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Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

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    Originally posted by Carterslave
    Alas, no, but it's a brilliant fanwank.
    Really, that's about the only way to make that scene palatable, IMO. I hate, hate, haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate that scene, probably the low point of Heroes, Pt. 2, IMO. For one thing, the script manages to make the post-mortem situation All About Sam. In fact, this is the only episode in which I actively dislike Sam ... which is saying a lot, coming from me. She doesn't say tickety-boo about Fraiser, waves Cassandra's plight away with the infamous "She's a tough kid; she survives," and then it's all, Oh Sir, I was sooooooooooooooooo worried about you! Sniff! Sniff!"
    ( ... and let's not mention the Shippy Piano of True Love, pouring romantic syrup all over everything. Good. I'm glad we didn't mention it.)
    What gravitas the scene possesses, it owes to RDA (and he absolutely shines in his limited screen time), whether it's the bitter understatement of "It didn't help Fraiser much" and the dignity of "C'mere." I don't get any shippy vibes from Jack here: RDA plays it absolutely straight.
    Dang it all! I didn't realize how much I miss the character of Jack until this very moment. Now I need a hug.

    You guys have such interesting discussions ... I wish I could keep up with the message volume, but ... work, family ... you know.
    Well, I personally liked the scene. I didn't think less of Carter for it, anymore than I did the hug with Teal'c. Having been Janet's best friend, she was looking for comfort and I took it that she was glad she hadn't lost Jack as well as Janet.

    Still, we did have the the Shippy Piano of True Love(I love this by the way-too funny) playing in the background, so I can see where you might have a problem if you aren't a shipper.
    sigpic

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      Originally posted by ÜberSG-1Fan
      Ah...a Heroes 2 debate I see. Well here are my two pence if you please...
      Wow! That was absolutely brilliant. Couldn't have said it any better myself.
      sigpic

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        Originally posted by KatG
        Still, we did have the the Shippy Piano of True Love(I love this by the way-too funny) playing in the background, so I can see where you might have a problem if you aren't a shipper.
        The Shippy Piano of True Love! bahaha!

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          Originally posted by the dancer of spaz
          The Shippy Piano of True Love! bahaha!
          Isn't that fantastic? I LOL everytime I see it.
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            Originally posted by Carterslave
            When you describe the episode it has depth; when I watch it ... not so much. This certainly wouldn't the first time a fan (you, in this case) understood the characters better than the people writing them do, at least intermittently.

            As for the controversial "tough kid" line ... sorry to disagree, but I think it's a shabby bit of writing that makes the character seem insensitive. (Playing such a tricky line on a shot of the back of AT's head doesn't help sell it, either.) It just seems like a mighty strange way to speak of the young woman you've just inherited custody of. ("*******! You ended that sentence with a preposition!")

            Somebody had the brilliant insight that Sam is reverting to the behavior expected of her as a soldier's kid of 12 who'd just lost her mom. I hope that was RCC's intent, although you'd have to be mentally nimbler than I (which may not be saying much, granted) to make that connection on the fly, especially when The Line is so offhanded in its delivery.

            Excepti that 'avoidance' here comes off as 'callousness,' I'd argue. (For 'avoidance,' I'd say look at the Sam/Hammond scene earlier in the episode.) And she proceeds to turn on the waterworks about what almost happened to "Sir."

            I can *try* to read a different interpretation into the scene, but what it's telling me overtly is that Sam's more broken up about Jack's near-death than Janet's actual one. And that bugs. Also, I think AT is most interesting when playing repressed, conflicting emotions but, as I've said here before, she's so good at turning on the heavy-duty emotional firepower that she tends to become the show's Designated Mourner, so everyone else can remain Manly & Stoic.

            I wish you could have told that to whoever stuck that smarmy music cue in there. I mean, it really tips it over the edge into bathos. (Given how TPTB were pushing The Big Ship in S7, it's difficult not to have one's perceptions colored by that, too.) Even w/o the musical goo, it looks to me like she's playing it "shippy" and he's not.

            For me, the Daniel/Bregman scene in the infirmary is a much better depiction of coming to terms with grief and loss. It's better written and — kill me for saying this, if you must — better acted, IMO.

