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    Originally posted by minigeek
    Not "out there in general" perhaps, but here? In Samanda? You bet your bootie it has. How many readers or authors of S/J stories do NOT feel the least bit reticent and inspired to overqualify when they post a rec to their (or anyone elses' S/J) fic HERE in Samanda? Quite a few, I'd wager. I wasn't referring to the Sam/Jack lists out there. I was referring to here.

    Good fic writers ARE considering that. Take Denise and Mandy for example, who both just admitted it's a consideration for them.

    And here in Samanda, many among that group often feel reticent to admit that fact without extensive overqualification.
    As I already explained to NC in PM, the ship warning information doesn't bother me a bit. It can and should stay there. I never intended for it to come off. What I'd like to see is the person doing the warning/caveat to not also feel embarassed (HERE) for even recommending a S/J fic to begin with. The warning itself can stay, it's not about that, it's about the apology that underlies it. And it DOES exist in many cases. Maybe not all cases, but many I've seen here. Non ship authors and/or readers generaly don't do a lot of ship fic recommendations, so non ship authors and/or readers wouldn't feel that reticence because they tend not to even go there to begin with.

    Often enough that I think it's tangible and worthy of address.

    mg
    Okay, so why do you feel apologetic about admitting to being a S/J shipper and making S/J fic recs on this thread? What is it that the rest of us (anti-shippers, I suppose) are doing on the list that makes you feel this way?

    How can we make you feel more comfortable without turning this thread into the S/J ship annex?

    My LJ

    Comment


      Originally posted by scarimor
      When I see a fic rec like ".. there's Jack/Sam ship, but... etc etc etc" - the "but" usually means "but it's not the focus of the story" or "but it's no more than you'd see in the show" or something like that. Which, imo, isn't the reccer apologising for the ship content, rather reassuring non-ship readers that they might like to give it a try. Which has worked for me a few times.

      I've seen similar recc'ed for a couple of my Sam/Janets - e.g. "it's femslash but it's an action/adventure and the slashy bit is just one paragraph..." etc. Taken one way, it sounds like the reccer is apologising for it, when in fact they're just qualifying with more information.
      And mini is right, in a sense, that the "but" is acknowledging that prejudices do exist. If they didn't there would be no need for the qualifying statement.

      On the other hand, I think it's possible to recognize that differences in taste exist without being "apologetic" for them, or agreeing with the bias in the first place. Just because I acknowledge that most readers don't enjoy femslash stories doesn't mean that I don't like them personally.

      My LJ

      Comment


        Originally posted by JuliaR
        You asked, you pleaded. We were listening.

        Richard Dean Anderson and Amanda Tapping together. A very special event to be held early 2007. It’s no longer a dream.

        The Gabit website will be updated within the next few weeks with more information.

        We told you some things in life were worth waiting for.

        The G4
        Gabit Events
        Holy Hannah ... the Eagle has landed!!

        Congrats to Gabit4 for landing the big one - don't know how they did it, possibly selling off their firstborn children ... but this is going to be a winner! RDA actually committing to a con, alongside his favorite 2IC ... so exciting!

        Start saving your American $$, folks, and hoping for a fair exchange rate in 2007!

        Comment


          Originally posted by ChopinGal
          Holy Hannah ... the Eagle has landed!!

          Congrats to Gabit4 for landing the big one - don't know how they did it, possibly selling off their firstborn children ... but this is going to be a winner! RDA actually committing to a con, alongside his favorite 2IC ... so exciting!

          Start saving your American $$, folks, and hoping for a fair exchange rate in 2007!
          I'm afraid I'm going to be in debt after November. Not any chance of me making it, I'm afraid.

          But, yes, congrats to GABIT for managing it!

          My LJ

          Comment


            Originally posted by Strix varia
            I guess we'll just have to disagree on that. And I hope you'll forgive me in the future when I continue to qualify my fic recs with "S/J, but" comments when I feel they're warranted.
            Sure. But I'll still wish you didn't feel the need to believe Sam/Jack is inherantly bad enough that it needs extra (over) qualifying.
            Last edited by minigeek; 12 May 2006, 10:06 AM.

