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**Rottie** · 25 July 2006, 04:27 AM

*passes out with exhaustion"
Wow so many posts....

**minigeek** · 25 July 2006, 05:09 AM

Originally posted by AmberLM

Please don't shoot me but I'm getting slightly more optimistic about S10. I think TPTB are trying to fix one character per episode. I mean, so far we've had:

Spoiler:

LOL Amber. Aww, no shooting required. I'm more optimistic about season ten than nine, myself. I've come to terms with the fact that the show is never going to be what it once was, however I do still have quite a bit of stored affection for these characters and I'm cautiously optimistic for their further development. It's all buttah!

'Nuff said.
mg

**Skydiver** · 25 July 2006, 07:11 AM

hey, great for the positive folks.

i'm honstly glad that others are enjoying things more than i am.

**Strix varia** · 25 July 2006, 07:24 AM

Originally posted by Skydiver

hey, great for the positive folks.

i'm honstly glad that others are enjoying things more than i am.

Yeah, me too. Happy people are good for the world. And continued employment for the folks working on the show would be a good thing, too.

**ShimmeringStar** · 25 July 2006, 07:47 AM

Originally posted by Originally Posted by Gate gal

It would get way too confusing. I'm o.k. with the new schedule, but I watch Battlestar as well. I like the idea of new programming year round. I do hope that it doesn't hurt SG1's ratings, but I really don't think it will have that much of an effect on them. I do however think the lack of Stargate Mondays will cause ratings problems. (So many new veiwers started because of a classic SG1 episode on a Monday.) We are lost without them at my house! Sam withdrawls are not a good thing! It was easier to tolerate the lack of Sam in season 9, because we enjoyed the real Sam on Monday nights.

Originally posted by L.A. Doyle

*Raises hand* ME!!! And my roommate...and because we were addicted, now my brother and best friend are. Stargate Mondays changed my life!

And where are they now?

IMOHO, again just MOHO, it may well affect ratings, if only because it lessens the opportunity for casual viewers to 'just happen' upon the show and get hooked.

I was amazed (and happy) when I realized SciFi was showing it so often when I first started to watch. (5 nights a week at 6 p.m. (EST) and nearly all evening on Monday nights) It made it so easy to pick up on the mythology, the story arcs, the characters quirks, the team chemistry, etc. But after 2, nearly 3 years at the heaviest of syndication rotations for such a recently-filmed show... Meguesses Skiffy is ready to move on, kind of doing what they did 3-4 years ago when Farscape was their big draw and that was coming to an end. Skiffy had already started their SG heavy rotation before FS ended and had managed to snare a lot more of us around the end of S6 and into S7 who'd never had Showtime, but did have SciFi on our cable or statellite channels. We liked what we saw and wanted more!

And another way to look at it, too, is that the old, pre-S9 mythology doesn't fit too well into the 'New Look' SG. The earlier seasons would almost be like false advertising 'cause what you see in the older shows you most certainly ain't gonna get in the new eps. So if you want new viewers to get hooked on what you're currently producing/promoting... you might not want so much of that "old product" floating around out there.

I know I'm not really promoting post S9 SG to anyone. If you have cable and can watch the old shows and don't mind watching them out of order - do it. If you have the wherewithal to buy DVD's... do it too. But... I know I just found out after Shore Leave that the woman in the office next to mine watches (*very* casually) SG. She asked how my week off was & I told her I'd spent the weekend with friends and had tried out my new camera out at a fan convention & *lurved* it. I only had the Amanda candid (from the autograph line) up in the LJ gallery at that point, but told her "C'mere" and showed her it and her eyes went all wide and she said "I know her!" Come to find out she watches SG every once and a while (the OLD SG) and *lurves* it. I say all that because after I did a quick fangurl gush about who all I'd seen at the con, I was ready to open my mouth and say "Hey - you know the new season starts this Friday." But I didn't. Because if she liked the old SG - *shakes head* IMOHO as the most casual of viewers, she probably wouldn't like the New SG. (And she's never watched FS, so Ben/Claudia hold no real interest to her....)

Ah well.... I'm sorry to see Stargate Mondays go. Wonder how long 'til they take away the 6 p.m. showings?

**astrogeologist** · 25 July 2006, 08:01 AM

Originally posted by ShimmeringStar

And another way to look at it, too, is that the old, pre-S9 mythology doesn't fit too well into the 'New Look' SG. The earlier seasons would almost be like false advertising 'cause what you see in the older shows you most certainly ain't gonna get in the new eps. So if you want new viewers to get hooked on what you're currently producing/promoting... you might not want so much of that "old product" floating around out there.