            I didn't call you anything. Or mean too. I was jokingly lauding you (and making a both of it; I'm sorry) for somehow finding & extrapolating emotional complexity from a scene that makes me cringe every time I watch it. You and others here have clearly studied the characters in far greater depth than I; personally, I can't get past the seemingly tone-deaf writing, especially compared to emotionally charged scripts like Abyss and 2010.

            Or ever, I'd contend, with the exception of the aforementioned Daniel scene, which came rather late in the day to redress the balance. As for Janet's death, I wouldn't say I'm angry. (Well, not anymore.) It just ... sucks, in a profound way, and has had a depressing effect on the show*, IMO. Had her demise been the centerpiece of Heroes, Pt. 2, instead of being relegated to 'B-' or 'C-plot' status, we could have had a proper catharsis. Instead, Sam's closest friend disappeared down the memory hole until Ex Deus Machina. Faced with a similar dramatic situation in Meridian/Revelations, the show did some of its best work. With Heroes, I think they flubbed it terribly, leaving a lot of fans (myself included) feeling emotionally cheated.

            *—I'll cop to feeling depressed & uneasy about S10, but for totally different reasons. Although that clip of Amanda's, uh, dancing is a bit of a help. Thanks for putting that up.
            I totally agree with the bolded parts of what you said. I do believe that Amanda is very good at playing the heavy duty emotional parts and that the show tends to use her as the Designated Mourner more often than not. I also think that in season seven the writers went out of their way to write Sam not as an officer and scientist who happens to be a member of SG-1 but moreso as 'the girl' on SG-1. However, while the scene with Jack and Sam was indeed extremely emotional, it was not the only scene during the episode that I considered to be emotional. Had it been I would have been highly upset by the Sam's reaction to Janet's death. However, in the scene where Sam comes running down the hallway crying and ticked off by the camera crew it is obvious that Sam was upset by something, but there is no proof as to what had triggered this reaction in her. Some can choose to believe it Jack because the scene with Jack getting shot was the last scene we saw of Sam, but personally I believe it was because of Janet.

            The sad thing is the writers used Jack as a means to draw sympathy from the audience. They tried to write the episode in a way that those fans who didn't read spoilers would be utterly shocked by the ending. They wanted people to believe that Jack had died and to make us assume that Sam's emotional state was due to her feelings for Jack, but at the end we find out that it was Janet not Jack who died. So in my opinion, it was Janet's injury not Jack's that caused her distress throughout the episode.

            We also had the scene between Sam & Teal'c, which showed Sam being extremely emotional while trying to write Janet's eulogy. She also sought comfort from Teal'c by hugging him. Could the writer's have done a much better job at expressing Sam's feelings regarding Janet's death or her concern for Cassie? Absolutely, but Sam's never been great at expressing how she feels. Either she represses it or she breaks down which we saw her do with Teal'c and with Jack.

            In Jack's case, I think she broke down for the exact same reasons we saw her break down with Daniel in Meridian. In Meridian she told Daniel "I don't know why we wait to tell people how we really feel. I guess I hoped that you always knew." I believe Sam probably wished she still had a chance to tell Janet the same thing, but she waited too long and she had lost her chance. She had nearly lost her chance with Jack as well. He had also come very close to dying that day and I believe at that moment Sam was just very grateful that she hadn't lost two friends. I find it hard to understand why some people can't see this. Let's say two members of your family were in an accident where one died and the other survived. It's obvious you would mourn the loss of the one who had died, but wouldn't you also be grateful that the other had survived? Should you be forbidden from expressing your relief in not having lost both?

            I saw Sam going to Jack to tell him that she was glad he had survived. I saw her repressing her pain as best she could and I saw Jack doing what Jack does best by taking the topic off himself; however, when Jack mentioned Fraiser and Cassie it just opened the floodgates for Sam and suddenly no matter how hard she tried she couldn't control her emotions anymore. Honestly for me, the scene between Sam and Jack in Hereos was one of the few instances in season seven when I didn't cringe, because it wasn't another awkward situation between them. I saw them simply as two people comforting each other. How can I see it this way? Simple. When I look at the scene, I simply replace Jack with Daniel or Teal'c in my mind and ask myself if Sam's reactions would seem out of place and in my opinion they wouldn't. If it had been Daniel in the hospital room and Sam saying those same words to him, I wouldn't have thought any less of Sam.

