Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[astrogeologist]

Astrogeologist - first, thanks for your understanding. Next, let me say that was an excellent, thoughtful, intelligent post and while I agree with some of it and disagree with some of it you have expressed your opinions in such a fashion as to really get to the heart of a lot of what this character brings to the table and the heart of what is perhaps a major part of the problem the past season and a half.

Thanks, Bink, and there are lots of wonderful folks on this thread and we can all commisserate with your frustration and concerns and overall hopes for where they will take the character of Sam Carter next. We don't all agree on all facets or all Sam-scenes, but we are passionate... otherwise, as someone said a few posts back, this thread would have died out long ago!

"Lack of balance: In Season 8, they ended up spotlighting Sam's vulnerabilities and insecurities; e.g., New Order, Affinity, Gemini, Threads were strong episodes for showing Sam's personal vulnerabilites and insecurities.... without balancing that enough with strong scenes that reinforced her compentence, leadership and heroism (Reckoning pt 2 is the best for having competent Sam scenes)."

While I did not see her flaws in these eps, or others (the ones that I saw) as vulnerabilities or insecurities, I saw them much more as incompetence, unprofessionalism, lack of self-respect and lackof dignity (as carried over from mid-season 7) - basically a lack of most, or all, of the things Carter had come to exemplify (why did I see it this way? Simply because the positives of these characteristics are the very ones I had seen in this character for the the 6 1/2 seasons leading up to Chimera which is where, IMO, the fall began and continued to snowball). I think that TPTB were pathetic in their portrayal of Carter overall since mid-season 7 (again, I reiterate, not every episode made her look incompetent or unprofessional but, IMO, there were so many instances this season, and I did not even watch every episode, they seemed to overwhelm the ones where they did actually show the character being competent and in charge. Even in some of the ones where they actually, finally showed her in charge in a substantive way they utterly blew it at the end and left this character swinging in the wind - the character, AT (who hersef said she disagreed with the scene I am referring to), and the fans all deserved a he** of a lot better than that from, and for, this character.

I am intrigued -what episode (and what scene)? And I do agree that they have significantly shifted the focus and portrayal of Carter in the past season and a half. I really hope that Season 9 brings us back towards the competent side of her character... and I'd also like to see her smile enthusiastically... to just be getting a great big 'rip' out of things. I think that's one thing I like about picturing Sam in the cockpit... I can just see this huge $hit-eating grin across AT'face! AT likes the idea of Sam riding motorcycles... and didn't we have a quoted (or linked to) post where she said that she'd jumped out of plane (parachuted) before she'd completely read all of the things that she's 'not supposed to do' because of the insurance coverage?

Perhaps, if as you say, they had shown more of her competence and leadership in other eps it may have gone some way to balancing the, IMO, utter soap-dreck we got most of the time for this character. As I said earlier, Reckoning was one of the only eps in S8 that seemed to portray this character with the overall respect, dignity, intelligence and professionalism the character deserved. I do not want this character to be perfect but I also do not want her to be a doormat

I absolutely agree with you there... and that was my problem with how they wrote her responses to Pete's demands at the end of Chimera.

IMO, a lot of how they wrote this character and had her behave were ways that a younger, immature person, who does not have the life experience Carter had over 6 1/2, or more, years would have behaved. This type of behaviour may have gone over better in season 2 or maybe 3 but mid-season 7 and season 8 when this character is in her late 30s and is a well respected Lt. Colonel who is now in charge of SG1 - the elite team at the SGC?? It just does not work for me - it is a contradiction to what I had seen for so many years - it was digression to the nth degree.

Last night I was thinking about how they *have* given Sam more 'shortcomings' in the past couple of seasons...Now some folks like this, some are OK with this and some folks don't like this. And, they have sort of 'taken-away' her special abilities from Jolinar (first by showing them not working as she tried to heal Daniel, and then by simply not referring to them since). So, over the past couple of seasons, Sam has 'become more human' and less of the invincible series hero.

At the same time, Teal'c got his mojo back and is now one of the main leaders of all Jaffa. Daniel has died and come back - twice... and is now sort of 'part Ascended'... able to tap into his Ascended memories when the writers want to (he did it with Teal'c when he accessed the memories about Ry'ac and Bra'tac and he did it with regards to the Lost City and he did it when battling Replicarter). And Jack was established as an 'advanced human' in Fragile Balance, he 'went Ancient' again in Lost City (and went even further this time, exhibiting healing abilities) and now he 'has the Ancient gene' and can activate Ancient technology.

