Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[L.A. Doyle]

Well I understand some of Bink's issues as I share them....but I liked Pegasus Project.

Here's a post I did on the Anti Season 10 thread about the things that bothered me and, just so you understand the context, it was in response to someone who didn't understand my Mitchell issues.

Spoiler:

For me, Mitchell's been all over the map. There were times when we saw more military-minded/serious Mitchell like Avalon 1 and Flesh and Blood, then there were times when he was acting completely on impulses and whims like Stronghold and Off the Grid then we saw him at other times trying to be the funny guy yucking it up...

I remember Ben saying they didn't want to nail him down to any one personality because they were trying to figure out what works. But as long as Coop continues to think of Mitchell as the intergalactic screw up with such glee, I am going to have a hard time taking him seriously.

I was much happier with his characterization in Pegasus Project. At first I was irked by the fact that Shep

Spoiler:

gave the lemon to Mitchell rather than Sam, who was the one who'd have to spend more time with McKay. And then Agent Dark suggested it was due to the fact that Sam had probably already built up enough McKay defenses of her own that she wouldn't need the prop and that made sense to me on some level. Further I was irritated by Mitchell jumping in and defending Sam against McKay because she knew out to take care of herself just fine around him. But then the more I thought about it, she did great on her own and didn't need Mitchell to help...and as long as he knew she didn't need him to ride to her rescue, it was a nice gesture of support.

I still stand by my sense that so far, Season 10 is much better than all of Season 9. There are a few episodes I'm really looking forward to and then there are others that are like landmines of awfulness just waiting to blow.

I quoted all that to say...I agree.

[L.A. Doyle]

About the Mitchell scene in TPP

Spoiler:

involving the lemon. Shepp gave Mitchell the lemon in what felt like a pretty natural exchange to me. When Mitchell threatened McKay with it, it also worked. Mitchell and Shepp are goofy enough to get away with doing something like that, but it wouldn't have felt natural to me if it had been Sam. Sam does not threaten people's lives with lemons. Besides, if it had been Sam doing the threatening, McKay's reaction to her wouldn't have been the same. He would have snapped back at her with some wise-ass comment and gone his merry way because he knows he has nothing to fear from Sam. (She saved his life, afterall!). But he was unfamiliar with Mitchell, so the threat took him off-guard. He didn't know how to react, and he wasn't expecting it. That's the only reason why the scene worked for me. I think I would have disliked it if it had been Sam.

And I agree with Strix, too!

Spoiler:

Actually, the lemon scene doesn't bother me. But you both have good ideas about it. I would have liked to see more Sheppard, but I'm thinking TPTB have the same issues with him as Jack. They are both way cooler than Mitchell will ever be and would only show him up...so they avoided having him on there more than necessary. Just MHO.

[NearlyCircular]

About the Mitchell scene in TPP

Spoiler:

involving the lemon. Shepp gave Mitchell the lemon in what felt like a pretty natural exchange to me. When Mitchell threatened McKay with it, it also worked. Mitchell and Shepp are goofy enough to get away with doing something like that, but it wouldn't have felt natural to me if it had been Sam. Sam does not threaten people's lives with lemons. Besides, if it had been Sam doing the threatening, McKay's reaction to her wouldn't have been the same. He would have snapped back at her with some wise-ass comment and gone his merry way because he knows he has nothing to fear from Sam. (She saved his life, afterall!). But he was unfamiliar with Mitchell, so the threat took him off-guard. He didn't know how to react, and he wasn't expecting it. That's the only reason why the scene worked for me. I think I would have disliked it if it had been Sam.

I agree that it was well played, and had to be written the way it was to progress the story, and I liked the way it played out throughout the episode. But,

Spoiler:

I associate the lemon bit with Sam and Rodney. I don't think it's been addressed in Atlantis before, has it? I guess in my Sam-centered universe, I can believe that Sam took Sheppard aside before the original Atlantis expedition and had the same conversation that we saw with Shep and Mitchell in Pegasus.

