Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[JessM]

i've never really thought that the relationship between sam and daniel was ever ruined. i never thought anyones relationships on the show were ruined. look at meridian (if you can, i can't), and look at menace. i thought they got along quite well. i'm gonna have to watch all of this again to try to understand where people are coming from on all of this. the more i think about it, the less i agree. other than his complete disregard for her in full circle, i can't think of an example for their lack of friendship.

I'm not sure if it was ruined per se, but it has seemed to be quite strained in season 9. Have you seen any moments this past year where they seemed concerned at all for each other or showed support?

And yes I thought what we saw in Arthur's Mantle was pretty nice, but that's really all, and even then I don't think their friendship was quite up to par as it had previously been, even during season 8. But that's just how I see it.

[JessM]

I'm glad you posted this, Jess, I agree. It wasn't just S/J I was talking. Or even Sam/Pete. Ship plays havoc with team dynamic. Look at Jack and Daniel over the Ke'ra thing. Or Teal'c/Shaun'ac... He was going to leave the team. It doesn't have to be any ship in particular. Daniel/Sha're did it a few times, too. And Sam had her feelings for Martouf, which could have caused her to leave SG-1. Or Jack/Laira. It's all ship, not some. And I'm well aware that Sam/Daniel would split the team, though I try to reduce that as much as possible in my fic.

No problem. And I'm glad that you clarified this the way you did because I found myself stuck on how to say it... but you covered everything, I think.

[Uber]

well since you asked, here's my opinions on the whole sam/thor vs sam/kvasir vs sam/ba'al situation...

ok, no i wouldn't do that to you.

Hey if you see the lurve...then spread it around my friend!

[stargate barbie]

Hey if you see the lurve...then spread it around my friend!

you wouldn't be saying that if you saw the "ship battle" that the "sams secret relationship" thread turned out to be.

[majorsal]

I emphasize that everyone is entitled to their opinion, and this is just the way I feel personally. I do agree with you fishyone that ship can endanger the team dynamic, which is why I'd also like to see Season 10 as ship-free as possible. IMO, that way, everyone wins because we can all come to our own conclusions about our respective ships... and we can always further things in fanfic.

this has always been one of my fave sayings. equality and all that.

jess and fishyone, may i suggest taking this ship talk to the ship discussion thread? i'll follow you there and debate all you want.






sally

[JessM]

*snork*

The many snogs of Sam ... ah yes.

(Actually, that one there was an Amanda/Michael snog, so I'm not sure it counts as a Sam/Daniel snog, hmm... judges?)

Well, OKAY, but just 'cause there really aren't any canon Sam/Daniel snogs to play with. We'll count it in.

(This is the part where someone posts their Sam/Thor snog...)

Thanks, I really appreciate that. You should feel bad for us poor S/D shippers... we have no canon to play with, so we continue to wallow in our delirious "mights" and "maybes" and take anything we can get...even if it doesn't appear to be "canon"... yes, we are rightfully stigmatized as being fans of the ship that should not even exist, because it has no basis since the two characters enjoy a brother-sister relationship, if any relationship at all. There is definitely no sparkage between them and we should stop blindly following something that does not exist. After all, it is quite squicky and we all have our heads in the sand to not enjoy the HAWTNESS of that obvious OTP... -

Yes, I was channeling Rodney McKay there... extreme sarcasm and all. I apologize... and before any Sam/Teal'c, Sam/Janet, Sam/Thor, etc. people jump on me and tell me to stop feeling sorry for myself and my other like-minded shippers, because they're not popular either... I know that... I just tend to take these things kind of personally and being flamed for my ship has left a bad impression on me. Your comment was perfectly innocent, minigeek, so please don't think I'm lashing out at you.

I guess this sounds very paranoid, but would people feel better if I turned off my sig? Because it seems that after I make a bunch of posts, someone posts the S/J Grace kiss, and it makes me think that it's to counter my S/D sig banners. I'm sorry if this sounds very selfish of me and I'm not normally this paranoid...it's just something I've noticed since coming here.

I'm thinking that maybe I should visit less often, because I feel like it's all of you against me (or against a couple of us) and I just can't keep up. It makes me think that I'm wrong for having my ship, and I know that you've tried to convince me otherwise when I'd first come here... but it's hard not to take it personally when it seems like there's a lot of people ganging up on you. I do appreciate Sam's character and that's why I'm here, but I don't want anyone trying to convert me or anything. I just want to talk about Sam and not have to fend off people picking on me for only trying to represent my ship fairly.

