits that she is smarter than he is by leaps and bounds. The last part of the quote that we’ll look at is “accepted as credible leaders.” With the promotion of her former commanding officer, Carter was given command of the flagship team of her unit. She has also held command over rescue missions, where the men must follow her orders for the sake of the mission.

Another interesting point is on page nine of the essay. “According to Linda Francke, male students at West Point who thought of themselves as progressive and not prejudiced against women still could not appropriately compare men’s and women’s abilities. These earnest young men insisted that women as a group were unqualified for combat arms,” During Carter’s (she was then a Captain) introduction to her future commanding officer and the rest of the team-all male-this was very much in effect. Her CO said that he didn’t have a problem with women, just one with scientists. She had to prod him to call her by her rank instead of “Doctor”, and had to laud her achievements as a soldier before he would focus on the briefing. The other men on the team kidded her on her name; the fact she went by “Sam” instead of “Samantha”, they believed that she didn’t have the experience, and were visibly surprised to find out that she did have many of the same experiences and had done what they could do.

Fenner also takes on the myth that “the Services have lowered [physical and intellectual] standards to accommodate women,” and the supposed lack of leadership potential in women, which was once again an issue with minority men as well. When these arguments lost their ground, they started to blame, in Fenner’s words, “cultural programming.” Basically, they claimed that a white person wouldn’t follow the orders of a black person, and men wouldn’t follow the orders of women. Opponents of this theory say that the military is its own culture.

The next major item that Fenner addresses deals with the biology of being a woman. They’re “temporarily dysfunctional during menstruation” as well as “permanently during and after menopause.” Today, with hard data, most people don’t try to resort to these arguments, with the exception of Newt Gingrich. Instead of that argument, those who support keeping women out of the Armed Services turn to pregnancy. What they fail to note when they bring forth this point is that pregnancy isn’t nine months of being tied to a bed. Most women continue to work, albeit it in non-combat situations. Many military women are also never pregnant.

Many other items are mentioned by Fenner, but, this all boils down to the portrayal of female soldiers as the victims in a war. Opponents to females in the military argue, “men would be unable to accomplish their missions under such circumstances. They would be too overcome with shock at the sight, or, alternatively, would neglect their missions in favor of trying to protect their female comrades.” Ironically, these are also the same comrades with whom they can’t bond. Fenner proves this myth busted with a scenario that takes place everyday. “Not only do men assult women daily in large numbers in our cities and towns on public streets, but the highest incidence of sexual assault is between people who know each other.” Citing the Tailhook gauntlet incident, Fenner proves that this finding holds true for the military as well. And also, these same individuals who would “neglect their missions in favor of trying to protect their female comrades,” would no doubt go after their male counterparts. “Never leave a man behind,” anyone?

(I don't think it's hard to tell where I stand on this...I think positions on the front lines should go to those who are most qualified, and if that's a woman, more power to her! Women are just as capable soldiers as men are.)

I think that something that has to be talked about in this topic is how female soldiers are viewed in media (news, movies, tv shows). There's a piece of writing by Virginia Sanprie about the Jessica Lynch story and how she was potrayed in the press, (more specifically the Washington Post). Lynch was shot at, captured, raped, (all very heroic acts), but press coverage from the Washington Post did little more than only make Lynch out to be an "ulta-femine-beauty-pageant-prom girl." In her mind, the Post spends more time asserting her feminimity than concentrating on her heroism. The argument is that by looking at Lynch this way, we’re bringing back old social norms of how we would look at female American soldiers in the past.

Also, there is an article called "The Changing Press Potrait of GI Jane," and I'll just post the quote from the end of the article (I'm pretty sure this is ok to do.

"Still, the issue of motherhood continues to smolder. In a November 2, 2001, Dateline NBC segment, reporter Ann Curry asks a mother of three if she has sleepless nights missing her kids during a combat tour on an aircraft carrier. "Oh, yeah," the Navy electrical technician says wistfully, "[when I] make the mistake of thinking about singing bedtime songs." Curry is not shown asking similar questions of any of fathers on board. The Newhouse piece quotes a female soldier who left a two-year old daughter behind saying, "Yesterday I took a shower and caught myself thinking about her and I just cried and cried." No forlorn fathers are quoted.

In the future, perhaps we'll see coverage of military fathers answering such questions, or the absence of such queries altogether. Either would be preferable to putting the spotlight on weeping Moms in foxholes."

I'll end it here...I've been rambling on for far too long and I'm close to the limit

[SG1Poz]

i didn't read the article, but i'm reminded of the line from a fic.

disallowing women in combat isn't as much a fear of the woman's inability to do her job, but of the males inability to treat her as 'one of the guys'

and i don't mean harrassing/discriminating against her. what i mean is the typical male protectiveness coming forth.

would the males in the unit, under fire, be able to treat her as one of them, or would her gender make them take extra care of her, pay extra attention to her (and i'm not meaning sexually) possibly to the detriment of the others

I"m not arguing one way or the other, just remarking on a line in a fic and how it pertains to this issue

I agree, the problem isn't the females. It's the males that have been drilled all their lives that females need protection due to their being weaker than males. In the physical way that's true but how strong do you have to be to drive a tank or fire a bazooka, shoot a gun, lay a mine etc...? I guess the think they still need us to populate the earth

[JenniferJF]

I agree, the problem isn't the females. It's the males that have been drilled all their lives that females need protection due to their being weaker than males. In the physical way that's true but how strong do you have to be to drive a tank or fire a bazooka, shoot a gun, lay a mine etc...? I guess the think they still need us to populate the earth

It's ironic that the physical argument still gets used. Because I can tell you that during training, women have to carry just as much gear, just a heavy a weapon, and run or march just as far as the guys. What that means is that the women always scored WAY HIGHER on the physical tests then the men because the tests were set on national standards across the population, and after having to road march with men a foot taller than me with a ruck that weighed 75% of my body weight compared to the 30% of theirs it weighed, I was in some serious good shape...

