Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[Mandysg1]

And I admit I'm baffled by the confusion here. The canon is unequivocal, right from the beginning:

CotG (episode one!): Sam tells us she has indeed done a simulated bombing run in an F-16: something which only a pilot in the USAF would do (unless the F-16 was a futuristic sentient model from the 28th century and all Carter had to do was sit back and do some... oh, I dunno... knitting).

Covenant: Sam pilots an F-302. Yup. She does that sitting in the front seat, controling the aircraft, making it go up and down and roundabout piloty thing.

What gives?

Yea, I always took it as Sam being a pilot right from episode 1, I think the confusion came because of the mistakes in her fruit salad. They probably only thought about making O'Neill's look good (even if it wasn't accurate either )

[minigeek]

I'm going to go against the flow of logic here and say that from the very first episode, I understood (whether that was intended or not intended) that Sam WAS a pilot. From that moment on (for me) she was a pilot, I liked the fact that she was a pilot, and (as a viewer) I could really care less at this point what weird incontinuity issues and/or "proof"/"disproof" arguments come up with respect to this issue because in my mind, Sam Carter's character is, was, and forever will be a pilot in the USAF. And that's good enough for me.

[RealmOfX]

Yea, I always took it as Sam being a pilot right from episode 1, I think the confusion came because of the mistakes in her fruit salad. They probably only thought about making O'Neill's look good (even if it wasn't accurate either )

And also some people thought that because the F16 did come as a 2 seater (not realising only for training purposes) that there might have been a chance she was navigator especially because she didn't say she flew in the Gulf but rather "I logged over 100 hours in enemy airspace". So I can see why there was confusion previously because I was in this group until we had this discussion a few months back.

[the dancer of spaz]

Ah, dammit. I was at work (or possibly asleep?) when you had the LJ talk last night. There's actually a Samandan community which I set up when Sky last asked about it (though I haven't had chance to work on layouts or anything recently). *shrug* Oh well.

No, no! Keep it! And let us know when you have a layout going. I think it'll be good to have a Samandan LJ for the ficathon in Nov-Dec, and a Gate_Women LJ that encompasses ALL of the Stargate women (including Janet, Lam, Cadman, Dr. Heightmeyer, etc.).

In my hippie-esque ways, I'd really just like to unite the factions of the fandom who give a hoot about meaningful friendships between the female characters, just in case we don't get a whole lot of it before either series goes away. But I think it'd be great for you to keep working on the Samanda LJ, Trace.

[the dancer of spaz]

I'm going to go against the flow of logic here and say that from the very first episode, I understood (whether that was intended or not intended) that Sam WAS a pilot. From that moment on (for me) she was a pilot, I liked the fact that she was a pilot, and (as a viewer) I could really care less at this point what weird incontinuity issues and/or "proof"/"disproof" arguments come up with respect to this issue because in my mind, Sam Carter's character is, was, and forever will be a pilot in the USAF. And that's good enough for me.

I'm gonna have to go with mini on this one. As much as I love the fact that there are so many anal retentive astute fans who can point out the details and the discrepancies at every turn (I kinda like to be edumacated every once in a while), I am definitely of the belief that spoken canon is more important and MUCH more reliable than prop canon, or whatever AD called it. For one thing, if we had to rely on the props crew to get every detail right for it to be true canon, wouldn't Sam and Jack have been like nine different ranks throughout the ten-year history?

I always understood she was a pilot, not only because I never bothered to look at her "fruit salad" until the beginning of this year - I didn't even KNOW what a fruit salad was until this year - but because it was the basic establishment of her character. This was her history, this was her background, and no one questioned it. So, of course, when they never brought it up again for whatever reasons, it was irritating. And don't EVEN get me started on Fragile Balance.

Her piloting background (thanks to that one line in CotG and the moments in S2/Fallen/Homecoming/Covenant/etc) is good enough for me too. I just wish they'd expand upon it every once in a while.

/me files that away in the "Neeeever Gonna Happen" category

[scarimor]

I'm going to go against the flow of logic here and say that from the very first episode, I understood (whether that was intended or not intended) that Sam WAS a pilot.

Why is that against the flow of logic? It is the only logical conclusion one can draw from that conversation around the briefing table in CotG.

From that moment on (for me) she was a pilot, I liked the fact that she was a pilot, and (as a viewer) I could really care less at this point what weird incontinuity issues and/or "proof"/"disproof" arguments come up with respect to this issue because in my mind, Sam Carter's character is, was, and forever will be a pilot in the USAF. And that's good enough for me.

Me too. It seems to me that the only incontinuity issue is the slip-up with her uniform "decor" - and they've slipped up far more in that department elsewhere.

Her piloting background (thanks to that one line in CotG and the moments in S2/Fallen/Homecoming/Covenant/etc) is good enough for me too. I just wish they'd expand upon it every once in a while.

phew, back to my original question What were those S2/Fallen/Homecoming references?

[the dancer of spaz]

phew, back to my original question What were those S2/Fallen/Homecoming references?

