Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[Uber]

You know, it's one of the cool things about this thread...we come from different backgrounds, different professions, different interests and skills and lives...

We're not American, or Canadian, or British, or Aussie, or French here although we do of course love, appreciate and honor our real world nationalities...

We're Samandans here, united in purpose and pleasure and joy and irritation and friendship over the coolness that is Sam Carter and the brilliance and beauty and charm that is Amanda Tapping.

We bicker about things that happen on the show from time to time...trends we don't like or characters we have issue with...or ships we prefer or don't prefer...some would rather go Titanic and sink all ships altogether...

But in the end it all comes back to one thing and one thing only...our mutual appreciation for Samantha Carter and Amanda Tapping and our enjoyment of a show that means something special to us for one reason or another.

Long live Samanda.

[ReganX]

Lantash's best scene is in Serpent's Song when he angrily blows up at SG-1, haughtily declaring, "Why don't you comprehend the danger you are in? We cannot defend you from the Goa'uld. You cannot expect us, too." All of SG-1 take umbrage to that, and there was a great deal of potential to explore there. For me, Martouf's character could have been salvaged from the ever-growing pile of "Worthless Love Interests For SG-1" had the writers chosen to create a unique dichotomy where Lantash, like most of the Tok'ra, found the Tau'ri to be dangerous, unpredictable, and worst of all, uncontrollable or incapable of being manipulated. Meanwhile, you could still have allowed Martouf to fawn over Sam, all the while having her not know whether Martouf/Lantash could really be trusted. Couple that with Sam's own mixed up feelings regarding Jolinar, and you've got some extensive fodder to help explore the Tok'ra in particluar and the host/symbiote relationship in general.

That was a great scene, and it is a pity that Lantash's character and his relationships with Jolinar and with Sam were not utilized more.

[Uber]

DUDE.

I was post 40,000.

*dies*

[stargate barbie]

I have to disagree with you here, because after watching S9 I have come to the conclusion that Stargate was not about the relationships of four members of SG-1. It was about the relationships of one man, Jack, with three other members of SG-1. This is why the writers have so much trouble giving us team moments now, because for eight years they have been showing us how Sam, Teal'c and Daniel's relationship with Jack have evolved and changed, but they have done very little to show the relationships with the other three characters. Yes in the beginning we saw Sam/Daniel become close and we've had moments with Teal'c/Daniel and Teal'c/Sam, but none of these relationships have been developed and strengthened as much as the ones between S/J, J/D and J/T. Jack was the center of SG-1 and Jack is what held the characters together. As much as I had hoped that was not true at the end of season eight and as much as I had hoped to finally see these three characters really bond with one another, it simply did not happen nor do I feel it will ever happen.

The difference between seasons 1-8 and now is that Ben Browder has taken RDA's place and they are writing Mitchell to try to take Jack's place which includes being the center of all the relationships. We will see Sam/Mitchell as friends, we'll get our Mitchell/Daniel moments and our Mitchell/Teal'c moments, but I don't believe we will ever really get our Sam/Daniel/Teal'c moments. Why? Because it was never about the team. It was always about Jack and Mitchell is the new Jack.

I'm sorry if I've been much more negative today than norm. It may be best if I hold off posting for a few more days till RL issues calm down and I can look at things a bit more positively and open.

well i do see your point, and i agree that early on (season 1) that it was about jack. that he was the centre of the show, and the everyone else was developed through their relationships with him.

but i felt that as time went on it became an ensemble. each character had their individual development arcs independant of their relationship with jack. daniel obviously had sha're. teal'c had his wife and family. sam had cassie and in a way she had jonas hansen who, although he wasn't a lasting character, did serve to develop sam's character and enable us to learn more about her. these are just examples. there was more, i'm sure. these are plot points and character development points that didn't include or require jack. and jack himself had independent points of development.

season 2 expanded on this by giving sam jolinar. her own personal cause to fight the goa'uld if you will. we got sam's dad. we got the tok'ra to whom sam had more ties than anyone.

teal'c got out to see the world on his own. more family development.

from there it further expanded and i do feel that there was a deliberate effort to make the show an ensemble one rather than about jack. i think that it didn't take long for the show to become this, and it wasn't long (for me at least) before each character was just as important as the other.

(OT: holy moses! harry gro.. greo.. um... the mayor from buffy is on ST:TNG!!! )

anyway, i do see what you're saying, and i do think that in season 9 they tried to make it a new season 1 of sorts, but they forgot that they already had an amazing ensemble right there. they tried to make ben the "lead", when really they didn't need one. all they needed was a new character of equal importance to sam, teal'c, daniel, jonas and jack.

now this is just how i see it. i know that there are others that see it the same way. i know that there are people who see it like you, that jack was the lead and centre of the show all the way, and i know that there are people who see others as the lead/centre of the show.

i guess its all up to our own perceptions?


also, maybe i should leave, i seem to be depressing the heck out of some people here! ( ? )

[ReganX]

DUDE.

I was post 40,000.

*dies*

And a lovely, incredibly fitting post 40,000 too.

[stargate barbie]

DUDE.

I was post 40,000.