I guess this all sounds like I'm a fragile person who can't take joking, but again I feel outnumbered and wish it could just be about Sam, not splitting hairs about who people ship her with... and yes I feel that that is what is happening when people keep posting the S/J kiss... I don't say anything about it, and I just post S/D to keep it fair.

I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm trying to censor anyone... I'm just stating my concerns and why I'm not too happy and don't feel like I'm entirely welcome here. Please flame me or give me negative reputation, I deserve it for whining like this. Sorry I wasted everyone's time... I've just been pretty depressed lately.

[JessM]

No bans or nasty names on Samanda for having a ship preference...that would be a very unSamandarian thing to do. (AstroG...new word for the Royal Dictionary).

Now like I said before, when you mention ship here, you open yourself up to be teased by those who don't agree or have a different preference or hate the notion of ship in the altogether. (reference my friend jckfan and the nervous tick... LOL)

The only time someone would get into trouble is if they picked fights, demanding that everyone must agree to their ship preferences or lack thereof...but we try to steer clear of that kind of mayhem here (with varying degrees of success of course).

But see, right now, I've heard from a couple Sam/Jack fans and a Sam/Daniel fans and I KNOW that there are other ship preferences out there.

So COME ON FOLKS!!! Play with me.

I wish I'd seen this post before I posted my sarcasm + sob story. I do appreciate that, and I guess it's my own fault for not turning off my sig banner. I probably wouldn't have mentioned ship at all if I'd just done that. So it's all my fault. *hangs head in shame*

[JessM]

this has always been one of my fave sayings. equality and all that.

jess and fishyone, may i suggest taking this ship talk to the ship discussion thread? i'll follow you there and debate all you want.

sally

That would be fine with me. I'm sorry that I sullied this thread so badly.

[stargate barbie]

I'm not sure if it was ruined per se, but it has seemed to be quite strained in season 9. Have you seen any moments this past year where they seemed concerned at all for each other or showed support?

And yes I thought what we saw in Arthur's Mantle was pretty nice, but that's really all, and even then I don't think their friendship was quite up to par as it had previously been, even during season 8. But that's just how I see it.

i don't think i'd use the word strained, but i'm not really sure i can offer a definitive opinion on the team relationships of season 9. i'm not even sure there were any.

to be honest i've only given 3 episodes, maybe 4, of season 9 a repeat viewing. the inconsistent writing has bothered me, so i'm not going to watch it again for a little while. i've been thinking maybe now is the time to give it another go. i've been disappointed with the writing of mitchell, and with the writing of vala whom i believed was a character with great potential as an occasional reccuring role akin to maybournes.

personally i find that in season 9 mitchells relationship with mitchell was the focus of the season. anything else came from the actors really, because again, i found a lot of inconsistancies with the whole season. it was as though each writer and director was working alone and without the input of any other members of the production team, and the episodes just didn't seem to gel from one week to the next. it was like each writer and director had their own take on the "new" show.

we got a nice few bits of the old team in beachead, where sam mentioned having contact with daniel while she was gone. in EDM where he comes to her in her lab. they worked cohesively on the ship in beach head, but they ignored vala just to serve a plot point which always bothered me. again we had a nice indication that although jack was not on the show that he was there in spirit through a few indications, again, beach head and a hint if you want to take it that way in EDM. arthurs mantle, ethon (nice teal'c bit too).

i do hope that in season 10 they can improve it all now that mitchell isn't exactly the new guy anymore.

i think they can definitely write them as a team, but i'm not sure they will.


in season 8, sam, daniel and teal'c were great i thought. i don't really feel the need to point out individual moments here between just two characters because i thought that as three they were great. even as four a lot even though jack wasn't their, there was still that feeling of closeness for me. its all in the chemistry really for me.

i don't think there is anything wrong with their friendship just because we don't get a ton of scenes showing it. i don't need to be dumped in a swimming pool to know its wet. poor analogy, but its all i can think of.

i'd love to see more sam/teal'c scenes, because i think those are the only ones really lacking on the show, and while i do think that they've made a conscious effort to remedy this in more recent years, its really the actors chemistry that makes me realise how close they are and how much they care for each other. and while we're on the topic, i can't help wonder about something. it's usually ship that gets blamed for peoples perceived destruction of other friendships on the show. the lack of scenes with other characters being caused by the increase in shippy scenes. in my experience, there haven't really been that many more scenes attributed to ship than to other relationships. its just that the nature of the relationship and feelings are different, so they are possibly more noted. people tend to notice these things. i can't help but wonder why the increase in scenes between sam and teal'c in recent years hasn't been blamed. they are the only ones whose scenes/moments together have increased as far as i can recall.

now i'm not complaining about it because if anything i could do with seeing more sam/teal'c friendship moments. enough that would equal sam/daniel friendship and sam/jack friendship/'ship, and now enough to equal sam/mitchell and sam/vala friendships scenes. i just find it kind of interesting.