            I understand you may not enjoy the episode and you may be disappointed in Sam for the way she behaved in the episode, but I guess I refuse to be disappointed in Sam's behavior because we really don't know how much of the episode ended up on the cutting room floor and how differently things would have been if time had not been an issue.
            Last edited by ForeverSg1; 28 June 2006, 09:31 AM.

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              "Designated Mourner". That's brilliant.

              scarimor

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                Originally posted by RepliCartertje
                Well it looks a lot like that doesn't it... but pushing the button does have a purpose... promoting AT to people who don't know her... I mean really those people should get to know her... isn't that worht it??
                still here is the link for some of the lurkers who also like AT and want to vote for her http://www.celeeb.com/amanda-tapping/ she can use your support and ours... we are aming for top 10 so... VOTE

                Yep, the poll gives us something positive keep us entertained until Friday.
                Next Friday, you'll all be waiting patiently( or impatiently for some) for pics and summaries about Amanda at the Shore Leave convention and the week after that we'll be bouncing on our seats waiting( or worrying ) about the season premiere of SG-1.

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                  Originally posted by ForeverSg1
                  Yep, the poll gives us something positive keep us entertained until Friday.
                  Next Friday, you'll all be waiting patiently( or impatiently for some) for pics and summaries about Amanda at the Shore Leave convention and the week after that we'll be bouncing on our seats waiting( or worrying ) about the season premiere of SG-1.
                  Yes. With a strong emphasis on anxious for Shore Leave reports/pics. Don't y'all leave us in suspense any longer than absolutely necessary. Please.
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                    Originally posted by KatG
                    Well, I personally liked the scene. I didn't think less of Carter for it, anymore than I did the hug with Teal'c. Having been Janet's best friend, she was looking for comfort and I took it that she was glad she hadn't lost Jack as well as Janet.

                    Still, we did have the the Shippy Piano of True Love(I love this by the way-too funny) playing in the background, so I can see where you might have a problem if you aren't a shipper.
                    Yes, I think the scene with Sam and Jack had an implied shippiness due to the added piano music in the background. I suppose not being a shipper I could get upset, but I really don't see a point. Personally, I thought the moment she shared with Teal'c was just as tender. In fact, I found it even more tender in the fact that Sam was the one who actually walked into Teal'cs arms without asking and Teal'c without a word simply wrapped his arms around her. With Jack, Sam kept her distance until Jack opened himself up to her which showed me that Sam, even when emotionally upset, won't cross over those invisible boundaries. It also gave me a look at how close Sam and Teal'c have become over the years.

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                      Originally posted by ForeverSg1
                      Yes, I think the scene with Sam and Jack had an implied shippiness due to the added piano music in the background. I suppose not being a shipper I could get upset, but I really don't see a point. Personally, I thought the moment she shared with Teal'c was just as tender. In fact, I found it even more tender in the fact that Sam was the one who actually walked into Teal'cs arms without asking and Teal'c without a word simply wrapped his arms around her. With Jack, Sam kept her distance until Jack opened himself up to her which showed me that Sam, even when emotionally upset, won't cross over those invisible boundaries. It also gave me a look at how close Sam and Teal'c have become over the years.
                      Yes. I loved the scene between Teal'c and Sam. I wish we would see more of that. I also wish that we would have gotten a scene between Daniel and Sam, maybe Sam having a flashback to her feelings when Daniel ascended. I could have worked really well.
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                        Uh right I've come in after the event here. The poll says no vote when I go to it. I pushed a button the other night or so I thought. Do I have to log in or anything or wait a number of days to vote again? What is the score?

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                          Originally posted by Coley
                          Uh right I've come in after the event here. The poll says no vote when I go to it. I pushed a button the other night or so I thought. Do I have to log in or anything or wait a number of days to vote again? What is the score?
                          No you have to click on positive vote and you can vote every 5 minutes and if you want to leave a message you click on new post

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                            Caption Time

                            My View From The Peanut Gallery

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                              Originally posted by tsaxlady
                              Caption Time

                              ooh are my 5 minutes over yet... ok have to push the button to vote

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                                Originally posted by RepliCartertje
                                No you have to click on positive vote and you can vote every 5 minutes and if you want to leave a message you click on new post

                                Doh!!! Cheers and I'm voting away!!

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