Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[majorsal]

im dreading the upcoming conversation between mitchell and landry, i rarely dread upcoming events in stargate, quite the opposite in fact. i can never get over sam losing her command, unless she is given it back, which will never happen. I was looking forward to season nine so much, sam in command is something i have always wanted to see explored in depth, and now it will never happen.

i was looking forward to season 9 too.

sam had two big storylines for s7/s8 (command of sg1 and her growing relay with jack), and BOTH of them were dropped. season 9 suffered from alzheimers.


i'm half looking forward to season 10 and half dreading it.






sally

[L.A. Doyle]

season 9 suffered from alzheimers.
i'm half looking forward to season 10 and half dreading it.

[majorsal]

This is also how I interpreted her comments. She actually became quite serious at one point, especially when she said she went to TPTB and told them to quit teasing around the Sam/Jack thing.

with all the different interpretations i've read from shore leave (10 pp, 10 different views), i'd like to know 'when' amanda had asked the ptb to quit the teasing? was this the past she was talking about (seasons past), or season 9/10?




sally

[majorsal]

that's how i see it too.

she certainly enjoys the aspect of the character and acknowledges that human interaction is part of the show. but she wants to be MORE than just a foil for jack. she wants to be strong and be SAM too.

then i guess she has to be doubly pissed that not only did they take her command away from her, they shipped her with any old admirer they could bring back to the show.






sally

[majorsal]

yeah, poor ben.

i've never met teh man but i sincerely doubt taht any of this leadership mess is his doing.

IMHO, it's either coming from the sexist folks at skiffy that belive 'male lead must be leader' or it's coming from the writers that are oblivious to the fact that they are promoting and perpetrating gender based bias on an internatioal level

well, i've never heard/read bb saying he felt bad for sam/amanda in this command issue, so i'm not feeling 'poor ben' in the matter. i'm sure he's enjoying coming to a very highly successful show and becoming *the* star (just like his fans are).





sally

[ForeverSg1]

Hmmm... If I absolutely have to choose, I don't think I can play this game. But I will give reasons as to why Jack, Daniel and Teal'c all share The Best spot alongside Sam.

First, Jack. As her commanding officer, she had to prove herself to him. She had to prove that she could handle herself in the field, and that she could do whatever it took to complete the mission. When Sam was first introduced, she was very rigid (I believe "didactic" is AT's favorite word ). She clearly had a chip on her shoulder, and she was just asking for a fight.

For whatever reasons, she went into that briefing room with her guns blazing. In her youth, she later had to find a happy medium between proving oneself and leaving a bit more to the imagination. I honestly think Jack, as her commanding officer and later as her friend, helped her find that happy medium. He challenged her abilities, yet he placed an unimaginable amount of trust in her. In doing so, I honestly think that Sam was in a place by mid-S8 where she truly realized her potential and her strengths. I believe that, thanks to Jack's guidance, she was ready to take on SG-1 and whatever new threat was out there.

Sam's first mission offworld in "Zero Hour" comes to mind. Even then, she was so eager to please and do the right thing. The little exchange in the hallway between the two of them (along with others in S8) was, I believe, a changing of the guard. Jack was slowly letting go of his command. He trusted Sam to lead SG-1 and other SG-teams, and Sam began to trust herself, too.

While Jack always had the military to fall back on when it came to his early relationship with Sam, she and Daniel always saw eye-to-eye with their love for science. I think that Daniel, unassuming, genuine, faithful, loyal and ready to save the world, showed Sam that it's OK to show your vulnerabilities. Sam has always had a great capacity for compassion, and I think Daniel was able to penetrate some of the military boundaries. Even if she didn't always agree with him, there was that undeniable freedom to speak her mind. And Daniel knew he could do the same with her.

They'd essentially egg each other on, make the other think faster and more efficiently. They've always been able to think outside the box together, and remain on the same wavelength most of the time. Their thirst for knowledge These two are kindred spirits (from a non-shippy perspective), and though we may never see any more significant moments between them, it's the friendship they started right from COTG that I'll always remember.

For some reason, we didn't really see Sam and Teal'c's friendship until around S5. In "Revelations," with Daniel gone and Jack grieving in his own way, Sam and Teal'c had an understanding, and were able to move on from their pain. Teal'c's a great part of the dynamic on the team, because he's the loyal, silent support.

Even when he doesn't agree with the behavior of his friends, he stands back and observes. In many ways, because of his silence, he's proven to be a great sounding board for the others. With Sam, he lets her do her own thing, and he places quite a bit of faith in Sam's abilities, as well.

Though it was slow going, I'm really glad that AT and CJ pushed for that development so long ago. We got to see Teal'c play the shoulder to cry on in "Paradise Lost" and "Heroes Part 2." We got to see them both play the offbeat banter in "Space Race" and "New Order."