[Uber]

So Last Stand was on tonight again.



Can everyone say WOW?

Amanda did such a stellar job with this performance...truly one of my favorites from her in the series.

We see her grappling with the fact that Elliott was snaked...thus having to relive particularly unpleasant memories and trying to sound positive about the whole thing.

I love how Sam takes care of Elliott and gives him a pep talk at first...but then tells him like it is. She never gives up but there's a moment where there's a flash of "man, this seems hopeless" on her face as she tires from moving the boulders and the room drains itself of the much needed oxygen, which is very rare indeed.

Then there's that moment when Elliott tells her that Lantash loved her as much as he loved Jolinar. It reminds me of what Martouf told her...I think it was in Tok'ra 1...that they love as one. I love that entire scene...how Sam responded to that moment and to the fact that Lantash truly loved her for who she was and not because she once hosted Jolinar. Maybe it was the director who suggested it, but having her face shadowed as she bowed her head during his confession of Lantash's feelings was just the right choice for that moment.

I also love how Lantash wanted Sam to know that he didn't blame her for Martouf's death and didn't want her to either...but he knew her. He knew she felt responsible on some level, regardless of her logical mind telling her there was no other way...and I respect Lantash for freeing her like that.

I love the look in her eyes when Lantash sacrifices himself for her and the team...her sadness at knowing that this time, there is no escape for him. This time, they would indeed leave one of their own behind and there was nothing she could do about it. Amanda maintained the disciplined approach Sam would have at that moment without being cold. She played it with just the right amount of emotion and empathy and loss without dissolving into a puddle.

Just a great, GREAT episode and I'd love to see more of these kinds of moments for Sam in the future.

[Mandysg1]

So Last Stand was on tonight again.



Can everyone say WOW?

Amanda did such a stellar job with this performance...truly one of my favorites from her in the series.

We see her grappling with the fact that Elliott was snaked...thus having to relive particularly unpleasant memories and trying to sound positive about the whole thing.

I love how Sam takes care of Elliott and gives him a pep talk at first...but then tells him like it is. She never gives up but there's a moment where there's a flash of "man, this seems hopeless" on her face as she tires from moving the boulders and the room drains itself of the much needed oxygen, which is very rare indeed.

Then there's that moment when Elliott tells her that Lantash loved her as much as he loved Jolinar. It reminds me of what Martouf told her...I think it was in Tok'ra 1...that they love as one. I love that entire scene...how Sam responded to that moment and to the fact that Lantash truly loved her for who she was and not because she once hosted Jolinar. Maybe it was the director who suggested it, but having her face shadowed as she bowed her head during his confession of Lantash's feelings was just the right choice for that moment.

I also love how Lantash wanted Sam to know that he didn't blame her for Martouf's death and didn't want her to either...but he knew her. He knew she felt responsible on some level, regardless of her logical mind telling her there was no other way...and I respect Lantash for freeing her like that.

I love the look in her eyes when Lantash sacrifices himself for her and the team...her sadness at knowing that this time, there is no escape for him. This time, they would indeed leave one of their own behind and there was nothing she could do about it. Amanda maintained the disciplined approach Sam would have at that moment without being cold. She played it with just the right amount of emotion and empathy and loss without dissolving into a puddle.

Just a great, GREAT episode and I'd love to see more of these kinds of moments for Sam in the future.

Well if you're going to put it that way, you're going to make me cry
*sniff, sniff*

[binkpmmc]

I'm going to do something wildly inappropriate and speak for Skydiver. I BELIEVE she meant that the excuses and copouts were on the part of some TPTB that blame anything and everything under the sun for perceived lack of team cohesion (and perhaps some select fan groups as well) when good writing would have fixed the problem nicely.

If I'm wrong, feel free to smack me, Sky.

It's okay...I can take it...I've been smacked around a lot lately. Heck I'm starting to like it even!

