Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[Mandysg1]

Wow, extreme Copy and Paste from somewhere Spazzy?

But yeah, I agree. What annoys me is all the crap handed out to female characters on how poorly they are written, yet the male characters who are equally as poorly written get off scot free. I really dont think the penis is that powerful

Yeah... Nope... There's no way to respond to that one. Actually, scratch that, scarimor, Mandy, Ooobs, suse or Sky will probably come up with something witty. Just wait for it.

Ok, like no pressure here

Hmmm? Will be back after I test a few theories....

Ok I'm back, that didn't take to long and AD is right, its not that powerful doesn't even provide balance...for the character that is

[Mandysg1]

Ah, okay. I thought of another one: Moebius, with Jack and Sam in the jumper and Daniel and Teal'c elsewhere... Or the great moment in Out of Mind where Sam tells Daniel to go with Makepeace because "he's wounded" and then goes back to take out the generator and rescue Jack. Um, right. Daniel's wounded, so he should go assult the gate with the others?

Sorry. I guess that was a bit of a rant. That just bugs me (and not even for ship reasons. That's just flawed reasoning in my opinion.)

Actually I agree with the assessment, Sam was going off by herself and Daniel with his wound would only slow her down, or perhaps interfere with what she would have to do, if she also had to protect him. If he stays with the group, there are more people to help protect him and get him to the gate.

We know it didn't happen that way, but given the situation before hand, I think it was the right call.

[Mandysg1]

I agree, these storylines worked to make Sam slightly more rounded. I don't think that being in a relationship actually challenged Sam's kick butt attitude either. She still went off on a possible suicide mission in New Order and the like. The only thing that got me with the Sam/Pete relationship that made absolutly no sense whatsoever was at the end of Affinity where at the 'crime scene' she not only accepted Pete's proposal but then followed up by kissing him.
Very unprofessional, and very contrary to the Sam that we know.

That is true, and I believe Amanda tried to tell the writers the same thing but was over ruled

[minigeek]

Actually I agree with the assessment, Sam was going off by herself and Daniel with his wound would only slow her down, or perhaps interfere with what she would have to do, if she also had to protect him. If he stays with the group, there are more people to help protect him and get him to the gate.

We know it didn't happen that way, but given the situation before hand, I think it was the right call.

I also agree, and not from a shipper POV, from a pragmatic one. Sam was not going to leave Jack behind (to die), she'd already decided to break orders and she wasn't going to implicate anyone else, so Daniel had the best chance of staying safe by being with the group that was going on (without her). There were more folks to protect him there, and lets face it - what would she have done had she gone with him anyway? She'd have just been one more body in that group. There were others there to help Daniel, but no one was going to help Jack. Daniel was going to be "OK", Jack would have died. I'd have made the same choice in her place. It was a team issue, and she made a call that I think is admirable there. Also showed her mettle.

[minigeek]

That is true, and I believe Amanda tried to tell the writers the same thing but was over ruled

Also one of the VERY rare times Amanda has ever spoken out about being in disagreement with the writing direction taken. She makes it a point to almost never do that - she's always supportive of the show's creative direction and its writing, almost to a fault. So you just can imagine how much she disagreed there, for her to have said what she did.

[golfbooy]

Originally Posted by minigeek
Also showed her metal.

Ooh, and it showed her mettle, too.

[ReganX]

At the end of the day, I don't really care WHY it didn't work. I just want them to fix it. I want my team back, I want my strong Sam Carter character to take charge again, and I could care less what the company line is for "why" I didn't get any of that last year. Far as I'm concerned, the "company" can sort it out amongst themselves and do whatever they have to do to make things right again. The only thing I have to say to them, is:

STOP LOLLYGAGGING AROUND AND
GIMME THE GOOD STUFF BACK, DAMMIT!
(Ya bunch of freakin' numpties! What are you SMOKING up there FCOL?!)

geeeek

I second that. I could forgive the Season Nine mess if they fix it for next season.

[Skydiver]

Actually I agree with the assessment, Sam was going off by herself and Daniel with his wound would only slow her down, or perhaps interfere with what she would have to do, if she also had to protect him. If he stays with the group, there are more people to help protect him and get him to the gate.

We know it didn't happen that way, but given the situation before hand, I think it was the right call.

i see it the same way

a) daniel was wounded and would slow her down
b) he was nice and 'safe' with the marines...any one of which could carry his tushie back through the gate if they had to, while sam couldn't
c) i don't know if she set out to get jack or not (although, more than once i've considered that she was willing to kill him rather than leave him as a host...and she didn't need daniel around to complicate/witness that)
d) she was going behind enemy lines, which was the duty of the military officer, not the civilian

[minigeek]

Ooh, and it showed her mettle, too.

Hey, that too!

(I never said I could spell !)

[ReganX]

Actually I agree with the assessment, Sam was going off by herself and Daniel with his wound would only slow her down, or perhaps interfere with what she would have to do, if she also had to protect him. If he stays with the group, there are more people to help protect him and get him to the gate.

We know it didn't happen that way, but given the situation before hand, I think it was the right call.