The following is spoilered, not because it contains episode references from Season 10, but rather because it is a general discourse on the direction of Stargate (rather than a Sam-specific post)

Spoiler:

**Gate gal** · 25 July 2006, 08:13 AM

Originally posted by minigeek

LOL Amber. Aww, no shooting required. I'm more optimistic about season ten than nine, myself. I've come to terms with the fact that the show is never going to be what it once was, however I do still have quite a bit of stored affection for these characters and I'm cautiously optimistic for their further development. It's all buttah!

'Nuff said.
mg

Glad I'm not alone! I'm enjoying the new season, too. I like the way you put it (orange). It isn't our SG1 any more, but it is still a lot better than most of the stuff on t.v. lately. We still have Sam, Daniel, and Teal'c, so there is hope for the series. (No Sam, no series!) Personally, I like the new guys. Vala may actually become one of my favorites if they keep her toned down. And Cameron, well, if it weren't for the leadership thing, I'd like him a lot more, but that's another topic.

**Linwelin** · 25 July 2006, 08:38 AM

Hi, everybody here...

Well, I think it's time for me to come in here with you, as I've long been a Sam fan (since the first episode aired in France, as far as I can remember...).

What decided me are the two following quotes :

Originally posted by minigeek

LOL Amber. Aww, no shooting required. I'm more optimistic about season ten than nine, myself. I've come to terms with the fact that the show is never going to be what it once was, however I do still have quite a bit of stored affection for these characters and I'm cautiously optimistic for their further development. It's all buttah!

'Nuff said.
mg

Originally posted by Gate gal

Glad I'm not alone! I'm enjoying the new season, too. I like the way you put it (orange). It isn't our SG1 any more, but it is still a lot better than most of the stuff on t.v. lately. We still have Sam, Daniel, and Teal'c, so there is hope for the series. (No Sam, no series!) Personally, I like the new guys. Vala may actually become one of my favorites if they keep her toned down. And Cameron, well, if it weren't for the leadership thing, I'd like him a lot more, but that's another topic.

I think I've enjoyed season 9 more than lots of you did, I'm ok with the way SG1 has changed...

Don't throw tomatoes, please !

Still, I remain a fan of Sam, and even if I don't agree with some of you on a few points, I just wanted to say it.

**minigeek** · 25 July 2006, 08:42 AM

Originally posted by Linwelin

Hi, everybody here...

Well, I think it's time for me to come in here with you, as I've long been a Sam fan (since the first episode aired in France, as far as I can remember...).

What decided me are the two following quotes :

I think I've enjoyed season 9 more than lots of you did, I'm ok with the way SG1 has changed...

Don't throw tomatoes, please !

Still, I remain a fan of Sam, and even if I don't agree with some of you on a few points, I just wanted to say it.

And that's the whole point of this thread, Lin. Cheers for jumpin' in! No matter what else we may all agree or disagree on, we're ALL fans of the Sam Carter character here, and we've all enjoyed her presence on SG-1 as a series. Which, put into rather strict perspective, is really what this thread is all about!

A lot of us (myself included) have been discussing some of the issues we don't particularly enjoy vis-a-vis Sam Carter throughout season nine and upcoming into ten. But there haven't been many voices (possibly due to feeling a bit intimidated!) speaking up about what some folks are really enjoying to that end. So, how about you tell us a bit about some of the things you've enjoyed regarding Sam and seasons 9/10 ... share a bit of what makes you (and others) continue to be happy with the direction of her character and the stories she's been a part of. I (for one) would love to hear some of the positive things you've thought were great (about Carter specifically) in the last two seasons. Because like a lot of other folks here, I've become a bit disillusioned of late. I admit to that. It's been tough to keep my chin up. I need to hear some specific positive opinions so that I can inject them into my mind-set, I think!!

Cheers,
mini(the cautiously but not overly optimistic)geek

**jckfan55** · 25 July 2006, 08:51 AM

Originally posted by Strix varia

Yeah, bink, that was my exact reaction, too. If they were trying to keep their female viewers, they really shouldn't have taken the direction they did in season 9.

I have to wonder, though, if they didn't increase their numbers for Morpheus based on their promos that actually featured Sam. I was looking forward to it because the spoilers for the ep actually had Sam in them. Perhaps I wasn't alone. Makes you wonder, anyway, doesn't it? The power of Sam...

LOL. Me too. I was really hopeful that Sam would be featured in the ep. since she was in the preview.

**Strix varia** · 25 July 2006, 08:54 AM

Originally posted by astrogeologist

The following is spoilered, not because it contains episode references from Season 10, but rather because it is a general discourse on the direction of Stargate (rather than a Sam-specific post)

Spoiler:

You know, I'm not sure they gave it that much thought, to be honest. At least, none of the interviews seem to address any sort of strategy that they may or may not have had.