So... for the past couple of seasons, the three guys have all advanced in their grand scifi heroic capabilities. And this was at the same time that Sam's character was sort-of 'normalized' so that she's not one of the super-heroes in quite the same way.

Erm? What do the rest of you think?

I will say it again just so I am clear - I was, and want to be, a die-hard Carter fan

We who see problems with this character are a legitimate group of fans who want to see Carter restored to the dignified, respected, professional, competent leader we all know she is very, very capable of being, the one that does, in fact exist, under that out-of-character facade we saw all too often (in varying degrees) since mid-season 7.

I would also like to say thanks to the many posters over the last few pages for some excellent posts that are well written, respectful and well thought out. It is enjoyable to read a lively back and forth about this character and get the opinions of others to put into the mix as I contemplate the fate of the universe and Carter . . . . Please do not take my comments personally, I feel strongly about what, IMO, they have done to this character, because I once felt the way many of you still do about the character and I would like to get that back.

Bink, thanks for posting... you've given me quite a bit to think about... your fervor and passion for the character of Sam Carter are what this thread is all about.

[majorsal]

Sally, you're wonderful, and thanks for helping us keep the fires lit for when Sam returns!

A SUPER back at cha, Astro!

Sally

[astrogeologist]

i was *very* surprised (pleasantly) when joe answered some questions last night. and i mean 'really' answered. hope this continues. sally

Sal - can you point me to the post# or thread page # of the anwers that you felt were pretty good? I'm pretty good at navigating around in our thread here, but I get lost fast in Joe's thread.

Edited to add:

I found these:

Ok, the follow up:

Mr. Mallozzi:Ok, as I thought, so why do both Jacob and Sam mentioned '4 years' if it's been six? Was it a mistake, or did something happen 2 years after Tok'ra 1 & 2 that caused Sam to almost lose Jacob? I certainly don't remember anything.

Few spoilers here, so...

SPOILERS (Highlight below to read):
Sam says she wants to get the ZPM upstairs, but Jack stops her and tells her why he wants to do it. Then he mentioned that she has 'packing to do'. I don't know what he means by this:

1. Packing for the fishing trip?
2. Packing to go to Atlantis?
3. Packing to go live with him? (God-forbid)

It's just something that confused me at the end of Mobius 2.

Jacob and Sam were clearly so overcome with emotion that they didn't realize their error. Television characters occasionally make mistakes - unlike writers. LOL! This guy has a sense of humor!

As for the next question, the answer is: 1.

Now that was a specific answer.

Joe - in relation to the continued negativity regarding Carter's character I ran across a thread called "S.N.I.T. - a/k/a Save Our Sam" on the Sci-Fi Bulletin Board. You should take a look at this thread as well (or the people at Stargate productions should) as it too details the negativity surrounding the character (over and above the soap-opera nonsense created this past season and a half) and what fans perceive to be the downfall of a once strong and respected character. While you did post in response to my original post, you did not reply to the question so, in the hopes of a reply, I will restate my question about the future of this character:

What can you say to allay the concerns/worries of the growing number of fans that feel that the once strong and respected Carter character has truly been damaged by the way she has been written over the past two seasons and will Season 9 see the return of that once respected character so we actually see Carter in charge after she rejoins the team (after ATs return) and not blowing it like at the end of Affinity?Thanks for your time.

All I can say is - check out season 9.

Hmmm... not so specific...

Hi, Joe,

I'm curious, when you guys were filming the Moebius eps, did you know the show had been renewed for a 9th season?

Sally

Yup.

Very specific.

[SamFan31]

OK, Skydiver has posted the Best Ever Carter Episode Poll
- it's a runoff poll of the top episodes voted for in each season
(see bottom of post for link)

As the Royal Archivist, I have integrated the results from all 8 Best Carter Polls and then sorted the results. Because there were a different number of votes cast for each Season Poll, I sorted the results first by percentage and then by votes cast. Of note: Grace stands out no matter how the results are sorted.