NC

[NearlyCircular]

And I agree with Strix, too!

Spoiler:

Actually, the lemon scene doesn't bother me. But you both have good ideas about it. I would have liked to see more Sheppard, but I'm thinking TPTB have the same issues with him as Jack. They are both way cooler than Mitchell will ever be and would only show him up...so they avoided having him on there more than necessary. Just MHO.

About the part in red that I highlighted in your quote, am I recalling correctly that

Spoiler:

TPTB nixed more interacton between Shep and Mitchell during this episode, saying they were saving it for the movie?

NC

[L.A. Doyle]

About the part in red that I highlighted in your quote, am I recalling correctly that

Spoiler:

TPTB nixed more interacton between Shep and Mitchell during this episode, saying they were saving it for the movie?

NC

Spoiler:

Well, if I get a movie, alright! But how serious are they about it? With so many conflicting reports, I just don't know if we'll ever get one.

[jckfan55]

My sincerest apologies for not using spoilers on this - I was just livid when I wrote it and did not even think since the ep aired - I know it has not aired everywhere and my mind was not with me. I am sorry Tracy Jane I truly regret that you saw the spoilers - likewise to all others who may have been spoiled by my trangression.



I have not seen this one yet - and may in fact skip it by the sound of some of this crapola (IMO crapola). I did catch that littel AOL thing they have now and I was immensely annoyed by the fact that mitchell (tool that he is and after this I will never accept or like him in this role - he is intrusive as someone here has pointed out and he is waaay too gee-whiz and hewo macho-man cliche) got the

Spoiler:

lemon line and actual lemon

- this IS Sam's and should be Sam's no matter what may come. mitchell did not even exist when the

Spoiler:

Carter/McKay lemon stuff

happened and I resent the fact that TPKTS continuously try to make mitchell acceptable by giving him the things that used to be Carter's and should be Carter's, or Daniel's or Teal'c's -

Spoiler:

that lemon thing

is just ridiculous IMO. Like I say at work - the people in charge do not realize how much the "little things" can add up and TPKTS have a ton of little things that have, in combination with the really BIG thing, made me leave this show--

Spoiler:

Carter had leadership - they gave it to tool, Carter had the motorcycle thing - they gave it to tool, Carter had lemons on McKay - they gave it to tool, Carter had Jolinar and ability to use Goaould tech - they gave it to the other tool

- what a crock o' crapola (I really want to say sh-- but can't but you get my meaning).

What they have done to this character, plus the deadly boring Ori, a storyline that I just abhor, and the equally boring Lucian Aliance and the sci-fi cliche use of ships and convenient beaming technology to get themselves out of scrapes, I find that I just cannot stand this show anymore. It is NOT SG-1 -- it is a less-then-mediocre sci-fi show rife with caricatures, cliches and mockable nonsense. It is not a show I would have spent 5 minutes watching if not for the lure of the BIG 3. Now that the BIG 3, well at least 2 of them, are emascualted to where, IMO, they are unrecognizable, it's time to finally give up that last teeny, tiny glimmer of hope I had. It is gone.

I also cant believe that crap (which was also in the AOL piece -

Spoiler:

where McKay is being a jerk and mitchell has to step-in with that macho-face as if to say shut-up or I'll clock you. Since when does CARTER, of all people, need a putz like mitchell to step in and protect her from the likes of a McKay. Carter could wipe the floor with McKay and she has defended herself from worse than poor silly Rod -- Emancipation anyone.

I can honestly and truly say, without even seeing PP that I hate mitchell and he has single-handedly ruined this show for me and TPKTS have ruined the Carter character for me.

TPKTS have, IMO, emasculated Carter and the character no longer holds any intrigue or joy for me. They have taken away what was, IMO, the heart of the character. They have given everything that was Carter's to mitchell (or vala) in order to make one of the weakest characters I have ever seen seem like they matter or seem like they belong - what a waste and what a real shame.