In any case, I think part of it was that the writers were bored with the old formula. With RDA's exit, they were given an opportunity to bring in new toys, with a new energy, and that's what grabbed their imaginations and attention. Hasn't every writer commented now on how fun it is to write for Vala? Well, if that's what's fun for them as creators, that's what's going to be featured. One assumes that they they were equally enchanted with Mitchell, or they were told that they had to feature Mitchell (or believed they had to feature Mitchell, for whatever reasons). It could be that they believed that the audience would readily embrace what they, themselves, perceived as a fun new direction. Vala's fun, Mitchell's fun, (he's got all this enthusiasm!)... why wouldn't the entire audience find it fun, too?

Ah, little did they know... Too many of us just weren't as bored with the old formula as they were.

**minigeek** · 25 July 2006, 09:07 AM

Originally posted by Strix varia

Ah, little did they know... Too many of us just weren't as bored with the old formula as they were.

Well, you have to keep telling a story. No matter how that gets sliced up, that's the crux of it. And a good story has a beginning, a middle and an end (how's that for fomulaic? ;p ) The point is, if each story is an arc, and each story is to utlize the same characters, then it has to have something new to offer by way of dramatic conflict (included in that are villains, obstacles, personal character-growth, etc). Most TV series' don't last a decade because most TV series' are based on the premise of a single story, and once that arc runs its course, the writers are usually out of ideas; they tend (generally speaking) to not have much future vision beyond that arc.

Unless a story is plotted out as a trilogy or quadrilogy (etc) in ADVANCE during the arc planning stages, adding onto it with both relevance and integrity (where both the originating characters and any new components are concerned) can be a creative calisthenic that most writers are simply not gifted enough to tackle. It's hard. And I think we're seeing something of a generalized status-quo here where SG-1 is concerned in that our writing pool is in just as dire a need of a "new blood" infusion as they felt the cast and the story was. NEW ideas are necssary, to drive NEW adventures involving ANY characters ... ESPECIALLY adventures which are meant to integrate established character voices with those who are new to the dramatic arc.

The writing team had the right idea in wanting a spin-off, but the wrong idea in thinking they could handle it alone without new blood in THEIR OWN ranks. They didn't need a Col. Mitchell and a Vala Maldoran they needed a Sarah Smith (writing team addition) and potentially even a Jane Doe (second writing team addition). The producer's own arrogance is what is driving SG-1 into the ground right now. That (as Sky has pointed out already) they "know all" and have enough combined talent to tackle any creative mountain alone.

Any artist worth his or her salt will tell you that collaboration is key for stories of this monumental design and drawing from new creative sources is just as key. Especially after a decade. Let the old guard run the show and bring in new creativity. New storytellers to challenge the status-quo. God knows the "old" characters don't stop growing simply because they've told one story. But they have stopped growing, because the current writing team grew them and the current writing team "finished" with them. A new writing team infusion would NECESSARILY grow those characters further because to those new creative minds, those "old" characters are just as "new" as the ones that showed up in season nine. THAT would make for new challenges; better drama, further conflict, character arcs and story narratives that might truly have the potential to be exciting and different.

THAT, to my mind, is the problem right now with SG-1. It's not the characters. It's the people telling the story. And there's nothing they can do to fix it. They need to expand their repertoire and accept a bit of humble pie - take on some new creative blood. Whether their egos like it or not.

geek (I'm sorry, I taught two classes yesterday and I think I'm still in ~~preacher~~ teacher mode!)

**Linwelin** · 25 July 2006, 09:08 AM

Originally posted by minigeek

And that's the whole point of this thread, Lin. Cheers for jumpin' in! No matter what else we may all agree or disagree on, we're ALL fans of the Sam Carter character here, and we've all enjoyed her presence on SG-1 as a series. Which, put into rather strict perspective, is really what this thread is all about!

A lot of us (myself included) have been discussing some of the issues we don't particularly enjoy vis-a-vis Sam Carter throughout season nine and upcoming into ten. But there haven't been many voices (possibly due to feeling a bit intimidated!) speaking up about what some folks are really enjoying to that end. So, how about you tell us a bit about some of the things you've enjoyed regarding Sam and seasons 9/10 ... share a bit of what makes you (and others) continue to be happy with the direction of her character and the stories she's been a part of. I (for one) would love to hear some of the positive things you've thought were great (about Carter specifically) in the last two seasons. Because like a lot of other folks here, I've become a bit disillusioned of late. I admit to that. It's been tough to keep my chin up. I need to hear some specific positive opinions so that I can inject them into my mind-set, I think!!

Cheers,
mini(the cautiously but not overly optimistic)geek

Well, I'll have to think about it twice before writing it...

The temperature keeps my mind from going very well...

I'll be back in a few hours, when I have finished what I have to do right now, and when the sun is down, so I can't stay outside.

Linwëlin, going back outside to clean the garden...

**Rachel500** · 25 July 2006, 10:21 AM

Originally posted by astrogeologist

How about a new Sam Carter game?