            Live On Stage in Toronto - August 8,9,10 2008
            ~all proceeds to benefit charity~

            Comment


              Originally posted by Strix varia
              On the other hand, I think it's possible to recognize that differences in taste exist without being "apologetic" for them, or agreeing with the bias in the first place. Just because I acknowledge that most readers don't enjoy femslash stories doesn't mean that I don't like them personally.
              Yes. And I don't know that anything can be "done" by any one person. It would involve a shift in point of view, I suppose, primarily among shippers themselves - to not give in to the impluse to feel peer-pressured into reticence (here) about expressing an enjoying that kind of story (Sally excluded <GRIN>).

              I see a specific trend here, and I'm pointing out. What we'll do (or not do) with it, I can't begin to anticipate.

              But I AM getting private rep and PM comments this afternoon which look like this:

              Just to let you know you're not alone with your sentiments.
              and this:

              I couldn't rep you, so I wanted to lend you support via PM. I agree with you that any S/J is treated as needing qualification to be acceptable. {snip} Virtually all references to S/J cast it as something trite and somehow immature. {snip} Even if nothing changes, thanks for bringing up this point.
              These are active SAMANDANS. They're not lurkers. So... apparently, the reticence is alive and well, and the arguments (largely coming from non shippers I see ) are valid, however if my point is that a segment of this group feels this way and I'm the only one (shall we say not reticent) to post about it, my POV will, undoubtedly, be swallowed by the ensuing onslaught of the people who don't feel reticent - because well, they DON'T feel reticent, so they're posting.

              Make sense? Gimme some credit here before you dismiss me off hand. Maybe I'm the only one crazy enough to stick my head out and risk it getting blown off. Fact is, I'm trying to champion a pov from a group of people who (by definition) are too shy, worried, intimidated or otherwise unwilling to post their feelings on this matter publicly HERE (in this particular thread). So I guess I am trapped in a catch 22. But I'm certainly not whistling dixie (as well as I may whistle it!).

              minigeek
              Last edited by minigeek; 12 May 2006, 10:14 AM.

              Live On Stage in Toronto - August 8,9,10 2008
              ~all proceeds to benefit charity~

              Comment


                Originally posted by Deejay435
                If I can just go OT for a bit here.

                I saw my doctor today-got the resutls of my most recent CT scan. The CT scans, since Jan, have shown very small shadows where my tumors had been, with no size changes at all. THey could have been, per the doc, scar tissue or damaged tissue from the tumor-with no real tumor there.

                Today's results? There is nothing at all on the CT scans!

                Doc says that means I am in "Durable Remission".

                I'm so happy I could cry.
                so glad to hear of good news

                avatar and sig by flidget

                Comment


                  Originally posted by JuliaR
                  You asked, you pleaded. We were listening.

                  Richard Dean Anderson and Amanda Tapping together. A very special event to be held early 2007. It’s no longer a dream.

                  The Gabit website will be updated within the next few weeks with more information.

                  We told you some things in life were worth waiting for.

                  The G4
                  Gabit Events
                  Oh I am so there ... could we have more info please such as date, time, and cost

                  avatar and sig by flidget

                  Comment


                    Julia, is this to be a CON event or is it to be classified as some other variety of special event? Can you tell us that much?

                    Live On Stage in Toronto - August 8,9,10 2008
                    ~all proceeds to benefit charity~

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by minigeek
                      Julia, is this to be a CON event or is it to be classified as some other variety of special event? Can you tell us that much?
                      Sorry people. All information about the event will be released within the next few weeks. What I will say is that this is an amazingly special kind of event. We are very proud to have been approached to do it.

                      Julia
                      G4
                      To influence the quality of another's day. That is the essence of life.sigpic

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by JuliaR
                        Sorry people. All information about the event will be released within the next few weeks. What I will say is that this is an amazingly special kind of event. We are very proud to have been approached to do it.

                        Julia
                        G4
                        FEW WEEKS?! LOL - ahhh!

                        Well I'll look very forward to it, and if I can afford it, I will SO be there, too. Hey, what's two trips to the UK in two months anyway? Pfft, pocket change!

                        Live On Stage in Toronto - August 8,9,10 2008
                        ~all proceeds to benefit charity~

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Strix varia
                          And mini is right, in a sense, that the "but" is acknowledging that prejudices do exist. If they didn't there would be no need for the qualifying statement.
                          I don't believe we're talking about prejudices here, we're talking about tastes in fiction, surely? I'm not prejudiced against horror fiction - I don't like it. I know I don't like it because I've read it (several times) and it does nothing for me. I don't prejudge a horror novel, I know what it's broadly going to be about on the basis that it's marketed as being in the horror genre. That is once function of genre, after all.