To AT if you see this - I am sorry and if you are having fun this season and if you appreciate the direction that they have taken for Cater I am happy for you - I, however, can no longer sit by and watch what, IMO, is the complete and total dismantling of what was once my favorite character on TV. A strong, independent, intelligent female lead. I truly fear for the character as S10 continues - seems to be lots

Spoiler:

of mitchell "saving" Carter

and being the hewo. Thus far my fears from spoilers have been realized, and beyond even my worst fears.

I will say nothing about the dismantling and emasculation of Teal'c, which, in a lot of ways, IMO, is worse than what they have done to Carter.

Such a shame that this is the only way they can make such a weak character like mitchell seem like he belongs and is capable of being part of this team - by emascualting the 2 really strong, warriors/soldiers. I am disgusted and angry and disappointed and sad all wrapped into one. I do fear that this is it - I have long wondered when I would be able to cut that last tie to the videotape and I think that PP will be the ending point for me. I have enjoyed the ride and I thank AT for 6 1/2 really great seasons of Carter with 1 1/2 seasons of Carter on the slide however I dare not say anything further with regard to S9 or what I have seen inS10 - it's just not there for me and I truly am sorry.

To TPKTS - as a fan (or former fan) who you have clearly told to f-off I will likely take my permanent leave from this show and, as I have said before, now I really won't count - I have not counted since episode 1 of S9 and I never will count again. I hope you are happy with your 1.4s and 1.6s. Hey Brad are you disheartened - good - cuz so am I and you have finally done it - I don't know whether to thank you or not since I have been trying since mid-season 7 to lose this show - now I think I can.

To everyone on this thread - thanks for playing. I have enjoyed it and I wish you all well. I hope that S10 improves and that you find something to enjoy - it is all in the perception and opinion and unfortunately mine is negative and likely always will be from here on. I may lurk a while to see if anything strikes my fancy (maybe the second half will improve but I won't be holding my breath) and to see if AT gets out of this disaster and moves on to something else worth her talent. If she does I would like to know since I would likely at least take a look at what she does next because I really do think that of the bunch on the show she certainly has the most talent.

Take care everyone. See ya.

One last thing - but certainly not least - I would like to thank Sally for starting this thread many moons and almost 48,000 posts ago.

I'm not quite as negative but definitely see your points. 2 points you mention re: Pegasus Project were actually somewhat tolerable to me b/c of the way they were handled.

Spoiler:

Cam getting the lemon thing--only acceptable because it was Sheppard who tipped him off--Cam didn't know about it before hand. And Cam stepping in to "protect" Sam. Definitely annoying & as you say, Sam can handle herself. But see I don't think Sam was even paying attention to Rodney at that point. So to me, it was more a Cam problem than any diminishment of Sam.

[DEM]

Pegasus

Spoiler:

The Lemon Thing

But,

Spoiler:

I associate the lemon bit with Sam and Rodney. I don't think it's been addressed in Atlantis before, has it?

Yeah, see, my lack of knowledge

Spoiler:

of Atlantis was what kept me from getting too worked up over it. However, it was supposed to be an SG-1 episode, afterall (not an Atlantis episode), so whether or not Shep has used a lemon with McKay before is irrelevant. The writer used a clever trick of transitivity in order to give something of Carter's to Mitchell. Others have said this here and elsewhere, and I think they're onto something: The writer didn't seem to know quite what to do with Mitchell, so he gave him bits and pieces of what would have been others' stuff. Twasn't just limited to The Lemon Thing.

[jckfan55]

I'm not sure but I have a vague sense that

Spoiler:

Rodney's citrus allegery has been mentioned in Atlantis, though not the idea of Sheppard threatening him with a lemon. The idea of him needing to eat to keep his blood sugar up has definitely been covered in Atlantis.

(reference to Pegasus Project)

[Rachel500]

I'm not sure but I have a vague sense that

Spoiler:

Rodney's citrus allegery has been mentioned in Atlantis, though not the idea of Sheppard threatening him with a lemon. The idea of him needing to eat to keep his blood sugar up has definitely been covered in Atlantis.

