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**JessM** · 24 May 2006, 04:43 AM

Originally posted by KatG

*grabs a fan*

Oh yeah. Definitely hot in here. And the best part about it, is the kiss just keeps going and going and going and going and....

Whew!

Geez, isn't Amanda a lucky, lucky woman?

Yeppers, Amanda is a lucky, lucky woman!

Case in point...

(sorry, I had to do it ...please don't hate me)

**L.A. Doyle** · 24 May 2006, 04:44 AM

I've never seen the ship(w/Jack) as dividing the team. Pete and the writer's(esp. in S9) do a better job of that. We also have to remember that the guys have been shipped quite a few times as well, though not as much as poor Sam, the only woman.

Though they did focus a bit on Sam's personal life in the 8th season, at least Petey-boy didn't show up more than he did.

**ChevronSeven** · 24 May 2006, 04:47 AM

Originally posted by JessM

Thanks, I couldn't think of any eps offhand that would support that notion, but I agree with you. Then again I guess I'm just seeing things differently, too. Oh, and I have one to add... I guess this doesn't really count, but I see it in Moebius Part 2 also, ending at the lake. And

Spoiler:

But I must cite that one as well. I think it would have been so much better to end Threads and Moebius with all of them at the lake together, sitting with fishing poles, maybe Daniel making a snarky comment about fishing, prompting a laugh from Sam and some cute little defensive reply from Jack.

But, again, as Dennis Miller says, "That's only my opinion, of course I could be wrong."

Spoiler:

**KatG** · 24 May 2006, 04:51 AM

Originally posted by Beakymoose

So, just out of curiousity, who do all of you ship for, if you ship, that is? I started out S/J and have been converted by fishyone to S/D.

At the start of S1 I definitely saw potential for S/D and J/J, but by the end of S1 I was starting to have leaning towards S/Jack, which became stronger as seasons passed. So, I'm definitely in the Sam/Jack camp, but will read Sam shipped with almost anyone if it's written well.

**scarimor** · 24 May 2006, 04:55 AM

Originally posted by JessM

(sorry, I had to do it ...please don't hate me)

You know, I'm starting to appreciate these Sam/Daniel pics rather more than a Sam/Janet-slasher like me should. How very worrying!

**JessM** · 24 May 2006, 05:27 AM

Originally posted by ChevronSeven

Spoiler:

Be that as it may, it did break my poor little shipper heart (even though I don't ever expect my ship to be shown onscreen), and I still didn't like the way it was done...seemed almost like some sort of copout by the writers. Plus I still think that AU Jack came off as a jerk. Maybe he was supposed to come off that way...but that is how I saw him.

Again, this is all just my personal, extremely unpopular, opinion.

**JessM** · 24 May 2006, 05:29 AM

Originally posted by scarimor

You know, I'm starting to appreciate these Sam/Daniel pics rather more than a Sam/Janet-slasher like me should. How very worrying!

Heehee... oops, sorry about that!

**scarimor** · 24 May 2006, 05:36 AM

Originally posted by JessM

Be that as it may, it did break my poor little shipper heart (even though I don't ever expect my ship to be shown onscreen), and I still didn't like the way it was done...seemed almost like some sort of copout by the writers. Plus I still think that AU Jack came off as a jerk. Maybe he was supposed to come off that way...but that is how I saw him.

Again, this is all just my personal, extremely unpopular, opinion.

Spoiler:

**Agent_Dark** · 24 May 2006, 06:20 AM

Originally posted by scarimor

Spoiler:

**minigeek** · 24 May 2006, 06:24 AM

Originally posted by scarimor

Spoiler:

**KatG** · 24 May 2006, 06:47 AM

Originally posted by Mandysg1

Sky,Sky,Sky, I am getting tired of having to fix everyone's typos. This is the last time

After this you're on your own its:
'fade to Jack' FCOL

ROFL. Wanted to green you for that, but I can't.

**ForeverSg1** · 24 May 2006, 07:08 AM

Originally posted by fishyone

Yeah, I agree with the whole ship thing. I have to admit that's one of the things I don't like about the way the writers have written Sam's character more recently (season 7/8). She became a woman looking for a boyfriend rather than a talented, capable scientist and soldier. Sam is not a woman that needs a guy to feel good about herself. And I'm perfectly happy not seeing my ship on screen (because I don't trust the writers). I'd much rather the show be ship-free and go back to being about a team. Ship stuff seemed to stop this... The team seemed to always be being broken up... split in twos...and the nice dynamic was lost. It may just be me, but it drives me crazy when they split it like that (seems like Daniel's always stuck with Teal'c), and the friendships that I loved so much are gone.

I hope season 10 can bring this back, but I'm a pessimist by nature.

Well unfortunately I don't think we're going to get what we want, because S9 didn't have any S/J ship and the team was still separated most of the time with little or no team bonding. I know in the past people have blamed the Sam/Jack issues for the lack of team moments, but I really think the writers either tired of writing them or forgot how to, because they certainly didn't have any reason not to write more with Jack gone and yet we still got nothing.

In my opinion Sam has unfortunately been choosen to be the character for whom everyone drools over and wishes to be with so now instead of having to watch the awkward moments between Sam and Jack, we will be forced into watch the awkward moments between Sam/Barrett, Sam/Orlin, Sam/Martouf or Sam/EvilManNumberFour.