*dies*

awesome. awesome to the max! congrats, i can't green you though. dude, indeed.

[stargate barbie]

You know, it's one of the cool things about this thread...we come from different backgrounds, different professions, different interests and skills and lives...

We're not American, or Canadian, or British, or Aussie, or French here although we do of course love, appreciate and honor our real world nationalities...

We're Samandans here, united in purpose and pleasure and joy and irritation and friendship over the coolness that is Sam Carter and the brilliance and beauty and charm that is Amanda Tapping.

We bicker about things that happen on the show from time to time...trends we don't like or characters we have issue with...or ships we prefer or don't prefer...some would rather go Titanic and sink all ships altogether...

But in the end it all comes back to one thing and one thing only...our mutual appreciation for Samantha Carter and Amanda Tapping and our enjoyment of a show that means something special to us for one reason or another.

Long live Samanda.

i went back to read it and all i can really say is, well freakin' done!

i'm quite proud that this is post 40000. very appropriate. we still printing it out as proof and giving this to AT at gabit2? 'cause its a good'un.

[Uber]

i went back to read it and all i can really say is, well freakin' done!

i'm quite proud that this is post 40000. very appropriate. we still printing it out as proof and giving this to AT at gabit2? 'cause its a good'un.

Oooh really?

Cool.

[ReganX]

they tried to make ben the "lead", when really they didn't need one. all they needed was a new character of equal importance to sam, teal'c, daniel, jonas and jack.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. To me, the show has long outgrown the need for a "lead" character; the characters they had were strong enough to stand on equal footing and while they would have benefitted from the addition of another well-established, well-written character of equal standing with Sam, Daniel and Teal'c, trying to remake the show around a new lead has done far more harm than good.

[Mandysg1]

You know, it's one of the cool things about this thread...we come from different backgrounds, different professions, different interests and skills and lives...

We're not American, or Canadian, or British, or Aussie, or French here although we do of course love, appreciate and honor our real world nationalities...

We're Samandans here, united in purpose and pleasure and joy and irritation and friendship over the coolness that is Sam Carter and the brilliance and beauty and charm that is Amanda Tapping.

We bicker about things that happen on the show from time to time...trends we don't like or characters we have issue with...or ships we prefer or don't prefer...some would rather go Titanic and sink all ships altogether...

But in the end it all comes back to one thing and one thing only...our mutual appreciation for Samantha Carter and Amanda Tapping and our enjoyment of a show that means something special to us for one reason or another.

Long live Samanda.

Wow Oooober well said for Samanda's 40,000th post! Congrats

[majorsal]

That would be fine with me. I'm sorry that I sullied this thread so badly.

you didn't sully the thread. it's just getting a little too ship heavy i think.

here's the ship discussion thread: http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...cussion+thread

i'll go over there and wait to see if you post anything. i'll debate with you.






sally

[majorsal]

So Last Stand was on tonight again.



Can everyone say WOW?

Amanda did such a stellar job with this performance...truly one of my favorites from her in the series.

We see her grappling with the fact that Elliott was snaked...thus having to relive particularly unpleasant memories and trying to sound positive about the whole thing.

I love how Sam takes care of Elliott and gives him a pep talk at first...but then tells him like it is. She never gives up but there's a moment where there's a flash of "man, this seems hopeless" on her face as she tires from moving the boulders and the room drains itself of the much needed oxygen, which is very rare indeed.

Then there's that moment when Elliott tells her that Lantash loved her as much as he loved Jolinar. It reminds me of what Martouf told her...I think it was in Tok'ra 1...that they love as one. I love that entire scene...how Sam responded to that moment and to the fact that Lantash truly loved her for who she was and not because she once hosted Jolinar. Maybe it was the director who suggested it, but having her face shadowed as she bowed her head during his confession of Lantash's feelings was just the right choice for that moment.

I also love how Lantash wanted Sam to know that he didn't blame her for Martouf's death and didn't want her to either...but he knew her. He knew she felt responsible on some level, regardless of her logical mind telling her there was no other way...and I respect Lantash for freeing her like that.

I love the look in her eyes when Lantash sacrifices himself for her and the team...her sadness at knowing that this time, there is no escape for him. This time, they would indeed leave one of their own behind and there was nothing she could do about it. Amanda maintained the disciplined approach Sam would have at that moment without being cold. She played it with just the right amount of emotion and empathy and loss without dissolving into a puddle.

Just a great, GREAT episode and I'd love to see more of these kinds of moments for Sam in the future.

i love this ep too. and that scene -the one i bolded- was *awesome*! i've said it a million times (give or take a thousand), but that's the sign of a great actor when they can take such a simple scene and give it layers and depth beyond what was written.

i was also so-so with the actor that played elliot, until his last scenes when sam/everyone was saying goodbye to him and he knew he was going to die... i became an instant fan of this actor because of how he handled that scene.

s9's ripple effect spoilers -

Spoiler:

i felt 10 times more impact with the sam/elliot/lantesh scenes than what i felt for sam's reunion with martouf in 'ripple effect'.

sally

[ReganX]

i went back to read it and all i can really say is, well freakin' done!

i'm quite proud that this is post 40000. very appropriate. we still printing it out as proof and giving this to AT at gabit2? 'cause its a good'un.