The first table is sorted by the percentage of votes cast for that episode's season. The second table is sorted by the total number of votes cast for that episode's season. Sorry this image is so large, I usually can keep them smaller, but this one wasn't readable when I downsized it.
<snip>


To vote for your top Sam Episode: The Ultimate Sam Episode Poll

Astro, you are amazing! I think we need a new royal position in Samanda...the ROYAL POLLMEISTER and I nominate our own very valuable Astro!

[ForeverSg1]

Astrogeologist - first, thanks for your understanding. Next, let me say that was an excellent, thoughtful, intelligent post and while I agree with some of it and disagree with some of it you have expressed your opinions in such a fashion as to really get to the heart of a lot of what this character brings to the table and the heart of what is perhaps a major part of the problem the past season and a half. (I actually commented somewhere weeks ago that based on what I heard about PU (maybe it was the PU thread) and how Vala would be back in S9 that they focus on the ruination of Daniels' character by dragging his a$$ thru the soapy-personal life mud by hooking him up with her (it is a cynical comment so to the Daniel fans I say - no need to jump all over me it is me venting with sarcasm and cynicism). The one thing you said, Astrogeologist, that really jumped out at me was:
*snip*

Great post Bink! I totally understand much of your frustration. I have had similar frustrations, but I just choose not to allow it to bother me as deeply as it does some. I personally don't watch much television. In all honesty, it's the only show I have watched regularly for nearly three years (outside of Blue's Clues/Sesame Street with my 4yr old), so for me Stargate is my one hour escapism each week. I try to keep positive even with issues I disagree with, because I know if I allowed it upset me more I would eventually stop watching and that would leave me with nothing.

I have to keep telling myself that issues regarding RDA's work schedule has been the decline of the storylines and character/team cohesion over the past few years. This is not to knock RDA in any way, but it's had to have been a nightmare trying to keep things going, trying to keep RDA in every single episode, filming episodes sporatically over periods of weeks/months instead of days (Grace supposedly took over a month of shooting), not being able to have the team together during filming of an episode( AT was filming scenes of Grace while everyone else was doing Death Knell ), staying in character for a particular scene when you are filming episodes out of order or filming two or three different episodes a day.

I'm not saying these things are excuses for what has happened to Sam's character, but I do believe that the writers, producers, and actors have all had some really unusual circumstances to overcome since season six and they have worked very hard to provide us with a quality show. I know some have thought it best if they had just ended the show after season six, but I for one would have truly missed it.

I know there are many things I would have changed in the scripts. I also have read that AT was quite verbal about certain scenes she found to be out of character for Sam, but for some reason they chose not to heed her warnings. I don't think it has been the writer's intention to hurt Sam's character. I just think that the past two years has been a producer's nightmare and unfortunately Sam became the most prominent victim on the casualty list. However, I do not feel she has been the only character who has been negatively affected. I have felt the same concerns about Jack over the past few years as well, though perhaps to a lesser degree. It's really bothered me how they took a laid-back, witty, and competent leader and slowly turned him into someone who is moody, sarcastic (leaning towards cantankeous), and often dimwitted. I know Jack has never come across as the most intelligent member of the SGC, but his IQ seems to have taken a drastic nosedive in the past few years. It was amusing at first, but after awhile the fish out of water bit really began to wear on me and I found myself truly beginning to miss the old Jack.

One can only hope that with all the new changes in season nine, when we finally see these characters again, it will be in a much more positive light and we can get back to storylines that really made Stargate not just good, but great.

I don't want to bring down this thread by starting a lot of negative talk, but since everyone has issues with things that have affected Sam over the past two years I was thinking we could maybe bring some of this to the forefront in a non-violent manner ( no biting, pinching, or name calling ).

Name your top five issues you have with Sam's character arc over the past two years. Try to be as specific as possible. Don't just say I hate that they have made her be so insecure and awkward. Please try to give specific instances. Like for me...

Affinity
Sam accepting Pete's proposal and kissing him during a mission really bugged the hell out of me. I didn't mind that she was kissing Pete nor did I mind that she was accepting his proposal (ok maybe it bothered me a little bit). But what bothered me the most was that she had been putting Pete off for over two weeks. Why couldn't she have waiting another hour until they got home or into the car? OMG! I was so totally excited to finally see Sam in charge and it all ended with a bitter taste in my mouth.