Ohhh, there weren't any verbal references by the character - she just did it. I suppose the season premiere of S2 doesn't count, since they were getting the heck outta Dodge, but in Fallen/Homecoming (can't remember which one), she flew shotgun along with Jack in that crazy mission she devised. And in Covenant, she flew one on her own with Colson. I think those were the only times, right?

[scarimor]

And also some people thought that because the F16 did come as a 2 seater (not realising only for training purposes) that there might have been a chance she was navigator especially because she didn't say she flew in the Gulf but rather "I logged over 100 hours in enemy airspace". So I can see why there was confusion previously because I was in this group until we had this discussion a few months back.

A navigator? Really? I can't think of anything in the show that points to her having trained as a navigator.

Did people also think that Jack must be a navigator because the costuming dept neglected to put wings on his chest too?

[the dancer of spaz]

A navigator? Really? I can't think of anything in the show that points to her having trained as a navigator.

Did people also think that Jack must be a navigator because the costuming dept neglected to put wings on his chest too?

What does a navigator do?

Besides the obvious.

[scarimor]

What does a navigator do?

Besides the obvious.

The navigator plans and then directs airborne missions. I'm sure Sam could do that just fine - she'd be especially suited to dealing with all the electronic devices which modern navigators use (better described as weapons systems officers these days).

But that's not what she was doing in Covenant in that F-306, and it's not what she'd have been doing in a USAF's viper (F-16) either.

[Rachel500]

My two cents on Sam and piloting...(or as I'm in England two pence)...

Sam's a pilot. I believe that was meant to be the inference in CoTG; she's been shown flying second seat twice; piloting once. I don't question that Sam IS a pilot.

The missing silverware on her uniform only tells me that she doesn't qualify to have the wings - I'm not sure exactly what the qualification is but presumably if it is like JAG where Harm had to keep taking quals to maintain his status, the air force has something similar, and I don't think she's kept taking the quals on F16s or whatever the equivalent is these days (ie non-alien tech) to keep her official 'wings' - she's too busy saving the world.

[Rachel500]

Sam pilot question:

In Children of the Gods (season 1), we learn than Sam piloted an F-16 in the Gulf.

In Covenant (season 8), we see Sam pilot an F-302 at the Alpha Site.

Are there any other such instances or references to Sam piloting aircraft / aerospace craft in the show?

Ah, the original question. Hmmm.

CoTG - verbal references made where the inference could be Sam is a pilot

In the Serpent's Lair - 2nd seat in a glider to Teal'c but there's no way she could really have known how to fly it at that point.

Watergate - Does parachuting count?

Redemption Pt 1 (I think) - 2nd seat to O'Neill in the X302

The episode where they crash the ship in the ocean in S6 whose name escapes me - Sam is 2nd seat to Teal'c in a glider again.

Fallen - 2nd Seat to O'Neill in the X302

Fragile Balance - Ordered to take over briefing the F302 pilots when Jack becomes mini-sized.

Covenant - 1st seat

I can't think of any others....hope this helps.

[scarimor]

Thanks Rachel!

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

A real aircraft. Simulated in this context means practise in an aircraft. As someone who occasionally experiences Air Force pilots' simulated bombing runs from down on the ground, I can assure you it's a real aircraft! (and sometimes scarily close, I should add).

Yeesh! Not over populated areas, I hope?

But why would you question it? We know she's a pilot. We've seen her pilot an aircraft. What's the deal here? Is there some other reference in the show which suggests she was doing something else in enemy airspace?

I don't question it, actually. I never said she wasn't a pilot, either. I've seen her pilot the air/space ships or planes or whatever they are, too. I just meant that she may not have been the pilot during her air time over the Gulf. The way my bro-in-law(retired air forces, Canada) tells it, what goes on in the back of the plane is often far more complex than what goes on in the cockpit, and I just imagine Sam's technical prowess in that regard would be more useful to a mission than her flying skills.

As to the F16, I simply know for a fact that women were not piloting F16s over enemy air space during the first Gulf war - unless they were sent out on some super-duper-ultra-even more secret than usual, double-locked classified missions that I wouldn't know about.

I know, I'm terribly anal retentive about these things. It must be the last vestiges of the fic writer still in me. <shrugs>

[Mandysg1]

Yeesh! Not over populated areas, I hope?




I don't question it, actually. I never said she wasn't a pilot, either. I've seen her pilot the air/space ships or planes or whatever they are, too. I just meant that she may not have been the pilot during her air time over the Gulf. The way my bro-in-law(retired air forces, Canada) tells it, what goes on in the back of the plane is often far more complex than what goes on in the cockpit, and I just imagine Sam's technical prowess in that regard would be more useful to a mission than her flying skills.

As to the F16, I simply know for a fact that women were not piloting F16s over enemy air space during the first Gulf war - unless they were sent out on some super-duper-ultra-even more secret than usual, double-locked classified missions that I wouldn't know about.
I know, I'm terribly anal retentive about these things. It must be the last vestiges of the fic writer still in me. <shrugs>

Well ya see, someone asked, "what pilots do we have on base?" And someone else answered "we have Sam Carter." Then the first guy said "Okay send him up?"

And of course they didn't notice Sam was a woman since she was wearing her helmet and flight gear