I adore Jack, he is the reason I started watching Stargate; and I love Sam, she's the reason I still watch. I admit I enjoyed watching the chemistry between AT/RDA, but since RCC has taken over as showrunner AT/Sam's main contribution to the team has become more angsty and relationship driven. If you think about it, little has been written regarding Sam in the past three seasons that didn't revolve around a man.

In S7, we were given Avenger 2.0 and Jay's infatuation with Sam. Grace deals with Sam deciding if she wants to give up on the idea of being with Jack. In Chimera, Sam gets a boyfriend. In S8 New Order, Sam gets kidnapped by a guy who is so smitten with her that he replicates her. In Affinity, Sam's boyfriend propose. In Threads, Sam finally ends her relationship with Pete. Then in S9, with RDA off the show, we were told there would be no ship so I thought to myself "Ok, finally we are going to see Sam totally in her element...confident and ready to kick ass." Which she was for the most part, but what big Sam storylines did we get in S9? In ExDM, we got to see Sam deal with Barrett's interogation of her personal life. In FH1 & 2 we see Sam teased by her boss and co-worker regarding a relationship she supposedly had with Orlin's and watch the awkward scenes between her and Orlin. In Ripple Effect, did we get to see the beautifully touching moments between Sam and Janet? No. Instead we get to see Sam discuss who she was involved with in alternate realties and forced to watch yet another awkward moment between Sam/Martouf.

I'm really beginning to lose all hope that the writers can still think of Sam as more than just someone who is enticing to men. Yes, she's a kickass soldier and a brilliant scientist and when the storyline doesn't involve Sam specifically AT manages to portray Sam in a way that always shows her in a positive light, but when an episode revolves around Sam, the writers tend to forget about all those wonderful qualities I love about Sam and put her in situations that are angsty and awkward where she has to deal with someone who likes her.

It's not that I don't like ship or that I hate the idea of Sam being happy. I just know there are so many more wonderful layers of Sam that I would really love to explore and I hate the fact that the writers can't seem to dig past the ship issues in order to find them.

**Skydiver** · 24 May 2006, 09:23 AM

i think blaming sam and jack for a lack of 'team' was a copout for some. especially the few to whom 'team' = 'all daniel all the time'

it was easy to blame sam and jack...just like i think that TPTB started to blame rda's lessened schedule for a lack of team interaction. cause look at s9, what do we have? a new star who tptb praise for being there from duck to dawn and what kind of 'team' stuff do we have??????

little to none. certainly no more than we had in years previous. In fact, in the opinion of some, s6, which had a lessened rda presence had more of a 'team' feel to it than any season since

it's excuses adn copouts. blame anything you can to avoid the fact that you (as in the writers) seem to have lost your touch when it comes to writing things the 'good old fashioned' way

**ReganX** · 24 May 2006, 09:37 AM

Originally posted by Skydiver

i think blaming sam and jack for a lack of 'team' was a copout for some. especially the few to whom 'team' = 'all daniel all the time'

it was easy to blame sam and jack...just like i think that TPTB started to blame rda's lessened schedule for a lack of team interaction. cause look at s9, what do we have? a new star who tptb praise for being there from duck to dawn and what kind of 'team' stuff do we have??????

little to none. certainly no more than we had in years previous. In fact, in the opinion of some, s6, which had a lessened rda presence had more of a 'team' feel to it than any season since

it's excuses adn copouts. blame anything you can to avoid the fact that you (as in the writers) seem to have lost your touch when it comes to writing things the 'good old fashioned' way

If TPTB aren't willing to let them be a team and to write them as a team - as opposed to Marvellous Mitchell and his back-up singers - then it doesn't matter if Ben Browder never leaves the set, they won't have team interaction.

If they write the team together, allow Sam, Daniel and Teal'c to work and interact together instead of just with Mitchell, they can trust the actors to take care of the rest.

**minigeek** · 24 May 2006, 09:38 AM

I really think you've hit the nail on the head there, Sky. From my perspective also, the chemistry between the actors (all of them) is a paramount consideration (or it should be) for the writing team. Especially when you have new blood in the mix. You have to allow for it and play with it properly, or you end up with a lot of stilted crud, holes where none should be, and a sense of "discomfort" that translates onto the screen no matter how many explosions you write in to mask it out.

Season nine didn't gel for me because I went into it hoping to see the team be - a team - and I had absolutely zero negative pre-disposition towards Ben or Claudia. But (and I say this with much respect to ALL the actors), not one of them this year had more than a few scant seconds of opportunity to really PLAY, outside the box. That really impacted the believability of the new characters, in addition to impacting the way the old-guard fit into the new dynamic. They just ... didn't.

Excuses are just that ... excuses. At the end of the day, I don't really care WHY it didn't work. I just want them to fix it. I want my team back, I want my strong Sam Carter character to take charge again, and I could care less what the company line is for "why" I didn't get any of that last year. Far as I'm concerned, the "company" can sort it out amongst themselves and do whatever they have to do to make things right again. The only thing I have to say to them, is:

STOP LOLLYGAGGING AROUND AND
GIMME THE GOOD STUFF BACK, DAMMIT!
(Ya bunch of freakin' numpties! What are you SMOKING up there FCOL?!)

geeeek

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