Addressing the "excuses" angle that TPRTS always fall back on and use as copouts I have the following observation, and I have said this before but I recently read an article about Desperate Housewives and the fact that most people involved with that show, from cast to crew to Marc Cherry the EP and creator of the show (usually the No. 1 or 2 network show each week with 15+ MILLION viewers and oooodles of advertiising dollars) ADMIT that MISTAKES have been made in S2. This is my biggest problem with TPRTS on Stargate - they REFUSE to admit THEY made mistakes and they refuse to acknowledge any problems with chracters, writing, direction, arcs, etc. The cast and crew of one of the biggest networks shows on TV right now are mature enough and confident enough in their abilities to admit these things why can't cooper and his merry men? (It is the same thing I have said about people like JJ Abrams from Alias fame - in the past he too admitted mistakes with Alias' direction, characters, arc, etc., and his show was no slouch in the NETWORK ratings game either). If these guys get it I am not sure what the problem is with cooper and his cronies.

Back to DH - some of what was said in the article by cast and crew resonated because they are exact same issues many, many fans have had with Stargate SG1 (and SGA) the past few seasons:

"Season 2 was a letdown from the breakout success . . . " Same can and has been said about S9 from S8s success in the ratings.

"The cast got a little thick." uuuhhh S9 and S10 as examples. I harken back to cooper and others saying in the past that it is a 4 man team and writing for 5 or more would take away from the dynamic that is why Jonas had to go -- but even having a 4 man team in S9 seemed to be a bust and TPRTS couldn't handle it but when you add Lam and Landry you have a bigger mess and I fear for what will hapen with S10.

Re: the addition of the Applewhites (Alfre Woodards storyline): "Viewers were pretty vocal about what they liked and what they didn't - like brining in a new family with NO CONNECTION TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD." Change neighborhood to "SG1" and you have the biggest and loudest complaint about S9 -- mitchell, the contrived, hewo, leader, coming out of the blue with no real connection and no experience and all we get is a contrived backstory that doesn't fly (get it? he's a pilot - sorry lame I know) and we are told instead of shown and what we are shown is a very sorry excuse for an SGC officer never mind co-leader of the elite team.

Spoiler:

Seems that Cherry and others knew a bad thing when they saw it and, despite the story being one that was meant to be "pivotal to S2" the Applewhites, with an actress the caliber of Alfre Woodard, have been written out after only one season.

I can only hope TPRTS come to their senses the way people involved in seriously huge network TV shows do.

Terry Hatcher on Susan's arc in S2: "She hasn't had one". Change the names Susan to AT and Sam, MS and Daniel, or CJ and Teal'c and you have another one of the biggest, loudest complaints - the BIG 3 being relegated to the foils and the background and the wallpaper. Fans do not watch DH for the Applewhites and likewise many, many fans do not watch SG1 for mitchell or vala -- they have and do watch for Sam, Daniel and Teal'c - the team and the formula that worked for 8 years.

Hathcher again: "They've sort of thrown some things up against the wall and tried to see if they'd stick, and they haven't." HHmmmm sounds familar to what we have seen come out of bridge in S9. I recall reading this type of sentiment many times across forums with regard to the B@B.

Anyway, as I have said in the past I have a lot more respect for people in this business who are willing to admit mistakes and then acknowledge them and fix them. The respect level I have for the b@b has been falling for the past several seasons and it took a potentially deadly hit with S9.

A lot of what was in the article about DH and a lot of what the cast, crew said resonated and could have been written about Stargate - if TPRTS had the same confidence and abilities that the DH people do to admit mistakes have been made, that THEY have made the mistakes and acknowledge that they will fix them instead of always denying the show has taken a turn for the worse, instead of coming up with lame, cop-out excuses and instead of looking to drop responsibility at the feet of anything they can find except themselves - the people who make the show. Let's see Alfre Woodard versus Ben Browder -- no offense intended but I would do everything in my power to make a story with the likes of Alfre Woodard work before Ben Browder and the people at mega-hit DH were willing to let AW go so I would not even blink an eye if BB were to disappear from Stargate.

wow this got kind of long - sorry.

[majorsal]

Sam's military/command training has always been something she's grappled with in juxtaposition with her scientific (and human) side. That's part of what makes her character compelling to me. She doesn't always know whether she should make the military decision, or the human decision, or the scientific decision.

Following Jack around, she never really had to make many of those choices because he was in the leadership role anyway. When she was on her own (as in the aforementioned episode) and of course once she took her own command, she DID have to make those choices and she grappled with them. That made her all the more interesting (to me).

I read a piece of fanfiction recently (Rebecca Ratliff's Gates of War Series) where the author has Jack say something SO GREAT to Sam with respect to her learship role within SG-1. She had been discussing with him a decision she'd made. One that she felt she shouldn't have made, in hindsight. Because she was trying to be fair, and (in hindsight) she felt she should have been less fair and more calculating.