(reference to Pegasus Project)

It has...it was in the final scene of Rising Part 2.

[parsifal]

It has...it was in the final scene of Rising Part 2.

It was also mentioned in "Duet".

[Tracy Jane]

Hmmm, now, I've just watched The Pegasus Project, and thought I'd give my tuppence worth...

Spoiler:

My only real problem with it was that there were too many characters. I loved seeing them all, and there was none of it that I would have wanted to lose. I think that Shep and Mitchell work well together, bounce well off each other for the odd line. I really liked the Sam/Weir moment, and the stuff with Daniel, Morgan and Vala was excellent. The thing is, it was so packed that you were just left reeling. I kinda wish they had extended it into a two parter, or a special 60 minute episode. With so many characters shoved in there, it gets a bit mangled.

I didn't mind the whole lemon bit, it worked for me. And it was a nice way to try and involve Mitchell, who, let's face it, was a little left out during the episode, because he doesn't belong.

I also really love the way Cam stood up for Sam like that, though I kinda wish Sam had made a little comment about not needing him to back her up. It was a nice friendship moment and I really like it, but I also think Sam should have shown that touch of independance there. Saying that, though, her back was turned, so she may not have noticed.

All in all, I really enjoyed the episode.

[WhatFateAlmondRoca]

To everyone on this thread - thanks for playing. I have enjoyed it and I wish you all well. I hope that S10 improves and that you find something to enjoy - it is all in the perception and opinion and unfortunately mine is negative and likely always will be from here on. I may lurk a while to see if anything strikes my fancy (maybe the second half will improve but I won't be holding my breath) and to see if AT gets out of this disaster and moves on to something else worth her talent. If she does I would like to know since I would likely at least take a look at what she does next because I really do think that of the bunch on the show she certainly has the most talent.

Take care everyone. See ya.

One last thing - but certainly not least - I would like to thank Sally for starting this thread many moons and almost 48,000 posts ago.

BINK: Please don't even THINK of leaving Samanda. I enjoy and value your thoughtful posts. (I'm sure the fact that I agree with you doesn't come into play at all. ) Seriously, you still have much to contribute about AT - there are many seasons to discuss besides 9 & 10. There's going to be stuff coming down the pike for her besides Stargate and I'd rather continue sharing the thread with you! Please - its all about me and I say don't leave!

[Uber]

I agree that it was well played, and had to be written the way it was to progress the story, and I liked the way it played out throughout the episode. But,

Spoiler:

I associate the lemon bit with Sam and Rodney. I don't think it's been addressed in Atlantis before, has it? I guess in my Sam-centered universe, I can believe that Sam took Sheppard aside before the original Atlantis expedition and had the same conversation that we saw with Shep and Mitchell in Pegasus.

NC

Okay I just rewatched Pegasus Project and, if possible, I like it even more on this viewing.

Spoiler:

Firstly, I agree with Strix about the lemon thing now. It makes sense given the perspective she provided. FURTHER, another interesting character beat is that right after Shep left Mitchell, he turned around and Sam saw him and apparently the lemon and she was smiling. She saw the lemon and knew exactly what that was about. How cute is that??? So I feel better about that now. It also seems that Sam clues Mitchell in about McKay too because there are several beats...like the Mitchell getting irked at McKay for correcting him about black holes and accretion disks..."which is COOL" that Sam is holding back a smile (or at least trying to) and the look she gives Mitchell is kind of amusement mixed with, "See...I tried to prepare ya."

Further, I like how after Sam had repeatedly shot McKay down that Mitchell stepped in. He wasn't "white knighting" here. He knew she could handle herself but he also knew she had stuff to do and could be spared the excess attention McKay gave her. Right after Sam tore into him about being on the clock and they had to take the chance and McKay I think was about to say how he found her recklessness se... (sexy, I'll bet), Mitchell's stare down was fitting for that moment. I don't think he thought of her as a damsel in distress...but rather a co-worker getting her fill and needing a break. That worked for me.