Maybe if we could see what types of things bother each other it would help us to understand each other's frustrations better.

Kat

[majorsal]

Sal - can you point me to the post# or thread page # of the anwers that you felt were pretty good? I'm pretty good at navigating around in our thread here, but I get lost fast in Joe's thread.

Joe was on last night, and he answered a few questions. His newest answers started on page 43, post 850. My fave answers were posts #s 852, 857, 866, 869, and 873. If you want to read all his newest answers, you should just start on number 850 (pg 43) and read on.

Sally

[Agent_Dark]

Wow, some great discussion going on about our Sam here - Kudos to all involved

Just looking at the 'Ultimate Sam Episode' poll makes my brain melt - How am I meant to choose a single best episode?!?!?!

[SamFan31]

Wow, some great discussion going on about our Sam here - Kudos to all involved

Just looking at the 'Ultimate Sam Episode' poll makes my brain melt - How am I meant to choose a single best episode?!?!?!

Any chance to change it to the top three best episodes. Kinda like we did with each season. Choosing just one is going to be *really* difficult.

[astrogeologist]

Wow, some great discussion going on about our Sam here - Kudos to all involved

Just looking at the 'Ultimate Sam Episode' poll makes my brain melt - How am I meant to choose a single best episode?!?!?!

LOL at 'makes my brain melt'... and I agree with how to choose the 'single' best episode... I wanted to choose my top five... top three would be hard enough.. but the top one... whoo, that's tough... there are just too many great Sam episodes.

[astrogeologist]

Joe was on last night, and he answered a few questions. His newest answers started on page 43, post 850. My fave answers were posts #s 852, 857, 866, 869, and 873. If you want to read all his newest answers, you should just start on number 850 (pg 43) and read on.

Sally

Thanks Sal! And you are right, he was specific about a couple of things... like fishing

[majorsal]

spoilers for s7's chimera and s8's affinity

1
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1
1
1
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<snip>

I don't want to bring down this thread by starting a lot of negative talk, but since everyone has issues with things that have affected Sam over the past two years I was thinking we could maybe bring some of this to the forefront in a non-violent manner ( no biting, pinching, or name calling ).

Name your top five issues you have with Sam's character arc over the past two years. Try to be as specific as possible. Don't just say I hate that they have made her be so insecure and awkward. Please try to give specific instances. Like for me...

My sore spot is Chimera. While the S/J shipper in me had a stroke (was *so* jealous ), the Sam fan cringed with the events that happened in the last half of the ep. And to this day, I still can't figure out why they had Pete the way they did (what did it add up to, except for him to know about the program? and what did 'that' add up to?). But putting aside Pete's behavior, it was Sam's that disappointed me so. While I've never seen Sam in a relationship like that before, I thought I knew her well enough to think she'd not take too kindly to being treated with disrespect. Affinity bothered me too, but I guess because it bothered Amanda as well, it took some of the sting off it. But Chimera... The ONLY reason I could see Sam accepting that behavior is if she were totally and hopelessly (and blindingly) in love. And she wasn't. So wtf....

Sally


ps - I'm going to try to be more upbeat, so I'm going to go find a good Sam or Amanda pick to share with you guys.

[Uber]

I'd like to apologize to all Samandans, as I fear I ruffled some feathers with my spirited defense of Sam yesterday.

No offense was intended on any level and I still love and appreciate everyone here and all debates and opinions expressed, whether I agree with them or not.

I hope I am still welcome to post and participate...I'll do my best to reign in my knee-jerk reactions.

So just if I ticked you off inadvertently - whoever and anybody in that category to whom that may apply...I truly am sorry if I offended.

((((((((((CITIZENRY OF SAMANDA))))))))))

[astrogeologist]

Sky - I really like your new Sam Avatar!
Is it your own Custom Avatar or is it in a GW list that you get to choose from because you have such a high rep point total?

[ChopinGal]

Thanks, Bink, and there are lots of wonderful folks on this thread and we can all commisserate with your frustration and concerns and overall hopes for where they will take the character of Sam Carter next. We don't all agree on all facets or all Sam-scenes, but we are passionate... otherwise, as someone said a few posts back, this thread would have died out long ago!