                          If I'm thinking about whether a supernatural thriller is something I want to buy/invest time in reading, a note from a reviewer that it has elements that fall into the horror genre is helpful - a) to inform me that's the case, and b) to either warn me to give it a miss or persuade me that the horror element is minimal and won't spoil my enjoyment of the supernatural thriller.

                          On the other hand, I think it's possible to recognize that differences in taste exist without being "apologetic" for them, or agreeing with the bias in the first place. Just because I acknowledge that most readers don't enjoy femslash stories doesn't mean that I don't like them personally.
                          [bold mine] Yes, it's taste. And information pertinent to taste is not an apology for that taste.

                          scarimor

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by scarimor
                            If I'm thinking about whether a supernatural thriller is something I want to buy/invest time in reading, a note from a reviewer that it has elements that fall into the horror genre is helpful - a) to inform me that's the case, and b) to either warn me to give it a miss or persuade me that the horror element is minimal and won't spoil my enjoyment of the supernatural thriller.
                            I completely agree!

                            [bold mine] Yes, it's taste. And information pertinent to taste is not an apology for that taste.
                            Unless it also contains an apology for that taste, explicit or implied.

                            -

                            Live On Stage in Toronto - August 8,9,10 2008
                            ~all proceeds to benefit charity~

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Deejay435
                              If I can just go OT for a bit here.

                              I saw my doctor today-got the resutls of my most recent CT scan. The CT scans, since Jan, have shown very small shadows where my tumors had been, with no size changes at all. THey could have been, per the doc, scar tissue or damaged tissue from the tumor-with no real tumor there.

                              Today's results? There is nothing at all on the CT scans!

                              Doc says that means I am in "Durable Remission".

                              I'm so happy I could cry.
                              Oh Deejay. That's fantastic. And definitely worth going off topic for.
                              sigpic

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by minigeek
                                Yes. And I don't know that anything can be "done" by any one person. It would involve a shift in point of view, I suppose, primarily among shippers themselves - to not give in to the impluse to feel peer-pressured into reticence (here) about expressing an enjoying that kind of story (Sally excluded <GRIN>).

                                I see a specific trend here, and I'm pointing out. What we'll do (or not do) with it, I can't begin to anticipate.

                                But I AM getting private rep and PM comments this afternoon which look like this:



                                and this:



                                These are active SAMANDANS. They're not lurkers. So... apparently, the reticence is alive and well, and the arguments (largely coming from non shippers I see ) are valid, however if my point is that a segment of this group feels this way and I'm the only one (shall we say not reticent) to post about it, my POV will, undoubtedly, be swallowed by the ensuing onslaught of the people who don't feel reticent - because well, they DON'T feel reticent, so they're posting.

                                Make sense? Gimme some credit here before you dismiss me off hand. Maybe I'm the only one crazy enough to stick my head out and risk it getting blown off. Fact is, I'm trying to champion a pov from a group of people who (by definition) are too shy, worried, intimidated or otherwise unwilling to post their feelings on this matter publicly HERE (in this particular thread). So I guess I am trapped in a catch 22. But I'm certainly not whistling dixie (as well as I may whistle it!).

                                minigeek
                                Well mini, your post certainly did get me thinking (I know hard to believe that happens ) Whereas I don't really feel the need to apolagize for a fic rec, I do feel the need to categorize a fic Which beleive me is a hard thing to do. When I'm writing a story, I just write it how I want it. Then when it comes time to post it, there is the pressure to categorize it, which sometimes is even harder than writing the fic, trying to figure out where it belongs When I wrote my last fic, From the Darkness of the Abyss, it did take me a while to figure out where it belonged. It did show Jack's dark side, but its a side of him we knew existed, and there was a reason for it coming to the surface. There was torture, but (see there's that word again) I didn't feel it was more than what we've seen on the show. I mean look at how many times poor Teal'c has been tortured only this time its Sam, so does that mean it needs a special warning or rating Okay so on the show they don't actually show Sam being tortured but the indications are there ( Emancipation, Off the Grid) and in fanfics we can fill in the gaps that show doesn't want to show.

                                So what was my point again Oh yeah, don't worry about sticking your head out mini, I think you're safe here, I don't think anyone here is going to try to chop it off (well maybe except for one )
                                sigpic

                                my fanfic

                                Comment

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