Then we get to the lemon scene. That worked for me too. It's clear that Mitchell and Shep swapped McKay stories and the timing was right on for that scene. Sam didn't mind it either it looked to me because again...she'd already spent a lot of time swatting him down.

Another great character beat...Mitchell tells Teal'c to hang loose and Teal'c comments back, "I am hanging loosely ColonelMitchell." Look at the shot of Sam. I'm betting there was an adlib there because it seems to me that Amanda's trying not to bust up laughing. There's definite stifling going on there.

McKay has his idea about 2 bombs and Sam figures it out before he says it. Yay.

And then the coup de grace...SAM tells them to head back toward the black hole to put the Wraith ship at a disadvantage, giving them the opportunity to beam the nukes over. SAM saved them with that idea! Plus we have the added effect of Teal'c taking it a step further and luring the Ori ship into his trap. Two baddies with one stone...thanks to Sam and Teal'c and they got the jump to work, thus connecting the Ori gate with the black hole. The heroes for Pegasus Project were Sam and Teal'c.

Let me say that again because it feels good.

The heroes for Pegasus Project were SAM AND TEAL'C.

And once again for good measure....

The heroes for Pegasus Project were SAM AND TEAL'C.

*squee*

[L.A. Doyle]

Okay I just rewatched Pegasus Project and, if possible, I like it even more on this viewing.

Spoiler:

Firstly, I agree with Strix about the lemon thing now. It makes sense given the perspective she provided. FURTHER, another interesting character beat is that right after Shep left Mitchell, he turned around and Sam saw him and apparently the lemon and she was smiling. She saw the lemon and knew exactly what that was about. How cute is that??? So I feel better about that now. It also seems that Sam clues Mitchell in about McKay too because there are several beats...like the Mitchell getting irked at McKay for correcting him about black holes and accretion disks..."which is COOL" that Sam is holding back a smile (or at least trying to) and the look she gives Mitchell is kind of amusement mixed with, "See...I tried to prepare ya."

Further, I like how after Sam had repeatedly shot McKay down that Mitchell stepped in. He wasn't "white knighting" here. He knew she could handle herself but he also knew she had stuff to do and could be spared the excess attention McKay gave her. Right after Sam tore into him about being on the clock and they had to take the chance and McKay I think was about to say how he found her recklessness se... (sexy, I'll bet), Mitchell's stare down was fitting for that moment. I don't think he thought of her as a damsel in distress...but rather a co-worker getting her fill and needing a break. That worked for me.

Then we get to the lemon scene. That worked for me too. It's clear that Mitchell and Shep swapped McKay stories and the timing was right on for that scene. Sam didn't mind it either it looked to me because again...she'd already spent a lot of time swatting him down.

Another great character beat...Mitchell tells Teal'c to hang loose and Teal'c comments back, "I am hanging loosely ColonelMitchell." Look at the shot of Sam. I'm betting there was an adlib there because it seems to me that Amanda's trying not to bust up laughing. There's definite stifling going on there.

McKay has his idea about 2 bombs and Sam figures it out before he says it. Yay.

And then the coup de grace...SAM tells them to head back toward the black hole to put the Wraith ship at a disadvantage, giving them the opportunity to beam the nukes over. SAM saved them with that idea! Plus we have the added effect of Teal'c taking it a step further and luring the Ori ship into his trap. Two baddies with one stone...thanks to Sam and Teal'c and they got the jump to work, thus connecting the Ori gate with the black hole. The heroes for Pegasus Project were Sam and Teal'c.

Let me say that again because it feels good.

The heroes for Pegasus Project were SAM AND TEAL'C.

And once again for good measure....

The heroes for Pegasus Project were SAM AND TEAL'C.

*squee*

I shall squee with you Ooooober!!!

SSSSSSQQQQQQUUUUUEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Great analysis!

[kes]

I couldn't find the video with the Ba'al clips

Its the Pegasus project clip. The last 20 secs or so.