Last year we did the Best Carter episode polls for each, and this time around we are doing the Best AT Acting Scene polls by season... so I was thinking it would be cool to try and encapsulate 'Sam in Each Season' in just a few words that summarize what happened to her that year.

I was originally thinking along the lines of

Season _ , The Year of __________ Carter

My go at this game

Season 1, The Year of 'Proving Herself' Carter
Sam was trying to prove herself, specifically, to O'Neill. She was proving she was worthy of a place on the team by trying to prove what a good soldier she was as well as demonstrating her technical and scientific genius. Season 1 Carter for me is best encapsulated in Hathor; competent, showing early signs of good leadership, strength in getting up when blasted by Hathor and earning herself a commendation and the approval of her CO.

Season 2, The Year of 'Jolinar' Carter
Sam's experience with Jolinar was the major impact to her character; she's left with changed body chemistry and vague fuzzy memories of a life she didn't lead and feelings she didn't feel. She continues to focus on doing the best job she can for the team while dealing with the huges changes Jolinar poses for her and the issues with her father. The Tok'ra Part 1 and 2 encapsulate Season 2 Carter for me; trying desperately to understand Jolinar and what that means for her while dealing with her father's fate and in doing so providing a way forward for the Tau'ri to make an allegiance with the Tok'ra.

Season 3, The Year of 'Major' Carter
Finally getting comfortable in her own skin again; Jolinar continues to be an influence but Sam is separating Jolinar from herself now. Her promotion gives her added confidence. Sam revels in her trusted position in the team and knowing her own worth. Season 3 Carter for me is encapsulated in Foothold; preventing the base being overtaken by aliens and coming up with the solution to disturb the technology.

Season 4, The Year of 'Being Professional' Carter
With her professional value established, her feelings for her CO create a personal conflict for her but she acts honourably choosing to sacrifice her personal desires and doesn't allow her feelings for her CO, nor for anyone else, to overcome her professionalism in getting the job done. Season 4 Carter is encapsulated in Divide and Conquer; figuring out why they weren't za-tarcs, putting her relationship with Martouf aside to shoot him, and agreeing with her CO to leave their confessions in the room.

Season 5, The Year of 'Anti-Establishment' Carter
After her early experience with Orlin, Carter is focused more on doing the 'right thing', especially as the way forward is often tainted by those responsible for spying on her. Luckily she's supported in this by her team and for them she continues to provide a key contribution in saving them and the world as she develops her leadership skills under her CO's watchful eyes. 2001 for me encapsulates Season 5 Carter; trusted by her command to get the answer to the Aschen question in the face of the government's support of a treaty and saving the world from a biological weapon.

Season 6, The Year of 'Second-in-Command' Carter
With the death of Daniel, Carter truly excels as O'Neill relies heavily on her in the changed team. She provides him with his main sounding board and becomes his right-hand woman even more so than ever before. Her leadership skills and technical know-how are vital in getting the team in and out of the various situations they encounter. Season 6 Carter is in Smoke and Mirrors; working tirelessly to clear her CO of murder, coming up with the answers and leading the take-down of the evil businessmen behind the NID.

Season 7, The Year of 'Confused' Carter
Her professional life progressing nicely (occasional leadership gig of her own, completely trusted in the team, great soldier, her technical know-how contributing to the fight against the super-soldiers), Carter becomes confused about the direction of her personal life and whether she needs to move on from the long-buried feelings for her CO or not. Season 7 Carter is encapsulated in Grace; strong, trying to find a solution to save her and the crew of the Prometheus while debating her personal choices...

Season 8, The Year of 'Flawed' Carter
Everything goes a little pear-shaped for Carter; professionally, although promoted and still showing herself to be a good soldier and contributor to working out the solutions, she questions her leadership abilities despite the support of her CO and team; she makes what she seems to consider her worst mistake yet with her Replicator double. In her personal life she agrees to marry Pete yet comes to realise that she still has feelings for her CO and has to deal with the devastation of losing her father. It is only at the end that her life seems to get back on track as she helps defeat the Replicators, breaks off her engagement and settles back into the security of her team. Threads showcases Season 8 Carter; still feeling responsible for Daniel's fate, confused about her feelings and forced to face them with her father's death, she still comes up with a solution to stop Anubis even if its too late...and finally takes solace by going fishing with her team.

Season 9, The Year of 'Unsettled' Carter

Spoiler:

**minigeek** · 25 July 2006, 10:32 AM

Wow!!! That was FANTASTIC, Rachel! I'd love to share some green with ya, but apparently I can't - locked out of the fridge. That was just so articulate. Also very compelling as a character analysis. I think you're exceptionally right about seasons 6-8. If I agreed any more with you on those, we'd be sharing the same brain!

mg

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