I think it's a good idea. Physical proof of the 40,000th Samandan post.

[majorsal]

Addressing the "excuses" angle that TPRTS always fall back on and use as copouts I have the following observation, and I have said this before but I recently read an article about Desperate Housewives and the fact that most people involved with that show, from cast to crew to Marc Cherry the EP and creator of the show (usually the No. 1 or 2 network show each week with 15+ MILLION viewers and oooodles of advertiising dollars) ADMIT that MISTAKES have been made in S2. This is my biggest problem with TPRTS on Stargate - they REFUSE to admit THEY made mistakes and they refuse to acknowledge any problems with chracters, writing, direction, arcs, etc. The cast and crew of one of the biggest networks shows on TV right now are mature enough and confident enough in their abilities to admit these things why can't cooper and his merry men? (It is the same thing I have said about people like JJ Abrams from Alias fame - in the past he too admitted mistakes with Alias' direction, characters, arc, etc., and his show was no slouch in the NETWORK ratings game either). If these guys get it I am not sure what the problem is with cooper and his cronies.

Back to DH - some of what was said in the article by cast and crew resonated because they are exact same issues many, many fans have had with Stargate SG1 (and SGA) the past few seasons:

"Season 2 was a letdown from the breakout success . . . " Same can and has been said about S9 from S8s success in the ratings.

"The cast got a little thick." uuuhhh S9 and S10 as examples. I harken back to cooper and others saying in the past that it is a 4 man team and writing for 5 or more would take away from the dynamic that is why Jonas had to go -- but even having a 4 man team in S9 seemed to be a bust and TPRTS couldn't handle it but when you add Lam and Landry you have a bigger mess and I fear for what will hapen with S10.

Re: the addition of the Applewhites (Alfre Woodards storyline): "Viewers were pretty vocal about what they liked and what they didn't - like brining in a new family with NO CONNECTION TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD." Change neighborhood to "SG1" and you have the biggest and loudest complaint about S9 -- mitchell, the contrived, hewo, leader, coming out of the blue with no real connection and no experience and all we get is a contrived backstory that doesn't fly (get it? he's a pilot - sorry lame I know) and we are told instead of shown and what we are shown is a very sorry excuse for an SGC officer never mind co-leader of the elite team.

Spoiler:

Seems that Cherry and others knew a bad thing when they saw it and, despite the story being one that was meant to be "pivotal to S2" the Applewhites, with an actress the caliber of Alfre Woodard, have been written out after only one season.

I can only hope TPRTS come to their senses the way people involved in seriously huge network TV shows do.

Terry Hatcher on Susan's arc in S2: "She hasn't had one". Change the names Susan to AT and Sam, MS and Daniel, or CJ and Teal'c and you have another one of the biggest, loudest complaints - the BIG 3 being relegated to the foils and the background and the wallpaper. Fans do not watch DH for the Applewhites and likewise many, many fans do not watch SG1 for mitchell or vala -- they have and do watch for Sam, Daniel and Teal'c - the team and the formula that worked for 8 years.

Hathcher again: "They've sort of thrown some things up against the wall and tried to see if they'd stick, and they haven't." HHmmmm sounds familar to what we have seen come out of bridge in S9. I recall reading this type of sentiment many times across forums with regard to the [email protected].

Anyway, as I have said in the past I have a lot more respect for people in this business who are willing to admit mistakes and then acknowledge them and fix them. The respect level I have for the [email protected] has been falling for the past several seasons and it took a potentially deadly hit with S9.

A lot of what was in the article about DH and a lot of what the cast, crew said resonated and could have been written about Stargate - if TPRTS had the same confidence and abilities that the DH people do to admit mistakes have been made, that THEY have made the mistakes and acknowledge that they will fix them instead of always denying the show has taken a turn for the worse, instead of coming up with lame, cop-out excuses and instead of looking to drop responsibility at the feet of anything they can find except themselves - the people who make the show. Let's see Alfre Woodard versus Ben Browder -- no offense intended but I would do everything in my power to make a story with the likes of Alfre Woodard work before Ben Browder and the people at mega-hit DH were willing to let AW go so I would not even blink an eye if BB were to disappear from Stargate.

wow this got kind of long - sorry.

i think they're writing stargatefastfood right now. the writing's been slipping for years because how can anyone write great if you're splitting your time between two *shows*?

sam, jack, daniel, and teal'c used to be written with depth and care. now all the characters are being written as caricatures (to sorts).

maybe season 10 will see that all worked out. maybe not. i'm just glad sam/amanda's still on!



here's a question for everyone: if the writing for sam gets *so* bad that's it's painful to watch, will you continue watching?

i can't answer this yet.






sally

[Agent_Dark]

Sorry I sound incredibly dim but what is OT3? I wrote a dork-verse missing scene sort of fic that's not quite a fix-it, but I wrote it because

Spoiler:

I really liked the Geek!Daniel and Geek!Sam interaction and wanted more of it.

Where OTP = One True Pairing, OT3 = One True 3(some) You can of course put your own number in there if you so desire (OT4 is the true definition of team fic )