We were expected to be able to keep up and do all the same things, so that argument, really, only makes sense to politicians and academics...

EDIT: Ya'll are right, though. Most male soldiers, if honest, will admit it's their problem with instinctive protection rather than their view of women's ability. Which again is odd since male soldiers risk their lives for their male buddies all the time, anyway.

[samcarterrules]

Hi,

I've been looking everyone's sigs, their great, I would love to make one but I don't know how, can someone point me in the right direction please? Help really appreciated Thanks.

Julia(samcarterrules)

[stargate barbie]

Hi,

I've been looking everyone's sigs, their great, I would love to make one but I don't know how, can someone point me in the right direction please? Help really appreciated Thanks.

Julia(samcarterrules)

you should look up suekay. she used to frequent the s/j shipper thread, but i don't know if she still does. she makes hers on some program that she downloaded for free. i'm sure if you PM her she'd be happy to help you out.

[Uber]

Wow.

Post Number Five Thousand. Can you believe it? I can hear many of you now: "You're a yammermouth, of COURSE I believe it!"

Fair enough.

It's only appropriate then that on this momentous occasion I yammer away and spam our beloved Samanda with a bunch of mushy sentiments about what makes this thread so special to me.

First of all, it goes without saying, that without Amanda Tapping, there'd be no Samanda. There'd be no common ground for us all to congregate in this manner. Carter is an amazing character...and I believe due in no small part to the amazing woman who's breathed life into her for the past decade.

But beneath the object our our appreciation lie the appreciators themselves. The people of Samanda. People that it is my honor and privilege to call friends.

People like Skydiver and Spazzy, SG1Poz and Myrth, ForeverSG1 and scarimor and tsaxlady and Agent Dark and minigeek and Tracy Jane and MandySG1 and golfbooy and ChopinGal and Strix....Egads! Just so many names! So many more than the short list I just typed off the top of my head just now...from all walks of life representing countries from all over the world.

You make this a great place to be with your creative vision and humor and style. The deep conversations about what Carter should or shouldn't do or as or hasn't done. Always looking beneath the obvious to what lies beneath.

The artwork so many of you come up with...the fan fiction...the videos...just...wow. Such creative energy here.

And our convention goers! Thank you for sharing of yourselves and your stories and pictures. Thank you for involving us and making us a part of these events! I can't express enough my appreciation and gratitude with your willingness to share in your experiences.

And long after SG-1 has left the screen and Amanda has moved on to bigger and better things, I will still call so many of you friends as we follow her career wherever it takes her.

To the stars and beyond.

Long live Samanda.

[Tracy Jane]

Congrats on 5000, Oooooooobs.

[scarimor]

congratulations
ÜberSG-1Fan

And a lovely post #5000 it was too

[Mandysg1]

Wow.

Post Number Five Thousand. Can you believe it? I can hear many of you now: "You're a yammermouth, of COURSE I believe it!"

Fair enough.

It's only appropriate then that on this momentous occasion I yammer away and spam our beloved Samanda with a bunch of mushy sentiments about what makes this thread so special to me.

First of all, it goes without saying, that without Amanda Tapping, there'd be no Samanda. There'd be no common ground for us all to congregate in this manner. Carter is an amazing character...and I believe due in no small part to the amazing woman who's breathed life into her for the past decade.

But beneath the object our our appreciation lie the appreciators themselves. The people of Samanda. People that it is my honor and privilege to call friends.

People like Skydiver and Spazzy, SG1Poz and Myrth, ForeverSG1 and scarimor and tsaxlady and Agent Dark and minigeek and Tracy Jane and MandySG1 and golfbooy and ChopinGal and Strix....Egads! Just so many names! So many more than the short list I just typed off the top of my head just now...from all walks of life representing countries from all over the world.

You make this a great place to be with your creative vision and humor and style. The deep conversations about what Carter should or shouldn't do or as or hasn't done. Always looking beneath the obvious to what lies beneath.

The artwork so many of you come up with...the fan fiction...the videos...just...wow. Such creative energy here.

And our convention goers! Thank you for sharing of yourselves and your stories and pictures. Thank you for involving us and making us a part of these events! I can't express enough my appreciation and gratitude with your willingness to share in your experiences.

And long after SG-1 has left the screen and Amanda has moved on to bigger and better things, I will still call so many of you friends as we follow her career wherever it takes her.

To the stars and beyond.

Long live Samanda.

Awww Congrats yammermouth ÜberSG-1Fan, on this momentous occasion, I feel it only right to use your correct name (cut & paste is my friend ) Wow 5000 posts and still going, it just goes to show how deep you truely are