In many cases with the original cast of SG-1, less is more. It's in the silences ("Heroes," "TLC," "New Order," "Threads," "Moebius," "Ethon," to name a few), that we see how much these characters care for each other. And even if lines aren't scripted, I'm hoping we get to see those silent glances between Sam, Daniel and Teal'c. It's the only thing that will keep the SG-1 of Old alive for me. At this point, I don't need them to have the A-plots (it'd be nice, but I won't hold my breath). I just need to know that they still care for each other, that their bond hasn't completely disintegrated.

Beautifully stated. I couldn't have agreed with you more.

Honestly without these brief moments, SG-1 isn't SG-1 to me any longer and I have no interest in watching it. Stargate has always been more than just Jack, or Daniel or Sam or Teal'c. As much as I love and admire Amanda, I don't think I could watch the show if it was 42mins of Sam alone on the screen nor would I do it for any of the other characters. I admit I've enjoyed watching the individual character-centered episodes over the years and in most cases it's been interesting to watch the actors stretch their acting mucles a bit, but it has always been the chemistry between the four cast members and the wonderful bond between the characters that have kept me interested in the show for nearly a decade. Without those elements, the show does not captivate my attention in the same way. Yes, it's still Stargate but it's not SG-1. I don't know if it's the writers who have lost their touch or simply become bored of writing team moments; or perhaps over the years the chemistry between the actors has changed and those wonderful moments they used to share with a glance and a smile no longer shine through my television screen, but whatever the reasons, SG-1 has lost its spark for me and I dread watching another season where compelling and touching storylines are overshadowed by actors in tight fitting clothing and CGI battles.

I'm willing to give Mitchell and Vala a second and even a third chance as long as the writers bring back the elements of SG-1 that made me fall in love with it. If I wanted to see Amanda and Chris used as wallpaper, I would just hang a poster up on my walls and be done with it. I miss seeing my team. I miss seeing them interact with one another. Stargate has been blessed with cast of immensely talented actors. The only drawback I see with this is trying find a way to utilitize them all to their fullest potential. I don't have to be shown or told that Amanda and Claudia are beautiful women or that Chris has a rock hard body so I wish they[the writers] would stop wasting my time highlighting these aspects of the actors. I wish they would go back to writing interesting and intelligent scripts and let the actors do what it is that they've been paid to do, because if all I wanted was to watch a bunch of attractive people walk across my television screen, I'd watch reruns of Baywatch or some other braindead television show. Stargate used to be different. It used to be a show where I genuinely cared about the characters because they seemed to genuinely care about each other. That aspect of the show was lost in season nine, but I'm still grasping on to the hope that the writers will eventually realize that SG-1 was special just the way it was, and the more they try to alter and change it, the less interesting it becomes.

[minigeek]

with all the different interpretations i've read from shore leave (10 pp, 10 different views), i'd like to know 'when' amanda had asked the ptb to quit the teasing? was this the past she was talking about (seasons past), or season 9/10?




sally

Sally, of course I wasn't at shoreleave, but the gist I got from several of the reports I read afterward was that this was an ongoing (as in current) issue. Something to the effect of Amanda feeling that they needed to either do something (as in get those two together) or not do something (as in resolve it to the negative).

One way or the other, there needs to be a decision, because as long as they drag out a half-baked 'what if' scenario, then each time it's brought up in canon, Sam (the character) loses a bit of her integrity because she's portrayed as being angsty and indecisive. She loses strength by being forced into a melodramatic corner and it's OOC for Sam to not know what she wants at this point.

It would seem that Amanda would rather the writers made a definitive choice (one way or the other) and made that choice clear so that Carter would no longer be portrayed as weak and irresolute each time the issue of her feelings for Jack (or his for her) emerged.

I think Amanda would stand behind either decision, frankly, she'd make it work for Sam, but it definitely seems that she (Amanda) would prefer that Sam was able to move forward and away from the perpetual and (perhaps even frustrating) mawkish limbo they keep hammering on where Sam and Jack are concerned.

I would be so bold as to imagine that shippers and non shippers alike would even agree on that point, too.

The old euphemism: " $$$$ or get off the pot. " most definitely applies!

mg

[majorsal]

Th

2. The lead actor did not have to play the team leader. If I remember the Season Eight credits correctly, the lead actor did not play the leader of SG-1, he played the base commander. Even if it was essential that Ben Browder have first spot in the credits, Mitchell need not have had leadership of SG-1.

see, that still floors me. bb is at-cj-ms's levels. they are at his. they're equals. what's with bringing an actor of that statis (one of equality) and putting him *above* the others. what about the actors that made the show get to 9 years success? in other words, what's so great about ben browder that isn't there with amanda tapping, christopher judge, and michael shanks???

TPTB's decision was doubly sexist. Not only did they demote a female character who had rightfully earned command of SG-1 in favour of a character who got command through a combination of pulling strings and dumb luck, but by not showing that it was wrong for Sam to have lost command, they showed that gender discrimination is acceptable.

Gender discrimination in the workplace is a huge problem but had they provided a positive example by keeping Sam in charge, TPTB could have played a part, however small, in a solution. Instead, they have contributed to the problem.