... for the past couple of seasons, the three guys have all advanced in their grand scifi heroic capabilities. And this was at the same time that Sam's character was sort-of 'normalized' so that she's not one of the super-heroes in quite the same way.

Erm? What do the rest of you think?

Bink, thanks for posting... you've given me quite a bit to think about... your fervor and passion for the character of Sam Carter are what this thread is all about.

I've been occupied elsewhere in an AU and am just now reading the past several pages regarding the whole Sam arc for S7 and S8. All of the recent long and thoughtful posts, especially AstroG, Kat, and Bink, have made excellent and respectful points of their own perceptions and opinions on just what seemed to be happening to Sam.

Bink, you know that you and I really turned this around a lot way, way back on the "why Pete is so hated" thread and I was feeling just as angry and thought that TBTB had really done a disservice to the character. At the time, seeing how she let herself be manipulated by Pete was painful to watch.

But time kinda heals all wounds ... and I think, once TPTB started to realize that we fans and "our issues" were naming valid concerns, they began to rethink where they were taking Carter by the end of S8. At least, that's my current opinion on the subject.

I think it may have been a learning curve for everyone - fans and writers and even AT herself. She certainly wanted them to reveal more about what makes Sam tick ... but, tellingly, in one of her last interviews (S8 end-of-season?), Amanda says that Carter has had some major losses and had to make some "solid" decisions (including the breaking up with Pete) ... I would have never thought she'd agree with that plot development from her earlier enthusiasm over the new boyfriend. Most importantly, she states that she wants to see more of "Lt. Colonel Samantha Carter" taking command, planning missions, etc. It looks like the pendulum is swinging back to the better balancing that Astro has described. So, I'm hopeful for S9 and for a more mature Carter to return - knowing much more about herself and her vulnerabilities from her ups and downs of S7 and S8.

Again, as has been said ... she's no longer the wide-eyed and somewhat naive young scientist-soldier of the earliest seasons ... she has taken some hard knocks ... she's also opened herself more to life in general with all its heartaches and disappointments ... but she's still the same scientist and soldier underneath it all. I agree that the other characters have overshadowed her regarding capabilities and responsibilities, and that's what needs to be corrected. Again, there was the lack of balance regarding the four characters.

The dance was so much fun to watch in the early seasons ... they were all in synch ... but the "tipping point" may have been RDA's reduced shooting schedule and their all being asked to do a heroic job of filling in the gaps and being overworked in the latter seasons. That's the one thing about S9 which still worries me: loss of Jack's presence and the new dance that must begin. Yes, it's time for Sam to take the lead!

Let me refine that: instead of a dance, let's think of the SG1 team as a jazz band ... a great combo knows how to rotate the lead between the players ... one moment the piano takes the melody and then the sax plays a riff and then the drummer steps in ... but they still come back together and blend perfectly. So what I wish for S9 is our SG1 team (new and old alike) to be an ensemble cast but knowing when to step in and out and do some great solo moments too. For Sam, it has to be soldier/scientist moments - showing her now at the top of her game. She's earned it and the loyal fans deserve it!

I am totally hooked like most of you ... as long as Sam is in the show, I will keep watching. Bring it on! AT is still one of the best actors on TV and I can't think of "throwing the baby out with the bath water". Pardon the pun!
What is it, really, about this actor and this character that has gotten us all so emotionally involved? Yes, we are a passionate bunch!

Good work, folks ... you have all really contributed some intelligent and substantive opinions on a very touchy subject.

I'm buying ... blue jello for everyone!!

[majorsal]

I'd like to apologize to all Samandans, as I fear I ruffled some feathers with my spirited defense of Sam yesterday.

No offense was intended on any level and I still love and appreciate everyone here and all debates and opinions expressed, whether I agree with them or not.

I hope I am still welcome to post and participate...I'll do my best to reign in my knee-jerk reactions.

So just if I ticked you off inadvertently - whoever and anybody in that category to whom that may apply...I truly am sorry if I offended.

((((((((((CITIZENRY OF SAMANDA))))))))))

Oh, honey...

(((((((((Ubersg))))))))))

I can say with pride and certainty that we're a nice and open-minded group of ppl here. Just the fact that you were afraid you'd offended someone and had the integrity to apologize... you're more like Sam and Amanda than you think.


Sally