I agree. Sam had a better chance of getting back in and getting to Jack alone than she would if she had dragged Daniel along with her. It wouldn''t have done his injuries any good either.

[minigeek]

c) i don't know if she set out to get jack or not (although, more than once i've considered that she was willing to kill him rather than leave him as a host...and she didn't need daniel around to complicate/witness that)

It's funny, I never questioned that she was going back for him (to either save him or kill him, but I always thought the former). The first time I saw that episode, I never considered she might not have had that intention. So I'm pretty sure it was the intended implication the writers had going. Because I wasn't analyzing back then (as I do now), and it was my "average viewer" POV. That "don't leave anyone behind" schtick.

[golfbooy]

Hey, that too!

(I never said I could spell !)

I'm a small, sad person. I need to take my victories wherever I can get them. Sorry. Really, I'm working on it.

[astrogeologist]

Yep. And don't get me wrong: Wanting and needing companionship is an understandable desire. Different people have different goals in that regard, so I have no problem with Sam wanting that to any extent. She's human after all, and if that's where AT sees her heading in her mind, then I believe that's where the character is headed.

However, as AT has said, that's not all there is to the character.

It's when the "desires" become the whole of the person - or at least all we see for a period of time - that it becomes a problem. Because, though there are many fans who have both the experience with the show and the general discernment to know that that's not ALL Sam is about, there are people who are incapable of seeing or unwilling to see (or both) that there's so much more to her than that.

When the writers give us nothing but that, it's almost like it proves that very point. And it really is counterproductive when you take into account what Sam was meant to represent in the beginning of the series, and what Sam has become thanks to AT's hard work.

Over at scifi.com, on one of those lovely little feedback cum fanbase debates, where fans submit letters (there are about a dozen regarding SG-1 and why one group of fans is wrong/right/whatever), someone said that women are harder on themselves and each other than anyone else. I believe that same person also said that female characters shouldn't have to be pigeonholed into the role model category, when male characters are allowed free reign over all kinds of character molds. S/he was talking about the issues fans have with Vala.

I totally agree with the first assertion: When you look at those who don't like Sam, Vala, Elizabeth or Teyla, the dissenters are, I'd say, 75% (or more) female. Is this because there are more vocal female fans in this particular fanbase? Possibly. I dare say there are more vocal female fans in many of the popular, online fanbases today, but that's another story. The fact remains that women, by nature, are harder on themselves and on each other. We place impossible charges and responsibilities on the actors who are meant to represent us on television. And, for the ones who are meant to be great role models, we still expect them to meet some other criteria, so they don't seem "perfect."

In Sam's case, she has to make the right decisions, but not make them too often; show emotion, but not too much; show weaknesses, but not too much. She has to take the lead, but know her place; remain stoic, but not wooden.

And she's not alone.

We have to ask ourselves: Why are we putting substantially more pressure on female characters than on males?

I honestly think it's because male characters have always been a dime a dozen. It's their inherent expendability and interchangeability that perhaps means their place on the food chain isn't quite as at risk as a woman's, their worth is not in question. If you have to really search to find a good female character in a cast, and it looks like she's there to provide the demographic grabber and/or the love interest, that means there's at least 1000% more pressure on the actor who plays her to make that character count, to give her depth, to fight for the integrity of that character, so she can move beyond that creative rut.

Though more and more women are breaking out and somewhat making a name for kick-butt characters, there's still a huge discrepancy. Because I think there's always been that worry that a character with awesome potential will be relegated to "the love interest" again in some way - whether it's as submissive wallpaper or the sultry siren. Or, worse, everyone will just lump her in the "Raging Heifer" category.

In Sam's case, I don't think the ship makes her any less of a role model, to be honest. Like I said before, she's human. AT has mentioned the fallibility of the characters, the traits that make these characters more believable. It works for her, because she needs to essentially sell her character; and it helps us relate to the character and buy it, because she's not a super hero. She's an ordinary human doing extraordinary things. And I think we'd all like to relate to that in some small way.

Wow... and I mean...Wow, dancer!

[fishyone]

Oops I didn't see this post before I did my little rant just earlier. Although I think I did add to it... I wasn't happy with what happened in Out of Mind either (though I think that might have been Into the Fire?).

Oops. You're right, that was in Into the Fire. Sorry about that. Mixed up part one and part two...

[fishyone]

Be that as it may, it did break my poor little shipper heart (even though I don't ever expect my ship to be shown onscreen), and I still didn't like the way it was done...seemed almost like some sort of copout by the writers. Plus I still think that AU Jack came off as a jerk. Maybe he was supposed to come off that way...but that is how I saw him.

Again, this is all just my personal, extremely unpopular, opinion.

Not entirely unpopular, Jess. I agree with you. I really didn't like the way that it was done, either. I didn't like AU Jack's character. He was not really the Jack that I'd enjoyed watching for eight seasons. He seemed like someone else, and I didn't really respect AU Sam's character for being attracted to him. (And when I first saw Moebius, I was a s/j shipper. This is not ship talking here.)

But Amanda did act the AU Sam very well in my opinion. I like the geek walk she does.