I hope that TPTB remember this if any of their daughters are ever discriminated against because of their gender.

see, all of this has permanently tainted the show (and mitchell character), so just let sam/amanda go off and do the spin off. let sam distance herself from this mess.





sally

[majorsal]

But the sudden collapse of overall quality and the ineptitude of Mitchell's introduction which characterise season 9 is something else entirely. It didn't happen because AT went on maternity leave any more than it didn't happen when Michael Shanks left or Don Davis got ill or they killed off Teryl Rother's character. It happened because for season 9 they blundered big time.

CRRRRAAAAAPPPP.

don't you wonder what would have happened (how it would have been written) if amanda hadn't have went on maternity leave? what would have been the ptb's excuse then for taking command away from sam and giving it to newbie mitchell? or would that have happened...

too bad joe mallozzi wasn't still around and answering questions. we could ask him this question, and then sit back and see how many ways he 'didn't' answer it.






sally

[minigeek]

too bad joe mallozzi wasn't still around and answering questions. we could ask him this question, and then sit back and see how many ways he 'didn't' answer it.

He's no fool. He was only around while there were still a few rational answers left to those sorts of questions.

mg

[majorsal]

I wish they would go back to writing interesting and intelligent scripts and let the actors do what it is that they've been paid to do, because if all I wanted was to watch a bunch of attractive people walk across my television screen, I'd watch reruns of Baywatch or some other braindead television show. Stargate used to be different.

omg, don't give them ideas! i really, REALLY hope one of the writers isn't a fan of baywatch...

It used to be a show where I genuinely cared about the characters because they seemed to genuinely care about each other. That aspect of the show was lost in season nine, but I'm still grasping on to the hope that the writers will eventually realize that SG-1 was special just the way it was, and the more they try to alter and change it, the less interesting it becomes.

seasons 1-6: prime rib, with the works.
seasons 7-8: steak and potatoes.
season 9: mcdonald's happy meal. (with the toys being the bend-her-anyway-you-like vala action figure, and the hero-at-large/super fighter! mitchell action figure)

i want prime rib.






sally

[majorsal]

Sally, of course I wasn't at shoreleave, but the gist I got from several of the reports I read afterward was that this was an ongoing (as in current) issue. Something to the effect of Amanda feeling that they needed to either do something (as in get those two together) or not do something (as in resolve it to the negative).

One way or the other, there needs to be a decision, because as long as they drag out a half-baked 'what if' scenario, then each time it's brought up in canon, Sam (the character) loses a bit of her integrity because she's portrayed as being angsty and indecisive. She loses strength by being forced into a melodramatic corner and it's OOC for Sam to not know what she wants at this point.

It would seem that Amanda would rather the writers made a definitive choice (one way or the other) and made that choice clear so that Carter would no longer be portrayed as weak and irresolute each time the issue of her feelings for Jack (or his for her) emerged.

I think Amanda would stand behind either decision, frankly, she'd make it work for Sam, but it definitely seems that she (Amanda) would prefer that Sam was able to move forward and away from the perpetual and (perhaps even frustrating) mawkish limbo they keep hammering on where Sam and Jack are concerned.

I would be so bold as to imagine that shippers and non shippers alike would even agree on that point, too.

The old euphemism: " $$$$ or get off the pot. " most definitely applies!

mg

thank you for your input, min.

speaking as a shipper, i hope the issue is resolved by growth of the s/j relationship. it's a natural progression (to me). if they drop it, i'm gone. i don't care how that sounds. i've had enough of this sh*t to last me a life time. i've got other shows i'm interested in (though i don't ship for even half as much); i'll cut my losses and move on.





sally

[minigeek]

thank you for your imput, min.

speaking as a shipper, i hope the issue is resolved by growth of the s/j relationship. it's a natural progression (to me). if they drop it, i'm gone. i don't care how that sounds. i've had enough of this sh*t to last me a life time. i've got other shows i'm interested in (though i don't ship for even half as much); i'll cut my losses and move on.

LOL, well Amanda did say if it were up to her Sam and Jack would already be married....

But I guess the point is, it's reached a bit of a breaking spot. Ten years is ten years and it's time to make that decision,and one way or another. Amanda's not the only person who feels that way. I have a strong feeling we'll know sooner than you might think.

mg

[majorsal]

LOL, well Amanda did say if it were up to her Sam and Jack would already be married....

But I guess the point is, it's reached a bit of a breaking spot. Ten years is ten years and it's time to make that decision,and one way or another. Amanda's not the only person who feels that way. I have a strong feeling we'll know sooner than you might think.

mg

thank you, min. (for a lot of things)





sally

[minigeek]

CAPTIONARY

Teal'c: Colonel Mitchell, is it not inadvisable to bathe without any clothing while we are exploring an alien world?
Daniel: Huh. I always thought when he said his callsign was "SHAFT" that might actually mean... uh ... something.
Sam: Well, there goes that theory.