Jack (being Jack) says this to her:



I loved that, because it made ME think about all the ways Sam would have to be different than, well, Sam. How being a leader would necessarily change her, in the eyes of her friends as well as those under her command.

It's a neat topic to kick around, isn't it?

geek

oh, what season 9 could have been....


sam, daniel, teal'c, and mitchell, behind enemy lines and trying to get to the gate.


daniel: sam, we can't just sit here! mitchell's bleeding and--

sam: i know that, daniel! but we can't just run up to the gate, seeing as there are about a dozen jaffa standing at it.

daniel: but--

sam: what would you have us do, daniel? just walk up and say we want to go home?

daniel: of course not... i just think sitting here while he bleeds to death isn't getting us anywhere. sorry.

sam: i'm waiting for the opening.

daniel: what opening?

teal'c: when colonel carter sees it, danieljackson, you will be the first to know. judge her instincts.

daniel: i do, it's just....

mitchell: leave me behind, sam.

sam: oh, shut up. you know i'm not leaving any member of my team behind, so knock off that warrior crap. no offense, teal'c.

teal'c smiles and nods

sam: there!

daniel: sam?

sam points. 'right there, daniel. teal'c, you and daniel go to the tree line and i'll radio when i've got the charges set'.

daniel: sam? what's going on.

sam: just go with teal'c, daniel. teal'c?

teal'c: i'll explain your plan to daniel, colonel carter.

daniel: you will? when did 'you' hear it?

teal'c: i saw the opening, danieljackson.

sam laughs




i wanted a scene like this in season 9!! sam's smart and has been mentored by the best, so why oh why didn't they let her take off and soar!?!





sally

[binkpmmc]

oh, what season 9 could have been....


sam, daniel, teal'c, and mitchell, behind enemy lines and trying to get to the gate.


daniel: sam, we can't just sit here! mitchell's bleeding and--

sam: i know that, daniel! but we can't just run up to the gate, seeing as there are about a dozen jaffa standing at it.

daniel: but--

sam: what would you have us do, daniel? just walk up and say we want to go home?

daniel: of course not... i just think sitting here while he bleeds to death isn't getting us anywhere. sorry.

sam: i'm waiting for the opening.

daniel: what opening?

teal'c: when colonel carter sees it, danieljackson, you will be the first to know. judge her instincts.

daniel: i do, it's just....

mitchell: leave me behind, sam.

sam: oh, shut up. you know i'm not leaving any member of my team behind, so knock off that warrior crap. no offense, teal'c.

teal'c smiles and nods

sam: there!

daniel: sam?

sam points. 'right there, daniel. teal'c, you and daniel go to the tree line and i'll radio when i've got the charges set'.

daniel: sam? what's going on.

sam: just go with teal'c, daniel. teal'c?

teal'c: i'll explain your plan to daniel, colonel carter.

daniel: you will? when did 'you' hear it?

teal'c: i saw the opening, danieljackson.

sam laughs


i wanted a scene like this in season 9!! sam's smart and has been mentored by the best, so why oh why didn't they let her take off and soar!?!

sally

Good stuff Sally - can't green you right now. Have you sent your resume and some samples to the b@b - you do a right better job then they did with S9.

[ReganX]

Then there's that moment when Elliott tells her that Lantash loved her as much as he loved Jolinar. It reminds me of what Martouf told her...I think it was in Tok'ra 1...that they love as one. I love that entire scene...how Sam responded to that moment and to the fact that Lantash truly loved her for who she was and not because she once hosted Jolinar. Maybe it was the director who suggested it, but having her face shadowed as she bowed her head during his confession of Lantash's feelings was just the right choice for that moment.

I also love how Lantash wanted Sam to know that he didn't blame her for Martouf's death and didn't want her to either...but he knew her. He knew she felt responsible on some level, regardless of her logical mind telling her there was no other way...and I respect Lantash for freeing her like that.

I love the look in her eyes when Lantash sacrifices himself for her and the team...her sadness at knowing that this time, there is no escape for him. This time, they would indeed leave one of their own behind and there was nothing she could do about it. Amanda maintained the disciplined approach Sam would have at that moment without being cold. She played it with just the right amount of emotion and empathy and loss without dissolving into a puddle.

We never got to see much of Lantash, did we? Martouf seemed to be in the driver's seat most of the time. I loved his interaction with Sam in this episode.